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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    This talk about an astronomical price jump on the 2005 Legacy is starting to get tiresome.Why give yourself an ulcer over that which you cannot control?

    In other world markets where the new legacy is already on sale there was a minimal price increase, why would Subaru shoot themselves in the foot by pricing themselves out of the market here?

     Cheers Pat.
  • zoomer1zoomer1 Member Posts: 42
    Good point. I, for one, will test drive the new Legacy and bounce it against the VW 4Motion, G35x, Pacifica, and even Highlander Hybrid. I really hope SOA has done a good job with the interior. Is there any information on whether navigation is completely out for the sedans? Automotive news implied so but I wasn't sure if it was definite.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    how the price increase is THAT substantial, given the upgrades...

    ~alpha
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    All signs point to no navigation system initially. There have been some rumors of navi availability at the end of the year.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I bet it will be a separate '06 model, and not an option. In Europe it's sold as a GTn. I bet it will be packaged here in North America the same way; all Legacys and Outbacks with nav will be ID'ed with an "n" classification.

    I also bet we'll get the Legacy H-6 w/6-speed for '06. Reportedly that car will go on sale in Europe, Oz & NZ in the fall. I bet we'll be next.

    Bottom line: I think for MY06 SOA will flush out the Legacy & Outback with all the MIA items we had hoped for for MY05.

    Bob
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    Navigation won't be offered in this model year, I have heard that the holdup has something to do with the future use of GM's OnStar??

    I could tell you the source of this info however either way it doesn't matter.. you can believe it or not.. I don't know if I believe it or not.. I do know that the Navigation system won't be offered.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Zoomer wrote

    high quality interiors are standard

    I noticed this right away. Thicker carpets. Padded headliner, fabric even on the A-pillar like BMW and Mercedes. No loose edges on carpets, all tucked away. Power seats with nicer fabrics and better comfort plus 4 level heat.

    You may not need or even want this, I have a feeling some will say the interior is "too nice" for the wear and tear of a family or muddy mountain bikes. But that's what they mean by that.

    Accord only comes as a sedan. I think 93% of all Outbacks are sold as wagons. With Legacy it might be less, but still, the great majority of Subies are not sedans.

    Accord also only comes with FWD. Zero Subarus with FWD now.

    Plus, keep in mind you pay more for wagons, about $1000 more. $2000 more than that for AWD. Add that to an Accord and you see the value of a Subie. In fact the Accord might get SH-AWD but that would definitely make it cost more.

    -juice
  • radianradian Member Posts: 21
    Juice-

    Have you seen/felt the fabrics in person? Or has anyone? I'm curious if they're like the WRX interior fabrics (shiny/smooth)? Or the STi (suede-like)? Or more like the old Legacy fabric (bland cloth)?

    Thanks,
    Luke
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Subie sells a lot of wagons because no one else sells wagons in that price range except for Ford. ;) There's more competition for sedans.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not Sti-like, :(

    but still very nice.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, there are fewer wagons competing, but Subaru sells very, very few sedans. That was my point.

    They could stop building sedans and people would barely notice!

    Mazda6 and Passat wagon are the only competitors I can think of close enough to be cross-shopped, and only VW offers AWD. Plus VW sales have plunged lately, while Subaru is growing.

    Yes I've sat in a few 2005 Legacys, and I own a 2002 so I feel qualified to say there is a noticeable move upmarket in terms of fit and finish and materials. It matches the Passat now, with a more interesting dash design. I'm impressed.

    -juice
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Well, the Mazda6 just came out, and even though Mazda's sales are pretty booming lately, they target a different market (the WRX/XT/GT trims would overlap somewhat, but that's about it). The Passat is really (supposed to be, anyway) a level above Subaru. Hence, on the wagon, you can't get AWD much below 30k, I think.

    Still, since Subaru sells an Outback up there, it might be valid competition. But you have to throw in the Taurus/Sable twins (unfortunate, but true), and the Mazda6 wagon too. Wait...Dodge Magnum. With optional AWD, though I don't know where it's going to price. Hmm, hey Edmunds, I smell a comparison test coming! ;)
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Bawahahah, you must be joking, these bottom feeding junkers compare to nothing but themselves.

