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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    My first instinct is to expect a base OB XT to have MSRP about $4-5K above a base Forester XT, and the LTD trim significantly more.I expect the base Legacy GT to be priced about mid point between them .
      I have a hunch SoA has kept the trim and other equipment on the new Legacy pretty lean so that no Legacy model, up to and including the Legacy GT LTD, hits $30K MSRP. The marketing and perceived competition for the new Outback is decidedly different: they are taking on the BMW X3, the Audi allroad, the Volvo XC70, the Nissan Murano/Infiniti FX35 and the Lexus RX330 for size and performance , if not upper-end luxury features. I'll even wager that NAV will be available as an option in the upper trim levels by the time the 05 Outback hits the dealer lots. That "crossover" look has already taken on a second meaning: $$$!

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pacifica is bigger and they tried $35k pricing, consumers rejected that in droves. They sell starting at $27k, and that's for a 3 row crossover and a big V6.

    Cadillac built too many V8 SRXs at first, people wanted the cheaper V6. So even luxury crossovers are price-sensitive.

    -juice
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    The two big items Subaru - SOA had to tackle to have their cars considered "Premium" was the interior and the power. The power was an easy fix as they had more powerful drivetrains in Japan and Europe. The interior is the harder task. The features, design layout and materials all had to change and be upgraded. Alot of brand perception hinges on the press and publics impression on the new upgraded Outback and Legacy interiors. We will wait and see, preliminary reviews have been positive. For their sake I hope they truly made a significant improvement.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Any idea on mpg for the 2.5l non-turbo with manual - in the legacy? The 04 is 21/28 If there is a 10% improvement, then I am hoping for 23/31. This would still be a way from the 26/34 of the Accord, but much better.

    It is beyond me how an XT can only get 17/23. A W8 Passat wagon with an automatic tranny and AWD gets 18/25 (a 745 Li gets 18/26). Of course the Passat has a gas guzzler tax of $1,200 because it is not an "SUV". I guess they should bump up the ground clearance to save their customers some money. ; ^ )

    I wish Subarus were more efficient. Hopefully the '05 models will be.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interiors are much improved. Better design mainly, but also better materials quality. The headliner is padded and covered in a nice fabric, vs. peach fuzz on card board for the old ones. Even the A-pillar is covered in the same fabric that the VW Phaeton gets (an $80 grand vehicle).

    Then look at the cargo area, the carpets are tucked in nicely, no visible seams. Even Mercedes leaves some seams visible in there.

    Add scuff plates for the doors, better seats, more features, more room, and I think they pretty much nailed it.

    -juice
  • radianradian Member Posts: 21
    18/23 is what Subaru says in specs for the FXT M/T. Now a comparison...

    WEIGHT
    -FXT weighs 3210, which is 80 pounds heavier than the FXS Premium.
    -04 Legacy L sedan weighs 3285, minus 180 pounds for the 05s (so says Subaru), plus 80 pounds for turbo (or so), gives you 3185 lbs. for new GT sedan.

    [Granted the current L may not have all the interior options of the GT sedan, so it may weigh up to 100 pounds more than the estimate above.]

    DRAG
    -FXT has 0.35
    -Legacy sedan will have 0.28

    GEARING
    -FXT: Final drive (4.444) and Fifth (0.738)
    -Legacy: Final drive (4.111) and Fifth (0.738)

    ENGINE IMPROVEMENTS
    -Legacy has improved efficency 2.5L boxer (not sure if that applies to GT or not)

    So adding all those things together, I don't feel my estimates are exceedingly optimistic, but I do agree they are optimistic. 18/24 seems like the minimum given it'd look very weird (to potential buyers) for the Legacy GT to have worse mileage than the STi.

    kevin111: Thanks for the suggestions about other cars to test out. The RX-8 is pushing it as far as our sporting tendencies go though (ruling out the Evo, Z, STi, and S2000), and the other two are a bit too expensive. I'd say today we're learning towards comfort and functionality, hence the Legacy GT. It changes everyday though, and may change if the base GT is too expensive when the prices are released.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    do testdrive the two back-to-back.

