Buick LaCrosse

mrrogers · December 2004

Thanks for posting the Washington Post article by Warren Brown. You are correct that you must be registered to read the article. Since registration is free, I highly recommend it.

venus537 · December 2004

i'm certainly not a big fan of toyota but i would probably get a camry over a lacrosse.

dispencer1 · December 2004

New ones (I assume base) are advertised for $29,995 in Albuquerque. I frankly think that the middle line LaCrosse feels larger (less cramped) and doesn't ride like a 1997 Ranger extended cab. It isn't a "sports sedan" but is a pleasant riding well equipped car. Nothing special but it doesn't have to be to appeal to the people Buick is trying to reach.

dispencer1 · December 2004

Other than the better resale value, I'd like to know why? Nothing wrong with the Camry - I agree.

vanman1 · December 2004

I would go Allure for sure. Resale is the only down side I can see but I keep cars for 8 years so it won't make that much difference.

Allure CXS MSRP is around $33K CDN. Camry XLE is about the same up here. Equipment varies a little but they are similar. Allure CXS has more hp, style (IMO) and more space I believe. Don't care about NAV systems nor do most people.

rkw2 · December 2004

I was at the dealership having my Regal serviced and walked over to the sales showroom. I sat in a LaCrosse with an MSRP over $32,000. Outside was nice looking, however I was very disappointed in the interior. The leather on the seats was very stiff and the seats were uncomfortable. The lumbar support was almost ineffective. The dashboard buttons for heat, radio etc were small and cheap looking/feeling. No steering wheel controls for radio. Rear visibility appeared to have a lot of blind spots. Rear seat was very tight. Cup holders were small. The interior looked to have been designed 15 years ago. It is more aesthetically appealing on my new to me 1999 Regal. Salesman told me that sales are very disappointing. I would expect that at that price point. Without having driven the car, I'd say for that kind of money I'd go for an entry level luxury car ie Acura, infinity, Lexus, Volvo, etc....The special red tag sale knocks off a couple of dollars but not a whole lot. A car parked outside had the same MSRP.

yurakm · December 2004

Couple of dollars, or couple of thousand dollars?

rkw2 · December 2004

Only a couple of thousand $$...red tag price was still more than $30,000. I forgot to mention that the wood by the gear shifter was badly scratched.....

johnclineii · December 2004

Don't you mean the fake stuff that is supposed to look like wood was badly scratched?

yurakm · December 2004

I thought at first this fake wood is just a Buick nonsense. However, it looks as this is a current fad. Saw the woody plastic on many pictures, even a picture of a new Jeep. By the way, what about your new Ford 500: do I remember it right that it also have a plenty of fake wood on dashboard and/or console?

johnclineii · December 2004

Tons of it. I would have preferred honest black plastic!

The 00 Impala LS I traded in for it also had fake wood.

The worst I ever saw was on the early Altimas, where it was ORANGE!

yurakm · December 2004

Wow!

dan165 · December 2004

Cheap? I have sat in the Allure and I don't find the interior cheap at all. It's very comparable to a Camry. No it's not a Mercedes but it's also a car that starts at around U$22K / C$25K.

frasierdog · December 2004

The Camry while a nice car, the interior pales in comparison to the CXS. Let's compare.

Camry - Speedo set does not match the radio which does not match the A/C controls. Only Toyota is this cheap to use LCD instruments. Even a cheap Ford can match all the controls. No backseat reading lamps in the Camry. Door switches are not light & smaller, less supportive seats in the Camry.

The Camry and the LaCrosse are priced the way they are equipped.

venus537 · December 2004

if the lacrosse is going to be a break through car it needs to attract buyers who would normally not be caught dead in a buick. you know, like what cadillac is doing. i don't see the lacrosse expanding beyond the market the regal had developed.

johnclineii · December 2004

Frasierdog: It's not about a feature by feature comparison. It IS about the overall feeling given the driver and passengers by the entire interior. It is about perception. And the fact of the matter is, if GM wants to attract non-GM customers, they will have to far exceed Toyota in interior quality, at least for a while. . . And they can do it. The new Cadillacs are proof that they can.

