Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

kens · January 2005

Actually, I don't think this problem is unique to the '05 wheels. Any wheel with with lots of open space is prone to building up snow and ice and going off balance. My 98 Forester did this as well.

The idea with wax is to keep the inside of the rim as slick as possible so nothing will stick to it. Snow sticks best to itself so the key is to not allow anything to start sticking to the wheel.

In this sense, steel wheels are probably the least likely to build up snow since they typically have less open area. However, once snow and ice do build up, it could be more difficult to remove it from a steel wheel than an alloy one.

Ken

xwesx · January 2005

Ugh. I can empathize there. My rear wheels have been rubbing ice for 3 months straight now... as they do every winter. I will be so happy this next winter if I can actually finish building my house this summer and park my OB in the radiant floor heated garage!

ateixeira · January 2005

I wonder if you spread some lithium grease on there temporarily, if that would help as an interim solution.

Don't use anything petroleum-based as that may be harmful to the tires' natural rubber.

-juice

timo1745 · January 2005

You're exactly right, Mark; the most fantastic 'foul-weather' vehicle in the world is no better than its tires. And when you think about it, we paid a lot of money for these cars, and $500 really is a cheap 'insurance policy', and one you can use season after season.

I'm going to continue to run my stock wheels/tires in warm weather, too...at least 'till they wear out (maybe by then there'll be some more tire options in size 225/55-R17). I haven't had any 'panic' situations with the Re92A's yet, so I'm still fairly pleased with them in non-winter conditions.

One other thing; the WinterForce tires don't have quite as stiff sidewalls as the RE92A (they're a 60-series "S"-rated tire vs. the RE92A's 55-series "V"-rated), however, if you look at the price difference between tires in 16" and 17", not to mention the greater variety of tires available in 225/60-R16, I'm seriously considering doing away with the 17" wheels at some point and switching down to a nicer set of 16" wheels. Just my $.02 worth.

Be sure and share some pics once you've got your new tires/wheels mounted!

Rgds,

Tim

timo1745 · January 2005

Hey Chuck!

My steel wheels actually came painted silver from tirerack.com as they appear in the pics. I thought they were gonna' come black, but I much prefer the silver, personally. Looks a little more 'stealthy' if ya' ask me

And I appreciate the 'heads up' about the long stems; I can't remember the last time I curbed a tire, but that's not to say it'll never happen, plus my wife does like to drive the car whenver she gets the chance

Rgds,

Tim

timo1745 · January 2005

...now you're talkin', Craig!! Get 'em, get 'em!!

Now I need to see if there's any way for me to mount my existing Thule ski rack (came off my '91 5-Series) to my OB's existing roof rack. Anyone happen to know if there's an adapter kit from Thule to fit the aero-shaped OB cross bars?

Rgds,

Tim

rwoods · January 2005

I take the tire rack "testimonials" with a grain of salt. They remind me of the people who call into the Home Shopping Network and gush over the facial cremes they've bought. I'll trust Consumer Reports before anything else I read.

Bob

rwoods · January 2005

Ah a radiant floor heated garage! Now that's my newest fantasy.

Bob

poisson · January 2005

Tim - I have a set of Thule ski racks I used on my old 1996 SAAB 900. I sold the car with the cross-bars but kept the accessories. I too noticed that the ski racks don't fit and hadn't yet explored options.

Your question prompted me to search.

On thule.com I found what might be the answer:

http://www.thuleracks.com/thule/product.asp?dept_id=13&sku=fm- 1

I couldn't tell if they came more than 1 in a pack but found that they do in fact come 4 to a pack:

http://www.rackwarehouse.com/tfm1.html

Hope that helps. I may order some myself once I verify my rack is compatible (see Thule site for specifics).

-mark

zman3 · January 2005

Radiant floor heat - I have it in my basement and it is fantastic. I only briefly thought about putting it in the garage. Practicality got the better of me.

kyfdx · January 2005

Wow.. a heated garage..

Mine is under the main roofline of the house and is insulated (ceiling and outside walls, also), including an insulated garage door.. It never gets under 40F in there, even when the temperature hits ZERO F..

What does that do to your gas/electric bill?

regards,

kyfdx

ateixeira · January 2005

I'd be happy it my car port had more wind protection!

-juice

zman3 · January 2005

I have no idea what it would cost to heat a garage with radiant floor heat but maybe xwesx does since he is the one planning on installing it. I would think the heat loss out the garage slab face to the driveway would be significant without some type of insulation between the slab and the driveway. Rest of it you could insulate fairly easily.

