Buick LaCrosse

theo2709 · February 2004

VW did pretty lousy in the initial quality study back in May: http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003028bfull.gif

But they did even worse in the long-term dependability study in July: http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003050bfull.gif

Right in between Isuzu and Suzuki, with Daewoo and Hyundai really close by.

tomcat630 · February 2004

The only awards VW has won are for their trendy commercials. (sarcasm)

1487 · February 2004

VWs sales are down right here in America due to their stale product lineup. Buick and VW are evry similar in terms of lack of new cars and both have suffered declining sales. I don't respect places like Edmunds because they constantly rant about the quality of domestic models (often with no proof) and praise VWs in spite of their below average quality. Edmunds, and most of the automotive press, has decided that high quality is measured by the quality of the interior. Nice interiors are a plus, but they have no bearing on the reliability of a make or model. Most, if not all, of GM's brands are more reliable than VWs, but you arent going to find too many GM models on edmunds most wanted list. The Toureg is being praised left and right by MT, Motorweek and others but we have no idea how its going to hold up over time.

Kirstie_H · February 2004

aren't the subject here. The clue is in the discussion title

b4z · February 2004

I would consider a LaCrosse.
American cars still have character.
I drove a Accord V6 30 minutes before I drove the Intrigue. I bought the Intrigue.
It just had something that the Accord didn't. The Accord was almost too perfect. No soul.

Looking forward to driving a lacrosse to see how the CTS motor translates to FWD.

The lack of a 5/6 speed is a valid criticism.

My Intrigue had a huge hole in acceleration when it shifted into 2 nd gear.
The DOHC motor was weaker in torque at lower rpms than a pushrod so acceleration would fall off and not build again until over 3500 rpms.

I am hoping that the VVT motor will ameliorate that lack of torque, but a 5/6 speed with closer ratios would help even more.

dan165 · February 2004

As sad as the death of Olds is (we have an 02 Bravada), I would rather see GM use it's resources on fewer cars and build / market them well than spread out too much on 5 more models and another brand. That said, it seems to me that killing Buick made more sense than killing a more modern line up like Oldsmobile.

What is done is done, GM must move on and re-build Buick now.

gweilo · February 2004

Is it really true that the Lacrosse's rear seat doesn't fold down?

badgerfan · February 2004

I don't know, haven't found any pictures posted anywhere that show the rear seat.

If it does not have fold down seats, that is a fairly major oversight, given the intense competition in this segment.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, as we have a minivan in the family, so I have only used the fold down seat option two or three times in the four years I have owned my Taurus, but it could be important to many, even if they truthfully don't use the feature much.

With the stiff competition out there, every manufacturer really needs to sweat the details, or risk losing market share.

joey2brix · February 2004

The GP has a 60/40 split rear. Same car right?
But knowing GM........

rcf8000 · February 2004

According to what I've seen, the LaCrosse doesn't have memory seats either. The 500 does. The Avalon does. Another unfortunate omission.

rctennis3811 · February 2004

So wait...the LaCrosse doesn't have...

-memory seats
-no 60/40 split rear seat
-no navigation--not even as an option
-no standard side-curtains, but they are available/standard on the higher model

Geez GM, you come out with a pretty decent looking car that looks like it could sell, but you skimp on the features!!! Grr...that's why I'm so mad with GM right now..

jchan2 · February 2004

we can always hope for a LaCrosse Ultra- one with everything that's above, plus maybe a five speed TipTronic automatic.

rctennis3811 · February 2004

We can hope, but like the Rendezvous, GM will only introduce one a couple of years later, giving the competition to catch up and maybe even beat them. The problem with GM is that they do too little, too late.

jchan2 · February 2004

and that gives time for Lexus to add some stuff to the ES330. (the LaCrosse's competitor)

rctennis3811 · February 2004

Exactly!

rcf8000 · February 2004

Another thing the LaCrosse lacks is 8 way power seats. Even a Camry has that.

rctennis3811 · February 2004

No 8-way!?! OMFgoodness!

alpha01 · February 2004

Sorry, I dont see how the 33K-40K ES330 is a competitor to this car, which is replacing the pedestrian Century/Regal, especially if this car starts in the 22-23K range as expected. I'm think competitors are going to be the 500/Montego, Avalon, 300 Touring & Limited, the Amanti, the XG, the Maxima, etc.

