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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I saw an ad here in Boston last night regarding the big unveiling of the 05 Legacy/Outback on June 15. Um guys, they're already on the lots.

    sweetsubie, you're in Boston right?? Carmart in Wilmington has a giant sign on the front of their old building stating that the Mitusbishi side is closing. They've had Mitsu maybe 6 months?? And I thought the new building was for Mitsu but based on the pdf file shared here, that building looks like the new style Subaru store. If it is I'm suprised. When 128 Motors (the owner of Carmart) moved into there, it was supposed to be a used car superstore but the town shot that down. I understand they had to scramble to get a new car brand there.
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Patti,

    I'm glad Subaru is taking a proactive stance and turning a problem into an advantage. Mistakes happen and it's how one responds to them that makes the difference. I see this as a great way to showcase the fact that Subaru's standards go above and beyond federal requirements.

    Ken
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Thank you so much for your responses. I think everyone here concurs that having a Subaru rep on these boards does wonders for PR, and you do a wonderful job of providing info within the constraints inherent in your employment with SoA.
    IMO, the quick addressal of the side curtain/airbag issue is truly impressive to me.

    But please, its Saturday! Dont work too hard!

    :)

    ~alpha
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    subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Edmunds so much - it doesn't seem like work! Have a wonderful weekend all.

    Patti
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    tahoe7tahoe7 Member Posts: 3
    Hi all..New to the forum and am considering the 05 Outback..Am I correct in assuming the only outbacks with VDC and stabilty control are the VDC and LL bean versions??

    If so,can someone present an argument as to why someone would purchase the TurboXT limited??Is it a sportier ride??Handle better???

    Just how important is VDC and stabilty control??

    Thank You
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    ken10ken10 Member Posts: 1
    Anyone have an opinion or experience towing a boat/trailer under 2,000 lbs. with the standard 4-cylinder outback engine (165 HP)?
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    tahoe: only the VDC model has VDC. Both the bean and the VDC have the H6 engine though. I would say the turbo is for someone who wants a more lively driving experience and the features the XT offers (auto-trans shifter buttons on the steering wheel, etc...). Also, if you want 250HP and a manual transmission, the XT is the only way to go. The H6 models are auto transmission only.

    ken10: you can tow light loads adequately with the basic 2.5 motor, but I would not want to do it with 4 people in the car or in the mountains.

    Craig
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I got my July Car and Driver today. They reviewed the Outback XT and the Saab 9-2X. Both got pretty good reviews. The Outback road test was 4 pages.

    My take is that C&D liked the Outback XT a lot -- it was an extremely favorable writeup. The only downsides they listed were slow auto-trans downshifts and the all-season tires. This after raving how the steering-wheel mounted shift buttons could be used for instantaneous downshifts on demand and discussing how the all season tires were appropriate for the Outback's mission. In other words, they had to reach to come up with two very minor nitpicks. For C&D, that means they really liked the car!

    CRaig
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    understood how to put the auto in "Sport" mode. In the Sport mode, the shifts are quite quick and pretty aggresive.

    Regards,

    Dan.
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    rellomrellom Member Posts: 10
    Can someone please post the Subaru VIN decoding schematic for the 2005 model year. I know what the first 3 digits mean as well as the 9th and 10th and the 14th through the 17th. If someone could post the other numbers I would appreciate it so that I dont have to wait for the turbo sedans and wagons to arrive to figure it out.
    thanks
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Well, I drove an OB XT again today. In general, I confirmed many of my impressions - great car, fast, handles great and seats still bug me.

    Regarding the seats, I'm having problems getting the correct seating postion. I think it's a combination of the uncomfortable seat back (described before) and the lack of a telescoping steering wheel.

    But I still liked the car a LOT. Then I made my mistake...

    I drove a Legacy GT. Whoa, is that baby fast! The turbo seems to spool up MUCH faster than the OBXT. And, it handles better than the OBXT!

