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Comments
Bob
Long Island
Interesting that it had "optional" mud-and-snow tires! The Spec B comes standard with "summer" performance tires.
Bob
-r
The best 17" wheel deal going are 17x7, 48mm offset BBS RK's. They are being sold by SAAB dealers at low prices because once GM sold their shares in Subaru, the 9-2 is going away and they are excess. I paid $500 for four at Charles River (Watertown, MA) SAAB on eBay. According to other buyers they will sell them for $500 for 4 including BBS center hubs and shipping.
BBS RK's usually sell for over $250 each. They weigh exactly 18 lbs, substantially lighter than the stock alloy rim.
still to large, even the six gets poor mileage. Saab 9-3 wagon only 1 dealer with in 90 miles at it's sticker plus, BMW 3 wagon Yes Please but $45,000.00. Volvo noway. So I drove the Outback it's small by Durango or even Trailblazer standards but it gets over 25 MPG. all wheel drive and it fits in the postage stamp assigned space. It's a little large then the BMW and Saab, with a very nice interior given its a sub $30,000.00 unit. The dealer easy to work with and the deal was very good, I like deep discounts. My oldest daughter took the Durango, or I got taken for it. The first week was a real adjustement but so far so good. Now I undersand why imports even if it's made in the U.S.A. have GM and Ford on the ropes. If only the Outback was 8" higher.
Why is the Indiana-built Subaru a non-American car, but the German owned Dodge is an "American" car?
The OBW is tall, long, and relatively narrow compared to most competitors.
I guess that Subaru decided to not package the latter into the 2.5 Limited. Though, as you probably know, a power passenger seat is standard on the more expensive XT, 3.0R LL Bean, and 3.0R VDC models.
Congratulations on your new vehicle.
A good buddy of mine had been shopping around for a new car and he finally decided to pull the trigger on a Legacy GT Spec B this weekend.
The Spec B he purchased had been sitting on the dealer's lot for about 3 months. They wanted to move it so they sold it to him at invoice without even blinking an eye. Personally, I think he could have gotten even more, but my friend was happy with the price.
Anyway, after picking it up, he stopped by my house and let me drive it a few blocks.
My impressions:
- The overall vehicle looks much nicer in person. From the early photos, I thought the 18" wheels didn't look right, but up close, they look great.
- The dark silver is really a nice color. It was raining yersterday and the combination of the beading rainwater, chromed headlights (vs. 05 models), chrome accent on side skirts and wheels really flowed together well.
- The interior red is not as garish as I had thought. It's a fairly warm and subdued tone that works quite well with the rest of the vehicle.
- The ride, in my very limited test drive, was not very harsh at all. If I wasn't surrounded by the red leather and with a Navi system glowing on the center console, I would think it was a regular LGT sedan.
One interesting note regarding power delivery that's not specifically related to the Spec B -- I didn't really get as much of a "wow" driving the 5MT this time. When I was shopping for my LGT wagon two years ago, I felt a marked difference in the power delivery when driving a 5MT vs. 5EAT version.
However, this time around, I drove a regular LGT sedan (no pre-purchase Spec B test drives) and my friend's new Spec B. While I did notice a power delivery difference, it just wasn't as marked as it was before. While there certainly is a new vs. broken-in engine difference, I wonder if I was seeing the difference of a new vs. learned 5EAT.
Ken
I'm finding that with my new WRX, I'm not as impressed with the power as I once was—until I go drive my wife's Forester or son's OB-S.
Bob
I don't know if I can go back to driving a slower car anymore- it might even be dangerous!
I remember when getting to 60mph in under 9 seconds seemed pretty fast to me (back when all cars were terribly underpowered- uh, the last gas crunch) but now anything that doesn't do 60 in under 6 sec is too slow. I guess the adage that power corrupts is true.
tom
I'm old enough to remember car magazines raving about the old BMW 2002 doing 0-60 in 10.5 seconds, and any car running sub-12 second 0-60 as being "quick."
Now out-and-out luxury sedans (RR, Lexus LS460) run sub-6 second 0-60 times!
Bob
Ken
Now it's more like under 7 to be quick, under 5 to impress anyone, and that's among affordable cars!
-juice
The MazdaSpeed is an impressive hot-rodding job, but is a one-off.
ateixeira, "MAZDASPEED Mazda6" #661, 6 Dec 2005 1:39 pm
Though keep in mind Mazda is having issues with heat soak on the engines, owners are losing power when this happens.
-juice
Claimed power and torque be damned, the MS6 does not feel as potent below 4000 rpm as the Legacy GT.
However, the first rant that inspired this line of discussion is WAAAAY off the mark. The cars are close, and different people will have different preferences. In the linked article, you can see that at least one Edmunds tester preferred the spec.B-- what in the world prompted a jump to the notion of Mazda supplying a hand-tuned superior car? :confuse:
Sorry, I don't buy that.
~Colin
But yes, these cars are close. That would explain why you see some magazines rating one over the other.