~alpha

theo2709 · February 2004

Good point. The next LeSabre will be priced in ES territory, but it will still be a FWD full-size.

vcjumper · February 2004

ES330 competitor? Umm yeah and the ES330 is an S Class competitor.

rctennis3811 · February 2004

Believe it or not but Lutz says Buick will compete with Lexus vehicles, meaning that the LaCrosse will compete with the ES330 but at a lower price. They did set Lexus as their benchmark you know.

dan165 · February 2004

I saw an Allure today.. nice but nothing dramatic. I prefer my Grand Prix even though I'm an older guy.

I think it will sell though, interior is nice.

babeshah · February 2004

I guess since the Lacrosse is missing some PRIME featues in this segment such as 1. Navagation System 2. Memory Seats, the only 2 I can think of.

The price of Lacrosse I think for the CXS model equipped should be at about ~$28,000??

Is that too low??

6thbeatle · February 2004

i hope buick brings back a beautiful-looking riviera. what a great name for a luxury coupe. now if they can only make it sporty too, they can get michelle wie to become a co-spokesperson with tiger woods and together they can reach a whole new generation of potential buyers.

rcf8000 · February 2004

They may want to wait until michelle is old enough to drive!

6thbeatle · February 2004

yeah, that's true. she can only drive about 300 yards right now. :P

jchan2 · February 2004

Lutz did state that the Buick brand would target Lexus, and the LaCrosse/Allure is closer to the ES330 than the much larger LeSebre.

a_l_hubcaps · February 2004

jchan-

What Lutz said was that Buick would emulate Lexus at a lower price point. I don't expect to see Buicks going as far upmarket pricewise as Lexus...that would encroach on Cadillac, which is just beginning to gain a serious foothold against the Japanese luxury brands. Furthermore, Buick has a very loyal base of buyers who like what it traditionally has to offer. The LeSabre sells quite well considering that it's often perceived as outdated. The way they do this is by offering a nice, reliable highway-cruiser type car at a much lower price than an actual Lexus. I hope (though I'm not confident) that the people at GM understand this and don't try to push Buick too far in a different direction. Otherwise, they might pull another Oldsmobile, which would be unfortunate.

-Andrew L

6thbeatle · February 2004

our family has a 2001 buick le sabre, and i can tell you that it's been a very comfortable, strong and reliable car so far (knock on wood).
because of this positive experience, i would definitely consider a lacrosse for myself, even though i'm not that old. well, relatively speaking! ha ha!

if the lacrosse is priced around the same as a grand prix, accord, and camry, i think it would be a top choice on my list along with the nissan altima V6 and the mazda6 wagon. for more money, i would consider the legacy GT wagon and the dodge magnum with AWD.

i'm really glad that carmakers are starting to build more practical, comfy, yet sporty vehicles. don't you think a sportswagon fits the bill perfectly? i sure do.

jchan2 · February 2004

is that the LaCrosse is the closest in size and features (at least on the CXS, anyways) to the Lexus ES330 than any other car in the Lexus portfolio.

joey2brix · February 2004

By the latest sales figures, that loyalty base must be dying of old age. Foolish for Lutz to mention Buick in the same sentence with Lexus.
You're right on one thing: Where's the sports wagon? (I think you need a domestic, not just the Saab 9-5 wagon) The Centime was a hot looking crossover and a killer replacement for the ugly duckling RDV. But GM's dragging it's heels again, nothings been approved for production. More lost market share.

dan165 · February 2004

Joey, I think the Rendezvous is a very nice looking rig. With the 3.6L it's a very decent ride and given sales are booming, I don't think many would agree it's an "ugly duckling".

