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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I think death trap is a little melodramatic. It's true the results are disappointing, but I'm trying to analyze it rationally rather than emotionally. I've been looking at the technical data (what little there is) and it seems the structure held up well and intrusion into the passenger compartment was the least of any car tested by far. This tells me the safety cage is indeed quite strong and did what it's supposed to. The head was well protected, which is the real purpose of this test (read the fine print under description of the side impact test) This is why they use a 5th percentile female crash dummy, because small women are more likely to be hit in the head by the front of the SUV (if you look at some of the pictures of other cars tested you can see an indentation in the deformable barrier were the dummy's head hit- ouch!).

    Now, not that I'd want trauma to the chest, but it sure beats instant death or severe injury by head trauma. From what I remember of trauma victims (it's been a while) the head injured didn't make it to us in the hospital, but even the serious chest injured survived. I would guess it's the head trauma that kills most people in side impacts with SUVs.

    It is interesting that the IIHS side impact test differs so much from the NHTSA test in terms of torso and pelvic injury, if you compare the exact same car tested and ignore the head injury score. (look at the Accord without side airbags) Maybe it has to do with the size of the crash dummies? It's also odd that the rear passenger did well in the crash. The rear passenger would be subject to the same lateral force as the front passenger (although the intrusion may be less-but the picture showed damage all the way to the rear tire) I wonder if the IIHS test has been validated with any real world data? It's probably too new of a test, though. I wonder why so many cars do so poorly in this test? Maybe the insurance companies can use it to justify higher rates?

    I fully agree with what I think Craig said- it may be that you put an average sized male in the same situation and the results may be very different. This is the problem with laboratory testing- it doesn't necessarily correlate with the real world. For example, the GM minivans did very poorly in the IIHS offset crash test- yet real world data showed in accidents it had some of the lowest injury ratings.

    I would say that considering the safety engineering that went into this car, and how well it did with crash testing in Australia, that it is a safe car, and in fact far more than most of the other cars that have been tested. It did very well protecting the head, which is most important. It will be interesting to see how the NHTSA side impact testing goes. Until then, I will not overreact to the results of one test which contradicts other independent testing. It may also be that the wagon (and outback) do better in side impacts then the sedan (as the 04 legacy wagon did better than the sedan in the NHTSA side impact testing)

    If you want to talk death trap, go look at a Ford Pinto.

    tom
  • outbacker2k2outbacker2k2 Member Posts: 24
    Yeah, melodramatic is a good word for this instance. On the bright side, if everyone freaks out about the '05s it should make it easier to haggle the dealer down.

    We have on test in Aus. that shows an exceptional side impact rating and a US test showing an Average rating.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    This whole crash test hysteria blows my mind. What is the probability of any of us being involved in an accident, much less an accident that duplicates the exact conditions of these tests? Probably about the same as being struck by lightning or winning the Powerball lottery. If you are that worried about being injured in a car accident, buy a Hummer or an Excursion.

