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Comments
-Ian
The only new Subaru at LA is the Saaburu. Saab had the 9-2X on display. It has new front hood and air splitter, 17" wheels, silver color and SnowBoard equipment.
Future Models is the first place I'll post tomorrow.
-juice
http://www.need-desire.com/main.html
From the look of the press release, there is no HID (although there is one picture that looks like it has HID). Any one know if they are going to put HID in???
As for the wiper blade on the sedan, my bet would be that they forgot to photoshop those off. The sedans in Japan come with them. If you go to www.subdriven.com and click through the NAIAS coverage to their 2005 Legacy GT Galery you won't see a blade on the rear sedan window.
-Ian
http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/
Are there any Subaru owner originated from a Honda Accord camp? Do you think it was a smart move? I want a AWD sedan for better handling in the snow. All comments welcome.
TIA
Pete
2) When will they be arriving in showrooms?
I actually came to Subaru by default following the demise of the Accord wagon, whilst I loved my Accords and I generally found them to be bulletproof, I find that the GT is more refined in terms of roadnoise, is more fun to drive and the AWD is incomparable.
While this is probably largely perception, the GT feels to be a safer car, you just get that feeling when you sit in it, it just feels more planted and a more substantial vehicle overall.
After almost 3 years of ownership this car still puts a smile on my face every time I get into it, and I love it as much today as the day I got it, I will be perfectly happy to drive this car for many more years.
Cheers Pat.
Although the Accord generally handles well for a Japanese car - it's good in snow - it still doesn't come close to the AWD's planted feel. I am finding that once you go AWD, you never go back. I never realized how much the Accord (or any 2WD car) slips in rain until I drove an AWD car for a couple years. I'm not talking about sliding out in a turn - I'm talking about a random, constant slippage sideways/back/forth while going 55-75 mph on a straight highway (w/ excellent tires). It's so slight you would never feel it until you get used to the AWD feel. At times there is only 1 drive wheel connected to the pavement - and sometimes, none!
The Accord is also a tinny car to me - the 96 at least. And although they have improved the car and crash stats from the 96 I have , Subaru seems to make a beefer, safer car... And w/ the Detroit show showing more concepts looking like tanks, the hummer trend is unfortunately here to stay.
I've resigned myself to arming my family when it comes to my purchase this year... Excellent crash stats all around and AWD on the ground.
Now if there was an AWD Accord....
Ralph
Cheers Pat.
Ralph
Although I had quite a few problems with the Outback during the 55K miles I owned it, my WRX has been flawless during its first 13k miles and I expect it to hold up as well as any of my Hondas. To me, the WRX feels like it's put together better than my Outback, but that's hard to quantify.
Having said that, we just bought a 2004 Accord EX-L that is in another league all together in terms of quality feel inside and out. Everything in the 04 Accord moves with a precision feel and has an expensive look to it. Definitely a step above my Subarus in terms of fit and finish. The FWD Accord is fine in most cases, especially since we also have the WRX for trips to the snow, but I'm not sure it would suffice as our only car. Having owned AWD Subies since 2001, I don't think I could be without it for those trips over I80 when it's snowing. It's so reassuring to have all 4 wheels clawing for traction in crappy weather, it makes me forget about all the things that Honda does better.
Brian
Depends on which model you want. The NA (naturally aspirated or non-turbo) Legacy 2.5i is starting production in March so should hit showrooms in May with the Outback following in June and the Legacy 2.5GT (with turbo) in July.
-Ian
My comments:
- Exterior fit and finish is better on the Accord. For example, the Legacy's driver door doesn't close quite right (It requires some muscle and I can hear the door scraping on the latch if I close it really slow - If you're used to GM; you won't notice anything wrong.)
- Accord has a much stiffer ride (almost uncomfortable); the Legacy has a better ride (and still handles well)
- Accord's steering is a little too over-assisted; Legacy's is weighted better (best road feel of any car I've driven).
- Accord's 200 HP Automatic 3.0 V6 got better gas mileage (29.5 mpg) on highway vs. Legacy's 5 spd manual 2.5 (27.5 mpg). The reason is the 5 spd is geared way too low for normal highway driving. The 2.5 revs at 3,000 at 70 MPH vs. the Accord's ~2,700 at 70 MPH. I don't recommend buying a manual transmission Subaru until they add an extra gear (or figure out how to make it geared higher).
- FWD Accord slipped and slid in bad weather (and torque-steered under hard acceleration in dry weather). Legacy's 2.5 doesn't have enough torque to torque-steer, but it's grip in rain and snow is uncanny. It's unstoppable in a foot of snow. The AWD makes all the difference in the world in snow and ice.
Overall I'm glad I bought the Subaru - it came in very handy in the last snow storms here in the Northeast. It's actually a pleasure to drive in the snow. I'll never own another FWD car again. The only regret I have is getting the ridiculously low-geared manual transmission (next time I'll test drive at highway speeds before buying) - I'll put up with the '04 for a few more months until the '05s come out.
It certainly does. You have the manual, so you can't put it into front drive only mode like I can with the auto, but if only the front wheels were pulling, there'd be some torque steer. The rear wheels get power too quickly and keep the car on the straight and narrow for you to notice any torque steer. Another beauty of AWD!
I gave it some though and realised that the extended front and rear bumpers resulted in a slightly GM looking car(seen on Subdriven.com). Models sent to the rest of the world have a crisper look.
