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Comments
I have a hunch SoA has kept the trim and other equipment on the new Legacy pretty lean so that no Legacy model, up to and including the Legacy GT LTD, hits $30K MSRP. The marketing and perceived competition for the new Outback is decidedly different: they are taking on the BMW X3, the Audi allroad, the Volvo XC70, the Nissan Murano/Infiniti FX35 and the Lexus RX330 for size and performance , if not upper-end luxury features. I'll even wager that NAV will be available as an option in the upper trim levels by the time the 05 Outback hits the dealer lots. That "crossover" look has already taken on a second meaning: $$$!
Mark
Cadillac built too many V8 SRXs at first, people wanted the cheaper V6. So even luxury crossovers are price-sensitive.
-juice
It is beyond me how an XT can only get 17/23. A W8 Passat wagon with an automatic tranny and AWD gets 18/25 (a 745 Li gets 18/26). Of course the Passat has a gas guzzler tax of $1,200 because it is not an "SUV". I guess they should bump up the ground clearance to save their customers some money. ; ^ )
I wish Subarus were more efficient. Hopefully the '05 models will be.
Then look at the cargo area, the carpets are tucked in nicely, no visible seams. Even Mercedes leaves some seams visible in there.
Add scuff plates for the doors, better seats, more features, more room, and I think they pretty much nailed it.
-juice
WEIGHT
-FXT weighs 3210, which is 80 pounds heavier than the FXS Premium.
-04 Legacy L sedan weighs 3285, minus 180 pounds for the 05s (so says Subaru), plus 80 pounds for turbo (or so), gives you 3185 lbs. for new GT sedan.
[Granted the current L may not have all the interior options of the GT sedan, so it may weigh up to 100 pounds more than the estimate above.]
DRAG
-FXT has 0.35
-Legacy sedan will have 0.28
GEARING
-FXT: Final drive (4.444) and Fifth (0.738)
-Legacy: Final drive (4.111) and Fifth (0.738)
ENGINE IMPROVEMENTS
-Legacy has improved efficency 2.5L boxer (not sure if that applies to GT or not)
So adding all those things together, I don't feel my estimates are exceedingly optimistic, but I do agree they are optimistic. 18/24 seems like the minimum given it'd look very weird (to potential buyers) for the Legacy GT to have worse mileage than the STi.
kevin111: Thanks for the suggestions about other cars to test out. The RX-8 is pushing it as far as our sporting tendencies go though (ruling out the Evo, Z, STi, and S2000), and the other two are a bit too expensive. I'd say today we're learning towards comfort and functionality, hence the Legacy GT. It changes everyday though, and may change if the base GT is too expensive when the prices are released.
I am especially curious about the interior and handling of the GT vs. the RX8.
From testdriving the RX8, I was very impressed with the suspension set-up. Had a compliant ride while still having excellent handling.
GEARING
-FXT: Final drive (4.444) and Fifth (0.738)
-Legacy: Final drive (4.111) and Fifth (0.738)
At 75 mph my '01 OB MT runs at 3,500 RPM. Several others have posted in the past how surprised they were on how high their engines ran at highway speeds, too.
I really, REALLY like the direction that Subaru is taking with the styling, interior and performance with the new model. I wish they had addressed the high gearing at the same time. Unless you're looking for a stoplight racer, there's just no reason for a turbo engine that puts out as much horsepower and torque as the new model needs to rev so high at highway speeds. Mileage, noise and vibration could all be improved with lower gearing.
The weight difference should not be significant. The aerodynamics only come into play at higher speeds, so that might get +1mpg highway. But the taller final drive helps there also, maybe +2mpg highway total.
It's hard to improve city mileage, though.
By that theory it would be 18/25.
-juice
juice: Forgot about the moonroof weight. I know you're upset about no moonroof with cloth interior, but I'm glad they removed it. I'm 6'7" and my head is almost scraping the roof on my 00 GT wagon.
Here's my kid popping out of the new wagon's roof:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291571095&p=4188015605- &idx=3
-juice
Interestingly enough they just had it sitting out there with all the other cars, with nothing to distinguish it as being the new model. I don't think most people realized what it was. Stealth marketing?
