Scion tC

tonylexus · October 2004

Yes, quiet! However, I will admit that I am coming out of a Jeep Liberty so I guess everything is relative.
The only noise I may complain about is caused by the tires not the car. I have raised the issue of the Potenzas being less than acceptable compared to other tires out there and considered trading them in immediately but the cost was too great as dealers were giving me next to nothing for the new 'trade-ins'. I didn't want the hassle of selling them myself so decided to save a few bucks and give the RE92's a try. By the time I'm disgusted with them they'll probably be worn out anyway and I'll get what I want.

In/re the stereo. My SSP settings are "Hear", "Feel" and " Neutral" Is this a different version of radio from the xA,xB, etc.?
I find the unit to be great. The base can blow the doors off in the "Feel" mode.
That's it for now, going for another ride!!

stickguy · October 2004

the "feelings" are the standard options for each car. However, if you hold the SSP button down for a few seconds, the display will switch to a car-specific one. You can pick Xa, Xb, or tC (which is the default). Big difference in sound on each one. Pick the one you like best (Xa seems to be the richest one), and let it save. After that, you can still do the normal hear, feel, whatever settings on the new baseline.

law55 · October 2004

But will I fit in it? I'm 6'6 with very long legs, I've only seen pictures and of course there's no tC's I can sit in so will I fit?

stickguy · October 2004

There is plenty of leg room, but I don't think you will be comfortable with the headroom. See if the dealer will let yo sit in a sold unit, even if you can't drive, at least you can see if you fit. That's what I did with mine before it arrived at the dealer.

law55 · October 2004

So you do fit in it at what height?

ghgh · October 2004

I hate to break it to you, but you will definitely not fit. I am just a hair less than 6'2, and I just have enough head and leg room, and I'm not particularly long of leg. My brother in law is about 6'4 or 6'5 and he had to fold himself into the driver's side and he was clearly very uncomfortable. Sorry.

genee · October 2004

There is no way you can tell "fit" without trying it. My son is 6-2 and had difficulties. My son-in-law is 6-5 (36 inseam) and fit

stickguy · October 2004

I'm 6', but with a long torso (31"-32" inseam), so I tend to sit high. I fit OK, but don't have much room to spare. There is enough leg room that I can slide the seat back far enough that I can't reach the clutch.

I agree that you need to sit in it yourself. A few years back, I turned down a great deal on an Acura 3.2TL because I just couldn't get a comfortable driving position where my head wasn't plastered on the roof. At the same time, reviewers seemed to find it to have plenty of room.

jl637 · October 2004

There's been some talk of Scion maybe jacking up the price for the Scion TC since it's doing so well. Do you think it'll actually happen? I'm actually waiting till next year for the price to go DOWN, not UP!

bobotheclown · October 2004

I'm in the same boat you are in. I was waiting until late 05 to buy one, just so all the little quirks are fixed by then. But I doubt they will raise the price that much if they did.

If they do raise the price a large amount and stick with the no haggle thing, I'm going to seriously start considering a 05 v6 Mustang instead.

Not as realiable as a Toyota, but it looks really nice. And according to Edmunds data, gas mileage is comparable plus has 210 hp.

Then again, still a year away from deciding which car to get. So who knows, a new car may come around and catch my attention.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2004

I,too, am about a year away from trading in on my next car. This Scion tC is probably my choice, unless Kia's new 2005 Sportage is too cool to pass up. My wife loves our current ride, a 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4, and it has been a great little SUV. The tC is a great looking little coupe...I doubt that Scion would raise prices much if they do at all. Something like $750 to the base price wouldn't shock me. But adding several thousand bucks to the tC main price? Don't think they'd be that dumb to do that. I have been wrong before,though. In the meantime I'm gonna be following it's reliability rating with buyers.

jcf · October 2004

I must have sat in 20 different cars when I was car shopping. Insisting on a sunroof eliminated several prospects, due to less headroom. I found the tC, 3, and RSX had noticeably more headroom than the Civic, Corolla, Tiburan, or Cilica. That alone affected my buying options significantly.

I'm only an average 5'10" height, but I like to have my seat quite upright. Doing so, my hair almost touches the tC roof, even with the seat completely lowered. The MAzda 3, even with a sunroof, provides a good, appreciated 1 1/2 inches more. The only way you'll have enough headroom in the tC is to lean the driver's seat back - which lots of people seem to do.