I heat my basement in Minnesota with in floor radiant heat using only a 40 gallon natural gas water heater and a 0.7 amp pump. I'm estimating it costs me less than $15 per month to heat my 1300sf basement. Radiant heat is incredibly efficient once you get over the initial install price.

hat · January 2005

I have a '97 OBW with 5MT. It's been mentioned that Subaru pared the weight of the OB for '05 compared with the 00-04 generation. Here are published curb weights for comparable "base" OBW's with 5 MT, each with roughly 165 hp:

   '97: 3155 lbs.

   '04: 3430 lbs.

   '05: 3310 lbs.

I find the acceleration of my '97 adequate (not thrilling, certainly). I'm not interested in spending the extra $4k to get the OBXT (& don't want the finicky auto-climate control, having to use premium fuel, etc.). But would the '05 2.5i be slower than my '97, based on weight? (Of course, I'm not looking at possible differences in final-drive ratio, etc.)

In that vein, is there any update to the earlier speculation that '06 will bring AVCS (and hence 180 hp or so) to the 2.5-NA engine?

zman3 · January 2005

We can only hope on the increased power for 06. I am in the same boat as you but I own a 98 OB auto. I really want more power in my next car but right now I am not sold on the $$ premium for the turbo or H6 engines. If Subaru were to bump the HP in the base engine I think I would be sold on a new Subaru. Right now I am not so certain.

tom skelton · January 2005

I hope I'm doing this correctly....

Just purchased a new '05 Outback wagon and would like to put a set of PIAA lights on...any suggestions for a mounting point/bar, etc...many thanks.

yrs,

tOM

sduford · January 2005

A heated garage is by far the best way to ensure rust will eat right through your car in just a few year's time.

Sly

xwesx · January 2005

The install price is quite a bit; depending a lot on how you do it. Retrofitting is definitely more expensive than new construction. I am building the whole house with radiant heat in a slab: The garage has a 26' square 4" slab (no steel mesh, only fiber), the basement/crawl space has a 3" slab, and the rest of the floors (on joists) have a 1.5" gypcrete slab. On average, the cost of installing the radiant heat is about 1/3 more than other heating options, but the cost of heating is about 1/3 less annually so the overall cost is made up within 5 years - in Fairbanks, anyway! My boiler will be diesel-powered, but I have not yet installed it because only 50% of the radiant system is actually installed (basement & 1st floor = garage, bedroom, laundry, bathroom). The garage and basement will be on a separate thermostat from the rest of the house and will be set to 50F.

Heat loss through the front of the slab in the garage is an issue, but not much of one. Once the concrete is warmed up, it does not cool inward through the garage too much. For example, right now the slab stays at about 40-45F year round. Even when we had the -50F bout two weeks ago, the dogs' water bowl (which sits just inside where one garage door will go) did not freeze. In fact, the floor was not perceptably colder there than in the rest of the garage. Without the steel to act as a conductor, the slab holds its temp fairly well and moderates temperature extremes very well. That's why it is so nice to have in a garage - a much better way to heat than forced air. You can open the bay door and work for an hour with the air temp stone cold, but you close the door and the garage warms back up to 50F within a minute or two -- just with the residual heat in the floor.

I have a 1000 gallon fuel tank and I hope to only need to fill it up once every other year. That may seem like a lot to you folks in the lower 48, but I use 350 or so gallons per year right now with a Monitor heater only heating about 1200 sq ft, so heating twice that much space with only another 50 gallons per year is pretty good. The floor heating, combined with R-30 wall insulation and R-48 or better roof (I haven't built that part yet!) should keep us pretty toasty! Right now the "roof" insulation is only R-38. This year, I spent $887 on 500 gallons of #1 heating oil back in September.

A big factor in heating cost is the size of the house's footprint. My place is 26'x42', with two floors. Allowing the heat to rise in the garage up to the flooring of the living area in effect reuses the heat. (If I had the same square footage but only on one floor, I'd probably spend 1/2 again as much on fuel to heat the place. Combine that with doubling the area of the roof and foundation, and it adds a lot of cost to the house's construction! Less wall area also results in more efficiency, so 26'x42' is not optimal. *shrugs*) For Fairbanks, heating a ~2400 sq. ft. space on $75/mo is pretty good, if I can hit that mark. Because I will also be primarily heating my domestic water with the boiler simultaneously, it will drop $30-$40 off my electric bill per month, so the net difference will be quite small and the total annual utility expense will not change much from right now; maybe even go down a little (knock on wood). Time will tell.

-Wes-

xwesx · January 2005

Maybe in places where the roads are salted. Here, it is quite the opposite. Heated garages substantially reduce annual wear and tear on vehicles, both inside and out.

drdave25 · January 2005

I've had '97, '99, '02, and now '05 base Outbacks with MT. The current model definitely feels the peppiest of the crowd. In dry weather, with the short-throw stick, and the Goodrich Traction T/As, it's lots of fun, corners great. However, as a lot of folks have noted in this forum, in winter, snow tires would allow this '05 to show its stuff much better.

zman3 · January 2005

I don't know if I would have sprung for it due to the additional cost when we built our house (we didn't even have it quoted), but I can tell you that after having the radiant floor heat in our basement I would love to have it throughout the whole house.