However, if I were in the market, I'd be a little wary of the MS6 since it looks like Mazda's going through some teething pains with repsect to engine tuning right now.
Ken
It's interesting that the Edmunds article didn't consider the Spec B much more an improvement over the GT. For a few $K you could build up a GT that handles better than the MS6.
I think Subaru needs a Legacy STi, which might be more along parallel lines to the MS6 as a high performance version of the Legacy. I still think of the GT and Spec B more as 'Touring' cars. They're certainly not a match for an M3. But an STi version might be. . .
tom
The Speed6 has summer tires also, so those two are just a lot more comparable.
The '07 spec.B will be more distinguished - 6 speed trans for instance. I'd like to see stiffer spring rates too.
-juice
Not sure I like the idea of summer tires. I have no complaints whatsoever with my 215/45x17 RE92 all-season tires on my WRX. I know there are many who hate those tires, but in the size I have, they are fine. Not great in the snow—but at least they're legal driving in the snow; not so with summer tires.
Bob
My wife's car has them, and I'm almost certain the tread and even the construction is substantially different than the tires on your car.
Hers are 205/60R15!
-juice
Legacy GT's have RE92's.
Outbacks have RE92A's.
And who knows what else.
http://www.bridgestonetire.com/tireselector/index_bs.asp?pagesource=searchbyvehi- cle
If you would rather have tires that actually grip the ground when it gets wet, try something else.
tom
Please reply with any info on this.... Thanks!
what kind of hitch are you buying. i'm looking for a hitch myself. let me know $$ and how long it took you to install.
thanks
pic below.
-juice
Mark
-06 Bean OBW
Okay, I'll accept that Subaru engineers know more about the metallurgy and seal formulation than a shade tree mechanic like me. But I have been changing oil in automobiles for over 30 years and have never experienced oil consumption or leaks after switching back and forth between synthetic and mineral oils.
So explain to me what you mean when you say that Subaru engines become "accustomed" to either synthetic or mineral oil.
As far as the oil change intervals recommended by Subaru, I must agree that they should be followed as published in the owners manual. Even though the distinctions between normal duty and severe duty are somewhat vague.
Subaru likes to promote itself as an environmentally responsible manufacturer. Perhaps Subaru should equip its vehicles will oil life monitors like many less expensive vehicles (Toyota Camry, for example). Changing oil more often than necessary is not kind to the environment.
gearhead4
How much power is enough? That's largely dependant on what you want to do. I think the 175hp 2006 Outback has adequate power for day to day driving. Go with the manual transmission and you will get better performance and much better fuel economy. But if you are towing a trailer up a mountain, you definitely need the H6.
For quick sprints, you can't beat the 2.5 turbo with a manual transmission.
The 2006 model has a 2.5 engine with 7 more HP than the 2005. The 2006 also comes with the engine immobilizer security system. I think it also has improved side collision protection.
I also like the appearance of the 06 wheels and the Atlantic Blue on Blue color combination.
-Jim
Try this webpage for lots of detailed info on the 2005 and 2006 Outback. There's even a summary of what's new for 2005.
Ken
-17" wheels, vs. 16" on the 2005
-engine immobilizer included
-key fob buttons recessed to reduced accidental presses
-improved side impact protection, as evidenced in IIHS tests
-slightly improved HP and torque, via the addition of a version of variable-valve timing
-cabin air filtration standard
I wouldn't bother with a 2005 when these improvements can be had with the 2006s. Plus, the 2006s have $2000 rebates now, and I'd guess they can be had for at least $4500 below MSRP.
I have a 2005 OB XT, by the way, which I bought from Joe, the operator of the cars101 site. I'm pretty happy with it, although the clutch action is poor. I've always driven a stick, but this car is the only one I've found so easy to stall. If only Subaru had VW's DSG transmission!
As for mileage, I don't know about the six, other than what the EPA sticker says. I probably get about 16 and 24 with the XT. I'd expect 3-4 mpg better with the base engine.
Doug
One other thing, the changes for the 2006 XTs were fewer than for the base-engined models:
-key fob buttons recessed to reduced accidental presses
-improved side impact protection, as evidenced in IIHS tests
-cabin air filtration standard
These tests were made against a Subaru Legacy so it's somewhat debatable how much they apply to a taller Outback:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=259
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=602
"Beginning with 2006 models, changes were made to the side structure, front seats, and front seat-mounted torso airbags to improve occupant protection in side impact crashes."
These crash tests are different from the NHTSA and ANCAP tests because they use a barrier that's designed to approximate the height and weight of a mid-sized SUV. Thus the test is tougher.
Also note how for the Outback (and Legacy), the performance in the head restraint test also improved in the 2006's:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/head_subaru.html
I didn't put the Outback on my short list until the 2006 changes were made.
I didn't say it - SOA did. I think it's idiotic.
Our Chevy van - $20,510 - has an oil life system.
I know very little about engines in general or oil in particular so forgive me if my question seems off-base.