Everyone's right, you'll have to sit in one for awhile. Someone your size may simply have to forgo any model with a sunroof.

ghgh · October 2004

Look -- I love the tC as much as the next guy, but telling this 6'6 person that he should sit in a tC to see if he "fits" is suggesting that he engage in a big ol' waste of time. If you try hard enough, I'm sure you can jam a Bol or a Yao into one of these cars. But then the question is why would you want to do that?

iluvmysephia1 · October 2004

probably fit fine in the tC because I like to tilt the driver's seat back a tad. Can't wait to test it out for reals! Black Cherry Pearl or that Indigo Ink would be my color choices...I got a freebie pen at a conference I just attended that reminded me a little of the Indigo Ink tC shade. It would look blue sometimes and purple other times. Is that how the Indigo Ink shade looks on the tC? Anybody out there that has bought a tC with the Indigo Ink color shade? Do post how you like it and any intricate details you care to divulge, OK?

stickguy · October 2004

I saw an Indigo in a parking lot today. It was actually my first choice originally, until I got a Flint Mica.

Anyway, it was a little darker than I remembered. I actually thought it looked real nice, not too flashy. But, it was rainy today, so that might have dulled it up a bit.

jcf · October 2004

Color preference is as subjective as style - but seems most important to the owner rather than other observers - if that makes sense to anyone.

The white is amazingly bright, clean, and striking looking - but too common in Southern Cal. The silver is sharp and classy - but too common in every model everywhere. The azure pearl has all the sharpness and class of silver, but with more color boldness that sets it apart from the masses of silver cars. I think the metallics show their best only under sunlight, whereas the white looks equally good under sun light or street lamp.

Every car needs a black option, but the tC loses all of its contrasting glass and grill work on the black paint. Flint mica counters this while still providing a dark, elegant look. The cherry looks gorgeous - but, like the black and flint mica, must be kept totally clean. The blue is bold and different - if that's what strikes you. All of these colors fade towards black at nightime. Their color and bold metallic flakes certainly look their best under day time sun light - an anomaly in some states.

I know one thing for sure - having more than one color preference will help you get a car faster. So, if you can't make up your mind completely, the ordering system will help do it for you. Most dealers want at least 2, and preferably 3 options specified, and your first choice is no more preferenced than your second choice. In fact, had I not taken my second color choice when it came in last week, my name would have been sent back to the bottom of the list for my first color choice. Bummer, but it did help me finally commit.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2004

the Indigo Ink metallic will look good in the daytime in Missouri. It is sunny so much in this state. I never knew that about Missouri until I moved here a bit over a year ago. Grapes go freely here in mid-Missouri. It's not that different from a Fresno, CA climate. Yikes.

I'll keep that in mind come ordering time. I've got my two in mind...BCP and II. 5-speed manual tranny with the "popping out of 3rd gear" problem fixed by a year from now. Will Scion offer rebates on 2005 models around September of 2005 do ya think? Just curious.

oceloteva · October 2004

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jcf · October 2004

If even the Scion sales reps don't know about future pricing, then we here can only guess about rebates and price increases. Here's two factors to help make that guess yourself though:

First, the whole minimal inventory management of the Scions on dealers' lots reduces the need for rebates or price cuts. Unless the factory production drastically exceeds demand, which seems particularly unlikely for the tC over the next year, the company would be foolish to cut profits with rebates. Look at the Mazda 3. Mazda offered 1.5K rebates last month on all of its models - except for the hot selling, first year, 3 model. Given Scion's short run cycle intentions on each of its models, it seems likely that the company will come out with a new model before the tC production far exceeds demand - negating any need for a rebate.

Second, consider the xA. Its sales have slowed; the 05's are out; no rebates were offered on the 04's. If we didn't see rebates offered on this less successful model it would be inconsistent and illogical to see a rebate offered on the tC - even later next year.

I have no insight, so I could be wrong. But, I wouldn't count on any rebate likely enough to influence your decision on when to buy.

As for 06 pricing: Japan's inflation rate is so low that it should put little upward pressure on next year's price. Their currency value is a bigger question mark though, and could be a significant pricing factor. Overall, Toyota management has declared their intent to increase market share. This SHOULD mean that the company will keep the tC model priced as low as possible and increase the production rate if it continues to have successful demand.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2004

nor will rebates show up. I was just throwing that question out there for the crowd to decide on. I think that the Scion "no-haggling" selling pattern will squash any chance of rebates and, really, a base price of $16,465 is not at all unreasonable for the tC. AAMOF it's one of the main reasons I'm looking to buy one. You get a nice chunk of sports coupe for that. Incidentally, I read in a car mag yesterday that the MSRP for this car(base price)is really $15,950, IIRC. I'm going on my feeble memory there, it may have even been $15,650. Souldn't a base tC buyer be able to walk in and demand a new Black Cherry Pearl base-model tC for only $15,950? jcf(or anyone else)what'd'ya think about that? Why is the price marked up to $16,465 on the Scion.com website? We pay MSRP, right, and not a penny more? Or are we forced to pay $16,465, for a base tC? Just curious.

bobotheclown · October 2004

Base MSRP for a base TC is $15,950.