    So now I'm in a quandry...

    I like the looks of the XT much better and I like the high seating position (much easier on my back getting in and out). And the 2.6 inches of extra ground clearance will be very nice going up fire roads. And the XT rides a bit better and is a tiny bit quieter.

    But, the Legacy GT was GREAT fun to drive. And, it feels more locked down to the road. And, it has the same room and utility value inside as the XT.

    Oh, woe is me! Decisions, decisions... Life can be difficult at times. :-(

    Dan.

    p.s. Of course it is nice to have viable options. :-)
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    sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Hello all...

    Just wondering how much would I notice the handling difference between the 5MT with the Viscous locking center "differential" and the 5AT with the VTD. Will I get a more relaxed feel out of the VTD? Will the 5MT not feel as tossable in the corners?

    Any opinions would be great.

    Thanks
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Recall the sedans - don't build Outback sedans at all, I've been saying...

    As for the trunk, measured volume and useful space are two different things. The Forester beats the much bigger Pathfinder in Consumer Report's biggest box test, for instance. Let's see how the Legacy wagon does - probably well is my guess.

    Ken10: I've towed about 1500 lbs with my Forester, and it does fine. Braking distances are a little longer, and you slip the clutch a little more, but then again I'm still on my original brakes pads and OE clutch at 63k miles, so it handles it just fine.

    C&D got 0-60 in 7.1, but keep in mind the Legacy is lighter and the smaller tires should make it quicker. I'd say mid to high 6 second range, not bad for an automatic with AWD. Makes the Volvo XC70 and Audi allroad quattro seem downright slow...

    Dan: get the GT for you, Outback XT for the significant other. ;-)

    If I had money to burn I'd buy both right now, today even.

    GT is cheaper if you need a tie breaker...

    Sebastian: both will feel tossabble. The VC should feel familiar. I can wag the tail in snow. It is *not* relaxed by any stretch, especially not with all that power. On the infield track at Las Vegas Motor Speedway both Bob and I could power oversteer out of a fast turn, even had to counter steer a little to correct the path. The cool thing is that the VC would send power to the front axle and pull you out of the skid.

    Relaxed? Not if you're driving in that manner.

    -juice
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    ntk1ntk1 Member Posts: 57
    I'm a little surprised by the difference in 0-60 times quoted for the outback XT Auto and Manual. C+C got a time of 7.1 with the auto, Subaru are advertising 5.9 for the Manual, a 1.2 second difference seems to big (I would expect around half a second), any views ?
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Juice, it's not just the Outback sedans, but Legacy sedans too.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2004/06/04/198537.html

    Bob
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    subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    to this recall and, in each one, I heard your voice saying "no" to sedans. Funny how I carry my Edmunds crew with me through the day!

    Patti
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Dan: That's interesting that you thought the turbo performed differently in the two vehicles. Part of it could be that the two models were in different stages of break-in and therefore one was peppier than the other. The other reason could be that there is a difference in ECU programming between the two.

    Just get both, like juice wrote!

    juice, Bob: You guys got to drive both. I know that one was on the track and another another off-road, but did you sense a difference in the turbo spool up?

    Sebastian: For most driving conditions, the two will be similar. However, in very slippery conditions, you can feel power go fore and aft on the VC as it cycles through locking and unlocking. I've felt this on my current 98 Forester S driving in snow.

    Ken
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    juice, Bob: You guys got to drive both. I know that one was on the track and another another off-road, but did you sense a difference in the turbo spool up?

    No I didn't. That was an unfortunate by-product of the the way the "Ride-n-Drive" was staged. The only way we drove the GT was flat out, and the H-6 under normal conditions; so I have no idea what the GT is like to drive normally.