    I am especially curious about the interior and handling of the GT vs. the RX8.

    From testdriving the RX8, I was very impressed with the suspension set-up. Had a compliant ride while still having excellent handling.
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    I am convinced the MPG killer is the gearing:

    GEARING
    -FXT: Final drive (4.444) and Fifth (0.738)
    -Legacy: Final drive (4.111) and Fifth (0.738)

    At 75 mph my '01 OB MT runs at 3,500 RPM. Several others have posted in the past how surprised they were on how high their engines ran at highway speeds, too.

    I really, REALLY like the direction that Subaru is taking with the styling, interior and performance with the new model. I wish they had addressed the high gearing at the same time. Unless you're looking for a stoplight racer, there's just no reason for a turbo engine that puts out as much horsepower and torque as the new model needs to rev so high at highway speeds. Mileage, noise and vibration could all be improved with lower gearing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    L/SE and 35AE had a moonroof standard, and the GT actually drops that (unless you go LTD), so that saves some weight, too.

    The weight difference should not be significant. The aerodynamics only come into play at higher speeds, so that might get +1mpg highway. But the taller final drive helps there also, maybe +2mpg highway total.

    It's hard to improve city mileage, though.

    By that theory it would be 18/25.

    -juice
  • radianradian Member Posts: 21
    rob999: I agree completely. My only theory is they don't want people thinking it's underpowered when they go to pass someone in fifth gear. I'd gladly trade off the extra acceleration on the highway for some mileage. It seems that US driving is especially suited to having a low cruising gear given all the highway driving we do overall.

    juice: Forgot about the moonroof weight. I know you're upset about no moonroof with cloth interior, but I'm glad they removed it. I'm 6'7" and my head is almost scraping the roof on my 00 GT wagon.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I could live without one if I had to. Or go aftermarket. But I *love* that new design, it's awesome.

    Here's my kid popping out of the new wagon's roof:

    http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291571095&p=4188015605- &idx=3

    -juice
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Just saw the 05 at the Philly Flower Show. Bigger crowds looking at the car than at the flowers. I was very impressed with the interior materials. The dash looks very classy and upscale. The rear hatch moves with the touch of a finger. Rep said it should be in dealers by 6/1.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    There was an '05 Outback at the Atlanta Autoshow. Interior and exterior looked sharp. My perception was that the styling and quality compared very well to AWD sport wagons from Audi, Volvo and VW.

    Interestingly enough they just had it sitting out there with all the other cars, with nothing to distinguish it as being the new model. I don't think most people realized what it was. Stealth marketing?

    As an aside - I also got the chance to get inside an X3. Talk about tinny doors and cheap looking trim. I'd post that on the FXT / vs. X3 vs. FX board, but listening to the BMW whiners has really gotten tiresome for me.
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    back in February - the '05 Outback 3.0R VDC wagon was there, tucked back behind an '04 Outback LLBean. No fancy platform, just on the floor with the 'others'. There was actually more traffic in the Forester/Impreza area, not that I was helping much hogging the seat time in the F-XT ;-)

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good to hear about the crowd reaction.

    Then again, maybe not, demand will be high and so will prices!

    -juice
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    So you might not be able to get an Outback for near invoice for the first 6 months. Wait a year, then see. Remember the WRX?
  • yugoboyyugoboy Member Posts: 161
    I just had the opportunity to check out the 05 legacy gt wagon at my local car show(calgary canada) and this wagon is quite simply amazing, it's design is so subtle yet sporty, although i did not have the chance to sit inside(locked) the interior looks very upscale and European.

    The most exciting part was when i was speaking with a few of the subaru reps, and they all seem to have a general consensus that this car can be had for about 38-39k canadian, which is an absolute steel.

    Just gauging the crowd reaction to this wagon and it was positive, i found it very amusing once people actually took the time to read the specs on the vehicle and all i kept hearing over and over was holy cow this car will have 250hp/250tourqe!