    I am going to unsubscribe to this group until you get back to talking about the Suburu driving/ownership experience instead of the hypothetical Suburu crash experience.
  • roopower2roopower2 Member Posts: 13
    While pondering the side-crash test results on the new Legacy (which I hope to purchase in 2-3 years), I decided to drive my 1981 Subaru BRAT to work today. This vehicle has no internal door braces which were required in 1981 for cars, but not trucks. Airbags-nope. Do I worry? Not really, at least it will be quick!
    John
  • snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    Interesting to note that, according to Consumer Reports, the 2004 Legacy/Outback had a IIHS test rating of "Good"- top ranking. Yet, this year, the same agency rated the 2005 Legacy "Marginal" - 2 ranks down and just above "Poor". So what gives? I thought we were supposed to get a better and safer car in 2005. No?! (Confounded) Snowbird.
  • roopower2roopower2 Member Posts: 13
    While pondering the side-crash test results on the new Legacy (which I hope to purchase in 2-3 years), I decided to drive my 1981 Subaru BRAT to work today. This vehicle has no internal door braces which were required in 1981 for cars, but not trucks. Airbags-nope. Do I worry? Not really, at least it will be quick!
    John
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    So I did the right thing by sticking with the Forester? ;-)
  • outbacker2k2outbacker2k2 Member Posts: 24
    Only if you like the Forester better then the Legacy. The Legacy is NOT an unsafe car by any stretch. Looking at the numbers and ratings, most of the cars tested by IIHS this round got "Poor" scores across the board. One telling sign, the deformation from the impact does not actually "hit" the driver in the legacy as it does on most of the cars in that test. My plans to buy an '05 GT have not changed at all. If anything this panic over above average, for this test, scores will just lower demand and make it easier for me to get a better deal :)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    One major flaw in all the tests is that they do not take enough data points to have a statistically valid sample. It may be that the variation amongst many cars of the same type is low, but I have not seen any indication that they test enough cars to even come to that conclusion. I'd be very curious to know how much the results change from car to car if, say, 25 Legacys were tested.

    First, who is going to fund the actual crashing of 25 vehicles?? In reality, the variance in results should be extremely low - these are highly engineered, consistently manufactured products with very tight tolerances. The variability from vehicle to vehicle should be nil or close to it. Now it's possibile that IIHS got a bad unit twice, but I doubt it.

    It's hard to make valid conclusions based on very limited data when trying to predict the performance of any machine under a wide range of conditions.

    Again who's going to pay to test every possible scenario? The IIHS perfoms a consistent test in a consistent environment for everyone. No variability delivers results that can be compared.

    In reality, the Legacy should still be an extremely safe automobile for the majority of the population. Keep in mind that the IIHS is funded by INSURANCE COMPANIES. They have a vested interest in determining what they consider a safe automobile.

    Lastly, I was under the impression that many manufacturers are now conducting virtual crash tests using computer simulation during the design phase. These results should not be a total suprise anymore or there's some software tweaking to be done.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Only if you like the Forester better then the Legacy. The Legacy is NOT an unsafe car by any stretch.

    Oh I know, I probably should've used a ;-) emoticon in the last message. (There, fixed it. ;-))
  • doug1doug1 Member Posts: 37
    I think we almost certainly did get a safer car for 2005. With the previous generation Legacies, the IIHS only used a frontal offset crash, in which the Legacy was a Best Pick. For 2005, the Legacy is again a Best Pick in such crashes. Looking at the technical data, the 2005 did even better in the frontal offset crash than the 2004. The IIHS has only tested a few cars for side impacts, and most do poorly. However, I too am disappointed with the results for the 2005s. I expected better, and Subaru should have done better. It appears the thorax airbag is not doing its job.

    There seems to be a lot of confusion over the differences between the NHTSA, ANCAP (Australia), and IIHS side tests. It seems to me that the biggest difference is the size and shape of the impact sled. The IIHS sled is both higher off the ground and has a greater top to bottom dimension in order to simulate an SUV. In contrast, the NHTSA and ANCAP tests are designed to simulate a car. The sleds impact the test vehicle lower in the body. Additionally, the sizes of the dummies differ significantly. ANCAP (and I believe NHTSA) uses a 50th percentile adult. IIHS uses a 5th percentile female.

    I think it's unlikely that IIHS will ever test the Outback, as they apparently view it as essentially the same as the Legacy. They've never tested an Outback previously. However, with side impacts I suspect there could be differences. In looking at the 2004 NHTSA tests, the Legacy sedan received 3 stars. The Legacy wagon got 4 stars. The Outback wagon was awarded 5 stars. Apparently the ride height difference helped when being impacted by a car, even without any side airbags. It will be interesting to see the 2005 NHTSA results, as well as the EURONCAP results from Europe.

