Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5

ateixeira · September 2005

Nobody's perfect. I don't except any new car to have zero recalls over its life.

-juice

nextmoon · September 2005

More info here:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103231

ateixeira · September 2005

Exhaust, OK.

At least they are giving everyone a loaner. You can keep the miles off your new ride.

-juice

mactavish1 · September 2005

It's a pain though.

My dealer said it would be a 10 min switch to an equiv car.

After an hour at enterprise they tried to send me home in a Dodge Durango. To get into the 3rd row you practically had to take out a middle seat and who know how much gas this would guzzle.

They then sent me to another rental firm who sent me home in an Uplander. I called first thing today to Mazda to say get me out of this piece of crap. It's like driving a school bus around.

If this is going to take a month I sure as hell want something decent.

I miss my 5, it's made me realise how much you get for your money with that car !

audia8q · September 2005

Maybe they could get you a new S-class.....

gee35coupe · September 2005

And he could puchase something else. I'm glad I didn't fit in the 5 or I would be in this mess. Where/How much R&D did they do to miss the chance of fires. Nissan made the same mistake though with the Van. They took a car that wasn't necessarily meant for the U.S. and installed a U.S. friendly engine in it. The engine bay wasn't designed for that amount of heat generated by the larger engine though and caught fire. They had to buy em all back.

rlawrence · September 2005

Nissan made the same mistake though with the Van. They took a car that wasn't necessarily meant for the U.S. and installed a U.S. friendly engine in it. The engine bay wasn't designed for that amount of heat generated by the larger engine though and caught fire.

What van? What year?

garandman · September 2005

I looked at one today. It sure didn't seem like much leg room in the third row seats, even for children. How much room is there for pre-teens there and how convenient is the second row slider seat for getting in and out? The dealer's answer to the question was "There'a $4,000 rebate on the MPV."

jaserb · September 2005

That really is a bummer. They should put you in a loaner that's the same type of car. Maybe an Opel Zaphira or Volkswagen Touran. Oh, wait. None of the 5's competitors are available in the US, so I guess it would be hard to put you in an equivalent vehicle. Unfortunately, the closest thing here is a minivan, and every minivan I've ever rented has been a big 3 piece of junk. At least you didn't get a Freestar. Your venting is justifible, but there's not a lot that can be done.

It could be worse - one time, I brought our van in for a recall and got ... are you ready? ... a 15 passenger Ford van. It was literally the last car Enterprise had available. I told them anything would be fine - a sedan, a convertible, anything - but that was it. I needed to get home so I took it. It was actually kind of a hoot, and since the rental lot told me not to worry about filling the tank I just rolled with it. Amazingly it even fit in our garage!

-Jason

erics6 · September 2005

I think it was the 80's Nissan van. They had a tendency to burn up, so Nissan bought some of them back.

frank4cars · September 2005

I'm surprised you were able to find one still on display.

The second row of seats slides fore and aft just like the front row so if everybody compromises a little bit, three six-footers can fit in each row directly behind each other. If you are currently in a full-size SUV or minivan, and think this will give you all that space plus better mileage, this is probably too much of a compromise. If you are moving up from a sedan, small SUV or wagon and want a little more versatility and the ability to seat 6, take a second closer look.

smaria · September 2005

The dealer's answer to the question was "There'a $4,000 rebate on the MPV."

Of course the dealer pointed you towards an MPV. The MPV doesn't seem to be selling too well, so dealers will be happy to point you towards one if they see that you might be interested in it.

Also, because of the current Mazda5 recall, the dealers CAN'T sell you a Mazda5 right now. So, yet another reason to point you towards an MPV...

regis · September 2005

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050926/ap_on_bi_ge/mazda_recall

mazda6s · September 2005

Old news.

rcinmd · September 2005

It was during the 'rebirth' of the forward control van in this country. Think early Chevy, Ford, and Dodge vans. Actually, it was all the Japanese had to offer us at the time in order to get on our mini-van bandwagon. Nissan, Toyota, and Mitsubishi all offered forward control vans for a brief period until they were able to produce conventional layouts for our market. The Nissan was the best looking, but I think the Mitsubishi was probably the best pick. The buy back was voluntary, and there are still NIssans on the road.