    I think i will opt for the automatic when she comes out, does any have any performance figures for the auto compared to the manual?????
  • kcc455kcc455 Member Posts: 33
    Does anyone know when they are expected to arrive in showrooms?
    Thank you.
  • ntk1ntk1 Member Posts: 57
    The general consensus seems to be that the first cars will get to the Subaru showrooms early June. I haven't seen anything to indicate what models ie Sedan/wagon/Na/GT etc will be fielded first. Like you I am looking for a GT with 5 speed
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    (GT with automatic here...and NOT the limited, thank you...or is it XT with automatic and not the limited? I am so confused...)
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    After an initial apathy towards these new Legacy/Outback vehicles, I decided to check out the need-desire.com website that has been bantered about here. OUTSTANDING!

    The new Legacy seems to have locked crosshairs on the segment, and I feel this car will fully poise Subaru to gain market share and increase profit margins as more and more people look towards AWD vehicles. Specifically, and contrary to many others here, I am interested in the Legacy 2.5i, non-turbo, as an alternative to the mainstream midsize sedans currently available. If this car, w/ AWD, side curtains, automatic and a reasonable amount of amenities... comes in around $23,000- it will very likely be the next car my parents purchase, in October of this year.

    It seems to be the perfect size- bigger than the Impreza but not supersize midsize like the current crop of Camry/Accord/Altimas. The base engine is proven, and in this tweaked form- seems to offer plenty of power- and promises slightly better fuel economy than the current version. The interior looks to be high quality and well styled, judging from the website, and Subaru has a decent track record for reliability, and consistently scores well in NHTSA and IIHS crash tests. Whats not to like? As long as the car does not completely sacrifice ride for handling, I feel that this car, more than any offering before, should have Toyota and Honda paying attention.

    I really cannot wait to see the entire line of Legacy/Outback at NYIAS (please tell me the full line will be in that show....)

    When is full information (pricing/colors/options) expected to be available?

    Thanks!

    Happy motoring,

    ~alpha
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    need-desire.com has the color selector working.. click on menu->legacy->specifications->color selector if you don't already know..

    color selector makes the car look a bit fake but hey it is computer generated (it seems)..

    anybody 6'3" or taller been in the front seat of a limited yet?? I tried the cinncy auto show and the *** didn't have an 05 legacy there! they did have 9 other models though!!??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    GT Limited, or 2.5i Limited?

    The amount of space is the same, but the seats are completely different. The GT has those extended bolsters and taller shoulders.

    I'm 6' but I had room to spare in both.

    -juice
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    I would be getting the GT Limited most likely. so I am looking at the sunroof also.. I am not sure who told me this but didn't you say that you only sat in the back seat Juice???

    I also know the wheel base is longer so that could help headroom! but for the life of me I can't get a number on the front headroom! (w/ sunroof, GT Limited) or any of the 05s for that matter
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I only took a photo of me in the back seat of the sedan. I did try out the new GT seats and loved them. They're different than the ones in the 2.5i model.

    Look over the pics we have in the album, both Bob and I took pics and they're all here:

    http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288069365

    There are loads of pics of the 2005s we saw at NAIAS.

    -juice
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    I have a few questions juice, the picture entitled "Scoop!" did you know those guys? if so how tall are they cause they seem to have sufficient headroom, also how tall is "bob"? from the pic "bob and Jamie".. and lastly was the battery live enough to lower the seat? if not chances are the seat wasn't lowered all the way?

    thanks for the album url juice!
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I had the opportunity of sitting in the 05 Legacy GT in the Philly Show and it was roomy. It was a wagon but the interior is the same (space wise).

    I'm 6'5" and as I've stated before there was legroom. But a major difference from the current model but enough to say that they looked into this as well. If all goes well with pricing what options (if any), I'm getting one, sedan that is... Headroom was good with enough hiproom, but I'm 36 waist so of course it would be fine :-)

    If driver legroom is your concern, you should be fine ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In the "Scoop" photo, that is none other than rally driver Ramana Lagemann behind the wheel. The other guy is Alex' side kick, I forget his name, from i Club.