    Bob
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    subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    positions 1, 2, 3 = Manuf. ID -

    JF1 - FHI - Passenger Veh.
    4S3 - SIA - Pass. veh.
    4S4 - SIA - MVP

    4 = line type

    B - Legacy
    S - Forester
    G - Impreza

    5=body type

    D IMPREZA SEDAN
    L LEGACY SEDAN
    G IMPREZA SPORT WGN / FORESTER
    P LEGACY WAGON
    T BAJA
    6= Engine type

    2 2.0 LITER AWD - TURBO
    WRX
    6 2.5 LITER AWD and
    Forester TURBO
    7 2.5 LITER AWD - TURBO
    Impreza - Sti Only
    8 3.0 LITER AWD

    7= Model type, trim level


    1 LEGACY- i / OUTBACK - i / BAJA
    2 LEGACY - i LTD / OUTBACK - i LTD. / BAJA SPORT
    3 BAJA TURBO / FORESTER - X
    4 OUTBACK - R
    5 OUTBACK - R LTD. / FORESTER - XS
    6 OUTBACK - R L.L. BEAN / IMPREZA-RS PRO
    7 LEGACY - GT LTD. / IMPREZA - RS / FORESTER - L.L. BEAN
    8 LEGACY - GT / OUTBACK - GT / IMPREZA OUTBACK
    9 IMPREZA - WRX / FORESTER - XT
    0 IMPREZA - WRX STi

    8= Restraint type/GVWR classes

    5 MANUAL SEAT BELTS WITH DRIVER AND PASSENGER AIR BAGS
    6 MANUAL SEAT BELTS WITH DRIVER AND PASSENGER AIR BAGS AND "SIDE" AIR BAGS
    C M.P.V. - GVWR 4001 - 5000 LBS

    9= Check digit
    INDICATED BY 'O' THROUGH '9' OR 'X' VARIABLE

    10= Model Year
    5 - 2005

    11= plant of manufacture and trans. type

    4 SIA FULL-TIME AWD 5AT
    5 SIA SPORT SHIFT -AUTOMATIC
    6 G - FHI FULL-TIME AWD 5MT
    7 H - FULL-TIME AWD 4EAT
    -L FULL-TIME AWD 6MT

    12 through 17 - Sequential number
    100001 & AFTER BAJA
    200001 & AFTER LEGACY SEDAN AND OUTBACK SEDAN
    300001 & AFTER LEGACY STATION WAGON/OUTBACK WAGON
    500001 & AFTER IMPREZA SEDAN
    700001 & AFTER FORESTER
    800001 & AFTER IMPREZA SPORT WAGON

    I hope this helps. Sorry for the size of the post.

    Patti
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    More food for those hungry for Subie trivia. :)

    Bob
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Actually, 1.2 sec seems pretty reasonable sounding to me, but I'd really like to see both transmissions tested or quoted from the same source.

    Craig
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I completely agree- when comparing acceleration figures, I feel its best to hold constant as many variables as possible- which means comparing results from the same source (which holds procedure, equipment, etc. constant). I favor Car and Driver because of their more useful though less examined "Street Start 5-60" measure, which is a far better gauge of the performance that can be achieved by most people. Also helpful are the 30-50 and 50-70 passing tests, to measure merging and highway passing ability.

    my .02

    If I had the money, Id be in a Legacy 2.5GT Limited manual sedan tomorrow. This is one hot line of cars, and I hope Subaru's profits go through the roof.... freeing cash flow for even better designs. Can we get a successor to the SVX, please?

    ~alpha
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    rellomrellom Member Posts: 10
    Thank you Patti - for your quick response. But I am still not clear on the engine code that will be used for the Legacy GT limited sedan. Engine type 6 is the 2.5 non turbo engine code isn't it? The others you listed are for the wrx, the sti and the six cyl, or do I just not get it yet?
    thanks for your help.
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    snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    i also wonder where the water is coming from (apart from the sky!). Just stopped by a Subaru dealer. I looked closely for "rain gutters" but could not find them. Everything on the top seemed quite smooth so water should drain off quite easily. So, again, where would the water from heavy downpours accumulate and spill over when the doors are opened?
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    After a heavy downpour, I sat in an OB. When I opened the left door, about a cup of water went on my pants and left arm. Right door? Same result.