      Cheers Pat.
  • ntk1ntk1 Member Posts: 57
    The need-desire web site has the official prices posted
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    I want to see some comparos with:

    Audi A4 3.0 Avant
    Audi A6 3.0 Avant
    BMW 325Xi Wagon
    BMW 535i Wagon
    Mazda 6 Wagon
    Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon
    Volvo V70 T5 Wagon
    Volvo V70R Wagon

    Acura TL Sedan
    Infiniti G35/x Sedan
    Saab 9-3 Aero Sedan
    Cadillac CTS
    BMW 330i/Xi Sedan
    Volvo S60/R Sedan
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I believe the press embargo just ended in early April. There have been sightings of 05 models around Ann Arbor so it could be the evaluations by car mags.

    Since the May issues are already out, I'd guess June.

    Ken
  • moutbackmoutback Member Posts: 39
    From need-desire.com:

    2005 Legacy Base MSRP:

    5-speed manual:
    2.5i Sedan: $20,995
    2.5i Wagon: $21,995
    2.5i Sedan: $24,445
    2.5i Wagon: $25,645
    2.5GT Sedan: $25,995
    2.5GT Wagon: $26,995
    2.5GT Ltd. Sedan: $28,495
    2.5GT Ltd. Wagon: $29,695

    4-speed auto:
    2.5i Sedan: $21,995
    2.5i Wagon: $22,995
    2.5i Ltd. Sedan: $25,445
    2.5i Ltd. Wagon: $26,645

    5-speed auto:
    2.5GT Sedan: $27,195
    2.5GT Wagon: $28,195
    2.5GT Ltd. Sedan: $29,695
    2.5GT Ltd. Wagon: $30,895

    2005 Outback Base MSRP:

    5-speed manual:
    2.5i Wagon: $23,995
    2.5i Ltd Wagon: $26,995
    2.5XT Wagon: $27,995
    2.5XT Ltd. Wagon: $30,695

    4-speed auto:
    2.5i Wagon: $24,995
    2.5i Ltd. Wagon: $27,995

    5-speed auto:
    2.5XT Wagon: $29,195
    2.5XT Ltd Wagon: $31,895
    3.0R Sedan: $30,995
    3.0R LL Bean: $32,195
    3.0R VDC: $33,395

    Not bad.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The new Legacy is a match for the Passat in terms of materials now. And the design is much more imaginative, sporty, cockpit-like.

    Dodge Magnum with a Hemi starts at just under $30k. But I bet the Legacy XT is quicker. Plus Magnum's AWD will cost another $2000 probably.

    Character will be 100% different, though.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    in the past were too pricey because the content just wasn't there. Now it is. The closest competitor to the LL Bean and VDC is the Volvo XC70, which is a good $5 - $6K over the Subies. The Passat 4Motion competes with the Legacy GT, not the Outback.

    From what I can see so far, the Subie prices seem to be in line with the competition.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's true, we're still thinking of the current model while looking at prices for the new ones.

    I guess we want something for nothing, i.e. better cars at the same prices.

    -juice
  • moutbackmoutback Member Posts: 39
    Actually they are useful if you read the specifications associated with each model.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I think he means a nice detailed sheet with little numbers, x's, o's, and p's in the boxes next to all the description. A little bit more info than given on need-desire.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    more detailed specs. next week.

    Patti
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    so I'm gonna put winter tires on my ole' explorer and wait until things settle down a bit. Its way too easy to look at a fully-loaded Mazda 6 wagon, including the Bose audio, for under $24 out the door with special financing to boot, and panic at the thought of paying another $6 GRAND for the AWD and turbo....when the Mazda already has more grunt than the '04 3.0 Outback.

    Mark
  • moutbackmoutback Member Posts: 39
    It's silly to expect detailed pricing data BEFORE the cars are actually ready for sale.
  • jwatsjwats Member Posts: 72
    Does anyone have a feeling for how much in demand for the new Legacy GT is likely and what to expect for dealer pricing? What do you think would be a good deal? My own guess is that a lot will depend on reviews in June magazines but there will not be a huge initial demand unless the reviews are very favorable. Like many, I am trying to decide whether to buy now or wait a bit.
  • radianradian Member Posts: 21
    I've ordered a GT Sedan w/MT and put down a $500 deposit. I would have preferred to get one from the first allocation, but there are literally none coming to my region (midwest, 6 different dealers were looking for me). I think I got a good deal at $750 over invoice, but it'd be possible to save a little more if you're willing to negotiate... and someone at NASIOC said he ordered and did "better" as well. I'm getting a version of the Legacy at the "value" end of the spectrum, whereas the GT Limited wagon w/AT seems a whee overpriced (in comparison to other Legacy models) and you'd probably have more room to negotiate at that end of the spectrum.

    Unless you wait for the reviews and they all say it's the best thing ever, I think you'll easily get a fair deal. Even then, there doesn't seem to be as much hype/anticipation as there was for the WRX.

