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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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    dudleyfdudleyf Member Posts: 10
    I have never noticed that type of behavior and I am a fairly aggressive driver. I will try it and see how my car responds.

    Aggressive alone doesn't do it. I've never experienced this when accelerating hard from a dead stop. It seems to be that unique combination of circumstances where you are cruising at some speed fast enough to be in 5th, then begin slowing down to 10-15 mph, then punch it again.

    It just appears to dumbfound the transmission for a second or two, and of course, with drive-by-wire, it holds the gas off too while it thinks it over. Once it decides what to do it takes off like a bat out of heck. It's just those two seconds where it does nothing that are kind of frustrating.

    Oh, the car has almost 6k miles on it now, so I'm confident it's not still "learning" us.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester is a bit smaller and feels a bit more tossable. The cargo area is very upright, good for boxy items.

    The Legacy is more refined and comfy. The cargo floor is much bigger, but the area isn't as tall.

    I'd pick a Forester for city use, a Legacy for highway stretches.

    -juice
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    dudleyfdudleyf Member Posts: 10
    Situations like that are one reason we have 3 cars for 2 drivers. Great to have a spare car.

    Couldn't agree more. Since we got our `07 Outback Bean the wife has been pestering me to sell my `99 Maxima SE, oldest of our three cars w/160k. I refuse to though; it still runs great, is a nice convenience to have a 3rd car, AND it's the only one I have left with a manual tranny!
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I didn't care for the driving position in the Forester. IMO it feels similar to the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix and Scion Xa in that it felt high up to me. The Chevy HHR felt similar as well.
    The Legacy feels much lower to me (which I see as a positive) even though it is several inches higher than the car I usually drive. The Outback, I would imagine, is somewhere in between.
    I have recently been able to enjoy driving a Legacy wagon in less than ideal weather. Its pretty amazing, driving sanely it feels like a little tank, driven stupidly, it feels like some type of ski or snow toy.
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Outback actually has more about 1/3" more ground clearance than Forester, and 2.5" more than Legacy. Despite this, Forester is the tallest and feels the most upright, though, I think. Legacy definitely feels the lowest of this group.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I measured the hip point of several Subies a while back, plus my Miata:

    Miata: 13" (talk about low)
    Legacy 2.5i sedan: 17.5"
    Impreza RS sedan: 20" (surprise, much higher than the Legacy)
    Outback XT: 22"
    Tribeca: 26"

    I didn't measure my Forester, maybe I should!

    Any how, note that in the OB you sit a good 5" or so above the point in the Legacy. Plus or minus an inch given the adjustment range.

    I think the Forester falls between the OB and Tribeca.

    -juice
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    rudikamprudikamp Member Posts: 34
    What is the reason that Subaru is against using synthetic
    oil in their engines? Mercedes, Porsche,Audi,and BMW come from the factory with synthetic.
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    samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    How do you measure hip points? Are the seats all adjusted the same way, i.e. all the way up or all the way down?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They aren't necessarily against, in fact we hosted a chat with some of their senior techs and the only caution they gave us was to do the switch early, before 15k miles.

    Perhaps the STI should come that way from the factory. It's probably just overkill. My friend is VP of a construction company and their trucks typically go 250k miles on conventional oil without a problem. It's usually something else that breaks, not the engine.

    -juice
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    samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Subaru is not against synthetic oil. I use it all the time. You should wait until 7500 or 15,000 miles though before using synthetic. Give the engine a chance to break in.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Same as what the other guys have said. Most of our customers switch over to Amsoil (we are an Amsoil Dealer) around 10k miles and run the fully synthetic 5w-30 in there. I run the same in my Armada. As for the race car since it has 150k miles we keep dino in there since it's such high milage.

    -mike
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    subarufaqsubarufaq Member Posts: 3
    Unfortunately, I got the same problem in my 2005 Legacy.

    I wonder if the replacement of the fuse or connector is covered by the warranty.
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    rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    I just burnt out my 4th headlight today. The 3rd was on Monday. This is my second set of Silverstars, so I don't believe that this falls under the 'bad batch of bulbs theory'.

    First bulb - 18k. Second bulb - 28k. Third and Fourth at 37k. Rob M.
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    paulotterstedtpaulotterstedt Member Posts: 9
    I am in the market for a new Subaru. I want something safe, reliable, fun to drive, able to tow a small (less than 1000 pound) trailer short distances, and with a stick shift. I am considering an Impreza WRX wagon, a Legacy Wagon, and a Legacy GT sedan. I am leaning to the WRX wagon but my wife would be more comfortable with the bigger and safer Legacy as I commute on a dangerous stretch of I-95.

    Consumer Reports seems to give the Legacy models a 1/2 red circle, the same as the Impreza turbo models. However, I seem to hear of more anecdotal evidence about reliability issues with the Legacy. In particular, Car and Driver or Motor Trend had a long-term Legacy GT with lots of issues (exacerbated by them filling it with Diesel!), and I seem to have seen some similar posts here. Any thoughts on reliability of WRX wagon vs Legacy non-turbo wagon vs. Legacy GT sedan? Also, has anyone driven all of these? Fun to drive for me is more about tight, responsive steering and good handling than straight line performance.