The better question is can they do so at a competitive price point? The jury remains out.

vanman1 · December 2004

I disagree.

Allure/LaCrosse is better than the Camry inside and out in terms of style and quality. Buick already has a stellar quality reputation and record (go look at the JD Power site), they just need to hammer the message and get the word out better. All you see in Toyota ads is quality claims, they have done a great job instilling that in peoples minds.

Advertising has not really started on the this car so it will be interesting to see how they position it.

venus537 · December 2004

styling depends on your point of view. i don't see where the quality of the lacrosse is superior to the camry.

buick has a stellar quality reputation in terms of reliability. if you work with the same designs long enough you're bound to eventually get the bugs worked out.

what kind of message does GM instil in people's mind with their ads? red tag sales, 0% interest for what ever, rebates....

vanman1 · December 2004

Looking over the car, the fit and finish is as good if not better than Camry. Base power is a V6 (vs a 4) and the 3.6L upgrade is more powerful than Camry. The LaCrosse is not an all new car so it's very likely to be as reliable as previous Buicks as much as the Camry was likely to be as reliable as any previous model.

Key here is marketing the quality and the value hard. Incentives will be added but they have a car that is worthy of much fewer of them.

johnclineii · December 2004

That will all depend on sales. Consumers collectively will decide if the car is worthy of selling at full retail...or less, perhaps much less...

coopergerry · December 2004

I own a LaCrosse/Allure CXS and can attest to the fact that it does have radio controls built into the steering wheel along with cruise control and HVAC. Also, the CXS has an electrically-powered lumbar which requires the ignition key to be in the Alt or Run position to function. Perhaps you could take a second look and a thorough test drive. The leather seating is well bolstered to provide good lateral support when you are putting this car through its paces. Moreover, I find these seats to be as comfortable as those in the Honda Accord. This car has a lot going for it - good looks, good ergonomics, great performance and handling, comfortable and very quiet interior in which to enjoy a distortion-free stereo sound system, safety features to keep you out of harm's way, - all at a very reasonable price point. Perhaps you should take one out for a thorough road test and let us know if your second impressions differ much from your first ones.

rkw2 · January 2005

First impressions are often lasting. If I am in a showroom and do not like what I see or feel when I get into a car I am not going to take it for a test drive. My point is that GM should have done its due diligence and checked out and copied the interior features of upscale and luxury cars in designing the interior of the LaCrosse. I had higher expectations from a $32,000 car than what I saw. Last year I rented a 2 year old base 4 cyl Kia Optima (my car was being repaired after an accident) and I thought that it had a more appealing interior and dash set up. Granted, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but a great interior will get people to test drive the car. In the car i sat in only cruise control was on the steering wheel.

coopergerry · January 2005

IF only cruise control on the steering wheel, then given the price you stated, you were probably in the CX or CXL model. If you want to go upscale, you should try the CXS. IMO, it compares very well to the Volvo S60, Honda Accord/Acura TSX, Camry XLE/Lexus ES 330 both in the showroom and on the road. I tried them all over the past year.

1487 · January 2005

I dont think there is any Kia that has a better interior than the Lacrosse. The Lacrosse isnt a true entry level luxury car so people looking for such a car might be disappointed. The Lacrosse will primarily compete agaisnt uplevel versions of the Camry, 500 and Accord. Besides, you cannot compare a fully loaded Lacrosse to a fully loaded ES330 wihout taking into account the price difference. For $33K the Lacrosse isnt going to have all the features you would find in a $40K lexus or Audi.

johnclineii · January 2005

...nor is it going to come with Lexis or Audi levels of service and dealership experience.

