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Cadillac DTS

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  • My understanding is that the name DTS and RWD are a "done deal" when the "Deville" gets its major makeover.Here are my thougths as to what would be best for Cadillac to do. #1 Keep the name "Deville" and FWD for the "base model", you've got to crank out units to make a profit and the base car is good enough (it you start incorporating some of the DHS AND DTS technology) for the traditional Cadillac "older " buyer and with minor changes you save millions. For the rest of us have seperate model DTS with RWD and possibly an optional supercharged Northstar, around 400 hp or so . Eventually, yes, you will phase out the "Deville" as we know it now, but i think there is alot of sales left in the vheicle. The RWD DTS can move Cadillac forward but you cant drop your customer base (dance with who brung ya). The Seville STS as more of a "Merecedes fighter",,, sure why not, just keep the price down enough to make it an attractive option. Elvis
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Whoops, I've been ignoring this topic. The DTS will be redesigned on its current FWD G-body platform, with a new exterior and significantly upgraded interior. It will probably remain in its current price bracket, which means ~$45-55k. It is still unclear whether it will go for the edgy Art & Science look, or a softened look that Lutz is partial to. Given Lutz's dislike for A&S, and Cadillac's desire to retain its current older buyers for the DTS, it wil probably be softened up.
  • Frankly, I don't see what is so wrong with FWD. The car reviewers loved FWD back in the '70's. The 2005 base DTS or Deville should have a decent radio. The one in my Chevy Malibu is much better than the one in my base '03 Deville "Program Car". If I had bought it new, I would have definately gotten the Bose radio. I would think that the top of the line GM automobile would have a radio with the features of the one they put in a Chevy -RDS, tone choices, volume tied to speed, etc etc.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    I think people will complain that it's on the same platform, rather than complain it's FWD.
  • I think the platform is great. The car rides very well and is a size that fits in a normal garage. The engine is audible when accelerating but that's the only noise. You can't hear the engine in many cars because of the wind and road noise. It is the nicest looking Cadillac since the 1965-6 models a really pretty design. I wanted one from the time that the 2000's came out and finally got one. I've had it a month and no problems at all. Drives and looks like a brand new one.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    I know the G-body is good, but the press always clamors for change for the sake of change.
  • What amuses me -speaking about the press - is Motor Trend's "Car of the Year". I remember that one year (I think it was '71), the Car of the Year was the Vega. The automotive press never
    really liked the Cadillac -not even the present DeVille -which is light years better than anything I've driven to date. I guess I must be getting old - I went through the English phase (Jag Mk X), Japanese phase (a couple of Celicas) and the German phase(Audi 5000S). The press loved the Audi 5000S up until the unintended acceleration bit that destroyed the resale value of this car - unfortunately I'd bought one a month before. My '86 Audi lived at the dealership with all sorts of electronic problems and I managed to dump it 1,000 miles before the 50k warranty was up. The Buick place wouldn't even take it on trade. So much for the automobile press. Can't wait to see the new DTS but will keep my 2003 in any case as a second car.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,902
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  • Thanks very much for the welcome. I have a 2003 base Deville (ex Alamo rental car) that I purchased from Denny Thomson at Frank Kent Cadillac, Ft. Worth, TX. in January. This is a great dealership and Denny is a Cadillac buff with sales stuff back to the '60's in his collection. I'll never deal with anyone else.
    I've had a couple of classic Cadillacs back in the '60's (a 1940 Model 62 and a '47 Fleetwood Model 60) plus a 1959 Model 62, a '72 Eldorado coupe, and a 1988 Fleetwood. The 2003 beats all of them hands down. Looking forward to getting a 2000-2002 Eldorado next as a second car till I can afford an XLR.
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    Who knows? I do wonder how many of the posters demanding rwd own or would even consider buying a cadillac? Like it or not, lots of snowbelt drivers will not buy rwd cars. AWD cars, sans subaru, have always had low sales numbers. I suspect that if Cadillac abandons the fwd market, the asians will happily step in and service such a large and lucrative market. Backing into a garrage at a 90 degree angle in deep snow is much easier with fwd than rwd. That's one reason many town car owners in my block have switched to devilles. A Lincloln LS driver spun out in front of me yesterday making a right turn onto Lake Shore Drive.

    If I had to replace my 2002 DTS, I would not look at any rwd, not even the bmw or cts.

