Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

c_hunter · March 2005

My wife and I both have Subaru cards, under separate accounts -- she wanted to have some sort of credit history instead of mooching off me all the time ;-). When I bought my 05 OB XT, I used coupons from both accounts. They only amounted to about $800 or so, nowhere near the $2000 limit, so I was not able to feel out the rules...

Craig

andrewk · March 2005

WOW, thanks for all of the informative responses! We should have got the credit cards years ago to help with the purchases but we will surely get them for the future maintenance!

Thanks again! Andy

dcm61 · March 2005

WOW, thanks for all of the informative responses!

Your welcome but we only take cash payment. Subaru Bucks, VISA or MC are not accepted. :-D

DaveM

robr2 · March 2005

Did you check the liberty insurance, they provide 10% discout to subaru customers. check subaru.com website.

Arrrggggg - run fast - run far!! By far the worst experiences I ever had with an insurer was Liberty Mutual. I can get a similar offer through another group (in MA insurers can't discount easily), but have yet to take advantage of it.

sweet_subie · March 2005

which group is this ?

robr2 · March 2005

If you an alumni of most of the state colleges (or many private ones) you get a group discount.

Here is a list of all the documents regarding car insurance discounts in MA:

http://www.mass.gov/portal/index.jsp?query=2005+approved+automobile&startAtResultNum=1&pag- eID=mg2searchlanding&sid=massgov2&numResults=50&collectorName=CONSUMERxDOIx&searchBtn.x=25- &searchBtn.y=4

I wish there was one big list.

ateixeira · March 2005

I called for a quote and the price was higher than I get with the Costco Executive member program (AMEX insures it).

So I passed. They do promise OE parts, at least.

-juice

locke2c · March 2005

quote (numbers inserted by Colin): Oh, how I wish this were true... but I'm afraid not. 1. Regardless of engine load, the turbo exerts back pressure on the engine which increases fuel mileage. 2. Compare the highway mpg of an XT (ie. cruising at low load conditions) to that of a 2.5i and you'll see a significant difference. 3. So enjoy the 250 hp, but it ain't free - even when you're not pushing it!

1. a true apples-to-apples comparison isn't that possible because the engines differ in much more ways than just the presence of a turbocharger, but I believe you meant to say that the turbocharger increases backpressure in high-vacuum cruise which decreases fuel mileage-- not increases. this is technically true but the amount is meaningless compared to everything else that is dissimilar.

the cylinder heads are different in every way except being 4 valve per cylinder-- one has cam-phasing variable valve timing, one is SOHC with fast opening lobes, one has ports optimized for forced induction, etc. the basic mechanical efficiency of the engines is different as well, since one is much lower compression than the other.

2. I had a '99 Impreza RS that, honestly, had a virtually identical engine to the current 2.5i models. Even before I modified it, it got no better MPG than the EPA hwy estimates for the 2.5i, 28. that was really pushing it and could only be done when not using AC... 26 was more typical, which oddly enough is near the XT's 25mpg highway rating. Plus my impreza was lighter. What I'm saying is that the effective difference between the XT and 2.5i on the highway is meaningless, for the average consumer's annual mileage. Even adding in the slight premium for premium fuel, it doesn't matter that much-- the majority of the added cost is in the sticker price and insurance.

3. I drive an Evo, I have more than 250 HP and I do enjoy it.

I get 22-23 mpg in 65% hwy 35% city and the car sees high rpm and heavy throttle usage a few times a day.

~Colin

ateixeira · March 2005

YMMV is a cliche but it's so true. Edmunds averaged 16 mpg on their long-term Tribute. One tank yielded 14 mpg.

And we complain about 20-22.

-juice

c_hunter · March 2005

I would complain about 20mpg a lot less if the car came with a bigger gas tank. Reduced range is the biggest gripe with my XT wagon. In fact, we're leaving for a ski trip tonight, and I am half considering taking a spare 5gal can of gas (it can ride on the roof with my skis!). Once we get about 150 miles into the trip, we will be in the mountains of VA and WV on back roads, where there are no gas stations. I would be arriving on fumes if I try to make it with one tank. What I will probably have to do is stop for a fillup before we leave civilization. It ends up requiring 4 fillups round trip instead of the 2 my 02 H6 wagon required. Kind of a pain in this situation. The XT is definitely a car that prefers to be near gas stations!

Craig

dcm61 · March 2005

if the car came with a bigger gas tank.