    I'd say if you want a turbo with MT, you may want to order sooner. Otherwise there should be lots of cars to look at at the end of May.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    i have prices but no specific details on what these models/trims offer. and i think the details are set if SoA has established a price.

    thanks patti for the heads up for details next week.

    silly me....
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2005.html#price
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Cool! Thank you!!

    The only problem I have with the Legacy, if the above spec sheet is correct, is 1) pass through only and no folding seat on Sedan and 2) I really wish there was an options package that offered power drivers seat, moonroof, and a few other niceties for the basic 2.5i. Theres a big price jump from the 2.5i to the 2.5Limited, AND I hate leather anyway.

    ~alpha
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Elm-

    I second the thank you for that link.

    Mark
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    only thing that could help that is to line up forester line , legacy and outback in a grid comparison, instead of flipping to see for instance width of vehicle, which seems to be missing from the legacy info

    thanks again
  • mazdadriver650mazdadriver650 Member Posts: 5
    Alright, Ive been doin lots of research. I am going for the bare bones Legacy cuz Im poor and really dont need the extra horsepower and bells and whistles. Im lookin at the 2.5i. Safety is a huge issue for me. Crash test results are out for Subaru Liberty, which is Legacy in Australia. Their crash test is close to the DOT crash tests here in The U.S. The Liberty scored the best results of any car ever tested in Australia. Wow. I think Im sold. Here is the link to the results.
    http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/vehicle-safety/ancap/latest.html

    Another great Subaru site is the subenet site at http://www.subaru.net
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Anybody found EPA mileage numbers yet?
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    WAGON
    Wheelbase: 105.1 (was 104.3 for 00-04 model)
    Overall Length 188.7 (was 187.4 for 00-04 model)
    Width: 68.1
    Height: 58.1
    Headroom front/rear: 40.5/39.1
    Headroom front/rear w/ sunroof: 38.7/37.1
    Legroom front/rear: 44.1/33.9
    EPA Interior volume 97.4cf
    EPA Cargo volume 34.3cf
    Track: front/rear 58.9/58.7
     SEDAN
    Wheelbase: 105.1
    Overall Length 18.2
    Width: 68.1
    Height: 56.1
    Headroom front/rear: 39.5/36.5
    Headroom front/rear w/ sunroof: 37.5/36.5
    Legroom front/rear: 44.1/33.9
    EPA Interior volume 93.1cf
    EPA Cargo volume 11.4cf
    Track: front/rear 58.9/58.7

    By the way... you're welcome guys ;-)

    Here's the full chart I forgot to post....

    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2005.html#colors
  • WMartonWMarton Member Posts: 58
    I don't know Bob. I bought a fully-loaded 2001 Outback VDC for $29k. The 2005 will cost $2k (invoice) more. Yes, it will have a 5-speed transmission, better tuned engine (VVT), and nicer interior, but it will also lack the McIntosh audio system. So I think that the prices are high by about $1,000 for what you get. I also don't understand Subaru's strategy re. the VDC. It MAYBE made sense to have it as a separate model the last generation, but it didn't sell well. Now there is even less of a distinction between it and the LL Bean. I don't understand why Subaru isn't putting VDC into more of their cars, e.g., the LL Bean and XT as an option.

    The problem that I see for Subaru is that they have caught up to the likes of VW, but the consumer will pay a pretty penny for that privilege. The Passat is also set to be re-designed in the next year or so, so it may surge ahead again, especially if VW makes it significantly bigger than an Outback.

    Bill
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I'll have to see in person what the major differences are. I'm at the stage that I want a little luxury, with power. That sounds like the LTD to me- I figure I'm worth it. especially as I will try to keep this one for more than 3-4 years. (Unless Subaru comes out with something totally new in 5 years or so.)

    Mark
  • jwatsjwats Member Posts: 72
    I talked to my dealer about a deal on a new GT limited Legacy wagon--$7600 for my '99 GT Wagon--Edmonds and NADA trade in value--and $1500 off MSPR. It is coming in two weeks in exactly the color I would pick. My fear is that when the car is publicized in June magazines it could get great press and allow dealers to get MSRP or better.

    I don't really care about saving the last couple of hundred $ if it takes a lot of time and effort. This seems like a reasonable deal to me. And a good one if allocations get tight.

    What is the wisdom of the group?

    Do you think I could do appreciably better?

    thanks

    John
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    then tell us all about the car :)

    May 1, wow that's real soon.

    JP
  • dr61dr61 Member Posts: 1
    I noticed the options mention "STI Short Shifter" for ($221 inv.)$339 msrp.