Lexus vs Buick may not really go hand in hand but Buick Allure does look like a competitive car and really that's what is more important.

6thbeatle · February 2004

i really dislike the styling design on the buick rendezvous and the BMW 7 series where there are amber "eyebrows" above the front headlights. they look stupid, like groucho marx glasses, you know, those plastic novelty eyeglasses with the black bushy moustache and eyebrows attached to them?

if buick and bmw want to keep this lighting design, they should at least make them clear so they don't stick out. again, the face-- eyes(headlights), mouth(grille) and expression on a vehicle is very important to me. i don't want to drive a car that looks goofy or inspipid or too smiley.

jchan2 · February 2004

looks fine to me, the 7-series (and 5-series) look a bit overdone to me.

rsurwilo · February 2004

Has anyone seen whether the LaCrosse will be offered with the supercharged version of the 3.8L V6?

bretaa · February 2004

From the always interesting Paul Lienert:

http://www.globalauto.net/clipsheet.cfm?article_id=1677&today- =02/16/04&mode=display&brand_id=3

- Bret

rsurwilo · February 2004

Has anyone seen whether the LaCrosse will be offered with the supercharged version of the 3.8L V6?

joey2brix · February 2004

Yea, GM and DC have dumped a division, Mercury realy has to go. They already have Lincoln just selling rebadged SUV's with more chrome and leather for added dollars. By the way, does Lincoln even sell the LS anymore? I havn't seen one on the road in a over a year. The Buick remarks are right on. They better push up that development cycle.

rsurwilo: Seems pointless if the car's getting the Caddy 3.6L option which blows the doors off the supercharger strapped to the washing machine 3.8L. Why would you want that old piece of junk?

1487 · February 2004

It was not silly for Lutz to mention Lexus, he was trying to point out that GM is serious about upgrading Buick. As someone already said, Buick is not going to go into the top pricing areas that Lexus exists in right now, but they will offer similar luxury. The LaCrosse could be considered a competitor for a base model ES330, but that won't be its main competition. The 500, Montego and Camry are much more likely. The Ford cars are considerably bigger, but the LAcrosse will undoubtedly outperform both of them.

johnclineii · February 2004

...for about a year, then Ford will introduce bigger engines for the Five Hundred/Montego. What will Lutz do then?

wsag26 · February 2004

At least Mr. Lienert can tell the truth, unlike GM and Ford aren't. I mean, the sales are going down and we know that older people will be attracted by Buick, not like its a bad thing. Buick was a great brand during the 60's and 70's but then there is a 'nameplate' issue. If you have virtually let the older people grasp your market, and now you want to go to the younger market, where rich-enough people are buying Lexus', Acuras, BMW's, and Benz's, where do you think you're going to stand. I've asked quite a few people and they think this:

"Buick sounds too old....but Lexus sounds new...plus Buick has ugly cars...I hate that grille thing...why do they always do that?"

And it isn't only against Buick, Mercury is my favorite to pounce on, mostly because it never made sense. As I've most likely said in different posts, Mercury is in a weird market. Its the upscale Ford, downscale Lincoln kind of thing. When most of the models will start at high prices for virtually the same vehicle, they are said to have their own distinctive features, although most of the vehicles look the same, and perform the same.