I hope they fix that for future models.
Mutsur
Glad to know someone else out there is not so impressed by the looks of the new Lagacy/Outback. I have become increasingly dismayed by SoA's movement away from its independent heritage. One example is the limited variety of manual transmission vehicles available to the American public (even in comparison to what's offered in Canada). Pandering to marketing-induced, cookie-cutter tastes. And the new Legacy Wagon/Outback looks awful--like an old Saturn. That said, they're still the best cars out there for the money, mechanically speaking.
The Mudge
No wipers on sedans, that's a features saved for Japanese models.
Prices have not been announced yet, but Cars.com guessed $21k for a base Legacy all the way up to $30k for a loaded Outback.
I heard production will start in March for the Legacy 2.5i, April for the Outback, and May for the 2.5 GT (turbo).
Folks, there is LOADS of information in Subaru Crew Future Models, more than you could ever want to know about it. About 100 photos, too. We just got back from the Detroit show.
Overall, it is a *substantial* upgrade from the current model. 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, huge moonroof, 5 speed Sportshift on the GT turbos, 17" rims standard, vented rear disc brakes, floating calipers, four piston front calipers, I could go on for an hour, but check Future Models because I listed the 80 or so improvements there.
-juice
they really are trying to keep costs down on this model.
It's late, I need sleep!
-juice
This is not always the easiest site to navigate. I doubt I am the only one having problems finding it.
sweet_subie "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" Jan 10, 2004 12:43am!make=Subaru&model=All&ed_makeindex=.ee9956a
Scroll back a hundred or so posts.
Subaru site navigation hint:
When I log on to Edmunds Town Hall discussions, I select Subaru, then show all threads. I also have my Edmunds preferences set to show the most recent postings first.
You will end up with 9 pages of threads. From around pages 4 - 9, they're all archived (read only) threads. Once you read pages 1-4 (all the active threads), you will find (as long as you stay on top of things) that you will spend most, if not all your time on page 1. It's really very easy, again, if you stay on top of things.
I also book-mark the Edmunds Subaru all page, so I don't have to go to Edmunds Home, etc. When I log on the Internet, I go directly to this bookmark.
If you set your Edmunds site up this way, (as opposed to doing subscriptions), any new thread that is added to this site, that's Subaru-related, will automatically show up.
Bob
There is also an advanced search feature. Its kind of hidden under the keyword search, but if youre in a discussion and click on that little link under "Search by Keyword," you get some options to search for words or phrases within that discussion. I tend to use it when someone posts about a problem with their vehicle that I'm sure I've seen covered before but can't remember when. Ha, old age!
We'll all be happy to help you find your way around here, John.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
People forget that what is obvious to them because they use it all the time is not obvious to those of us who don't use it at all!
Thanks (and I have posted a few times on Edmunds before, tee hee).
Now, anybody KNOW if we will be able to get a 6 in the Legacy, or are they going to push us into the Outback in the USA still?
Bob
-Ian
As for the Subaru topics, usually newbies roam around here, but regulars and long-term members join the Subaru Crew threads.
I check them all, but you'll find more resources where the regulars are, naturally.
-juice
Bob
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/13/arts/13SUBA.html?hp
"Subaru will raise the Outback's height from a minimum of 7.3 inches to as much as 8.7 inches next year, and will make other adjustments, like altering the position of the rear bumper, to meet light truck specifications."
This was done to accommodate the new turbo models. Classifying the outbacks this way allows Subaru to meet overall fleet fuel economy requirements.
I wonder what the effect is on safety and on-road performance. My initial thought is mostly neutral on this change. It's disappointing Subaru has to be a leader in subjegating the intent of fuel economy regulations (especially considering its market). I would guess for most people who aren't Subaru's current buyers - the extra clearance is a positive.
At least SofA goes on the record and comes clean on their intent.
I would not be surprised if a cottage industry will arise within dealerships of lowering new Outbacks once the sale is made.
--K9Leader
2000 OBW Ltd, 44K miles and just the right ground clearance, thank you!
Bob
For me the extra clearance will be a plus--more offroading capability.
If you don't want clearance, then why not get a Legacy?
Eric
It answers a lot of your questions.
I also have concerns with stability at 8.7 inches. I'm considering the 2005 H6 Outback sedan and can't wait to see what it looks like. No pics yet since it is only sold in the US and ?Canada markets...
My LLBean leans too much now so 8.7 inches....I don't know....
Ralph
Looks like there were getting an opinion from an old school Outback owner. Seems like they represented you fairly.
-juice
One of the minor complaints I have is that with a heavy snowfall, my Outback won't make it up my driveway. It "snowplows" bumper against the snow, and undercarriage starts sitting up on the snow I've gone on. I have Blizzak tires on it too. So added ground clearance is welcome.
For those who don't want the added ground clearance why buy the Outback? Get the regular Legacy or the GT. More choices is better.
On my Forester, it was 6.8" (claimed 7.5"), and it's easily sturdy enough to high-center on. In fact I've jacked the vehicle there before.
With my bigger tires I'm back up to 7.5" or so.
-juice
If you want pure performance isn't that the turbo 4 from the WRX Sti what you want?
Edit: I just looked at the Subaru Global website and the 3 liter engine is listed under the Outback AND the regular Legacy.
In Japan.
Not the USA.
From what I hear, there will be no 6 in the Legacy in the US or Canada.
Anyone KNOW otherwise?