    While I've probably been just as disappointed as many of the rest of you, I think it is important to remember that we're dealing with probabilities and a continuum of possibilities. It seems very possible that the 2005s will do well against cars in side impacts, but not so well against SUVs, at least at these test speeds. But about half or more of the vehicles on the road are still cars rather than trucks or SUVs. Additionally, given that the 2005s do extremely well in a frontal impact, perhaps they could protect their passengers in such a crash at even higher speeds, while possibly still providing some side impact protection at speeds lower than used in the IIHS test.

    Perhaps I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself, but I think it's important to look at risk from a broader perspective. If one walks in a city or rides a bike, they are facing far more risk than in most cars, let alone the 2005 Legacy. Moreover, the 2005s are certainly more safe than cars such as my 1996 Legacy. Without a doubt, I would like the 2005s to do better, and they should. But driving a 2005 probably wouldn't raise my global or calendar-year exposure to various risks much over driving a new Accord or Camry. That is certainly not to say that Subaru doesn't need to do better though. I certainly expect them to make changes.

    Doug
  • gentlegentle Member Posts: 7
    Sorry about the "death trap" comment. I don't post all that regularly and I forget that sarcasm doesn't play well in the unskilled written word.

    If I really felt the car was dangerous, I wouldn't haul my 6 month old around in it. I know that you can't control everything, but I think that alert, defensive driving (even in a fairly aggressive car) is a better way to remain injury free then to drive on the edge and hope for the car to bail you out when you screw up.

    That said, I'll pass on the Ford Pinto.

    drew
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Craig: You echoed my engineering thoughts exactly.

    Snowbird: The reason for the change is that the IIHS added an all new second side-impact simulation to their test this year.

    Ken
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I've been away for a few days, it was good getting back in my car this morning- It's been almost a month since I bought it and I am still eager to drive it everyday!

    Ken- I'm jealous- I'm still a ways from 1000 miles (I never thought I'd wish I had a longer commute!) Do you think 900 is enough? How about 8? 7? ;-)

    Drew- You'll notice they crash tested a 2.5i. With a GT you'd have avoided being hit! ;-)

    Does anyone know if you can adjust the position of the gas and brake pedals? They're a little far apart for me to heel toe easily. Maybe it's just practice and maybe it's because I'm still not aggressively driving, but it seems the gas pedal is too low or the brake pedal too high. Lateral distance seems ok. Anyone else with a MT, or who have driven the MT, have any thoughts or comments? I looked at the pedals of my friends WRX and they seemed more level with each other.

    I got a call from Subaru saying they are sending my free maintenance coupons!

    tom
  • kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    Sorry to disrupt a terrific heated discussion, but on a lighter "note"...

    I bought a new 40GB Click Wheel iPod at the Apple Store earlier this week. I looked at three different FM options, and after conferring with several of the Apple folks finally settled on the DLO TransPod FM transmitter. It has the charger, stand and transmitter all-in-one. I plugged my stand into the cigarette lighter, used various-shaped adapters (all come with the TransPod), I rigged it up so that I can reach and read it while I am driving (don't try this at home) I can also unplug it all and stow it away where no one can see it.

    My Apple salesman said this unit has much better sound quality than the Belkin or Griffin models (I wouldn't know for sure) and that it was the unit he used in his car. He showed me several different ways to hook it up - very versatile. You can also use the charger without the stand, if you like.

    I have found that the sound quality will vary from song to song, but generally acceptable levels on most everything. The EQ settings on the iPod really help.

    Here are a couple of quick pictures I took (a little blurry...sorry) to give you an idea.

    -KarenM-
    http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

    image

    image
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Well, I don't know the particulars of that car, but my guess is that Saab would have added some extra safety engineering to whatever they got from Subaru.

    Take the Mazda 3 and Volvo S40 for example. Same platform, but Volvo put a lot of effort into the S40 with a goal to make it at least as safe as the S80. They totally re-engineered the structure, and used exotic materials and techniques in several places. The Volvo also weights about 400 lbs more than the supposedly "equivalent" Mazda 3. They tested a side-impact with a 4000 Lbs XC90 and the S40 fared very well.