    Thanks very much.
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    erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Both are nice. Get the one that appeals to you.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you're gonna tow, in my experience the Outback and Forester are pre-wired with a harness, and the Legacy isn't. That may not be a big deal to you, but you won't have to splice any wires.

    For my '98 Forester, it was plug-n-play for the trailer wiring on the OE hitch. They cost more but it was worth it for that reason alone.

    -juice
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I think all of them fit your bill. I think the anecdotal evidence on reliability also peaks with new models. The recent Legacy platform was released as a 2005 model. The Impreza line will have theirs next year.

    I believe the Car and Driver experience is not indicative of most experiences. I recall Automobile magazine having nothing but positive things to say about their Four Seasons test of an LGT wagon. Every car magazine has their biases and at the end of the day, a long term test is just one data point.

    Ken
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    If you're gonna tow, in my experience the Outback and Forester are pre-wired with a harness, and the Legacy isn't. That may not be a big deal to you, but you won't have to splice any wires.

    For my '98 Forester, it was plug-n-play for the trailer wiring on the OE hitch. They cost more but it was worth it for that reason alone.

    The Legacy (at least the 2005 wagon) was plug-n-play as well. It requires feeling around a bit inside the d/s rear panel for the plug but its sitting right there. The hitch was also bolt on as well, although it might sit a little lower than I like.
    We've been big fans of craigslist and ebay for finding furniture, so the Legacy occasionally gets to pull our new finds home in a U Haul trailer, which it does without complaint. It also holds a hitch mounted bike rack a lot of the time.
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If you have time, wait for the all new 08 Impreza WRX, to be on sale this summer. The outgoing 07 model is a good car, but has been around since the spring of 2001 and is getting dated (though it did get fairly significant refreshes along the way).

    My feeling is that the reliability of all the cars are more or less the same. We have owned Outbacks, a Forester, and a WRX, and they were all great cars -- no major issues on any of them.

    2007 is the last year for the Legacy GT wagon, so get one soon if you decide on that model.
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Oh and I think the towing capacity of the Legacy/Outback is 2700 lbs and the Forrester is 2400. Not too big a difference but I think its because the Forrester is Impreza based.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wouldn't put too much weight on results from a magazine that put diesel in a gasoline car. DUH! :D

    I mean, no wonder they had issues. What else did they forget?

    -juice
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    samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I wonder how they got the diesel dispenser nozzle to fit into a gasoline tank opening.

    I don't like C&D much anymore. Not because of the diesel, but because they don't have anything really useful or interesting in the magazine anymore. The writers just like to show off their linguistic shenanigans, while, at the same time, forgetting to have substance in their writeups.

    They might as well rename C&D to Motor Trend 2.0.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree, they've gone way downhill. They never even mentioned why Brock Yates left (not that I was crazy about him).

    -juice
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree, they've gone way downhill. They never even mentioned why Brock Yates left (not that I was crazy about him).

    -juice
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    zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I was always disgusted with how he was allowed to peddle his wares in his articles. I remember the one with him babbling about a book his wife had written. Almost made me vomit.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    He'd even mention cars he was selling, like his H2. Leave that for the classifieds, please. :mad:

    -juice
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yeah, I can't say I miss Yates a whole lot, but they could have handled/explained his disappearance better. Made me suspect the parting was not mutual.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Yates parting was not mutual. Csaba Csere did say that he took "early retirement" in his editorial in the first issue that was printed without Yates.

    Yates says he was fired:

    http://www.onelapofamerica.com/whatsNew/index.shtml?0112

    IMHO - thank goodness. Yates had become nothing but a blowhard who used his column for political rants, the shilling of his books, and the constant reminders that it was he who invented the Cannonball Run.
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 237,196
    I never liked him.. Plus, The Gumball Rally was a much better film than the slapstick crap in his movies...

    Anyway... I think he was fired..

    I agree.. the magazine has really gone downhill, and their new look is really bad..

    The guy that really bugs me is Patrick Bedard.. For an engineer, he really gets stuff backwards.. (you know.. with me being an expert, and all. :surprise: )

    Six long columns at the beginning of the magazine.. never fails to put me to sleep..

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    zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Wow. I have never found a forum for expressing my views about him. I had no idea that others felt the same way.
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    nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    The thing I don't like about them is their reluctance to do more tests on trucks and SUVs. They say their title is more than specific, they like only cars. That's why the new gen OB (XT) has not been compared. Or the Forester Turbo against their rivals (they only explain that the whole lineup of one model was better than the rest of their rivals in their 5Best Trucks). Same for the B9.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, they never including the Tribeca in any comparos.

    I think they've compared the Forester twice. In 1998, it won. Around 2001 or so, it took 3rd or 4th in a large group.

    That's about it, though.