By the way, my luck, the local Mazda dealer sold the silver option-free 5 speed Sport just days before the recall. I'm kind of hoping Mazda will have a big 'welcome'back' rebate on them when sales commence again, and that another unadorned 5 shows up about the same time. If anyone is looking for a 5 speed Touring with Nav, he still has it, along with 3 others.

ateixeira · September 2005

Durango? Uplander? That's cruel and unusual punishment. LOL

Just kidding, but I'd rather have an MPV. Rental companies don't usually have 'em, though.

Let's see how Mazda handles this. It could be a PR disaster, or it could be an opportunity to earn loyal buyers. Extended warranty, anyone?

-juice

mdaffron · September 2005

I'll tell ya what's cruel and unusual! It's my experience with Progressive Insurance after my 1994 Mazda B2300 pickup was hit by a hit-and-run driver at the ripe old age of 2 years old!

Progressive insisted on using an aftermarket rear quarter panel -- that was the injury. Now, the insult -- they crammed my 240-pound bod into a 3-cylinder GEO METRO for the week the truck was in the body shop!!!

I looked like Fat Albert in a bumper car!

Meade

ateixeira · September 2005

LOL

Please stick around, Meade, you keep these threads humorous for us.

-juice

ateixeira · September 2005

Credit to Rob for finding this link:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050928-4.htm

-juice

mdaffron · September 2005

Well THERE YA GO!

How nice of Mazda to give all of you a redundant heat shield just 'cuz of some crazy folks who prefer to buzz around the interstate at 7,000 rpm! Next thing ya know they'll be warranting the AT for 100,000 miles.

Talk about a car company that bends over backward to keep the smiles zoomin' ...

Hot coffee, anyone?

Ronald McDonald

P.S. Recalibrate the ATU? To me that sounds like, from now on, less zoom to avoid boom! :P

chacobleu · September 2005

Pluses and minuses, Meade, pluses and minuses.

Ok, less zoom zoom, though more than half the fun is at the 4 corners (until which time they add turbo, awd, & 6-speed mt)

On the Plus side: reduction of the ignoramus factor; better fuel economy

isda65 · September 2005

Talk about a car company that bends over backward to keep the smiles zoomin'

Somehow, I find this hard to believe considering that the amount that they have probably budgeted here is hardly something to smile about. I don't exactly know how the incentives that Mazda has granted to the dealers play out but lets assume for the sake of discussion that Mazda has done this for all dealers for the 2700 units. If each unit has been allocated $1500 plus $50/day for 30 days Mazda is prepared to pay $8,100,000. Now, add to this the labour cost of implementing the fix (warning label, recalibration, heat shield) which let's say is $70/hr for 5 hours. For 2700 + the estimated unsold units of 700 that's $1,190,000. Materials cost, maybe like $100/unit. So 3400 units comes out to $340,000. So far Mazda is in the red for $9,630,000.

$9.63 million seems to me a pretty big amount to spend just to avoid bad publicity for something that is obviously "operator error" and keep us smiling. I am more inclined to think based on the haste that Mazda has shown and the scope of the recall that it knows it has screwed up and is just doing damage control.

rideyourbike · September 2005

Though, let's not forget about profit (real and projected). Though this $9.6 might ache in the short run, take a look at the big picture here. Let's assume a conservative $800 per car net income for Mazda on the Mazda5 (Ford and GM USA have some of the lowest per car profits of around $500, Toyota USA has a nice $1200 per car profit, and I'm sure Mazda falls somewwhere in between). Mazda has 3400 MZ5 units sold or waiting to be sold in the US. Let's assume they all get sold. 3400 units with an $800 net income comes to $3,200,000. $9,630,000 - $3,200,000 = $6,430,000 in the red. Less, but still somewhat significant. Projected 2006 sales for the Mazda5 were a low 15,000 units. Still, let's assume the MZ5 hits only 12,000 units next year. 12,000 x $800 = 9,600,000. First year losses wiped out. Net of $3,000,000 over a year and a half.

