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Take the G35 as example, Infiniti didn't improve from its I35 which was a weak seller. To a less extensive but similarly, TL transformed. That is what needs to be done for GS.
My point is, after 7 years, GS is getting long in the tooth, but the 06 doesn't seems to change that much in the area of interior and exterior design, power train. Hopefully there will be more done to the suspension, handling etc.
Otherwise, GS will continue be the underdog.
From the photos and specs I prefer the M, but I'm sure the 2006 GS will be quite a car as well.
The issue for the GS line is simply that too much time has passed and the cars, while still quite good in my opinion, are no longer compelling buys in the current, quickly advancing marketplace.
~alpha
I read Nissan Fuga (M35, except with a 2.5 or 3.0 engine option) is all the rage in Japan, selling much better than expected. Toyota is going to speed up the introduction of Crown Mark something or other by several months to meet Fuga head on. Is that Crown the new LS?
Interesting M35/45 will not be Infiniti in Japan! Will GS be a Lexus there? What is the current GS called there? We know RL is a Honda Legend!
The current GS is called the Toyota Aristo, which comes in many more variations over there. Such as the previous GS was available with the straight 6 with twin-turbo's and AWD.
The current GS has been around too long, correct. It sold well in it's first 2-3 years. After that, due to styling that got old, and lack of upgrades to the lineup it tanked.
The Crown is not the next LS. THe crown is smaller than the LS430. I believe the crown shares the same platform as the Lexus GS. The Lexus LS430 has always been sold in Japan under the Toyota Celsior badge.
Sure you have seen the pics and spec's on the new
Avalon (avalon forum) Would be interested in your thoughts on it. I got to say, the interior and the 280hp engine is extremely appealing.
Can you compare to GS300/ES330
Thanks.
The thought process behind giving Avalon more displacement and more power than either ES330 or GS300 still eludes me. My guess is that Camry and ES will get the 3.5L motor for their '07 redesign. As for GS300, I know they dont want it to have too much power, or it would step on GS430's toes. Maybe GS will use the 3.0L motor until Lexus introduces a new V8? I dont know.
Edit: Ok I just saw the interior shot, gotta say very impressed. Its the best Toyota interior in history.
If anyone can post a pic of Crown, the Fuga fighter, we'd appreciate it. As a Nissan fan, I'm sure glad Fuga name is not exported. It sounds like some sort of sushi.
"Toyota officials confirmed a report in the Financial Times that the company will spend around $650 million over the next three years to bolster the Lexus brand in Europe."
An article on Lexus in Europe. Toy does have money to burn. It apparently spent the most money on the last F1 campaign, more than Ferrarri or MB.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0411/23/C01-13387.htm
That is incorrect. While horsepower generally isnt the same between Toyota and Lexus models, Camry, Avalon, ES, and RX have always and all indictations seem to be that they will continue to share engines. The only Lexus cars using different V6s than any Toyota models are IS and GS, and this is only because Supra was killed in 1998. Lexus is retiring the aging Inline 6. There will not be an inline replacement. IS and GS are going to use Vs. A new 3.0L direct injection V6 goes into GS300. The last info I heard about IS is that it will use Avalon's new 3.5L V6. My guess, at least for now, about Lexus' engine plans, is that RX, ES, and Camry will most likely continue to use the "old" 3.3L engine until their redesigns. I am thinking that perhaps for the '07 model year when the new Camry and ES hit, they will get the GS300's 3.0L motor, and Lexus may introduce a bigger V8, perhaps a 4.5 or maybe a 5.0, and bump GS300 up to GS350. It is also possible that instead of increasing displacement, Lexus could add hybrid power and call it the GS500h or something like that.
"I am thinking that perhaps for the '07 model year when the new Camry and ES hit, they will get the GS300's 3.0L motor"
ES, and Camry won't get new engine, because it will be hybrid for 2006. That is why Toyota doesn't mind Avalon have more hp than ES, and GS. Lexus been offically announced to have hybrid for all models.
As far as people are guessing how new GS will handling. Well, new GS is wider, lower, and longer wheel base, then it will handling better than current GS, no doubt about it.
But why would Toyota keep an old engine around though, when they have just released newer, more powerful, more advanced and efficient powerplants? The 3.3L is a bored out version of the old 3.0L, thats been around since the early 90s. It makes no sense to keep it in production as a 3rd V6. Toyota isnt GM.
Of course, the Avalon's 3.5L is a thoroughly reengineered version of the 4Runner/Tacoma 4.0L, with a shorter stroker and lower friction, high rev design, so anything is possible.
~alpha
It could happen, no doubt, I think its most likely to happen in an AWD hybrid edition if it happens at all.