    On another OB, I noticed a heavy accumulation of water drops hanging from the rubber seal over the door. It didn't look like enough water to cause the drenching that I got. I didn't try that car, but I suspect that the water is somehow accumulating in the rubber seal and then being squeezed out when the door opens. This is speculation, but can't see any other reason for the problem.

    Regards,

    Dan.
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Forester!

    A major requirement is safety and the Forester has it in spades. And she wants something that "...looks like an SUV, not a station wagon..." (her words).

    Hmmm... I think I'll have her drive the OB. Just to get her opinion, you understand. :-)

    Regards,

    Dan.
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Ken,

    I read one or two reviews where the reviewer mentioned the difference in performance. It might be the breakin level, but I tend to think it might be an ECU programming thing.

    Also, I noticed that the OB didn't feel as stable as the GT in turns or when changing lanes quickly and braking. I wrote this off as just the OB being 2.6 inches higher. However, one reviewer noted the same thing that I felt. He thought that the OB needed better/stronger shock absorbers. Food for thought.

    Regards,

    Dan.
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    sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    " For most driving conditions, the two will be similar. However, in very slippery conditions, you can feel power go fore and aft on the VC as it cycles through locking and unlocking."

    Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Probably not a good thing. It's a strange feeling -- you can feel the front end loosen up, then the rear, then the front. While I continued to track straight, it was a strange feeling feeling the power oscillating.

    Ken
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    snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    If this is a problem, could it be fixed? Although by no means a dealbreaker, my boss (wife) would not be too amused if she got drenched on an evening out by her own car and not even an umbrella would help. Any suggestions from SOA?
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I'd like to take a look at the new Legacy/Outback rain gutter design. I had to replace the gutter on my 02 wagon when I scratched it up with lumber. It's a pretty neat design -- almost perfectly concealed. There is a regular looking rain gutter channel stamped into the sheet metal, and then the black gutter trim (which appears to be stainless steel covered with rubber/plastic) goes over that. It attaches from the underside of the door opening (with screws) and then the rubber gasket and weatherstripping for the glass opening snaps into it.

    I'd have to look at the new cars to see what the gutter trim looks like and if it could be the source of leaks.

    Craig
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    jwatsjwats Member Posts: 72
    We are planning to pick up an O5 Legacy GT 5MT limited wagon tomorrow--but nothing goes perfecly:

    1. Even though we had agreed on price and accessories, a "short throw shifter" was added at last minute which has a MSRP of $300+ and a cost of $221. It is not something I particularly want or would pay for, but it is not practical to remove it.
    a. Should I pay for all, part or none of it at their cost? I am pleased with the deal so really don't want to blow it up over a small point.
    b. Is there any risk this could depress future value?

    2. We had agreed on a dog restraint--the wire barrier that fits in back of wagon to keep dogs in their place. The dealer says this accessory is not available yet it is listed on the Subaru site as an accessory.

    http://www.subaru.com/servlet/showroom?model=LEGACY&trim=25_G- T_LTD_WAGON&command=overview

    Can anyone shed light on this?

    Thanks in advance for your help

    John
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Hmmm...

    You say they added it at the last minute? Frankly, I think that stinks. I know you don't want to blow the deal, but if it was me, I'd walk immediately. If the dealer did this, is there something else they are hiding?!? If you have another dealer fairly near, I'd wander over there.

    If you are leasing, watch out! Dealers have all sorts of tricks they can pull.

    Good luck,

    Dan.
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I'm not understanding -- did you order the car, or is it a vehicle already on the lot? Was the shifter already on the vehicle, or did the dealer add it??

    If the shifter was already on the car, then it's up to you to decide if you want that car or not, and I would not expect the dealer to remove the part. If they added it without your permission after you agreed on the vehicle, then you should make them eat the cost.