I love my Mazda5 (as does my better half) and we will be singing its praises for a long time. Is Mazda doing some damage control with this recall? I guess so. What manufacturer doesn't? However, the main advertising force for this auto has apparently been the owners, and if they are kept happy they will continue to rave about this car. Word of mouth is the best way to sell anything. Combine that with a big traditional advertising push next year and all these recall costs will be long gone. I would imagine Mazda sees the cost of putting everyone in an MPV as insurance for good sales next year.

A couple other items. Right now, Mazda is offering $4,000 cash back on new MPVs. The $1500 plus $50 per day works out to about $3000 per month. Even if the recall does take 6 weeks, Mazda is still only looking at $3600 per MPV. Mazda corporate still makes out okay. Dealers have what seems to be a few good low-mileage deals on the lot. Puts more MPVs on the road, too!

This car is selling like hotcakes everywhere else in the world. Mazda was taking a risk bringing it here. I (and yes, I am a layman) don't think sales are going to be affected at all because of the recall. I mean, come on, Saab just had to recall 300,000 cars the other day because of a possible ignition overheating and subsequent risk of fire. 300,000!!!!!!! Talk about a financial loss! And do you think people will second guess buying a Saab just becuase of it?

I dunno. I guess to summarize, If there is anything I'm sure of, it's that for whatever reason Mazda is handling things the way they are, more money for Mazda is the only real reason to do it!

ateixeira · September 2005

I wonder if you can actually get a base MPV for less.

Still, I think I'd rather drive a 5.

-juice

perfectofc · September 2005

"However, the main advertising force for this auto has apparently been the owners, and if they are kept happy they will continue to rave about this car. Word of mouth is the best way to sell anything."

The sales of this car in the USA and Canada are almost entirely based on word-of-mouth. If Mazda doesn't treat us well, that will stop, rest assured... so I'd hope that they continue to keep us sweet.

Like I said, I'll take an extended warranty.

backy · September 2005

Yes, you can (well, I can anyway) get a MPV LX for under $17k, list over $23k. Which would put the MPV under the price of the 5, until some incentives come (and maybe they will in the aftermath of the recent press on the exhaust issue, if sales sputter because of it).

jazvan · October 2005

I still haven't seen any real 0-60 mph data. Car connection did an informal test result as follows:

"We sampled it with both five-speed manual and optional four-speed automatic transaxles with two normal-sized adults and no cargo on board and found it, well, slow. Informal 0-60 runs with the automatic were 11 seconds plus."

This is similar to my experience driving an MZ5 automatic.

-Jaz

sandiegoguy · October 2005

I agree 100% and posted the same opinion in the 'problems and solutions" discussion. There is no way this about high revs in second gear only. Any car really feels wrong when driving 65 mph in 2nd. No one would do that for long periods of time. And what will programming the auto trans ECU do? Lower the rev limit or require a computer upshift at high RPM? The thing already downsifts in case you forget and stop in 4th so ehy not upshift? and how ugly is the warning sticker going to look and where are they going to put it????? An ugly stick just to try to put a pretty spin on an engineering mistake.

You can drive any auto in second- by accident. Particularly in cars with shifters on the steering wheel. It happens and you can tell because the car drives badly. No other fires I know of from this.

The heat shield is the real fix. That's why they are spending all of the bucks on this. Otherwise they would call and give the cars back. They can schedule the repair when the heat shield and the new stickers come in and save some dollars.

backy · October 2005

Another reason an auto-tranny car could be driven in 2nd on the highway is if there is a failure which causes the tranny to drop into "limp home" mode, which is 2nd gear on the few auto tranny I've owned in recent years. And that isn't under control of the driver. The driver should slow down in that case, but this may be a big reason why Mazda is adding the heat shield.

w9cw · October 2005

rideyourbike wrote: "Saab just had to recall 300,000 cars the other day because of a possible ignition overheating and subsequent risk of fire. 300,000!!!!!!! Talk about a financial loss! And do you think people will second guess buying a Saab just becuase of it?"