    Does that mean it would do well in the IIHS test? I don't know, but I'm sure it would do well in a real life situation. I know which of the two (Mazda/Volvo) I'd prefer to be in if I had a severe crash.
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    Thanks for the info, folks. luck11--I'll look for FOLEX and had not hurt of it before.

    Craig--thanks for the picture link--lookin'good. I also discovered a decent picture inside the Outback hard copy brochure.

    Unfortunately, since I'm leaning to the 2.5i, it appears I would not have the choice of champagne gold *and* dark interior (not available), so the choice becomes even more critical and would require a switch to a different exterior color if I decided to go dark.
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    There's a new Subaru/Lance Armstrong commercial airing in our area that more or less focuses on the Outback's "dual" personality (refined & sporting) in which people kind of morph into two different types of the same person (You have to see it). If it comes on, check the quick visual of the instrument panel (which I Tivoed and replayed) where the "gear number" for the Sportshift is displayed, and indicates an "8"?????
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I replied over at Legacysti.com, but congrats on your 4G purchase!

    The DLO stand is nice. If I knew I was going FM from the get-go, I probably would have purchased that setup.

    How do you like the 4G? Which EQ settings do you use for FM? I find that "Flat" sounds a little thin, but some of the other EQs distort the sound too much.

    Ken
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Nice setup!

    Craig
  • aussie outbackaussie outback Member Posts: 26
    We don't get that commercial in Oz, but maybe it is because Lance Armstrong is used to having 21 gears, so they built him a special Outback just to suit ;-)

    Given the focus on crash-testing, is it time for someone to make a joke about Lance Armstrong's propensity to crash, and his endorsement of an Outback?!

    - Aussie Outback
  • safetyfirstsafetyfirst Member Posts: 14
    Does anyone know when Subaru will have these available? I actually purchased them, but they weren't ready for delivery, and will be added on whenever Subaru makes them available.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Which ones are you talking about? I saw numerous GT wagons on lots with the optional crossbars. They are made by Mont Blanc, and looked like junk. Save your money and order towers/crossbars from Yakima. They have a nice setup that fits the GT wagon perfectly, and they are available now. They also offer a locking capability which the Mont Blanc racks lack.

    The Outback comes with crossbars, but again, Yakima offers a solution that is a lot better. I have a Yakima setup that I have used on my last two Outback wagons and some previous cars, and it fits the 05 too. I am thinking about ordering a new rack system, as the parts are starting to look old (some of my Yakima rack components date back to the 1980s!).

    Craig
  • safetyfirstsafetyfirst Member Posts: 14
    It's too late for that. I ordered the Subaru cross bars that come as an option on the regular Legacy 2.5i.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If they are not available for delivery, I think you can cancel the order. Seriously, I would not get those Mont Blanc crossbars for the Legacy, it would be a waste of money. Even the factory crossbars that come on the Outbacks are much better quality. When I was looking at the Mont Blanc crossbars, an end cap fell off and I could see the rack crossbar rusting underneath. The tower did not look very good either.

    Craig
  • outbacker2k2outbacker2k2 Member Posts: 24
    Yakima makes the roof rack systems for the Outback and, until this year, the legacy. The Yakima EasyRider set is what you want for the legacy wagon. For you outbackers out there, the Yakima Low Rider is your ticket. Subaru uses the much older Yakima Double Cross as their Outback "Factory" rack.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "Ordered" a Regal Blue Legacy Sedan 2.5i 4EAT w/ the Pop. Equip Group, Rear Spoiler, Emissions regs (required, I think in my area), and Wheel Locks.