I think I understand what you were saying in an earlier post about how things have changed since "the early days" of synthetic oil. But I am wondering if you agree with Samian_68, lilengineerboy, & locke2c, (post #s 8695, 8696, & 8697) regarding synthetic oil adversely affecting break-in? If so, would you say that switching back and forth after break-in is ok? And, when would break-in be complete? Could you hedge your bets by using some sort of
pre-mixed combination? Would that be more or less expensive than straight synthetic?
I am interested since we just bought a newer used 2005 2.5i 4 cyl Legacy/OB. The in-service date is 4/05 and the vehicle has approximately 20,100 miles. My local dealer picked it up at Auction and Carfax tells me it is a former Texas daily rental. We did have a mechanic check it out and there are no apparent oil issues resulting from the Texas temperature extremes. If it matters, we are in the Boston, MA area, so we have the New England weather (Winter in particular) to deal with.
I know that synthetic oil is recommended for engines prone to oil sludge problems but I haven't seen any indication that might be a problem with any Subarus. Does synthetic oil improve gas mileage, or engine performance in other respects? I know that the occasional Subaru will develope piston slap; if memory serves correctly some owners have seen modest improvement using Castrol 10x30.
On the other extreme I have heard that Pennzoil can cause some sort of crud build-up.
In summary, should I avoid Syn during break-in? When would break-in be complete? Are there any advantages to Syn? Could I hedge my bets using a pre-mixed Dino/Syn combo? Would that be more expensive than Syn? Do you have any recommendation on brand? Would oil changes every 3,750 be adequate? Finally, do you recommend changing the oil filter with every oil change?
This is the closest thing to a brand new car I am likely to have for the next ten years or more so I am anxious to take good care of it. I would appreciate your feedback.
~Cath
Some of my previous posts have digressed quite a bit into technical bits that may or may not be all that relevant to every day situations. Let me try to answer your questions as concisely as possible.
#1 Break-in occurs within the first few hundred miles of operation. Some manufacturers rate it as 500 miles, others 1,000. During break-in you must avoid steady, sustained RPM (the manuals sometimes simplify this to say 'don't use cruise control') and also high load on the engine which they often simplify to 'stay below 4,000 rpm and avoid wide-open throttle'. After break-in is complete, you can use your engine however you want as long as it is warmed up and properly maintained.
#2 Synthetic oil is superior in every way to mineral oil and has absolutely no drawbacks other than cost. Engines simply will last longer using it than they would if they did not. As with anything in life, there are no guarantees and even a Honda running synthetic will wear out eventually. Miles are wear and wear will require replacement, at some point.
#3 Synthetic oil is so good that the filter is the reason for the change interval, especially on cars that utilize a standard screw-on type small filter. The filter has a limited surface area and becomes contaminated typically within 4,000 - 5,000 miles. BMW and some other brands use a larger cartridge type of filter that is more expensive but lasts longer, so with synthetic those cars can use change intervals of 7,500 miles or greater.
#4 Gas mileage based on oil has everything to do with oil weight and nothing to do with synthetic vs. conventional. Subarus use either 5w30 or 10w30 from the factory and the owner's manual specifies a large range of oils that are suitable depending on the conditions. Heavier oil will cause more resistance against the crankshaft which will result in less economy, but it shouldn't be hardly measureable-- maybe 1-2 MPG at the most. A driver's right foot has a lot more to do with MPG than oil weight.
#5 Synthetic blends are rarely worth it. For the premium you should just use a full synthetic to get the maximum benefit, or if you are on a budget just use a good quality conventional oil.
In conclusion I would say that if you can afford to use Mobil1 10w30 every 4,000 - 5,000 miles and a premium filter (Subaru brand or Purolator) you are doing everything that you can from an oil standpoint for your new Subaru. Do that and forget about the rest.
~Colin
IT guy at an oil company and car hobbyist mechanic
Thanks for the concise but thorough response. Your bottom line recommendation sounds pretty simple and straight-forward.
I'm guessing Synthetic oil is more important for high performance engines or those engines prone to oil sludge problems.
Regarding the break-in period, it could be a long time before that's an issue for me. The lowest mile car I ever bought was a 1997 OB Sport with about 4,200 miles and it was 2 1/4 years old. (Yes, that's 4,200 not 42,000). Up until I bought this 2005 Legacy OB that was the closest thing to a new car I'd ever bought.
I may never buy a new car. Let the other guy take the hit on depreciation. I only bought this one because my 1997 OB Sport fell victim to a flying slab of granite countertop.
~Cath
There was a recall in 2005 on Legacy sedans only, in which the placement of the side airbags was changed to better protect the occupants in test situations similar to those done by IIHS.
The 2005 Legacy sedan and wagon was awarded top rating for crash safety in Australia. This goes to show that performance in crash tests may vary depending on the details of the test. It is probably a mistake to assume that the 2005 Legacy wagon is unsafe in the real world based on IIHS tests only.