This is just to say that Mercury & Buick made a big mistake during the 80's and 90's. Chrysler is another one who cannot make up their mind. Here is what I want it to be like:

GM
Saturn-entry-level
Chevrolet-middle of the road tough
Pontiac- middle of the road performance savvy
Buick-gone
Olds-gone(even though I used to like Olds)
Cadillac- luxury

Ford
Ford- entry-level-entry-level luxury
Mercury-gone
Lincoln-luxury
Volvo-luxury
Land Rover- luxury
Jaguar-luxury
Mazda-entry-level-entry-level luxury

Chrysler
Jeep- Truck
Dodge- entry-level to entry-level luxury
Chrysler- entry-level luxury

If it turns out this way, we might be seeing a sudden increase in sales.

jchan2 · February 2004

GM:
Saturn: Family Cars
Chevrolet: Tough Cars, trucks
Pontiac: Performance Division, Entry Level Performance
Oldsmobile: Gone
Buick: Japanese Entry Level Luxury, touring cars at Wal Mart Prices
Cadillac: European Sport Luxury

FORD:
Ford: Family Cars
Mercury: Entry Level Luxury
Lincoln: Luxury
Volvo: Swedish Luxury
Jaguar: British Luxury
Land Rover: SUVs
Aston Martin: Exotic Luxury (add a sedan, like the Maserati Quatteporte)

DaimlerChrysler:
Dodge: Performance
Jeep: SUVs, adventure
Chrysler: Entry Level Luxury
Plymouth (yes, this division served a purpose) Family Cars
Mercedes Benz: LUXURY.

alpha01 · February 2004

When can we expect pricing information on trim lines and options?

thanx.

~alpha

a_l_hubcaps · February 2004

alpha-

Don't know about pricing, but the ordering guide for the LaCrosse was leaked a few months ago, when the buffoons in charge of GM's fleet site posted all the 2005 stuff in error for a few days. I can't link to a copy of it because it's found on other message boards, but do some Googling and you'll find it.

-Andrew L

1487 · February 2004

Are you seriously talking trash about Ford engines? I will believe the new engine when I see it. Ford has already said that a more powerful engine may be up to three years away. When it gets here maybe the 500 will catch the 240hp Lacrosse, but then again maybe it won't. GM ponies always mean more than Ford ponies. The Ford cars will be nice once they get more power, but it remains to be seen if cars that large are really what Camry/Accord buyers are looking for.

rctennis3811 · February 2004

"Are you seriously talking trash about Ford engines? I will believe the new engine when I see it. Ford has already said that a more powerful engine may be up to three years away. When it gets here maybe the 500 will catch the 240hp Lacrosse, but then again maybe it won't. GM ponies always mean more than Ford ponies. The Ford cars will be nice once they get more power, but it remains to be seen if cars that large are really what Camry/Accord buyers are looking for."

FoMoCo said the Duratec 35 will be out next year for the 500 and Mustang...not three years away.

GM ponies always mean more than Ford ponies?? Where's the evidence?? The only car maker that lies on HP a lot is HyunKia. There cars actually make 10 less HP than stated.

FYI: The 500 is supposed to be an alternative to the LeSabre/Park Avenue, Avalon, etc. and is not a direct competitor to the Camcords. That job will be left to the Futura.

larryt22 · February 2004

I thought the LaCrosse was to replace both the Century and the Regal. According to the GM on-line ordering guide, the Century will still be produced for the 2005 model year. Is this a change in plans or has it always been that way?

rerenov8r · February 2004

This is a pretty standard move among the domestics --when a 'radical' model new introduction would result in the elimination of a less advanced vehicle the "old standard" is still produced. Ford did this with the Escort --> Focus, more recently Chevy did this with the S-10 Blazer --> TrailBlazer.

I think this is a sop to fleet sales & "volume volume volume" style dealers who move thousands of 'basic' units per year...

joey2brix · February 2004

The century is suppose to be restricted to fleet sales but like the Malibu "Classic", people are seeing them sold at dealers if you want one.

b4z · February 2004

Things are really bad over at Buick.
Today's YTD production totals are 44,378 vs. 90,172 last year!!!

50% LESS!

At this rate they will cease to exist in another year or two.

Cadillac is up 20%!

LONG LIVE OLDSMOBILE!!

Buick LaCrosse

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