That gypcrete it darn expensive however.

kyfdx · January 2005

lol.. just noticed you live in Fairbanks.. Of course you are heating your garage!!

It all makes sense now.. Really, it would probably pay for itself, just in decreased wear and tear on your car... And, having living space over the garage, makes it even more efficient..

I live in kind of a modified cape cod, so even though my garage is under the roof line, only unfinished attic space is above it.. no living space...

Stay warm!

kyfdx

ateixeira · January 2005

The '97 had 165hp/162 lb-ft, IIRC.

The new ones have 168/166, so only a slight improvement, but the torque curve is also better.

I'd guess they'd perform about the same.

Good news is the mileage is better, it was 21/27 back then and now it's 23/30.

-juice

robr2 · January 2005

A neighbor of mine went a step further. He had a driveway (2 cars wide x 1 car deep) redone with concrete cobblestone pavers. He had an electric heating grid installed so he flips a switch when the snow starts and warms it up. It didn't keep up with the 30" we got over the weekend but it got alot of it.

kyfdx · January 2005

Yeah.. we hit the home shows in the summer.. Most are priced from $700K-$2MM (that is a lot in the midwest)..

I've seen the heated driveways a few times.. When we custom built our house in '98, I asked the builder about putting in a heated floor under the tile in the master bath (about 70 sq ft).. he said forget it.. it isn't in your budget. ;-(

I guess the driveway thing probably won't happen for us...lol.

robr2 · January 2005

To tell you the truth, I don't think it was that expensive - well for him at least.

xwesx · January 2005

Not excessively. To have a contractor do the work, I would have paid $2/sq. ft. for an inch-and-a-half deep slab. Considering that bagged concrete (up here, anyway) costs about $3/ bag at the cheapest and jumps to about $8 with fiber, and covers only 5 sq feet at the same depth, and considering that it would require larger joists to support it, the gypcrete is a great option. You can also install the tubing directly within modified (grooved) subflooring, but it doesn't heat as evenly unless you tile the floor above it and is really only a good option for remodel jobs. The gypcrete floors also make the flooring surface feel much more solid and elminates any squeaks you may otherwise encounter due to the added weight and the fact that it spreads your weight over a greater surface area.

As it was, the contractor was unable to do the work on my timeline and so instead just sold me the 80# bagged gypcrete base at $40/bag, so I ended up paying $400 for 21 bags, another $40 for 4 yards of sand that I hauled in two loads with my pickup, and I poured just under 500 sq. ft. The contractor even let me borrow his tools. Other than it being one heck of an exhausting effort, it worked out quite nicely. :-D

I think the '96 base model OB is quite peppy though I am not overly impressed with how it corners (I'm sure some of that is the tires), but I'm sure I would feel it rather bland were I to try out the 05 XT. I figure if I stay away from it, I will not know what I am missing. Besides, If I want extra pep and excellent cornering on pavement, I just drive my '69 for a day or two ;-D

xwesx · January 2005

That would actually probably work pretty well in warmer climates because the ground tends to retain quite a bit of heat anyhow. I had considered running an additional "zone" through the sidewalks at my place and just turning it on when we had warm spells because that's when the ice gets slick, but it just seemed too extravagent and not worth the added cost; maybe on the next house or the one after.

zman3 · January 2005

Wow. I was considering doing an overpour of gypcrete in my house when I did the basement but the quotes from around here were $6 - $7/ sq ft for an inch and a half thickness.

hat · January 2005

Last summer/fall, there was discussion about adding the air filtration accessory to the '05.

I just looked at subaru.com, and they don't appear to list this as either a standard feature or an accessory for the Outback 2.5i.

Edmunds shows this item (code K5A, "Air Filtration System") as still being available, but the Kelley Blue Book site shows it as "N/A after 6/1/04."

Can anyone clarify this situation?

samiam_68 · January 2005

AFAIK, air filtration is a standard feature on 05's.

rwoods · January 2005

I was disappointed to read in the January issue of Motor Trend that the Subaru Legacy GT took 142 feet to stop from 60 mph. That placed it in last place in their car of the year competition in the braking category. The Legacy GT also didn't fare well in many of the other categories such as grip, slalom, etc. All were either average or below.

Bob

krzyss · January 2005

I believe that the biggest issue are the tires. Subaru should have put better tires on their sporty GT.

Krzys

kyfdx · January 2005

This is true... but, also... it is an AWD vehicle.. There will always be compromises, if you need the tires to do everything. "Better" tires might compromise it's ability in inclement weather..

ateixeira · January 2005

That's why we call them Blotenzas.