OTD MSRP includes the Destination Charge of $515, which gives you the grand total price of $16,465.

Good luck trying to get a dealer to not charge you the destination charge.

If you want to go into details, according to Edmunds, the base invoice for a TC is $15,152

I don't have a problem with paying msrp for the car itself, only wish they would give a discount on the accessories. But then again, why would they since that's where most dealers make their money.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2004

that clears it up. Thank you. The car is still a great price and I'll be getting the manual trannied one anyway, so a tad less than the automatic tranny tC.

jcf · October 2004

Exactly right bobotheclown - 15950 + 515 = $16465 for everyone, plus doc fee, title, registration, and tax. Darn, I like the easy questions too.

Previous discussions here complained of doc fees of up to $600. It seems to vary per state and dealer. In San Diego its fixed at $45.

Being a persistent haggler, I've never paid much over invoice for a car, so paying the MSRP on the tC hurt. But, its MSRP price just about matches the Mazda 3's invoice price, so I've accepted it.

I was seriously tempted last month to forgo my tC preference. First, Ford was running ridiculous rebates and dealer incentives on the 04 Focus, selling base models with AC for 3K UNDER invoice at $8777. I couldn't stomach the styling, but practicality and cost sure tempted me. Second, Honda's rebate program had new Civics with AC selling for $12500. Again, I couldn't accept the boring styling, but for quality, reliability, safety, and economy, that was certainly a good deal. Finally, one San Diego dealer, for one weekend, put an unprecedented sale on all Mazda 3i's. Seven of them with AC went for $12777 - about $1300 UNDER invoice. Had I not insisted on a sunroof and SAB's, I definitely would have chosen that deal over the tC.

It's always prudent to watch the sales. A good deal might come along to tempt you away from the tC. If they'd sell a Mini below MSRP, that'd be a temptation worth considering.

mss · October 2004

I'm curious to know how many RPMs both the manual and automatic do at highway speeds (let's say 75MPH). I currently own a 2003 Camry 4cyl with a 4 speed auto and it runs at 2,500 RPM at 75MPH. Does's the tC auto do the same? This will be my commuting vehicle and I'd like to get the 5 spd manual but I've heard that it rev's higher than the auto.

719b · October 2004

i'm not doubting you only run 2500 rpm's at 75 mph, but that number seems very low to me. you sure it's not 3500 rpm's at 75 mph?

jrct9454 · October 2004

30 mph per 1000 prm in final drive for a Camry automatic sounds just about right. For the TC, with much shorter gearing, expect more like 23-25 mph per 1000 rpm - something like 3000 rpm at 75 mph, give or take...

mss · October 2004

Thanks for the info, I'm assuming the 5 spd manual is even higher reving. Your calculation is correct, at 90mph the Camry runs at 3000rpm.

stickguy · October 2004

On the 5 speed, 3000 RPMs will get you about 60 MPH. Yes, given the nature of this engine (which doesn't midn being lugged, lots of torque down low), it is geared way shorter than it needs to be. It's still smooth at 3,500 RPM (about 75ish), but it would be perfectly happy and perform well at lower RPMs, not to mention getting better mileage.

exzur · October 2004

I drove my 5 spd tC to NYC last weekend. The tach shows 3,000 rpm when the speedo says 65 mph. At 90 mph, the tach needle pointer is almost at 4,000 rpm. Strong engine, very fast acceleration. I can feel the power.

719b · October 2004

the last few posts seem to be on the money with rpm at mph. i still think there may have been an error when a post claimed a 4 cyl engine does 2500 rpm's at 75 mph. the engine would be lugging at 55 mph

stickguy · October 2004

My bad. I made a typo. The tC does about 66 MPH @3000 RPM. Although my Miata was at about 60.

My wifes Quest does about 2,500 prm @75 mph. I actually think a 5 speed tC would be fine at that, but to be conservative, split the difference. 75 @3K.

jcf · October 2004

When I test drove the tC, I specifically wanted to know what the rpm's were at my normal highway cruising speed.