My previous post was just to say that I dont think the Camry and ES will get the GS 3.0L V6. Thats not an engine thats scheduled to be produced in Kentucky, as far as I know...
~alpha
In any case, I dont think its as cut and dry as you see it. Theres a lot of production and manufacturing issues that you are overlooking, and I'm sure that Toyota has a great deal more expertise in figuring out how to engineer which vehicles at the best cost/volume/profit level. As far as I know, there are no plans for TMMK to produce the new 3.0L V6. Since most of the North American sold Camrys are sourced from TMMK, with a relatively small amount coming from Japan, it might not make economic sense to use the 3.0L in the Camry. Thats all Im saying.
Right now everything is very speculative, but I don't see the FWD/AWD Camry and ES platform sharing a powerplant with the RWD/AWD GS platform. I don't disagree that the 3.3L will go away, but I dont think its going away soon... it powers too many vehicles.
Question: How do we know that the next IS will have a 3.5L engine? All I've read is that there will be a hybrid power model called the IS350GT. That doesnt mean its going to be a 3.5L. The RX400h doesnt have a 4.0L engine, correct?
~alpha
(BTW, I'm a Lexus-phile having owned six of them.)
I'm not saying its not going to happen, or that it can't, Im just saying that it would be a big departure from the past for the Camry platform vehicles to share engines with upscale Lexus models.
"That'd be way more logical than putting the most powerful engine (3.5) in the cheapest cars and the less powerful engine (3.0) in the most expensive cars."
Its not that illogical if the 3.5L is the uplevel engine for cars like the Camry and standard on heavier FWD-biased AWD vehicles such as the RX, and the 3.0L is the lower tier engine for the GS, for example.
~alpha
I do have a feeling that the 3.3L will go away after a few years.
Nissan does use that VQ engine all over the place to cut cost.
3.5L:
Altima
Maxima
350Z
Murano
Quest
G35 Sedan/Coupe
M35
FX35
4.0L:
Pathfinder
Xterra
Frontier
Maybe Toyota is using the same approach with this new V6 engine. 3.5L for the large cars/SUV/trucks, and the 3.0L for the mid-size vehicles.
Thats completely incorrect. The 3.5L in the Avalon is actually a thoroughly reworked, short stroke, high rev derivative of the 4.0L in the 4Runner/Tacoma/Tundra. Crazy, eh?
~alpha
It appears Toyota has turned it's marketing kind of upside down. The new Avalon coming out in Feb. looks like a real competitor to the GS300 and in many ways the better car especially with the bigger engine and great looking interior. Your thoughts?
GS series- RWD or AWD, midsize sedan, premium label, emphasis on sport (allegedly increased with new generation, but definitely even the current generation, compared to the Avalon).
It seems to me that overlap will be primarily in price and feature content. Isnt it great to be a consumer? So much choice!
~alpha
---
So what other car is gonna use the 3.0L in the GS300?
Think Toyota wants to have it's leader in the Luxury field and not depend upon Lexus to fill this market segment alone.
~alpha
Apparently the GS430 will only be $2000USD more than the GS300 in australia. Would it be worth going for the GS430?
Back to the GS, I think if price is to compared with BMW 530, GS300 will be much cheaper with option considered.
European automakers posted mixed results. Solid C-Class volumes helped Mercedes join Land Rover, Volvo and Mini in beating their 2003 results, but sales slumped for the BMW brand, as well as for Audi, Porsche, Jaguar and Volkswagen. BMW car sales were down 29% and the 7-Series failed to reach even half of its November 2003 volume.
Luxury vehicles claimed over 12% of all light vehicle sales in November, their largest share this year. Lexus now has a solid lead in the segment, followed by BMW.
So its not all SUVs, although they indeed did well for Lexus in Nov. I'd expect to see a bit of an increase this year for the GX470, given that it now has enough power and torque to compete with the stronger entries in the class.
~alpha
Here's a link to BMW's Nov-04 Sales Numbers press release:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=wardsauto.story&STORY=/www/story/12-01-2004/0002557916&EDATE=WED+Dec+01+2004,+01:26+PM
It's best to look at the NOv-04 BMW numbers with grain of salt. Why? The 3-series is due for a redesign, therefore production is probably winding down and sales are slowing because alot of people would rather wait for the new one.
The 7-series is also due for a nip & tuck for 2005, so sales could be slow due to production change. The Z4 tanking is kinda strange though, it's only in it's second year but sales could be taking a hit because of the new SLK350, which is much improved over the old SLK.
YTD BMW *Car* sales are only down 7%. Not too bad considering the redesigns coming.
My '01 GS300 lease is up in Feb and I'd like to start making plans.