The brakes can lock up the tires, so they have more than enough stopping power. It's all down to the traction the tires have.

-juice

kens · January 2005

The cabin air filter is an option that's been eluding us all. The original one requires way too much labor to install (involves removing lots of interior trim) and rumor was that a redesigned version was supposed to come out. I've now heard that Subaru has dropped the redesign for now.

None of this is confirmed officially, however. But if you try and order a cabin filter at your dealer, I think they'll tell you it's not available yet.

Ken

scottl · January 2005

I recently had a standard '05 Legacy sedan as a loaner while my '02 WRX was being repaired. I liked the car quite a bit, except for the absolute marshmallow suspension.

A standard Legacy would be just fine; I don't want to pay the extra freight for an Outback or XT. Does anyone know if the wagon suspension is any stiffer?

Does anyone really like the super soft ride? I had a Chevy Impala as a rental a few weeks earlier and it actually felt better than the Legacy! I guess if you do nothing but drive on interstate the Legacy works OK.

krzyss · January 2005

all seasons than RE92 (RE950 for example) but Subaru decided to go with UTQG 160 rated RE92. It probably means that these tires should be ready for replacement in 20000 miles, maybe less.

Krzys

checkitout · January 2005

That's USDM for you. The rumor out there (or is it a well acknowledged fact now), is that the JDM Legacy has better tires and suspension. Maybe that is why the JDM Legacy won best car of the year award in Japan but in the States it has been getting only lukewarm to good reviews.

twrx · January 2005

My 2.5 i is a Legacy wagon not an Outback. I traded an 03 WRX on it. I am shocked. Performance is more than adequate. This thing feels fast. And it is the auto! No it can't be as fast as my WRX was but this is not a boring car!

gxb159 · January 2005

One 3 separtare occasions my winshshield washer nozzles have frozen on my 05 OB. The reservoir was full and did not freeze, only the nozzles. I have been usng -20 degrees fluid. The only way to resolve the issue is to allow the nozzles to thaw. During the blizzard I was heading from Delaware to Vermont to ski and couldn't use the wipers the entire way.

I asked my dealer and he said that they have never heard of this problem. Thus they have no fix.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

On another note, the Subie was great in the blizzard. Had no problems and the Winterforce tires wouldn't slip.

sduford · January 2005

You probably still have water in your system. -20 is not that strong and if there was some water already in the tank when you filled it, the actual capacity would be much lower. It makes sense that it would freez in the nozzles or tubes first.

I use -35C or -40C washer fluid. We've had a few -30C nights already and my car sleeps outside. I never had any problems with the windshield washer system. It is not a design issue, just a fluid issue.

Sly

madux · January 2005

Could you elaborate why better tires will compromise an awd vehicle's inclement weather ability?

natethomas · January 2005

I have had the same experience with my 05 OBXT. At least two times in the last month (when it was around 5 degrees) the nozzles were frozen. I am still using the wiper fluid that came with the car, and I assume that a dealer in New England would put in decent wiper fluid.

On both occasions, once the car has heated up the nozzles have begun to work. It's about time to replace the fluid and I'll put in some -40 and see if there is any change.

In relation to the tires, I am quite dissapointed with the RE92's. They are managable at best in the snow and when I accelearte I can feel the tires start to loose grip. I really don't want to spend the money on snow tires with half of the winter already gone by but I may have to.

-Nate

kyfdx · January 2005

Performance oriented tires don't have the same snow gripping ability as regular all-season or snow tires.. Some performance tires are for summer driving only...

Of course, a "better" tire of the same type won't negatively affect inclement weather performance.. (IOW, Michelin vs. Kumho).

But, if you step up from H-rated to V-rated, etc.. you usually get a tire that doesn't do as well handling snow, etc...

Almost every tire has compromises... Those built for snow traction usually sacrifice dry road performance and vice versa..

regards,

kyfdx

sduford · January 2005

Several people on LegacyGT have reported that their dealers had put water or highly diluted winshield washer fluid in their cars and their system froze. Dealers are notoriously stupid and cheap with stuff like that, so don't assume they will do the right thing for you.

Water freezes, and there is nothing in a car's design that will stop that short of heating the nozzles. Flush your fluid tank and replace it with high quality fluid, the problem will go away.

No problems here with my OBXT, even in -30C (-22F).

Sly

snowbird · January 2005

So, what would be a good compromise all season tire to replace the RE92's for the Subaru?

kyfdx · January 2005

As I don't own one..

Tell me what size it is, and what model Subaru you have... and I'll give you some options..

I'm sure others here will tell you what they have tried, as well..

regards,

kyfdx

kens · January 2005

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/104466/article.html?tid- =edmunds.h..recedmunds.topten.1.*

rsholland · January 2005

I'd be mighty surprised if it didn't make this list. I am surprised other Subies didn't make it.

Bob

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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