At 75 on the manual, the tach read 3 1/4 thousand. Given the car's low end torque, that may be higher than necessary, but its an improvement over my 91 Miata that pushes 4k at 75.

For better gas mileage, I wish they'd geared the car higher too. But, I reckon Toyota aimed to strike a balance between performance and economy. Let's hope gas doesn't move on up towards $100/brl.

I want to hear more real world gas mileage numbers from present owners.

stickguy · October 2004

I get about 22 local, but I do a lot of real short-hop start/stop driving. I have gotten up to 24 local if I wander a little farther from home occassionally.

On the couple of trips I have taken, I have gotten between 30 and 33+ on different legs, not loafing when possible and a fari bit of traffic.

Overall, could be better, but not too bad. Certainly better than if it had a V6 and comparable performance, but not as good as if it was geared 10% lower.

mss · October 2004

Trust me on this one, I've been driving this car for over a year and it definitely runs at 2500rpm at 75mph. The transmission/engine in this car is awesome. I was really against buying the 4 cyl when I was looking at buying the car, but once I drove it I was sold. Good acceleration from any speed, smooth shifting and great gas mileage. That's why I am really leaning towards the tC, I'm hoping it about the same.

tonylexus · October 2004

First tank of gas (AT) 25/75% city/hwy 28.3 MPH - 2nd tank, 10/90 city/hwy - 31 MPH both tanks topped off, hwy speeds varied between 55 & 85. Coming from a Jeep Liberty where I was lucky to get 17 MPH, I'm ecsatic. Just another way this car has exceeded my expectations. Time for another fill up and it's looking like the MPH is holding up.

While the city/hwy percentages are my best estimates, the MPH was calculated with precision.

I have over 700 miles on the car in 10 days and have loved every minute of it.

It's a BC auto, I waited 5 weeks and held out for only one color. When it's clean it can't be beat for looks. Great paint and it fits the vehicle well day or night.

voidvoice · October 2004

I am completely new to automoblie tech. After reading xxx rpm at xx mph, is there a good or bad value of these number? ie. 5000rpm at 60mph compare to 3000rpm at 60. What it effect mpg, speed, power..etc?

jrct9454 · October 2004

All other things being equal, which they rarely are, you want the least amount of engine speed to give you the most road speed, especially in final gear.

That said, there are lots of reasons to move one way or another up or down the various possible extremes - small, higher revving engines don't like to be too lazy at highway speeds - they don't make enough power or torque to be responsive on demand. Larger, torquier engines tend to be geared higher to allow them to get good fuel consumption without sacrificing performance.

Every manufacturer has prejudices and practices that play out on individual models and drivetrains. I can assure you that no one wants to drive a road car that is doing 5000 rpm at 60 mph - the noise alone would drive you nuts, never mind the premature engine wear.

These days, 20 mph per 1000 rpm in final drive is about as short as it gets - there are some exceptions, but they are exceptions for good reason [some versions of the Miata, for example]; some larger American cars are geared as high as 33 mph (or more) per 1000 rpm. There really is no such thing as "typical" - in general, you want the least amount of engine speed that keeps the car feeling responsive, since lower engine speed translates to less noise, less wear, and less fuel used. But that leaves a lot of room for different cars to find different answers to the question...depends on how the car is intended to be used, and the intended audience.

mackabee · October 2004

I do about 4000rpm and 70-72mph on my 88 MR2. Still get 30mpg combined! And this is on a daily basis.
: )
Mackabee

Mr_Shiftright · October 2004

mackabee---didn't you know the car has FIVE speeds?

jcf · October 2004

Today, a 1.6 liter engine is expected to get great gas mileage, but my 91 Miata doing 4k at 75 gets only 26 mpg. I think the little horses are working too hard.

Seems like Toyota could have kept the first 4 gears low for acceleration, but allowed a higher 5th to provide lower rpms and better gas mileage. Another mystery from the engineers.

I'll be mostly satisfied with the present gearing, but if I lived in one of the lucky states without speed limits... I'd be wanting a smooth, lower reving car for obvious reasons.

stickguy · October 2004

Actually, if you added a deeper OD 6th gear to the current ratios, it would be perfect.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2004

work perfect for me. In Missouri you can't get enough distance between yourself and trucks to get a nice pleasant 6th gear going on. No kidding...this state is absolutely overrun with those large, smelly vessels of filth. Yuk! I will say this about them: they signal when intending to change lanes. Probably get in trouble if they don't, eh? Hey, I wanna ask this of all tC owners out there: do you signal your intention to change lanes on the freeway? Is everybody getting too self-important to signal when lane-changing? Wassup wid at? It is lawful to signal before changing lanes in order to let everyone know your intention to change lanes. Why aren't people doing it? Is everything going to hell-in-a-handbasket? Actually, I'll ask this question: how long ago did everything definitely already go to hell-in-a-handbasket?

stickguy · October 2004

I always signal, stop for school buses, let people cross or someone through the light, etc. I must be a throwback.