Sigh.

alpha01 · January 2005

The 3.6L has 15 horses more than the Camry SE V6, but 15 fewer pound feet of torque. Base power may be a V6, but that model starts at $23,500 and does not offer ABS and alloys as standard, whereas the $23,400 Camry LE V6 (most basic model with V6) has ABS, alloys, as well as 8 way adjustable drivers seat standard. Should ABS really be an option on a $23,500 car in the year 2005? Camry also offers a side impact chest bag as part of its option packages, something the LaCrosse doesnt offer even fully loaded at $34K. Honda seriously kicks both making all the bags standard.

I agree that Toyota should needs to get the radio and climate displays to match- but I dont feel they need to match the speedo/tach. Thats personal preference. However, all Camrys, even the $19,000 Standard model, feature electroluminescent instrumentation, decidedly more upscale than standard dials.

The incentives argument is a hard play, because the LaCrosse, compared to many competitors seems overpriced.

Finally, there will be a review of the LaCrosse in next months issue of Consumer Reports, which has met GMs most recent offerings with mixed feelings- the Malibu is rated quite high, while the differently tuned G6, quite low.

~alpha

drwilsc · January 2005

One wonders how two cars that are cousins of each other like the Malibu and G6 are ranked so differently. How can you love one car and strongly dislike the other when they have the exact same 3.5 liter engine and share many parts? I understand they are tuned differently, but that should only amount to a small difference in scoring, not such a large one.

I don't yet know what their verdict of the LaCrosse will be, but I'm starting to take what they say with a grain of salt. I know they have not been very fond of most Buicks lately.

alpha01 · January 2005

The interior bits and details in the Malibu and G6 are different, and the suspension parts and tires used differ as well. I believe the seats in the vehicles are differently shape, and things like visibility, ingress/egress, and wind noise also change due to the G6s more stylish exterior. To the car mags such daily issues matter very little, but CR rates such components....
Look on the bright side- at least GM is truly and finally differentiating between vehicles that share the same platforms.

~alpha

vanman1 · January 2005

A base Camry with a 4 and plastic wheel covers lists for about the same as a base Allure with a V6 and plastic wheel covers in Canada. That's what I was comparing and I think the Allure is a better value. The cars are hard to compare as the packages are all a bit different. Over all I don't see Camry as a superior vehicle except in the minds of people who thing Toyota walks on water. I agree with you on the ABS though, should be standard accross the board on the Allure/LaCrosse

a_l_hubcaps · January 2005

vanman-

Is the Canadian Allure decontented compared to the US version? In the US, a 2005 Standard Camry lists for a little over $18000 and a 2005 LaCrosse CX lists for around $23500! That's a pretty big spread. The LaCrosse CX is priced about the same as a Camry XLE.

-Andrew L

gsemike · January 2005

You also need to consider that the G6 and Malibu are in different ballparks pricewise. Maybe the Malibu does just fine when evaluated in the context of $20k and under but with the G6 all the way up there at $28k, it just doesn't stand up. This is a weakness of GM trying to reskin at $20k car and get $28k for it because the bolt 18s on it. That wheezy old pushrod 6 just doesn't belong in at car in the mid to high 20s.

drwilsc · January 2005

You guys bring up good points, thank you. Is it safe to say that 'gse' refers to the trim line of a Buick Regal? I used to have a 1999 Regal GS. I loved it, especially the supercharged engine. I got rid of it after only 2 years because of all the rattles and poor build quality (especially that annoying dash rattle). My 2001 Chrysler Sebring 2.7 liter V6 is not as fast but seems to be screwed together a little better after 4 years (knock on fake wood). I have been particularly interested in the LaCrosse as a possible replacement in a year or two.

vanman1 · January 2005

It's the other way around from what I can see. Toyota does not sell the stripper Camry here it sells in the US. Base Camry LE is C$24950 with 160hp 4 and rear drums. Base Allure here is the CX (though ABS is optional) lists for for C$25200 and has a rock solid 3800 200hp V6 and many extra features.