Hmm . . . I own two SAAB's and haven't received anything in the mail yet. But, anyone who is a SAAB-o'phile knows where the problem is, and should have been on top of this potential problem for years. Of course, just as in the Mazda5, it's a exhaust heat related issue, but a different problem due to the "unique" (some will say peculiar) nature of SAAB's.

For those who may not know, all SAAB's have had their ignition switches on the center console between the bucket seats. Yep, that's right -- on the floor! Why, you say . . . rather than locking the steering wheel, the Swede's thought it best to lock the transmission gear selector, hence the unique-to-SAAB location of the ignition switch. If it is a manual transmission, it is locked in reverse, as the car must be placed in reverse before removing the key.

Since all of ignition switch wiring, along with wiring for the power windows (also on the center console), run above the center tunnel area which includes the catalytic converter and exhaust system, a long heat shield attaches to the bottom of the center tunnel underneath the chassis. This heat shield rusts out over time, and guess what happens? The iginition wire insulation melts, and bingo . . . you have the beginnings of an electrical fire.

As I said, most SAAB owners know of this problem, and change out the exhaust heat shield when signs of rust out appear. But, some recalls seem to be designed to protect those who seem not to be able to protect themselves - this is one of those.

bluegrass_guy · October 2005

What do they mean by changing the "calibration" of the engine and transmission? Will this effect performance? If the recall was found because of a three engine fires by people driving at highway speed in 2nd gear, and a tag and heat shield will solve the problem - why mess with the engine and transmission? Just wondering!

sandiegoguy · October 2005

Because the whole driving in second gear thing is a "cover" story for the real problem. I suspect simply insufficient shielding. I doubt the engine will be toyed with but the tranny should get an autoshift point for going to a higher gear once a certain RPM is sustained in Manual Mode. It already has it for going to a lower gear.

bwaters · October 2005

So why is another SAAB story in this Mazda forum?

Sorry I couldn't help myself. I'm sure I'd be kicked out of the SAAB forums if I used this old pun.

mdaffron · October 2005

Why, you say . . . rather than locking the steering wheel, the Swede's thought it best to lock the transmission gear selector, hence the unique-to-SAAB location of the ignition switch.

Well, not exactly. (I know this is off-topic, but I'd like to get the facts straight before we conclude this.) I used to be a huge fan of Saab (before I learned, first-hand, how unreliable they are), and at one time owned a 1980 Saab 900 GLi. In all of Saab's literature way back then -- and they used to put out some huge booklets which I still have, showcasing the technical side of their cars -- Saab was really pressing the safety aspects of its cars. It touted the ignition key location as the result of long hours of study into what happened to people during front-end collisions. Saab claims many drivers suffered injuries to their knees caused by impalement by the ignition key. Therefore Saab decided to place the ignition switch (and key) in an area where it could not harm the driver in an accident.

From an article on the history of Swedish carmakers' preoccupation with safety at thecarconnection.com:

Information gleaned from real-life accidents led to such innovations as the Saab Active Head Restraint, Volvo's rear-facing child safety seat, and even Saab's placement of the ignition key in the center console (to prevent driver knee injuries in head-on collisions).

I thought the switch on the floor was a fun thing to show new passengers, but I thought it was actually a bad idea because, since the keyhole faced upward in the little depression where the parking brake handle resides, it was just asking for trouble from a spilled drink or dirt. I never spilled a drink on mine, but mine did get dusty between car cleanings and I always wondered if that was good for it.

Meade

hkeogh · October 2005

Mazda promised parts to the dealership by the 27th of October
and still no parts have been recieved. I am forwarding information
to a lemon law attorney. We will see how this progresses.

ateixeira · October 2005

Saw a red one today, top was also red. Looked good on the street. Can't wait to sample one.

-juice

perfectofc · October 2005

Patience - this car is not a lemon.

smaria · October 2005

Which lemon law attorney? Do you have a link to his/her website that you could post?