    $1000 deposit, invoice pricing (under VIP through my employer), and the dealer agreed to pay the last month of the leased vehicle that the Legacy will be replacing- very nice, we didnt even ask for that! (We did ask, however, that a separate check be issued for that amount, instead of the amount being netted against the price of the vehicle, that way we can be sure that we are truly getting invoice (plus destination)). Subaru also offered to beat any loan financing amount offered to us, and right now, it looks like we'll be getting 5.09%, which is fairly decent w/o incentives, IMO.

    Very excited.

    FWIW, Its actually not going to be a true "order" unless it has to be- we told the dealer that if he can find, in the region, an identical Legacy (NO EXCEPTIONS) to the one described above, we'd take it when he could get it, which is why he offerd to pay the last month on the lease (to mitigate our overlap). If the vehicle must be ordered, and it comes in the 40-70 days that we were told Subaru specifies for an order, we agreed to forgo the dealer writing us a payment for the last month of the lease, since there wont be appreciable overlap.

    ~alpha
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Awesome color. Good luck with the wait!

    Craig
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Congrats, alpha!

    If the dealer needs to locate one, make sure it's not one that's been test driven extensively. With an "ordered" vehicle, you're assured you'll be the first customer to drive it.

    Ken
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Whew! Finally caught up with all the posts in here.

    I thought I'd add that the EZ Rider Towers for the new low-profile rails on the Legacy wagons DO NOT LOCK. Sure all the accessories will lock to the crossbars but unfortunately the towers will not lock to the crossbars.

    I know this for a fact as I have a set I special ordered from REI sitting in my garage still waiting for me to wash, claybar and Klasse AIO my new wagon. Yes, Ken, you're way more OCD than I am. ;-)

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Congrats Alpha! Sounds like it will be nice. Enjoy.

    Mark
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Funny - the square bars for the Forester are made by MontBlanc and they lock. They also work really well (very sturdy), but I don't leave them on full time since I don't need to haul stuff that often. In fact I've even left the factory racks off to cut down on the noise. Okay, it looks strange, but it really cuts down on he noise.

    Does sound like the Yakima's might be the way to go for the wife's 03 OBW.

    I know its early, but I'm really hoping they put a nav system in the 06's, or that someone comes up with a drop in solution for the 05's. That's the biggest missing link in the equation for me to purchase one. The other thing I don't like is the integrated center console - Ford/Mercury took a huge amount of heat for this when they did it in the Sable/Taurus line because if you don't like the factory sound system, you're going to lighten your wallet a lot getting a new system that fits.

    The last concern I have is the ability of the dealers to support the car. On a previous rant/post I highlighted the amount of insult my vehicle's suffered at the dealer, and can see it being a problem with the OBW-XT as well. Mechanically I think I know more about a lot of our Forester's and OBW's systems than the dealer does. Bad enough on a 23k and 28k car, but really scary on an over 30k vehicle.

    Another 0.02

    Larry
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    As OBS owners, we're strongly considering the Outback for more room and basically cross-shopping it against the Highlander. A turbo 2.5 looks like a longshot at this point because of cost difference, mileage concerns, and spouse's environmental inclinations. As the alpha male, I had serious concerns about the base engine's power--particularly with our preferred EAT-- and decided, since it's a decison we have to live with for a long while, to rent a base Outback 2.5i from Hertz for a couple of days and put it through our routine.

    Not unexpectedly, I did not find the base 2.5 to have -more- "oomph" than needed, particularly from a standing stop, but I was pleasantly surprised that the car is not obviously underpowered either, particularly on the highway. The Sportshift, which I initially dismissed as kind of a gimmick, is extremely helpful in ironing out any hesitation in the standard EAT if one needs to "punch it" at some point.

    I intentionally drove on a few two lane blacktops in our area where passing can be occasionally hairy, and, while I'm sure the turbo would be preferable, I was able to execute fairly rapid passing using the Sportshift. I came away from the rental far less concerned with power/weight/acceleration issues than I anticipated.

    Other quick impressions for fence sitters (YMMV):

    1) Fit and finish--particularly for a first year model--was first rate. I passed on the '04 Forester because of some "squeek and rattle" issues, but could not detect any here on a rental with 2300 on the ODO.