I just noticed (at cars101) that the Tribeca also has a "16.9" gallon tank. :-(

DaveM

kyfdx · March 2005

15.3 gallon tank, but in reality, you can almost never take it under 13 gallons... 300 miles is stretching it... I've never made it over 330 on one tank...

ateixeira · March 2005

Agree with all the comments above, Tribeca really ought to have a 20 gallon tank. At least!

-juice

kens · March 2005

Good points, Colin. People do tend to focus on a few mpg differences, but if you do the math it's usually not significant compared to the total cost of ownership.

I wonder which people are more sensitive to -- lower mpg or lower range?

I agree that the 2.5T models should have a slightly larger tank to add range. However, I'm not complaining -- my LGT wagon already goes further than my 98 Forester on one tank (albeit on premium fuel).

Ken

05gtwagon · March 2005

Ken,

I have an 05 Legacy Wagon with the same sound from the solenoid. It was not there when I purchased the car new (7,800 miles now).

Were you able to get the noise fixed? If so, how.

Best regards,

Hal

sduford · March 2005

Good point! I'd say both, as they are closely related.

I personally don't like the 3oo mile range, but it's probably as much because I have to plunk down $40 that often.

Give me an extra 5 MPG, and it would fix both problems!

Sly

ateixeira · March 2005

Range, all the way.

I hate that I have to get gas every 250 miles in my Miata. I realize it's a sports car and lightness is a priority, but an empty tank is still light!

Miata gets 27 mpg, Forester averages 25, but I'm happier with the Forester in that regard.

-juice

locke2c · March 2005

That is my main beef with the Evo, but I've gotten used to it. I usually fill up between 260 and 290 miles per tank.

It is *rated* at 14.0 gallons but I have serious doubts that it's truly that size. I've had the fuel light on a good while and gotten the needle below E but yet still put in only 12.5 gallons at most. I'd like to have the 1.2 rated gallons more in a Subaru, or better yet the (truly) 16.8 gallon tank that my '95 M3 had. It easily could do 400-420 miles per tank on the highway.

~Colin

kens · March 2005

Hal,

Nope, never got it fixed since there wasn't any obvious way to do so. The service department did try putting some lubricant on the shift lock lever which quited it a bit.

The noise is still there, but I just don't notice it anymore.

Ken

andrewk · March 2005

Different vehicle, but I had '99 GMC Sierra, V6, 5 spd, with a 35 gallon tank. Given the 18-20 mpg, I could get between 600 - 700 miles between fill ups. Plus, at the time, I was riding an express bus (mass transit)to and from work, compliments of my employer. I didn't have to get a refill but about once a month! Regardless, still much happier with my 2.5i,driving every day, half the range and filling up once a week. :-D

rambo5 · March 2005

Does the sedan have a split rear seat or a pass through? Comes in handy for a pair of skis.

tmonty · March 2005

Colin,

Yes, you're right, I meant 'decrease' and not 'increase' gas mileage. Meant one thing, wrote another. Regarding the engine comparison, the XT engine is clearly more sophisticated in terms of the technology add-ons that it brings to bare. However, putting that aside, one cannot say that the turbo is like the cookie jar in the cupboard- you only pay the penalty around the waist line if and when you reach for it. The turbo is in-line with the exhaust and there'll be some base-line back pressure no matter how good the turbo implementation is. The apples-to-apples highway mpg comparison of the 2.5i vs 2.5T mpg bears it out (putting aside secondary contributing variances: tire selection, final drive ratio, etc).

Regarding the comment about "slight premium for premium fuel"... I don't consider a 15% surcharge 'slight' - though I'll concede that the higher sticker price & insurance will trump any concern over fuel costs.

All in all, the 250hp XT is a treat to drive but there are, IMHO, significant cost implications. If you're a new buyer, do the math, think about it, and if you're still ok with it - knock yourself out!

Tom

rob_m · March 2005

Sedan has a pass-through.

Fold down seats would be a nice feature (hint, hint). My 99 GT sedan has 60/40 fold down seats, and I have used them on many occasions. Rob M.

david55838 · March 2005

Thanks, Tim. I forgot I had put the Hakkepillita snows on the XT a week after I got it. I'll check the mileage again in the spring. We have that crappy oxygenated fuel here in Wisconsin too.

I love the car overall as well.