I DO love the Mazda5, but the lemon law may be the only way for me to get out of having to deal with my flooded vehicle (flooded while the dealer had it). So, I'm keeping all options open until I figure things out.

Claires · October 2005

This forum's for discussing the features of these vehicles; if you'd like to talk about lawyer referrals or other personal matters, please handle it outside the Forums. Thanks.

wheelz4 · October 2005

A recent test on Motoring 2005 (on TSN, the Sports Network) pegged the gas mileage for the Mazda5 at 44 mpg! Is anybody getting that? If the 5 is able to better it's Transport Canada rating by over 10 mpg, then that pretty well erases the only major gripe I have with the 5 (well, that and those useless side sills!)

perfectofc · October 2005

I was getting high 30's before the recall... haven't checked it since.

skelton · October 2005

Imperial Gallons?

wheelz4 · November 2005

The Motoring info was wrong....it should have been 34 mpg (and yes, that's Imperial gallons). Still, 34 mpg overall, during an auto test involving skidpad testing and a variety of driving/filming is not too shabby, I guess.

smaria · November 2005

it should have been 34 mpg (and yes, that's Imperial gallons)

That's roughly 28 U.S. MPG overall...not bad at all!

ateixeira · November 2005

I wonder why the EPA numbers are so low. Usually it's the other way around.

-juice

wruberte · November 2005

It has been a long and difficult. Mazda USA, when push came
to shove did what was right. Three managers from the dealership
here in Ga were hostile, uncooperative, misleading, and in one
circumstance paranoid. Due to the business relationship gone sour, I
will have the vehicle inspected by another Mazda Service Shop to
ensure all is alright with the vehicle.

Wish you all better luck and happy trails.

wheelz4 · November 2005

http://www.triplezoom.com/news/publish/article_400.shtml

ateixeira · November 2005

Finally drove one, at the Zoom Zoom Live event in DC on Saturday.

First off, BOO to Mazda, this event was horrible. Lines were unbelievably long. I had to wait an hour and 15 minutes to take two 33 second laps in a Mazda5. So lame. I almost bailed, but I had already invested so much time to get there all.

Any how, so I drove an automatic on the timed course, where you have to try to match the target time, 33 seconds for this course. People were getting anywhere from 29.5 or so way up to 40 seconds in the 3, 5, and 6. I chose the 5 because it was the only one I had not driven yet.

First lap, not pushing too hard, I did a 31.4. Off the line it was a little bit slow, but this thing is FUN to drive and really got around the corners well. I ended up being too fast, without even pushing it too hard.

They told me my time, and I got to do a 2nd lap. I went around a little quicker, but then slowed down at the end and crawled over the finish line.

Get this - 22.990! I was off by just one one-hundredth of a second! Still, that was not the closest, as I saw a 29.999 and 30.001.

Any how, this thing really handles well. It feels light, not only in weight but also in the feel of the controls. I was instantly familiar with it, and could hit each apex just as I wanted to. No way can any other van I've driven match this level of precision and fun, not even close.

The auto could use more power, but it was no slug.

Mazda gets a D- for the event, which only had hot dogs, no real food, and water from coolers, not even bottled.

But the Mazda5 gets a solid thumbs up. With a manual tranny I might not have had any complaints at all. :shades:

-juice

wuster · November 2005

What time were you there for ZZL?

When I got there at 10AM, the lines where so long that I gave up trying to drive and played around with the Mazda5 they had on display.

I really like how easy it was to adjust the seating arrangement. I wish they had one with nav at the show, so I can see how large the screen is.

Wuster

ateixeira · November 2005

We must've been there at the same time. I got there around 9:45. You were smart to do what you did, I had more fun inside on the simulators and crawling around the cars on display.

The quick class room lines were about 45 minutes. The one with the golf balls was about 20 minutes, the only tolerable line. I skipped the Miata drive because the line looked 2 hours long. And then another 1:15 waiting for 2 laps in the Mazda5.

Very lame driving event. I swear, even Chevrolet did better when they intro'd the Malibu.

They opened it to 18 and up drivers, so I think that's what made it crowded.

-juice

Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5

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