    Since the cars are so new (many accessories not yet available to dealers) and the short throw shifter is usually a port/factory installed option, I am guessing that's the way the car was built from the factory. In any event, you can tell by looking at the window sticker.

    Craig
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Hmmm...

    You say they added it at the last minute? Frankly, I think that stinks. I know you don't want to blow the deal, but if it was me, I'd walk immediately. If the dealer did this, is there something else they are hiding?!? If you have another dealer fairly near, I'd wander over there.

    If you are leasing, watch out! Dealers have all sorts of tricks they can pull.

    Good luck,

    Dan.
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    John,

    I don't believe the STS will harm resell value. What's more important is if it's an option you want. I'd push back on the dealer and have them find you a car without the STS installed. Or, have the dealer give it to you at no extra cost or replace it with a standard shifter.

    Also, STS are a trade off. For shorter throws, you'll get some amount of increased shift effort (due to the shorter lever) and added vibration and noise.

    Ken
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    I tried to order an armrest extension, and they can't find it on the dealer's computer system. I even showed them the picture. The parts guy said to try back in a few months because perhaps they just aren't yet in production. Seems kind of backward to me...cart-before-the-horse kind of thing :-)

    -Karen-
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    BTW, anyone know if it's feasible or even possible to replace the standard steering wheel with the leather-wrapped one? I've tried various wheel covers and none work well...too slippery or too think. Just wishing :-)

    -Karen-
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    Anyone know of a reputable aftermarket sunroof/moonroof installer in the Phoneix area?

    thx! -Karen-
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    michael3michael3 Member Posts: 1
    With trade in of my 2000gt limited I got a final price, tags,tax,etc. of $22,000 on a gt limited sedan with 5 speed auto. I would appreciate a comparison with prices other participants are being quoted, my 2000 has 79,000 miles, excellent condition.Is this a good deal?
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    jwatsjwats Member Posts: 72
    Craig:

    I put a deposit down on a specific car the dealer knew was allocated to them about 6 weeks ago. It had a bit more equipment than I really wanted, but the deal was good and the color was my preferred one. I received a call on saturday indicating the car had arrived but that the factory had installed the STS even though that was not listed on the equipment the car was expected to have. Of course, I could refuse the car, and will ask, but then I will probably go to the back of the line and wait for preferred color and equipment. Does anybody know if the favorable reviews have tightened pricing yet? I think my deal is excellent because the price is less than $1,000 over dealer invoice and trade in allowance was $1500-2500 over other offers--I frankly doubt they would do that deal today. but who knows?
    John
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    tinycadontinycadon Member Posts: 287
    Michael3, you need a little more info in there buddy, how can anyone do a comparison if they don't know how much you were given for your car and how much the dealer sold the new car for.
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    snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    I am with you there, Karen. It seems that car salespersons are very keen in "pushing" for a sale, but lose interest quickly over small accessories. I also find the armrest extension essential for long journeys. Hope someone can help.
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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,557
    Test drive the car with the STS to see if you even like it (better or worse). Certainly ask what they will do, but if you have a real strong deal (so they can probably sell the car for more) don't expect much, other than the STS at cost (about $220?). I wouldn't lose the deal over this, especially since it doesn't seem the dealer was playing any games, and probably won't make an extra dime off of it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    My advice to you is to test drive the car and make sure you like the short throw shifter (I have enjoyed the one on my WRX). If they don't eat the cost (and I have a hard time believing they would blow the deal over $221) maybe offer to split the $221 cost of the shifter with the dealer. That's what I would do (assuming I really wanted the car bad).

    Craig
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    bookemdanobookemdano Member Posts: 55
    Hmmm...

    You say they added it at the last minute? Frankly, I think that stinks. I know you don't want to blow the deal, but if it was me, I'd walk immediately. If the dealer did this, is there something else they are hiding?!? If you have another dealer fairly near, I'd wander over there.