As an aside - I also got the chance to get inside an X3. Talk about tinny doors and cheap looking trim. I'd post that on the FXT / vs. X3 vs. FX board, but listening to the BMW whiners has really gotten tiresome for me.
-Brian
Then again, maybe not, demand will be high and so will prices!
-juice
The most exciting part was when i was speaking with a few of the subaru reps, and they all seem to have a general consensus that this car can be had for about 38-39k canadian, which is an absolute steel.
Just gauging the crowd reaction to this wagon and it was positive, i found it very amusing once people actually took the time to read the specs on the vehicle and all i kept hearing over and over was holy cow this car will have 250hp/250tourqe!
I think i will opt for the automatic when she comes out, does any have any performance figures for the auto compared to the manual?????
Thank you.
The new Legacy seems to have locked crosshairs on the segment, and I feel this car will fully poise Subaru to gain market share and increase profit margins as more and more people look towards AWD vehicles. Specifically, and contrary to many others here, I am interested in the Legacy 2.5i, non-turbo, as an alternative to the mainstream midsize sedans currently available. If this car, w/ AWD, side curtains, automatic and a reasonable amount of amenities... comes in around $23,000- it will very likely be the next car my parents purchase, in October of this year.
It seems to be the perfect size- bigger than the Impreza but not supersize midsize like the current crop of Camry/Accord/Altimas. The base engine is proven, and in this tweaked form- seems to offer plenty of power- and promises slightly better fuel economy than the current version. The interior looks to be high quality and well styled, judging from the website, and Subaru has a decent track record for reliability, and consistently scores well in NHTSA and IIHS crash tests. Whats not to like? As long as the car does not completely sacrifice ride for handling, I feel that this car, more than any offering before, should have Toyota and Honda paying attention.
I really cannot wait to see the entire line of Legacy/Outback at NYIAS (please tell me the full line will be in that show....)
When is full information (pricing/colors/options) expected to be available?
Thanks!
Happy motoring,
~alpha
color selector makes the car look a bit fake but hey it is computer generated (it seems)..
anybody 6'3" or taller been in the front seat of a limited yet?? I tried the cinncy auto show and the *** didn't have an 05 legacy there! they did have 9 other models though!!??
The amount of space is the same, but the seats are completely different. The GT has those extended bolsters and taller shoulders.
I'm 6' but I had room to spare in both.
-juice
I also know the wheel base is longer so that could help headroom! but for the life of me I can't get a number on the front headroom! (w/ sunroof, GT Limited) or any of the 05s for that matter
Look over the pics we have in the album, both Bob and I took pics and they're all here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288069365
There are loads of pics of the 2005s we saw at NAIAS.
-juice
thanks for the album url juice!
I'm 6'5" and as I've stated before there was legroom. But a major difference from the current model but enough to say that they looked into this as well. If all goes well with pricing what options (if any), I'm getting one, sedan that is... Headroom was good with enough hiproom, but I'm 36 waist so of course it would be fine :-)
If driver legroom is your concern, you should be fine ;-)
But this is good - Ramana is a giant. He towered over me. I'd say he's 6'3" at least.
Now I'm glad you asked me. He is sort of leaning over in that pic, though.
Battery was not live. Bob is RSHolland here from Edmunds, but he's not tall enough to test the limits of headroom.
-juice
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288086953
I'm 6', look how much taller he is.
-juice
as long as Ramana (guy I am referring too) doesn't have the back rest back in that "Scoop!" photo they have improved headroom a great deal
and Juice if your friends with a Subaru Rally driver you should own one of every model! and if you get an extra I am always able to take a car or two!
I think Ramana is about 6'4" or more.
Bob
-juice
Is it as large as the Foresters?
Thanks
all that is really left to do is wait on the car!! but you have given the car enough reason to wait on!! I guess the other candidates can wait!!
Stunning automobile in black.
Juice, great photo album, thanks for re-posting the link.
What kind of MPG estimates is anyone willing to make for the non-turbo H4? Similar or better than current?
~alpha
Thanks