    2) Base stereo was also considerably better than I expected and I'm fussy. I thought it sounded best with a slight fade to the rear speakers, and a bit less bass.

    3) Jury's still out on the seats. Although I found them improved over other Subies, I still thought the cloth was a bit hard. Maybe it's me.

    3) Minor annoyances--seat belt chime and lack of access with key through rear gate, which I found pretty odd. Imagine having a dead battery and needing to get at the rear spare.

    In any event, overall a very positive experience, and I'd recommended anyone who wants more than a test drive to try your Hertz outlet. If the transmission does "learn" from one's driving, the Hertz cars will be pretty confused though. :)
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    That's disappointing news on the Yakima towers. So that particular model doesn't use the standard lock cores from other Yakima racks?

    Hmmmm. I don't know if I would like to keep my bike on my rack if the towers aren't secure. I know for a fact that it saved my bike once. I had parked somewhere with my bike up top and when I got back, the thumb levers for the towers were up. Obviously someone tinkering with the rack while I was away!

    Ken
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    That is surprising that the EasyRider towers do not take SKS cores. I also think locks are important (if not to protect the gear on the rack, to protect the rack system itself, which can get expensive).

    My DoubleCross towers work on the new OB racks, which is good for me, and they lock!

    Lumbar: there is an inside release for the liftgate which can be used in emergencies. I forgot where it's located, but it was mentioned in the owner's manual when I scanned through it briefly.

    Craig
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Alpha- congrats! Nice color. I probably would have taken one in that color if the dealer had one.

    Lumbar- I agree, I think the non-turbo engine is quite adequate. It's just not as fun. Better gas mileage though (on regular too)

    As for the Nav option, it wasn't a big deal for me. It would be nice to have, but I have a portable Garmin 2610, which does very well and has some key advantages:

    1. It's half the price or less! (about $750 if you look hard)
    2. It's got a remote (good for the passenger- I wouldn't recommend playing with it while driving!)
    3. It's transportable from car to car. Very useful if you travel and rent cars and don't know how to get around.
    4. You can program a route (for vacation) in your Mac at home (ok, PC too) and load it into the Nav.

    I think one of the car mags this month has an article on portable Navs and found they work quite well. The only disadvantage is the lack of dead reckoning- if you go into a tunnel or lose a satellite your GPS will stop working, but built in systems use the odometer and compass to figure out (for a short while) where you are. Now, it doesn't matter if you are in a tunnel, but if you are in the city you can lose the sat from time to time.

    tom
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    When the 05 Leg came out, I was originally disappointed to hear that NAV and HIDs weren't offered.

    But thinking about 80% of my usage (commuting) I woudn't need NAV and as tom writes, it would be a better investment for me if I just bought a portable unit.

    As for HIDs, my last drive at night completely erased any want of HIDs. The stock lights are excellent.

    Ken
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I had thought about upgrading to the 2610 but decided to keep the SPIII.
    Reason, it can be battery operated outside the vehicle and I found that to be very convenient when venturing out on foot in a vactioning town/city not having to memorize the lefts or rights at which corner to get to where you last left the car.

    -Dave
  • rsq798rsq798 Member Posts: 35
    Yeah, but are they as bling??? J/k, if all I wanted was status, I would have bought a BMW or Audi. I agree with you totally. The stock lights are truly more than amply bright, and while NAV would be truly useful a couple times a year, a couple thousand is a lot to pay for those couple times, however bling. In fact, even the portable ones are still not worth the investment for me.