    If you are leasing, watch out! Dealers have all sorts of tricks they can pull.

    Good luck,

    Dan.
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    catherine9catherine9 Member Posts: 31
    Do you think this airbag problem will be an easy one to fix, one that any local dealer can handle? Sounds like a pretty serious flaw if they don't re-install it correctly.
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    kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    Here are a few recent 2005 Legacy/Outback reviews I have discovered online. I have found them helpful in some ways, even though there are always conflicting opinions. Most are from formal publications. Some may require a login scheme to access, and others will likely contain advertisements (aren't we used to that by now ? :)

    I spent a couple of frustrating hours trying to get the forum system to post the links correctly, but many were too lengthy. Thanks to Karen S. of the Edmunds forum for suggesting the “Make a Shorter Link” website.

    Please feel free to share other resources you may have found as well -- either online or in print form. As more new models show up at dealers, there will likely be more reviews published. The more information, the easier the choice is!Enjoy! -Karen M-

    ----------------

    2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT Limited (Car and Driver, July 2004): http://makeashorterlink.com/?N17C21F78

    2005 Subaru Outback - Crossing over comes naturally – even without the help of John Edwards (TheCarConnection.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2CC52F78

    2005 Subaru Legacy -- Refining the core of the Subaru brand (The Car Connection): http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2DC21F78

    2005 Subaru Outback: Reviews & Specs (Edmunds): http://makeashorterlink.com/?G5EC21F78

    2005 Subaru Legacy: Reviews & Specs (Edmunds): http://makeashorterlink.com/?N1FC61F78

    2005 Subaru Outback (Yahoo): http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z50D21F78

    2005-2006 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT (modernracer.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?C11D51F78

    2005 Subary Legacy At-A-Glance (subaru.net): http://makeashorterlink.com/?N62D22F78

    2005 SUBARU LEGACY® 2.5 GT (subaru.net): http://makeashorterlink.com/?S23D11F78

    2005 Legacy GT Sedan and Wagon Image (subaru.net): http://makeashorterlink.com/?C44D11F78

    2005 Subaru Legacy Outback (cars101.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?U18D25F78

    2005 Subaru Legacy and Outback -- Listen to the Voices: Subaru ups the ante with more horsepower in the Legacy and Outback (AutoWeek): http://makeashorterlink.com/?U19D31F78

    2005 Subaru Legacy -- All-new design brings refinement and power (New Car Test Drive): http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z6CD22F78

    First Drive: 2005 Subaru Outback (canadiandriver.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2DD15F78

    New Car Pricing & Reviews -- 2005 Subaru Outback and Legacy (Consumer Guide): http://makeashorterlink.com/?L2FD66F78

    Paradigm Shift: First Drive: 2005 Legacy & Outback (subdriven.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?I10E21F78

    Preview: 2005 Subaru Legacy and Outback (msn.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?M31E23F78

    Road Tests: First Drive -- First Drive: 2005 Subaru Legacy and Outback -- Passing Up an SUV Has Never Felt So Good (Edmunds.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?F22E54F78

    Scruffy Subaru grows up (Toronto Star): http://makeashorterlink.com/?D53E12F78

    Subaru unveils brand new Legacy (carbc.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?E14E12F78

    Subaru Cars and SUVs (autosite.com): http://www.autosite.com/Subaru/default.html

    Subaru remains a trailblazer (autos.canada.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26E53F78

    Subaru Legacy: Weird and wonderful (autos.canada.com): http://makeashorterlink.com/?R18E15F78

    Subaru can broaden base with new sedan (San Jose Mercury News review -must log in first): http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z1AE56F78
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Karen,

    Are you THE Karen that had (or still has) the Forester links website?

    Ken
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    pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Any idea how much higher the seating position is in the new Outback, compared with the GT? I drove an OB on the weekend but havent seen a new Legacy yet. JP
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