    Has anyone tried this shifter (in any other Subaru that has the updated 5-spd manual, like the STI or Forester XT)? Recommended?
  • radianradian Member Posts: 21
    I asked a co-worker about this. He owns a 2004 WRX and does not have a short throw shifter. He's also driven a friend's STi, and he highly recommended getting the short throw shifter. He's going to get one installed on his car. I ordered my GT with one, but you'll have to wait until June before I can say how much I like it. I'll try to drive a non-short throw as well for comparison.
  • oregonmanoregonman Member Posts: 60
    Now that pricing is out, I am trying to decide whether I should buy a leftover 04 or wait for a 05. Some background, I have a 2002 Outback base wagon (auto) and it is perfect, except that it is a little lacking in power. In 2002, to get more power I would have had to go to the LL Bean and I wasn't willing to spend $5000 more.

    In my area, several dealers are advertising very aggressive pricing on the 04 Outback 6 cyl models - one has $5500 off MSRP and another has $5800 off MSRP. This puts an H6 SE Outback at $22000 - $22300, which is very tempting to me.

    It doesn't seem to me that there is anything in the 05 lineup that offers a bit more power at a price comparable to the H6 SE. Sure, I'd love the XT, but at $29770 MSRP, I think that it will be at least $3000 more than the current H6 SE prices even at the end ot the 05 model year.

    So do I grab one of these 04 H6 SE's or is it worth waiting for the prices on the 05s to come down - in which case I'll probably be going for the Outback 2.5i, because the XT is more than I'll want to spend. Thoughts?
  • morphiemorphie Member Posts: 95
    I think your dilemma can only be solved by a test drive. However, the more appropriate comparison would seem to be 2004 six cylinder vs, the '05 variety. There will be a noticeable increase in power and torque with the newer version.

    Price aside, one would think that the 6 will appeal to a different driver than the turbo: one will be somewhat more refined, the other more visceral. It is nice to have a choice.

    We placed a refundable deposit on a 2005 VDC; I am anxious to test drive it; most likely in early June.

    As regards "value": there is no substitute for the 2004 pricing. If the '04 satisfies you, it is an excellent choice.
  • zoomer1zoomer1 Member Posts: 42
    Subaru Legacy AWD
    VW Passat AWD
    Ford "Futura" AWD
    Chrysler 300 AWD (with HEMI no less)
    BMW 325xi
    Mercedes C,E,S 4matic
    Infiniti G35x
    Jag X Type
    Toyota Matrix AWD
    Acura RL SH-AWD

    and now....

    http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2825&cat- egoryId=10

    Acura TL SH-AWD...

    All your bases are covered from $20K to $50K...It is going to be fun to compare these cars in performance, price, capability, technology, value, and fun. I guess until Acura TL comes around as does the new Passat, SOA has a little time to build its business.
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    you are right about 04 prices falling like stones. If you can hold out until the 05's are on the lots, not only can you compare and decide if the extra power in the 05 is worth the extra $$ to you, but 04 prices will be even lower. you might even keep your eyes open for an 04 dealer demo. If you have a dedicated Subaru dealership, the owner and sales manager,esp, will frequently cherry-pick the best cars as they come in and drive them as demos a/k/a the "owner's wife's car". Those guys will now be trying to get dibs on the 05's as they come in and putting their 04 LLBeans and VDC's on the lot. As long as they are under 500 miles, you may even be able to get the special financing, too.

    mark
  • oregonmanoregonman Member Posts: 60
    I'd love to wait to compare the 05's in person - I gather from the discussions here that the 05's are improved in more ways than show on the spec sheets. I am worried that there will not be an 04 left with the equipment and color that I want. I don't know if the prices will get any better if I wait. Unless Subaru increases the incentives, I wouldn't expect the dealers to reduce the prices any further - it seems in previous years they would rather hold onto a few of last years models, than go below a certain price.

    As far as demo's go, the dealers around here seem to sell them for more than the best prices they advertise on the new cars - I think that they can fool people into thinking they are getting a deal because it is a demo. Anyone seen any H6 demos at less than $22000 this year or last?
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    There are a couple of guys who post here from time to time from Australia Subah6 I think is the user name of one of them.

     The 05 has been on sale in Australia for a while now, both of them traded previous generation H6 Subies for the new models and both said the new one is head and shoulders better than than the 04.

     Also they said the price increase was minimal for the improvements that were made.This info may confuse your decision even more, unfortunately they post very infrequently.

      Cheers Pat.
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