Thanks,
David

samiam_68 · March 2005

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=6&u=/latimests/20050305/t- s_latimes/subaruattopinqualitysurvey

tmonty · March 2005

Good stuff. I was surprised by Ford's ranking though. mmmmh. I would have thought that the GM products would have done better. My anecdotal information from people that I know who have Fords & Chrysler... stay away. GM products on the other hand...

sweet_subie · March 2005

look at those expensive europeon brands - VW, BMW& Merc-B. I would look stupid spending so much money & have worst possible reliability.

lumbar · March 2005

I'm not that familiar with how CR operates, but, reading the link, it appears that the top ranking is restricted only to model year 2004 vehicles. Is that correct?

robr2 · March 2005

Tongue in cheek: do you really believe this report? The same one that says the Sonata is the most reliable car in America?? I know Hyundai has made improvements but not that much.

But as another poster noted in another thread, the 817K consumers polled represent about 1/3 of 1% of the 245 MILLION car owners in the US. Is this a big enough survey?

sweet_subie · March 2005

it is the most trusted source in america

cannedbeat · March 2005

CR will often publish extremely puzzling "facts." Frequently, they even contradict themselves from issue to issue. I take their publication with a large grain of salt!
If I had the subwoofer installed, as I paid for it, should I have additional menu selections from the stereo? Like a separate volume adjustment?
I normally wouldn't consider performance upgrades due to risk of damagin engine, etc., but some of the offerings are pretty enticing. Does anyone know anything about the Cobb ECU programming product which claims 45 increase in hp? Since the Legacy GT has basically the same engine as the STI, why not tap some extra power. After all, the new Lotus Elise achieves all its extra hp from its Toyota engine by simple tuning. Any thoughts?

sduford · March 2005

This ranking is only for the 2004 model year, which shows only initial quality (aka assembly quality). It has absolutely nothing to do with long term reliability, which is what is really important. Actually if you look at the stats for the 2003 model year, the number of problems has already nearly doubled.

Sly

canuck1933 · March 2005

I was trying to find more pics of outbacks and came upon the subaru's japan website.

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/outback/exterior/index.html
If you select the 3.0 LL Bean edition and check out the black, it appears to look a little different than what the US subaru website shows... the japan black is two tone... while the US black is monotone...

does anyone know if this combination is really not available in n. america?... I like the two-tone black a lot more than the monotone black!... thanks in advance!

mcaspe1 · March 2005

Hello all,

I test drove a 05 Legacy GT yesterday and was totally impressed. I have a couple of concerns though.
First is the turbo. I am concerned about the quality and durability of the turbo charger in the Subaru. Will it break down on me right after the warrantee expires? Will it hold up well with a person who beats on their car? If there is anyone who has owned a Legacy GT for a while out there I would appreciate their input.
Second is the lack of stability control, does anyone have any input in that?
I am seriously considering on buying this car. Any input is helpful.

Thanks

ntk1 · March 2005

Info on Cobb - I have installed the Cobb tuning AcessPORT stage 1 map.
This entails reprogramming the ECU with the device you purchase from Cobb, no other changes are necessary. This will give you appx 30 HP more than stock and (importantly for me) will get rid of that engine stuttering that a lot of owners experience. The AcessPORT costs $645 and they offer a 30 day money back guarantee. To my knowledge, no one has ever returned a unit. Since installing this upgrade my car is transformed, the engine is ten times smoother through the rev range and pulls like a freight train, this is how the engine should have been tuned from stock !! for more info look at legacygtdotcom in the turbo powertrain forum and check out cobbtuningdotcom for details of the accessport

Cheers

Pete

hondafriek · March 2005

I hope realise that in doing this you
have probably kissed your warranty goodbye.

Cheers Pat.

sweet_subie · March 2005

note that legacy had a 170hp turbo in early 90s which didn;t have any problem.

shame on you asking the WRC three time winner that if turbo will fail (just kidding).

see consumer reports 2005, the most reliable brand for 2004 is Subaru, yes ahead of honda/toyota.

yes, stability control (VDC, subaru's is very effective) would be nice. it depends on how badly you need to buy. FOr e.g i am waiting till early next year to see if 2006 model will have it. we will know in NY auto show in apr 2005.

sweet_subie · March 2005

how does it compare to Vishnu's ?

what happened to your gas mileage ?

i suppose i can do this once 3-yr warranty expires ?

dsattler · March 2005

First, keep in mind that Subaru has been using turbos for a good long while, and the WRX and STi have been in this country, enduring American drivers, for a few years and have had no problems.

I've had my Legacy GT Limited wagon since June (11,000 miles), through several snow storms and lots of rain and sleet, and never had a problem or wished for stability control. There were a number of times I drove up snowy hills past spinning, swerving SUVs.

ateixeira · March 2005

Would be nice, and Subaru needs to address this, because it is easily the feature most asked for by prospective buyers.