I know what I would get after adding a few hundred for ABS.

alydar · January 2005

just purchased a lacrosse cx after testing the camry le 4cyl and altima 2.5s 4 cyl. the 'quiet toning' was what really sold me not to mention after rebates, dealer disc, and gm 'blue card' savings of 2,500.00 ... i paid 16,500 from a 23,625 msrp.

i'm thrilled.

vanman1 · January 2005

Wow, great deal. Is that a base CX?

I have not tested one but for the $$, the Lacrosse CX certainly seems like a better car than anything else in it's price range.

yurakm · January 2005

$7,125 lower than MSRP.

$1000 rebate, $2,500 GM card, and, most probably, $1,500 additional rebate for GM card holders. This makes $5,000. It lefts dealer discount of $2,125. Very good discount for new model in the beginning of model year. Not only way better than Edmunds TVM, but probably a bit lower than invoice. I guess because the car is very unpopular without ABS.

vanman1 · January 2005

Ya, ABS is a must in Canada anyway.

alydar · January 2005

yes, it was just the base. the only add-on was 130.00 for the lumbar support.

also, it was late in the afternoon on 1/3/05 (when the red tag sale and gm card bonus dollars were ending).

i didn't trade anything so i had a really good read on the numbers---in other words they couldn't pull any typical dealer bs with trade allowance, etc.

23,625.00 msrp

2,625 dealer disc

1,000 bonus certificates

1,000 rebate

1,000 gmac bonus program dollars (i didn't think this was available on the lacrosse but they gave it to me. and i'll refinance the 7.25 gm rate to a much lower rate in a week or so.

2,500 in gm card allowance (this was great)

16,500 final deal

i know it doesn't have abs or won't hold up well in the depreciation game against accord or camry but i paid much less than the foreign jobs.

i really recommend a test drive of this car. for the money (even adding $$$ to my lucky deal) it's really pretty good.

rkw2 · January 2005

Good luck on your new LaCrosse and I hope you enjoy driving it. It appears that you got a good deal. You seemed to qualify for a lot of rebates and bonus programs. If someone does not qualify for anything other than the discount and rebate, then the price is closer to $20k for a car w/out ABS. (I dont have a GMAC card). The dealer near me displayed cars with $32+k msrp. The ones I saw parked on his lot were in the $26k to $32k range. Even with the discounts/bonuses, these prices gets pretty hefty.(You may get hit in the end with the $1000 bonus that you mention does not apply to LaCrosse. A few years ago one of the mega dealers here in NJ pulled that on me with an Alero. When I went to pick up the car he said I did not qualify for the bonus and apologized for the oversight and told me that GM would not allow him to budge. I cancelled the deal and went to another dealer.)

alydar · January 2005

Thanks.

You're right, the gm card dollars and what i believe was a mistake by the dealer on the gmac bonus program (i've got the car) did make this an unusual deal.

This may be a combination of early euphoria over a great deal and the newness of the car ... but, as i said, if you can get into a LaCrosse for 19 or so, it's worth it. I'm sure more (better) incentives will pop later this year (or next week). I know one thing, even with all the rebates and super dooper sales, the dealers here in St. Louis didn't appear to be too busy.

I've had several cynical foreign car owners drive the LaCrosse and they were impressed.

yurakm · January 2005

Congratulations with your new car!

yurakm · January 2005

LaCrosse replaces two previous models - Century and Regal. This is why the price range is so wide.

The least expensive LaCrosse CX is, basically, Regal LS (3.8l engine) with new skin and Century price. LaCrosse CXL is like loaded Regal LS.

The most expensive LaCrosse CXL replaces loaded Regal GS. Its modern engine produces the same power, and improvements mostly concerns noise insulating and electronics - audio, optional stablilitrak, optional remote starter etc. Loaded Regal GS also had MSRP above $30k.

The last time I looked on Buick data, the ratio of Century to Regal sold was about 3:1. GM does not publish sales statistics for different trims; however I see about 3 times more Regal LS on the streets than Regal GS. I guess that the same will happen with LaCross: after initial period, sales of CX:CXL:CXS will be about 9:3:1.