    Quick note on fuel economy - last week, I gassed up right before getting on the highway for a 20 mile jaunt through moderate traffic at 70mph average and got 26.7 mpg ave before getting off! Not my usual driving style, true (23.7 mpg ave), but an indication of what's possible. I have a GT with 2500 miles and no oil change.
  • rsorganizersorganize Member Posts: 131
    It's nice to see that folks appear to have moved on from the angst of the IIHS test results. Just returned from another 180 mi.- mostly highway - trip (I'm over 3000 mi. total, in my first month) and I was constantly flashing on just what a terrific ride my 3.0 VDC wagon really is. This is really a driver's car - fast/quick, quiet and incredibly responsive handling. Still not a rattle or shake and the driver 'fit' seems to enhance the whole experience. Never once did I think about my 'vulnerability' to a side crash (to the contrary, I still feel pretty safe and secure). What I thought about - a lot - as, I whizzed by the traffic on the Mass Pike, heading west, was the pleasure of the ride. With all due respect to owners of '04 and older OBs, the whole experience seems like a great upgrade over earlier versions. I cannot imagine that anyone driving a 3.0, OB-XT or Legacy GT will come away with anything but enthusiasm and appreciation for the engineering and experience. I guess we'll see how the crash-test controversy plays out, but - in the meantime - feels pretty darn good to be owning/driving one of these cars.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Alpha - Congrats on the i! I like that color as well, but went with silver for pure low maintenance reasons. Looking forward to your further impressions as you rack up the miles.

    As for my current mpg...I'm over 2500 miles now and the computer shows 23.4 overall. I've left one of the trip computers to reflect the odometer. I've calculated 22.74 overall average of all the tanks I've gone through. My best tank has been 24.18 and that had quite a bit of highway miles.

    I'm continually impressed with how quiet the ride is. My wife was driving one day and we're making our way onto the freeway and she says, "Oooops!". I ask what happened and she says "Well I was just going 70 in 3rd!" I didn't notice either. ;-)

    I'm also quite impressed with how quickly the AC gets the interior cooled down. Very nice considering how warm it's been here in the PNW this summer. I agree with Ken on the lights. I thought the lack of HID's would be a problem, but so far I'm very impressed with the lights.

    I'm also quite impressed with the stereo. It sounds great to me. And I don't know what everyone is so worried about as there is a replacement face plate that will allow you to change it out. I don't know if it's available here yet but I'm sure it will be. For now I've only seen it on the JDM Subaru accessories site.

    I do have a couple (very minor) nit picks. One is that blue cord from the subwoofer. Every time I look down and see it I wonder if maybe I could just take a razor blade and cut the carpet underneath it and tuck it through. I'll likely ask the dealership if they can get that under the carpet for me. The other is a very small rattle that comes out of hiding on only the roughest of freeway stretches here in the Seattle area. I'm not to concerned about this though as these stretches are VERY rough. Tom will know what I'm talking about (I-5 through North Seattle into Lynnwood both ways).

    Other thoughts:
    I will be interested in what can be done to hardwire an iPod into the system though. I'll keep tabs on how Ken, Karen and Craig do with their FM modulators, but I'd rather not go that route. I'm fortunate I guess in that I'm not totally addicted to my iPod yet. ;-)

    The manual tranny isn't the smoothest. I'm hoping it gets easier as it gets worn in, but I've ground 2nd (and maybe 3rd) a couple times when trying to get on it. I hate that sound! It's worse than fingernails on a chalkboard! It's likely my poor skills. I've always driven manual tranny cars but I don't profess to be an expert by any means.

    I too am a bit disappointed in Yakima not integrated the SKS lockable cores into these towers. That's part of the reason I haven't put them on yet. I'm hoping they'll maybe come up with a lockable alternative.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    BTW, I should've mentioned that in a combination of city/highway w/some fairly fast driving we averaged about 28.5 mph by the computer and hit 30 after a road trip. YMMV literally.
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Ian- I know that stretch all too well. All the roads by my house are very coarse also. I have two very faint rattles, not noticeable if you're listening to the stereo. One is in the driver's side B- pillar- it improved when the dealer re-installed that piece of moulding. It's on and off. There's another one on the passenger's side, but I can't quite place it. My guess is it's in the same B pillar on that side, but since I don't ride over there it's hard to place it. I'm going to put a few thousand miles on the car and then have my dealer look at them. This car is very solidly built- these roads put tons of squeaks and rattles in my Passat and even my Sequoia used to rattle over these roads.
    Ian, I did the same thing on the freeway, except 2nd gear. I looked down at my tach and noticed I was up at 5000 (oops!). Sometimes I think this car is too quiet. I haven't had problems with my shifter- as long as I'm not forcing it through the gates. I'll tell you more after I break 1000. Still considering the short shifter (but the techs at my Subaru dealership don't like it- difficult to shift)