    -juice
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    gomogomo Member Posts: 6
    YES! The armrest extension is a MUST. I just traded my 04 Accord on a 07 2.5i L Sedan. The accord had it and I loved it. The dealer threw it in as a gimme out of their stock after I told him it was a deal breaker w/o it!
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    nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    10 days ago, here in Minnesota, the cold was like -20F. That day my OB made a big groan sound from underneath (I thought my muffler or a bearing was falling), especially when I turn left. The day after it did it again, but I didn't had the time to go to the dealer. Then it dissapeared. This morning I was reading an article on Canadian Driver on the Suzuki XL7, and the writer says the same happen to his car.
    My question is, how normal is underneath sounds on frozen mornings, specially when you left your car on the Walmart parking lot for 1 hour, and then you go?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Really depends on what it was. Lots of metals expand and contract as they heat and cool, that's why you hearing popping and cracking sounds when you walk away from a car on a hot day.

    Could be the other extreme of that - a really cold engine suddenly warming up.

    -juice
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Is this your first Subie or AWD car? I have noticed a few new/different noises and sensations when I drive a Subaru after driving the Accord.
    One of the sounds is the ABS self check, which is kind of a crunching/groaning noise from the rear which seems more pronounced on cold mornings. This is normal.
    One of the other sensations is as the differentials lock up in slippery conditions it can make a little bit of a groaning noise, especially when turning.
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    gomogomo Member Posts: 6
    Yup, first subie & AWD. I haven't heard the abs check or any other out of the ordinary sounds coming from it other than the intermitent function on the windshield wipers is REALLY annoying. You can hear the relay switch (clik) on the way up & the way down. Never noticed that on any other car. The one thing that bothers me is my steering wheel appears to be slightly cocked right when travelling on flat pavement. I tend to be picky and had the dealer check it out and they sent it out for alignment to keep me happy. This didn't correct the steering wheel issue though. Anyone out there experience this? Can the wheel simply be adjusted? Any recommendations?... :confuse:
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    rudikamprudikamp Member Posts: 34
    If your car has Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive ,
    why is VDC and TCS nessessary ?
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    romicvaromicva Member Posts: 6
    I've been trying to find answer to this question for a very long time. I'm very interested to hear the answer.

    Thank you.
    :confuse:
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Symetrical AWD means that power is split evenly, however the VDC system will apply the brake to a spinning wheel to prevent power from going to that wheel.

    Let's use round numbers as an example...

    Vehicle:
    Open Front and Rear Diffys
    No VDC, No ABLS, No TCS, No ESP (whatver your manufacturer calls it)

    Normal driving around torque is split 50% to the Front axle, 50% to the rear, 25% to each side on each axle.

    Front Left wheel slipping, no VDC/ABLS/TCS etc, your split will be:
    F/R Axle split 50/50
    L/R on Rear Axle 25/25
    L/R on Front Axle 50/0

    Front Left wheel slipping, w/VDC/ABLS/TCS etc, your split will be:
    F/R Axle split 50/50
    L/R on Rear Axle 25/25
    L/R on Front Axle 0/50

    See with that VDC/TCS/ABLS you will effectively be putting 100% power to surfaces with traction as opposed to the example above that where 50% of the power was on a slipping surface.

    In a case where both front or rear are slipping you will get the center diffy to move power Front or Rear opposite the slipping.

    -Mike
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    AWD generally only helps with forward motion/traction. Stability control (VDC) will help keep the vehicle pointed in the right direction, and help recover in skid/yaw scenarios. It governs directional control.

    The Subarus with VDC also fire the brakes to stop spinning wheels (ie, traction control), and this is merely one way to manage slippage. Other Subarus do it with more traditional mechanical differentials.

    Subaru actually has 4-5 unique AWD systems at this point, so there is a whole lot more to it than I covered here.

    Craig
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    VDC can also adjust engine torque and with the VTD&VDC systems, it can automatically adjust torque to other wheels as well.

    more here http://www.subaru.com/allwheeldrive/ver2005/index.jsp

    I can't say that SH-AWD is any better or worse than a VTD&VDC system.

    -Brian
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    pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    I was wondering if they are looking to lengthen the wheelbase of the 2008 Outback? I am not too tall (5'10), but I have the seat on my 2001 Outback Ltd wagon all the way back. Also, the passengers would like more room as well. That way, the back seat occupants would hopefully have more room too.

    I won't even mention the other wishes... memory seats, telescoping wheel.. LOL

    Thanks!
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Telescopic and memory are on 08 IIRC.

    -mike
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    That is what I have heard as well, but a wheelbase change will not happen until the next major redesign - if at all (and that is not '08).
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    09 is the redesign from what I hear.

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This one came out in 05 so if they stick to a 5 year cycle we'll only see a longer wheelbase model (which seems very likely) in MY2010. Calendar year 2009, like mike says.

    The new WRX is due for MY2008, as well as a significantly updated Tribeca, then a new Forester in MY2009. I seriously doubt they'll move the new Legacy/Outback up given they have plenty on their plates already.

    -juice
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    And being on a cycle that has all of your models change within 2 years of each other would make for peaky sales growth, I would think. Keep it spaced out a little for steady interest in new models.
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    pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    Thanks to everyone for the explanation.

    A revised Tribeca sounds like a good option for me as well. :) I have been looking for spy shots of this but have not seen any.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're not the only one. ;)

    Stick around, we should see them soon. NY show opens April 6.

    -juice
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