    I would look first at the Acura TL. That is the car Cadillac needs to compete against. A dumpy fwd car won't cut the mustard in today's competetive market place. Cadillac needs to make good front wheel drive cars that perform well and are reliable and moderately priced like the TL (and good rwd cars like the cts). And if it also burns regular gas....
  • Well, since the STS will have AWD available, why get FWD if AWD is the same price?
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    Shoppers that I know who have initially shopped awd offerings are ultimately turned off by the higher price, complexity and repair issues, poorer mpg, and sometimes handling issues on dry pavement. The rest of them typically wind up buying a suv. The midsize and larger suvs will rack up more sales and make much more money for cadillac than an awd STS or DTS. The extra drive axle in an awd sedan also generates unacceptable noise levels in uplevel sedans (x types being one of the worst offenders)and gobbles up trunk space. Making the DTS (and/or STS) rwd, even with an awd option might be the kiss of death for sales in one of the deville's strongest markets.

    Alternatively, cadillac could shrink the base/dhs/dts/sts and offer them off the same shortened platform as fw,rwd and awd variations upon a theme.
  • I got sold on FWD when I drove my father's new 1971 Toronado. We lived in Washington DC and FWD was great in the snow. Out here in NM my wife wants a Honda Pilot with AWD. She has gotten stuck in soft shoulders with her FWD Silhouette and as a realtor she has to drive on dirt roads in the country. I always thought that FWD was an advancement over RWD. I was unaware of "torque steer" and all that terrible stuff that car enthusiasts and car magazines toss out about FWD. My 2003 Deville rides very nicely and handles and tracks well. I've driven Town Cars and they remind me of the big cars of the '70's and the old Cadillac DeVilles of the early '80's - ponderous handling and mainly they just feel heavy and outmoded.
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    The press and many posters in Edmunds forums seem to be urging cadillac to chase after the European makes by switching everything over to rwd or awd based on rwd. In the past, whenever GM has tried to play catch up with the rest of the world, they have bungled things.

    I hope they find a way to stick to what they know best and extend it so that they can lead instead of follow. The Cts is a great car, they seem to be bringing out versions like the v which extend on their success with it. I hope they also take everything they've learned by building the current generation of devilles (and maybe steal a little from saab and subaru)to show the world that they can still make a fine luxury fwd car with the new DTS. It will be difficult to break the 300 hp barrier and keep torque steer at bay, but that's what engineers are for.

    With the rest of the world going rwd, acura, cadillac, saab, audi and a few others will have the fwd market almost to themselves. Who knows the trend might swing back to fwd with cadillac among the leaders. Cadillac or somebody should reverse engineer the TL. It could become the new benchmark for fwd performance cruisers. Just imagine if cadillac builds a fwd DTS that matches or outdoes the TL.
  • It will be a shame if Cadillac builds a DeVille that is just a larger version of the CTS. The edgy styling just doesn't look as good as the styling of the 2000-2004. It is almost as good as the beautiful 1965-1966 models. My only complaint is that it could be a couple of inches higher which would help the entry and exit. At least it isn't as bad as the Buick LeSabre and virtually all the Chrysler cars. It sure looks better than the Lexus which resembles the pre-2003 Camry -just a bland car which actually looks midsized. No design at all. Cadillac seems to have a winner with the DeVille and I hope they don't experiment with it and mess it up.
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    I hope that they don't mess up the style either, although I do expect some family resemblance to the cts.

    When I bought my 2002 DTS, I was amazed at how well it handled for a large car. I still think, it outhandles everything its size. Unfortunately, the 2004 acura tl as well as my wife's 2004 v6 accord, handle even better, of course they are much smaller cars. They are also much more fun to drive.

    If the new DTS is fwd and has not only the expected power and luxery but also polish and is more fun to drive than the current one and at least competitive with the tl, cadillac will have a run away winner on its hands.
  • The base 2003 Deville I have isn't really "fun to drive". None of the old Cadillac full size cars were either. This is basically a road car. It will cruise all day at 75. It is quiet and peaceful and and when you get out of it you can actually walk. My Malibu is a lot more fun to drive but a long trip in it is not fun for your back. My problem with the Accords was that they had seats like rocks. No cushion at all. Hopefully they have improved them. I try not to drive the DeVille on short trips around town because the gas mileage is terrible. I hope that they also improve the base radio in the 2006. If I had bought this 2003 new I would have gotten the Bose radio which at least has the features that Chevy radios come with - RDS and auto tone, etc. My Malibu radio is much better than the one in the DeVillE. Wish I could swap radios but unlike the old radios in the pre-1994 models, you can't do it.
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    None of the devilles will be confused with the handling or fun to drive quotient of a sports sedan, but the dts seems to handle better and be more fun to drive than the base deville or any other large fwd or rwd domestic sedan. The fwd imports which handle better are typically much smaller. Test drive a DTS and you will notice the difference between it and base deville model. The Bose stereo in the DTS rocks and stiffer springs translate into better handling and much less body lean than in the base deville. Night Vision, Navigation system and maybe Stabiltrak are also not available on the base model. You are correct in that the devilles shine as highway cruisers.

    For the sake of fairness, the leather seats in the 2004 Accord V6 EX are quite comfortable.
  • I'm really glad the Accord seats are now comfortable. It has been a number of years since I tried them. I'll certainly check out the DTS. I guess I compared it to the 1999 Seville STS which a friend has. It rides about the same as the '97 Ranger Extended Cab I once had. Fortunately the stereo is a lot better. I think the DTS would have been a better choice than the base DeVille but since used DTS's are tough to come by a year old, we thought that this $26k base '03 Deville was a bargain. It was certified and has been fine for driving real estate clients around in. Everybody is very relaxed and comfortable. I've heard many good things about the DTS and hopefully my next Deville will be one. The stereo alone will make it worthwhile. By the way, my stereo has started to skip on CD's at least once every song or two - I'll take it in next week to the dealer for a replacement with a rebuilt one. Anyone else had this problem? I have a cleaning kit for computer CD-ROMs. Shall I try and use it?
  • setzersetzer Posts: 127
    I like the current DeVille. The current Seville is ugly in my opinion, and needs it's new design. On the other hand, I like the DeVille how it is and I hope it doesn't get the same treatment the Seville and Catera got. If the DeVille gets the new styling, what would be the point of that? The DTS and STS would look pratically the same! Give them some individuality. Also, Edmunds is telling us that the STS is final piece of Caddy's new design, so that means no CTS/STS design for the Deville/DTS!
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    Enjoy your ride. The base is sweet... Roomy, comfortable, stylish and impressive. I still get compliments on mine as do most deville owners posting in this forum.

    My only regret is that I didn't spring for the xm radio option. Wife loves it in her accord. Will definitely have it in my next car. I bought a Delphi XM Skyfi unit, but haven't found a trustworthy installer, so I just play it in the house.
  • Motor Trend in the current issue has lots of photos of 2005 cars but absolutely nothing on the 2005/6 STS/DTS. Must not be much to read in the Cadillac corporate bathroom. MT and C&D only like exotics, race cars, and muscle cars. Consumer Reports only likes Japanese cars. Has anyone actually seen a photo of the 2005 STS or new 2006 Deville? What do they look like compared to the current ones?
  • I finally saw a photo of the 2005 STS in the current GM Edge Magazine distributed to dealers. It looks very similar to the CTS. The photo is a 3/4 view so it is impossible to determine the length of the car but the taxt said that it was built on the CTS platform and therefore is probably smaller than the present 2004 SLS. I'd still like to see a photo of the 2006 DTS. I hope that it is the same length that the present Deville is now.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    It can't change length by that much, it will be on the same platform. Basically they are improving the mechanicals, freshening the look, and tearing down and rebuilding the interior.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I say again - Has anybody seen a photo of the 2006 DTS ?
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    No, most likely pics will surface next auto show season.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    Update, the DTS will be coming in spring 2005.

    Possibly AWD standard.
  • pitsterpitster Posts: 3
    Hey Theo, many thanks for the Spring 2005 info on the 2006 DTS. Can you share with us your source? As well any styling info, spy shots, etc.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    I can tell you the program code, GMX-272.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    issue describes and illustrates 50 cars "worth waiting for". Lots of 2005's, 6's and even 7's but not one mention of any Cadillacs, even the STS which is currently being promoted by Cadillac. I sent them an email. I couldn't understand why there was not even a mention of the 2006 DTS. You would think that someone would have taken a spy photo of it. It must be a really closely guarded secret. Hopefully it will look lots better than the present 430 Lexus sedan beloved by the yuppies which resembles a mid size pre-2003 Toyota Camry. Bland is not the word for it. My 2003 Deville is at least recognizable as a Cadillac. With a Lexus sedan you have to get close enough to see the logo.
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