    Ken- once again, I agree about the headlights. They are plenty bright for spirited driving at night. One of my favorite things about this car is being subtle. If I wanted to stand out I would have bought an M5. HIDs make you stand out and are just plain annoying to other drivers (ever get Hi beamed? You can't see a thing!)

    How much weight can you put on these racks? I would like to put my bikes and maybe a rooftop box from time to time.

    tom
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    It's nice to see that folks appear to have moved on from the angst of the IIHS test results

    i am not past the angst. the test results speak for themselves. subaru even had a second chance.

    i dont know what to add to the discussion so my posts on this have stopped but my angst lives on.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    No rattles in my LGT (yet--knock on wood). Maybe just a hint of the center console panels rubbing against each other. I was so used to hearing rattles in my 98 Forester that I catch myself holding my breath when I go over washboards! It's a solid vehicle, no doubt. Also, all the doors and gates close with a nice solid "thunk".

    If you can identify the panel, try putting a tiny amount of lithium grease on the fasteners to see if that reduces any friction related noise.

    Ken
  • avizivaviziv Member Posts: 29
    Tom - You asked about the weight limit on the racks. I'm not sure about the Yakima but I asked Thule specifically about their system for the '05 OB and they told me 165lbs. This is substantial since it allows me to carry two sea kayaks - something many other cars, including SUV's cannot handle.

    Hope this helps,
    Avi
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    for the well wishes, I will have a LOT more to say once the vehicle arrives.

    happy motoring,
    ~alpha
  • avizivaviziv Member Posts: 29
    Hi,

    The OB's have many well known qualities and so I'm considering getting one soon. I need a car that can go off road occasionally, deal with snow and also carry two kayaks on it's roof. This seems a good fit. However, I wonder what you out there think of this car for carrying families in it? I need to carry a 7 and 4 years old kids in the back seat. We travel 2-3 hours several times a month. I know it's a very subjective question, but does your family feel cramped in there? Have you been able to fit a person in the middle between a car seat and a small booster seat? I know this car is for "5 passengers" but car seats limit the space for a 5th passenger - no? Any personal experience here would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Avi
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    thanks for the info Avi. I'll probably get a set when they come out for my sedan.

    I'll trade you some info back.

    I have two boys- 8 and 10, and there's plenty of space for the four of us. But since both of my kids ride in booster seats- it is unpleasant for an adult to be between them for very long, although certainly doable if that adult is thin (and really likes your kids! ;-)! )

    The OB will definitely handle everything else you want out of the car. It all depends on what you want or need. To get significantly more space you'd need to get a minivan or a large SUV. I traded in a Sequoia for my legacy GT. I thought the SUV would be great for everything I did- camping, hiking, skiing- but in reality I was able to do the same things with my minivan- only more comfortably and economically (13mpg is no fun). It also meant living with a large car 100% of the time, to use it's capability 5% of the time. And parking a full sized SUV in my underground parking lot at work was a major pain! So I downsized, have a lot more fun driving, still have plenty of room for my family, and all of my costs have gone down significantly (gas, insurance, car payments, and maintenance). And I still have a minivan for the times I need a lot of space.

    By the way, I don't know how hard it is to load kayaks, but loading stuff on the roof of my SUV was a lot of work!

    Hope this helps ;-)!

    tom
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