    But this is good - Ramana is a giant. He towered over me. I'd say he's 6'3" at least.

    Now I'm glad you asked me. He is sort of leaning over in that pic, though.

    Battery was not live. Bob is RSHolland here from Edmunds, but he's not tall enough to test the limits of headroom.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bingo

    http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288086953

    I'm 6', look how much taller he is.

    -juice
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    Okay so the picture pointed to in message #842 is the same guy as in the "Scoop!" picture (driver's seat)??

    as long as Ramana (guy I am referring too) doesn't have the back rest back in that "Scoop!" photo they have improved headroom a great deal

    and Juice if your friends with a Subaru Rally driver you should own one of every model! and if you get an extra I am always able to take a car or two!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    give or take...

    I think Ramana is about 6'4" or more.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, that's Ramana (right) in the photo next to me (left).

    -juice
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Is it just me, or does the new moonroof not extend as far back as the current dual moonroof design?

    Is it as large as the Foresters?
  • spindoctorspindoctor Member Posts: 5
    Has anyone seen the leather colors being offered in the Legacy or the Outback?
  • morphiemorphie Member Posts: 95
    The McIntosh system is no longer available on the 2005's. Does anyone have an idea as to the specifications for the "new" sound system? The need-desire site is a bit sparse in that area.
  • temartintemartin Member Posts: 1
    All...thought it would be a good time to jump in, since there's a lot of talk about interior room. Does anyone have any info on rear legroom compared to the old Legs? I can't find specs on it anywhere. It is critical in my buying decision. (Looking at the GT Wagon)
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    There will still be a dual moonroof on the wagons. Hard to tell how big it is from the pics. Maybe one of our comrades who's been to the auto show can help out.
  • muddmudd Member Posts: 3
    Does anyone know if there are any instrument panel night shots of the non turbo outback on in the internet? I would love to see what the analog gauges at night look like

    Thanks
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    It's a dual moonroof in the respect that it has a 2-part split, but functionally it's a one-holer. The front section is 6" wide and tilts upward to form a wind deflector. The back section is like a "typical" moonroof that slides back into the roof. The advantage is that in this new version the driver/front passenger once again get a wide-open view of the sky - a mighty fine improvement IMHO.
  • thepdmmthepdmm Member Posts: 82
    hey thanks for the interior headroom help..

    all that is really left to do is wait on the car!! but you have given the car enough reason to wait on!! I guess the other candidates can wait!!
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    is the same size as the current model. In addition to what Rob said, the opening looks bigger because now you can 'see from the inside' that both glass parts connect. So, if you think about it, I'd say there is more sunroof and less interior roof linen/padding/or whatever you want to call it....
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The need-desire has me a bit confused. Are the side impact airbags and curtains standard on the 2.5i sedans (and therefore, across the board) or just the GT sedans?

    Stunning automobile in black.
    Juice, great photo album, thanks for re-posting the link.

    What kind of MPG estimates is anyone willing to make for the non-turbo H4? Similar or better than current?

    ~alpha
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I'd say 28/23
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I am hoping for 30/23. The current model get 28 on the highway.
  • muddmudd Member Posts: 3
    I've only seen the outback h6 with tan leather and the turbo with black. Will we be able to get say, silver outback h6 with black interior, or are we only getting tan?

    Thanks
  • mjc440mjc440 Member Posts: 76
    I haven't seen the color selections yet, but I doubt tan will be the only color choice on an Outback. Can you imagine how bad a silver car would look with a tan interior? My guess is that both black and tan will be available on both the Legacy and Outback models (but not across all colors; i.e. if you choose a silver exterior, then you must get a black interior).
  • mjc440mjc440 Member Posts: 76
    I know Subaru will recommend premium fuel for the turbo H4. Does anyone know what fuel grade Subaru recommends for the 2005 naturally aspirated H4?
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    The NA H4 will require regular fuel, where the turbo and H6 engines both require premium.
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    The NA H4 will require regular fuel, where the turbo and H6 engines both require premium.
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