Concerning ABS: the last two years they became optional for many GM models who used to have standard ABS, including Buick Regal. Many competitors always had only optional ABS. Looks as rush to bottom: the prices looks better in comparison tables.

It is probably OK to have a car without ABS on flat terrains, without snow. Definitely not in New England. Dangerous and irresponsible.

dan165 · January 2005

ABS should be standard but I guess Buick wants to keep the CX an entry level car to compete with the base Camcords. Probably wise.

I would probably spend the extra money and get ABS as it helps even on wet flat pavement which one gets everywhere.

I have seen about 3 Allures on the road so far. They look pretty typical Buick, a bit sportier than the others though. The new Impala looks to be another good GM sedan, check out the pictures. They will have a V8 with DOD option instead of the 3.6L in the Buick.

yurakm · January 2005

I would agree that LaCross "look pretty typical Buick". I like much more how Regal looks/looked. This is the main reason why my wife and I purchased November 30 our second Regal GS instead of LaCrosse. We preferred a leftover demo with 6,800, 2004 model built in July 2003, to brand-new CXS.

You said: "The new Impala looks to be another good GM sedan, check out the pictures".

Where can I see the pictures? We will looking for a third car in 2006 or 2007. Our son is 14 already.

vanman1 · January 2005

chevrolet.com has all the Impala pictures under future cars.

Regal was a nice looking car, especially in GS trim. That said it was also a bit dated all around and I would take a the more refined 3.6L over a 3800 SC.

yurakm · January 2005

Thank you!

samnoe · January 2005

http://autoshow.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/103625/article- .html

vanman1 · January 2005

Pictures just released on the Saturn Aura also..

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/showroom/future_vehicles/aura.jsp?na- v=720

shame mcshame · January 2005

I bought a new LaCrosse CX today. I got lucky that the dealer found exactly the model I wanted at another Buick dealer that they trade with.

It's a steelmist metallic cloth CX with the front bench/column trans shifter seat set up. Which is what we wanted. It had the exact options/seat/color we wanted. In addition to the bench seat option ($200). It has the silver package with remote starter, steering wheel radio controls,dual zone climate controls, and some other items. Alloy wheels,ABS,and a spoiler. It is exactly the car and color we wanted. With the spoiler the only thing we diddn't want, but wasn't a deal breaker.

The MSRP came to about $26,000. I won't take delivery untill they get the car from the other dealer of course.

Since I was getting a car exactly the way I wanted it. I couldn't really haggle as if I was picking one off the lot.

I got $1500 off the MSRP for a GM loyalty rebate because I am trading in my 99 Cavalier. I got another $1000 off using my GM credit card earnings. I was dissapointed I couldn't use all $1600 of my earnings. GM is capping it at a $1000 for now. $2500 off MSRP seems good to me. I also got a 4% GMAC loan rate for six years. Which is what they are offering instead of cash allowances on the LaCrosse for now.

We test drove the Grand Prix and G6 also. The G6 had alot of engine noise and the grand Prix was very ugly inside.

They diddn't have a bench seat LaCrosse to look at but even though we are only "thirty somethings" My wife and I wanted a bench seat car like our parents had as kids. She will use the Lacrosse to commute 90 miles a day and as our family car. I'm sure the renote starter with the auto climate adjustment feature will be welcome for her this winter each morning for her drive to work.

I diddn't think we would find a LaCrosse in this configuration. We should take delivery in 3-5 days. I thought the ABS would be hard to find on a CX model. We diddn't wan't a leather interior CXL.

yurakm · January 2005

Congratulations to you and your wife!

I believe, depending on region, ABS is not hard to find. At least in CT, I cannot remember to see a single LaCrosse without ABS when looking on GMBuyPower and in a couple of dealerships I visited. I would be unsafe to drive without ABS in our places, especially in winter. Hilly terrains and slippery pavements.

However, it is always difficult to find a car with all options you like and without options you do not like. You are lucky.

Depending on traffic, 90 miles daily is a hard to very hard commute. Your wife needs comfortable and safe car.

Buick LaCrosse

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