And, how many people these days even know what the heck a handbasket is?

As to gearing, it actually keeps me from going to fast on the highway. The engine is so smooth and quiet, you have to look at the tach to know how fast it's spinning, but it seems to like cruising naturally at about 72ish.

I have a theory that all cars have a inherent speed that they like to cruise at, sort of a built-in "sweet spot" where it just feels natural to be. Combo of gears, engine, angle of the gas pedal, etc.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2004

with my '01 Kia Sportage I think that spot is right at 65 mph, 5th gear and around 3300 rpm's.

I do feel that with the tC I'm gonna probably drive a tad faster...I mean, who wouldn't want to with that smooth setup available?

stickguy, do you feel that the stereo operation is kinda hokey in the tC or have people gotten very good at complaining? Maybe it's just me but I fail to see a big fault in the tC stereo setup. On paper(or the Internet)anyway. Maybe I'll just need to go give one a test-run to see for myself.

jcf · October 2004

State laws generally require a turn signal...when another vehicle might be affected by your lane change.

Most people aren't able to, or are unwilling to, make this assessment each time they make a lane change. So, they either nicely signal ALL the time, or unnicely signal NONE of the time. The bigger mistake I see is people signaling WHILE they move rather than BEFORE they move.

I guess I'd rather think and assess than make that extra hand movement every time. But, the tC's cool mirror signals might encourage me to be less lazy in the future.

stickguy · October 2004

stereo sounds good to me. I would prefer a volume knob instead of the buttons, but not a real big deal. I actually would like controls on the steering wheel, but sometimes you gotta compromise (at least when you are cheap).

Other than that, seems OK to me. But, try it for yourself.

There is actually an advantage to the cover. Since the radio is recessed, it makes a little ledge that I rest my hand on to steady it when I am pushing the volume buttons.

tonylexus · October 2004

I agree 100% stickguy! I too would prefer a volume knob, but no big deal. The cover has been no problem. Had steering wheel controls on an Accord and never used them so I can live without that as well, especially if it keeps cost down. I have found the recess advantageous as well.

One complaint on these venues that I consider completely absurd is concerning the 3rd brake lite not illuminating across the entire fixture. Some people don't know the difference between a problem and a preference. -Like 'iluvmysephia1' said - maybe some people are just too good at complaining.

Noticed something kinda neat last night. The small indicator light on the temp control dial changes from blue-amber-red when going from cold setting to hot. Like several other things - nice touch! Neat detail!

char · October 2004

tonylexus, I'm envious that you have discovered the temp controls changing colors. In Texas, it's definately still blue all the time!

iluvmysephia1: in July, I had a nasty little wreck that dictated the need for a new car, thus my tC! I believe if the gargantuan SUV had been using its blinkers before changing lanes at 80+ MPH directly on top of me, it could have prevented several of the collisions that immediately followed. Yep, I'm a BIG fan of seatbelts and turn signals!!

to all: took my first roadtrip with passengers last week. The party consisted of 3 women heading for a 7-day cruise out of Houston (5 hrs from home) We had the right-rear passenger seat down and an incredible amount of luggage packed in the car. On the return trip, we had even MORE luggage packed into the car. Every nook-n-cranny was full and not a single complaint on space or comfort. It rode very well and my passengers were thoroughly impressed with the ride and handling, not to mention the cool looks the car was getting while sitting in Houston traffic!

char · October 2004

Tahlequah, how did the tC handle on your road trip to Oklahoma?

mackabee · October 2004

I think this is a throwback to those of us who had driver training is high school. For as long as I can remember I have been using a signal light. Even when there is no traffic behind me or anywhere to be seen. Force of habit. I grew up in a small rural town when a lot of the old cars didn't have signal lights and hand signals were used by the drive to signal their intent. I saw a white tC on my way to work this morning and it was merging into traffic. The lady driving the car used her signal light and the light on the outside mirror was pretty cool! Maybe the manufacturers ought to put these in every car to get people to use them.
: )
Mackabee

Scion tC

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