Having said that, S/C will maximize what traction is available, but only AWD or a LSD will actually increase the amount of traction available.

Ideally you'd have both, but I'd pick AWD over S/C alone, any day.

-juice

krzyss · March 2005

car with proper tires above any mechanical devices (RWD, FWD, AWD, LSD , etc., etc.).

Krzys

sweet_subie · March 2005

sub AWD makes a difference. there have been days where there is upto 3 ft of snow, i never showel. i put my OB to test & it always works !!!

my MPV with traction control & good winter tires won;t. i will still need to showel

ateixeira · March 2005

True, but you control tire choice. It's a little harder to add AWD to an existing vehicle.

-juice

katway · March 2005

From their tract record, Subaru turbos appear to have reasonable reliability. Nevertheless, turbos are generally not as reliable as normally aspirated vehicles because they generate extreme amounts of heat and result in more engine wear. Thus, while the technology for turbo engines is much improved, they still wear a little harder than normally aspirated engines.

With respect to stability control, I personally do not view it as something that is there to help you in everyday situations to gain traction in basic weather conditions. I view it as being there in an emergency to assist you in making the correct move to avoid disaster. My VDC's stability control has come into play on a couple occassions and I was thoroughly satisfied with its performance. It gives me peace of mind to know that it is there if/when I need it. The real benefit to stability control is the ability of the car to react to road conditions quicker than those conditions can be communicated to (or even recognized by) the driver. In those situations where you don't even realize the ice is there, etc. is where stability control really shines.

aptosca · March 2005

I just got a letter from SOA that they want me to reflash my 2005 VDC. They say the new programming allows the ECU to override manual mode in cases where transmission damage would occur.

pklong · March 2005

Ok, I am looking at getting a 2005 Outback XT and noticed that it says premium unleaded fuel. Obviously the car won't blow up if I put regular unleaded in it, but, will I notice the difference if I don't? I guess asking anyone for their thoughts on if premium HAS to be used or for the most part can you get away with regular unleaded. Looks like we will be getting to $3/gallon prices this summer for regular unleaded looking at the forecasts.

307web · March 2005

Assembly quality is important. Some people just have it etched in their brains that Hyundais will always be the worst car you can buy and will never improve to quality levels of Japanese brands.
It is super annoying to have to go back to the dealer 5 times with a brand-new car that was sloppily put together at the factory. These first impressions can ruin your enjoyment of the car and make you say "If it's already falling apart after 2 weeks, what's going to happen in a year?"
Don't discount "initial quality."
One of the main reasons I'm not going to buy a Hyundai is because so many people want to refuse to believe they have improved and that perception will hurt the resale value down the road.

dcm61 · March 2005

Looks like we will be getting to $3/gallon prices this summer for regular unleaded looking at the forecasts.

As gas prices increase, the premium for premium actually decreases. :-)

$3.20 vs. $3.00 (6.7% premium) is better than $1.20 vs. $1.00 (20% premium)

DaveM

tmonty · March 2005

...assuming the bump up is fixed at current levels. I wouldn't count on it.

Tom

kens · March 2005

Subaru has long been in the business for developing turbocharged cars. As already mentioned, the Legacys from the early 90s were turbocharged and were known for their reliability.
The turbo in the Legacy GT (as well as the Outback XT and Forester XT) share the same block and internals as the 300HP WRX STi engine. The non-WRX STi turbo models simply have smaller turbos running lower boost to make less power. Given that the engine block was designed to run on a high peroformance vehicle such as the STi that is asking for hard driving, reliability should not be an issue with a lower boost 250HP tuning.

Also, the WRX STi and Forester XT have been out for a couple years now. Despite the enthusiast crowd it has attracted (especially with the STi), there have not been reliability issues that I know of.

FWIW, I have been driving my Legacy GT wagon for 9 months now with no problems.

Stability control comes into play for emergency at the limit handling. I do feel it is one area Subaru does need to catch up in by offering this option to other vehicles. For most drivers, stability control probably has more emergency maneuver benefits than AWD. It does help to control the vehicle in ways that are not possible by driver intervention and skill alone.

However, as being a LGT owner, I would not write off a vehicle simply because it does not have stability control. While stability control does help at the limit, it is not a fool proof system and not all stability control is created equal. I would rather have a well balanced chassis with AWD rather than a add-on stability control system to a poorly designed vehicle.

Ken

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles