Sulfur Smell from Toyota 4Runner

corancher · November 2003

Carbon monoxide is a result of incomplete combustion, and today's vehicles (if they're working correctly) are so well regulated in their combustion that they produce almost none. They use oxygen sensors and other technologies to adjust fuel/air ratios to burn cleanly and thereby reduce emissions and improve fuel economy.

I don't think that the exhaust smell indicates a hazard, just an (in some cases major) annoyance. Sulfur is detectable at very low concentrations, but it won't hurt you at those levels.

Lots more on this issue earlier in this thread, including suggestions for simple and cheap fixes. If your vehicle has the smell problem I wouldn't recommend waiting until Toyota changes things. Just check out these fixes or at least use fresh instead of recirculated air most of the time, and turn the fan on when you're stopped.

rogers12 · November 2003

You are correct about the normal levels of CO in exhaust, but I think it is just a bad idea to take a chance on this. What happens if your emissions controls malfunction? You have no warning and have a potentially dangerous situation. Not a big deal, I agree, but worth fixing if possible.

user777 · November 2003

why did toyota change a ("lazy" i think it was called) 02 sensor on one of the vehicles several posts back?

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corancher states:
>>>Carbon monoxide is a result of incomplete combustion, and today's vehicles (if they're working correctly) are so well regulated in their combustion (if they're working correctly)<<<

for me, that's been part of my interest all along.

how would you know if the fuel delivery / combustion, emissions control systems weren't working correctly?

resumespeed · November 2003

Or is this just with the 2003s? After reading through all of these posts I am sure glad I did not buy a 2003. I imagine the resale value will take a big hit on models with the sulfur issue. I wonder when Toyota will wake up and take care of these issues instead of hiding behind a wall as they have done in the past. It appears that all of the problems that have cropped up on this new design will not be ironed out until the 2005 model year. The old saying, "never buy a first year vehicle" sure holds true, even with a company such as Toyota that is known for great reliability.

derrickjones · November 2003

I found this thread by accident, actually doing research on the internet for this exact problem. Lucky for me, my google search showed this subject as its 2nd search result. I live in Texas, and spoke to Toyota this week. The comment I received from them was "this is the first time I have heard about this in Texas, we do have documentation of other vehicles in colder climates exhibiting this behavior." Someone mentioned an "easy fix" well without scrolling through 500+ posts, I would like to hear it, because it is a very annoying problem. The CO problem mentioned, intrigues me, so I will place a CO sensor in my 4runner and see if it reads anything. For those of you who think it doesn't exist or it is people being picky, you haven't a clue. In addition, whoever said it was the owner's problem and not Toyota's, could stand a little research in Tort 101. I can ASSURE you, that at least in my case, it will be Toyota's problem. If you think for one second that they will spend the kind of money it will take to defend even one lawsuit, vs, making the issue correct, you don't understand the cost of lawsuits (and it has very little to do with attorneys fees).

Anyway, my post here is simply to say that I am expecting a return call from Toyota, I will keep you advised to the results, and if anyone has found a fix that works, I would love to hear it.

corancher · November 2003

First to derrikjones: I know it's a pain but I would recommend you read all the posts in this thread. There is a ton of useful stuff here, including lots of suggestions and interesting perspectives, and I think you'll find it's worth the trouble. The problem does not appear to be very common, but when it's bad, it's very bad. All those who've smelled it agree it's a putrid smell.

rogers12, I agree with you. I should have taken more care with my post. One reasonable fix, a slight diversion of the exhaust to the side, should be fine, especially for those of us who don't get the smell on a regular basis. I normally don't use the recirculate position, so I'm not in a big hurry, but I plan to make the mod soon. You and user777 ask how an owner would know if the engine was running wrong, and putting out significant CO. You might get a check engine (MIL) light and/or poor mileage, but maybe not. It is indeed safer to just make sure that no significant exhaust gets into the cabin, and for this the smell is a useful marker.

I'll have to ask a friend (who knows this stuff) about the "lazy" O2 sensor, but I think that means the signal it's putting out is too weak or its oscillations are too slow. They are nonlinear devices, and I think they have a voltage or current output change that's very sudden around a specific level of oxygen in the exhaust. A bad sensor could make the engine run too rich, burning off the sulfur more frequently and continuously. All just speculation, unfortunately.

It continues to puzzle me why Toyota put that exhaust tip where they did, and I don't think anybody has proposed any compelling reasons. It may not be a very big problem in Toyota's eyes since it doesn't affect a very high percentage of the thousands of 4Runners (and it affects many other models as well), but you think they would at least reroute the darned exhaust.

lukeg · November 2003

I have 2004 4Runner 4x4 v8 Sport and it stinks too. Problem is not solved and dealer recommends playing with different brands of gas which have a lower sulfur lever. It is not Toyota, it the gas....

mylasttoyota · November 2003

This was posted on another forum for the 4-runner, does anyone have the issue of CR?

"consumer report has rated the reliabilty of the 2oo3 v6 4runner as the worst in its class.the reason that was given to me by them , is that according to consumer feedback there were problems with fuel systems,paint,trim,rust and body intregrity.has anyone who owns a v6 experienced any of these concerns"

tacoviva · November 2003

I live in the DFW area and I've already been through arbitration with Toyota. The comment about them not hearing of this in TX is an outright lie. I can send you the "official" Toyota response that acknowkledges the existence of this condition, in Texas. Whatever you do...do not use the Toyota sponsored process, you will lose. NCDS who handles the arbitration is biased and paid by Toyota.

I had to sell mine. Good luck and go back and read the entire forum you'll get some good info.

derrickjones · November 2003

Please send me the info, Tacoviva, as I would like their official response. My email is derrickjones@yahoo.com. Additionally, I will respond to your email with my phone number, as I would like to discuss with you. I am early in my process, but I will either have it fixed, or I will pursue legal action. I am completely serious and committed to that, as I happen to be uniquely positioned to pursue this regardless of cost. I am not simply saying "fix it or I will sue" I am giving Toyota every opportunity to fix it, and if they fail or neglect to do so, I will take it to the mat. Curious; I have the V8 Limited, which model do you have?

rogers12 · November 2003

I don't know if you can access this page:
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv2.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt- - - - - - - _id=357083&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=97851&ASSORTMENT%3C%3Eas- - - - - - - t_id=333137&bmUID=1069886399375

Here is the article summary:

"The 4Runner is now among the top-ranked SUVs in its price class and is fit for serious off roading. It's a big improvement over its predecessor, riding better than some car-based SUVs. Our tested V6 model delivered lively and effortless acceleration. Fuel economy was an unimpressive 16 mpg. Handling isn't as nimble, but is sound and secure with standard stability control. The interior feels substantial and well made. The seats are comfortable and afford a good view out. The power rear window and interior mirrors for reversing are nice touches. A third seat is a new option. The V6's reliability has been poor; the V8's excellent.

This review represents our latest advice on the current model. It's based on our expert perspective, plus the latest reliability and test data for this year's model or an essentially similar predecessor."

In the reliability ratings on the 2003 4Runner, only body integrity gets less than top marks. All other items, including engine, get the highest possible rating.

I think, all in all, that they have very little historical data to go on for the V6. You can bet that this engine, being from Toyota, will have great long-term reliability. Better than the V8? The jury is still out on that one.

tacoviva · November 2003

I saved all the email and other snail mail stuff they sent. I'm at home now and it's at work so I'll send it on monday if that's ok. I wish you luck and know how you feel. It's going to get worse.

I had the Sport Edition V8.

asif1 · November 2003

2004 4Runner, V6 2WD.
i would like to share my experience of sulfur smell by changing the type of Gas i use. for first 2k miles i always used 91 octace Chevron and had 2 time sulfur smell. the MPG was b/w 20 to 21.2 long distance and 15-16 in city. (V6 2WD). the mpg decreases as ur avg speed goes higher than 60. sweet spot is b/w 52-57.
recently i put 87 octacne Exxon and had worst experience ever. on a 250 mile one way trip, i smelled suflur inside cabin while cruising normally at 70-75 with the recirculation on. is'nt recirculation means, outside air cannot get in???. i changed it to fresh air and smell was gone. mpg with this 87 oct was around 22 (better). on my way back, i added 91 octane shell to 1/4 remaining tank and smelled no sulfur on my way back, mpg increased to 22.4, best i have ever got. no smell at all with or without recirc. i've been using 89 oct and 91 oct shell for the past 1500 miles and never smelled any thing except for when i switched to 87 oct Exxon.

my verdict, use better octane gas, go for SHELL or experiment other big brands and share your results.
asif

driftracer · November 2003

means air doesn't come in through the front vents, although some air comes in from the rear vents, resulting in air at the rear of the truck entering the cabin.

There is absolutely NO way to make a vehicle air tight. If you had a smelly diesel vehicle in front of you, you could turn your a/c to recirculate and stop the fumes from coming in through the vents in the front of the vehicle, but you'd still get SOME fumes from various other vents.

There's not a vehicle on the market that's air tight, since it would have to be sealed like Tupperware when you get in it - until Tupperware signs on to help car manufacturers, we'll have to live with some outside air getting in. If there's exhaust fumes mixed in the with the outside air, you'll smell that, too.

I can't get over all this crazy debate and dicussion over something as easy to understand as this - every vehicle we've all owned was not air tight. RECIRC mode takes air from the rear of the vehicle, so if you don't like smelling some exhaust, keep it on FRESH AIR mode. Then again, you may smell the sulphur smell from the vehicle in front of you - get used to it - every vehicle manufacturer is dealing with their catalytic converter's reaction to fuels, especially oxygenated fuels.

End of rant - thanks.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2003

At this point, if I owned one of these offending sulphur-runners, and if indeed and for sure a simple tailpipe extension would totally correct the problem now and forever, I'd do that and forget hassling with Toyota.

If that didn't fix it, then I'd pursue a more complex course for corrections.

Looking down that long hard road of convincing a major corporation of a design defect, and then getting it corrected, the $50 fix seems so much simpler.

derrickjones · November 2003

I am trying to slowly weed my way through the 500+ messages, your post indicates this is a fix... Is it?

corancher · November 2003

derrickjones, quite a bit of logic and a little bit of reported experience does suggest that the tailpipe extension will fix the problem. That is, if you define "fix" to mean keeping the smell largely out of the cabin, even when you use the recirculate position on the HVAC. As for the reason why a few 4Runners (and other vehicles) produce the smell from the tailpipe on a regular basis and most do not, nobody (at least not anybody who's talking) seems to have figured that out in a convincing fashion. There has been lots of speculation by me and others, here and elsewhere.

The tailpipe fix is straightforward and cheap. Some have described $10 extensions available at local auto parts stores, attached with a setscrew. I've described how you could try it temporarily with plastic pipe for about the same cost. If I had the smell problem I'd "fix" it in a minute.

For some reason there has been little or no commonality between those of us who would try the fix and those who actually have the problem. Therefore it's been hard to make headway on this issue in that area. tacoviva and I went at this hammer-and-tong (well, actually, we've been fairly civil) in this discussion a while back. You can search for our respective perspectives if you're interested. Apparently tacoviva did not try the fix, and has sold the vehicle.

derrickjones · November 2003

I do have the problem and am willing to attempt the "fix". This is not to say that in the meantime I am going to let Toyota off the hook. As a matter of fact, if it "works" I will use it to my advantage. Interestingly, I am 1/2 through this entire forum, and am astonished at some of what I have seen. I hope to try it on Sunday.

resumespeed · November 2003

is why did Toyota NOT catch this problem during pre-production testing? Certainly, as with all new cars, the vehicle was run through rigorous testing well in advance of the vehicle launch. You will never convince me that the sulfur problem did not come up during some phase of this testing.

I think it is deplorable that Toyota has not come to the table on this an admit there is a problem, and even more so to not offer an immediate fix. The sulfur problem was apparent way back when the 2003 models were launched, more than a year ago. And now we see it in the 2004 models. That tells me that Toyota really doesn't care, not at all.

Instead, the wonderful people at Toyota have decided it is "not their problem" and have pretty much avoided the issue and given owners the runaround. Are they not smart enough to realize the amount of customers and goodwill they have lost? Do they not see the bad aura hanging around the new 4Runners?

As far as the tailpipe extension, if it indeed helps, that's just a "patch" and doesn't really solve the issue. And why should owners of brand new vehicles have to deal with this? Why are they having to do their own "repairs"?

I look at some of the advice here and I am amazed. "keep your back window rolled up" or "set your A/C on this setting or that setting" is not something new owners should have to contend with. And yes, "Other vehicles have the problem" does not make it any better. I can't think of any other manufacturer that has this problem to the extent that the 4Runner does.

Wake up Toyota, I hope you are reading these forums.

derrickjones · November 2003

While I am waiting to try my own fix, I think it is humourous that Toyota is blaming the gas. There is an obvious problem with the 4runner, but according to Toyota, it's the gas. My Yukon XL uses the same gas from the same station, yet it manages to somehow cook the eggs before they get rotten.

Just rantin' will update you on my attempt with the exhaust extension as soon as I get a chance to do it.

user777 · November 2003

you say.."crazy debate"..

several posts back, someone mentioned the 04 manual references pulling in dust on dusty roads if the system is on recirc.

if true, that wouldn't be crazy or debatable would it?

now documenting that condition, and not documenting pulling in exhaust gases if the system is on recirc should be noteworthy.

would you seriously believe every automobile is purposefully designed to do this (allow dust and exhaust gas into the cabin), or, purposefully designed so that is avoided?

Mr_Shiftright · November 2003

resumespeed -- it could be that Toyota didn't catch it in pre-production testing because it didn't happen to their test cars, just as it doesn't seem to happen to some 4-runner owners in this forum. That's one explanation anyway.

asif1 · November 2003

While I am waiting to try my own fix, I think it is humourous that Toyota is blaming the gas.

derrickjones, read my post earlier as i have definatly observed change in smell with Gas change. The V6 in 4runner is newest engine in toyota fleet. not sure about V8.
May be in japan where they tested their vehicle had different sulfur content in Gas and they designed their vehicle according to that. There must be some standard of having a particular contents in gas but as we know it still varies b/w different brands, shell, bp, exxon. Many brands add additives to their fuel for different purposes, increased mileage, valve cleaning, reduce knocking. It might be cleaining the valve better but different chemical composition might be giving out by products of sulfur after ignition, burning, going thru catalyic converter. I guess a chemical expert can shed some light on it. Have you seen the Shell comercial on TV, they claim to have better mileage and i did'nt believe till i observed it myself. Also take into consideration the fact that continous use of Techron added Chevron might errode the valves, chamber and top of piston. Remember, If you buy a concentrate they ask you to use it with atleast 10 litre Gas. BP is so hyped up with environmental cleaning, CITGO infact makes spill cleaning and other petroleum products. so i guess their Gas must have some reflection of their standards. neway i dont want you guys to spend next few months trying different Gases, just take it easy and try using better gas.

On the other hand, with toyota we all expect top notch quality. It is also hard to believe for me that their design engineers have not taken into consideration the driving conditions in US.

I was also thinking if this sulfur problem is in a particular region, North, South, etc. Does the outside temperature plays any role?. I know the gas mileage is better in summer than winter. I am in extreme south(Louisiana) where we have warm weather till nov.

asif

micksdad1 · November 2003

Read an interesting article in the Chicago Tribune today (11/29 Business Section) entitled 'Cleaner' gas may stretch life of catalytic converters.

Beginning in 1/1, per an EPA mandate, gasoline w/lower sulfur content will be coming to pumps resulting in catalytic converters lasting longer and reducing tailpipe emissions.

Per the article, sulfur content in gasoline now averages 340 ppm nationally. Refiners must reduce that to 120 ppm in 2004, 90 in 2005 and 30 in 2006. The law allows up to 300 ppm in 2004 so that the gas that comes out of any given pump may not be of low sulfur variety.

The article further noted that low sulfur gas is currently available from some brands, such as BP PLC's premium grade Amoco Ultimate, which has 30 ppm, available in Chicago and 40 other major cities.

You draw your own conclusions.

tacoviva · November 2003

Rancher,

While I respect your opinion, if a $10 fix were available, then Toyota would've done it. And yes we've written about this problem to extent.

To all the folks out there with this problem, if there was an easy fix, Toyota would've come up with it.

As it stands, the only way to fix it is to sell it, or install a $1000 Borla.

rogers12 · November 2003

For $10, it is worth everyone's while to try it. It may work for many. Don't give up on a great truck because you don't try the obvious.

resumespeed · November 2003

"To all the folks out there with this problem, if there was an easy fix, Toyota would've come up with it."

"Easy fix" or not, there is no excuse why Toyota has not come up with some sort of a solution. No excuse whatsoever. They are raking in record profits these days. Worse, not only have they not even attempted any type of fix, they continue to deny that the sulfur is even a "problem".

And the "$10" exhaust tip is not a "fix", but merely a slight workaround that **might** prevent some of the sulfur from entering the cabin.

Toyota should have jumped on this from day one. They are only digging themselves into a deeper and deeper hole which is starting to put yet another dent in their "reputation" and that of the 4Runner.

derrickjones · November 2003

Today I decided to try the suggested $10 fix, and went to 3 auto parts stores and a Midas shop. The outside diameter of the exhaust stock exhaust is 2.5", there is not an off the shelf extension that will fit over that. There goes the $10 fix. So I decided to see how much money it would take to fix it, as I want to have it fixed, and I will let my legal folks figure out how to have Toyota pay for it.

Next stop Midas Muffler shop. They had no off the shelf extension, and furthermore, they are not allowed to extend the end of the exhaust past the rear bumper (something about burnt eggs smell better than burnt flesh). That only leaves a couple of options:

1) weld a custom downward angle on the end OR
2) weld a custom outward angle on the end

There is not really enough room for the outward angle, as the muffler is to close to the end of the extension, so that only leaves one option and that is putting a downward extension on the end.

They didn't have time today to give me an estimate, but he wasn't too encouraging about how it would look. Anyway, no $10 "FIX". I am tempted to just get rid of it, as I like the new Touareg (but hate the name) and let the courts decide if my loss was in Toyota's responsibility. I bet they will

I am happy to hear suggestions.

Taco, I feel your pain and look forward to your paperwork.

woodyr1 · November 2003

Hi Derrickjones:

I am considering a 4Runner V8 to replace my Nissan Pathfinder. I have a chrome 'exhaust finisher' on the end of the tailpipe, that is about 3" OD, and has some set screws to position it on the tailpipe. If you have an Infiniti dealer in your vicnity, it is off a QX4, after 2001, with the 3.5 litre engine. Both the Nissan and the Toyota have a straight exhaust out the rear, so it can extend the pipe, perhaps into the slipstream. It sells for about $45 Canadian, and might do the trick. I don't have the part number handy, but it is called an 'exhaust finisher'. Hope it may help!

asif1 · November 2003

Guys, i dont understand the need to sell vehicle and for few small problems. despite of sulfur smell and some other minor complaints its a gr8 truck. tourag, pathfinder and any other SUV dont even come close to the rugged looks and offroad capability this vehicle has. Do i feel bad about sulfur smell, yes i do but this is so rare of a problem and i am aware of it b/c i've become too concious about it. Was i dissapointed by Toyota, yes, to some extent. But this problem is fairly eliminated by using better gas. Did'nt u read the post that some oil companies are selling low sulfur content gas. i hav'nt tried those since my pb was sloved just by using SHELL 89 octane.
About that exhaust smell getting in cabin, it is also eliminated by changing it to fresh air with-in minutes.
Do we live in air tight world where no smell can enter our nose. Hav'nt u guys ever breathed in open air ever?.
Have you driven this vehicle for 5-10 k miles?. come on. take it easy...you should have done your study before buying a new vehicle, instead of selling it right away.

derrickjones · November 2003

First of all, it doesn't matter whether it is recirc, or "fresh" air, so there goes that argument. I also ride a Harley, I sorta understand what outside emissions smell like. Waiting 5-10K miles came 8-13K miles ago for me (18K miles and still stinkin'). And finally, the MOST important point is, changing the gas eliminates the odor, NOT the fact that the vehicle is emitting its own emissions right back in the truck. As far as your suggestion about researching a vehicle, you are right on the money. I researched this thing to death before I bought it, that's why I made the choice. I hope other folks are doing the same thing so they can see that they are potentially throwing money away. I can assure if this discussion group existed at my time of purchase, I would have been much better off.

highlander7 · November 2003

This evening I was walking out of the local supermarket when I noticed a person loading groceries into their new 4Runner. I had to ask the questions, How do you like your 4Runner?, What size engine do you have?, What year is it?, When did you buy? and last I asked....ever get a sulfur odor?

Answers:
>Best truck she ever owned, loved the vehicle.

>It is a 2003 V8 SR5 purchased in May 03.

>And she never has smelled an odor other then the first week when new. She drives with the back window down all the time and never has had a problem.

>She uses Mobil regular.

Her previous vehicle was the 1999 4Runner SR5. Until buying her 03, this 99 was her favorite, she really did not want to let it go.

After all my questions she realized who I was, she teaches with my wife, I was embarrassed that I did not recognize her, I was only doing my informal survey. Her husband has a new Tundra with the 4.7 L., I need to ask him the same questions.

I have now discussed this with four owners of new 4Runners and have driven five different 4Runners. Only one of the four people had some odor when first accelerating hard, then no problems after that. I noticed it on one of the five trucks I test drove, again after hard acceleration with the back window down, Maybe it is a combination of the gas used and how it is driven??
Or maybe 1 in 200 owners have a problem with the smell. ( just a guess!)

Yes I do have some concerns, I pick up my V8 Ltd this week. I will use premium (low sulpur gasoline) when possible and if I have the odor will have the Borla exhaust installed. I am convinced that this is the best mid size SUV and will not consider anything else. If I thought otherwise I would keep my 02 SR5 a few more years.

Interesting note: I was behind a Trailblazer last week and guess what.... it was emitting a sulpur smell much worse than the one 4Runner I had tested. Maybe the sulpur smell is the least of this Trailblazer owners concerns?

derrickjones · November 2003

Hope your informal survey works to your advantage, I really do.

corancher · December 2003

derrickjones, your Midas guys must have been having an off day. I can understand their reluctance to extend the exhaust farther rearward (though the entire exhaust system on the 4Runner is so long that the tip on mine never seems to get very hot) but that seems like a less-than-optimal solution anyway. The air directly behind a blunt-ended vehicle like this one seems like a poor place to dump the exhaust.

I'm surprised that the Midas folks didn't suggest cutting about 5" off the pipe and welding on an elbow (or making a 45-90 deg. kink in the existing tube) to dump the exhaust out the side. That's also a better solution (in terms of ground clearance) than a downward extension. As far as I can tell, this is basically what the Borla systems do. No chance of burning anybody, better ground clearance, and it places the exhaust tip more into moving air and farther from the cabin vent outlets.

As far as the Touareg goes, I'd research that vehicle very carefully. The info I've seen so far places its reliability/durability right there with the rest of the VW line, and that is not very encouraging.

tacoviva, I only partly agree with your conclusions: "...if there was an easy fix, Toyota would've come up with it. As it stands, the only way to fix it is to sell it, or install a $1000 Borla." I think a good diversion to the side would qualify as an easy fix to one part of the problem, and would be the equivalent (for this purpose) of the Borla. It doesn't fix the fundamental problem of frequent smell production, though, and I agree with you there.

If this problem was more prevalent with the V6 instead of the V8 I'd suspect a cause from some of the V6's more recent technologies such as variable valve timing or fuel/air sensors instead of oxygen sensors (I won't bore the group with the explanation; ask if you're interested). But that isn't the case, and nothing I've seen explains why Toyota hasn't diverted the exhaust.

I'd test the diversion myself with plastic pipe. The exhaust tip is just over 2.55" OD and just under 2.5" ID. You could even use a standard sweep elbow from central vacuum tubing (about 2.25" OD at the shoulder), taped on the outside to make it bigger. You can divert the exhaust more than 8" to the side without any danger of contacting or burning anybody, and I think that would get it completely away from the cabin vents.

micksdad1 · December 2003

I'm on the same page with your highlander7. I plan on getting my 4Runner toward the end of April and too will try the low sulfur gas and if that doesn't work have the dual borla exhaust system installed. Let us know if you've had to go the dual borla route.

sacstate1 · December 2003

Incorrectly over-inflated price stated of $1,000 for the dual Borla. Must be buying it at Jack's Mark-up shop or Taco's embellishment center.

You can buy the Borla for $600.

mylasttoyota · December 2003

Your "informal" survey was extremely useful. Thanks for the help, pal. I now realize that everyone, except for people you talk to, is making up a fictitious problem. Toyota even issued a TSB for the made-up problem. Arent you waiting for your new highlander to arrive?
I have tried low sulfur, reformulated gas, every brand, every grade and they all stink.

A $600 or $1000 new exhaust for a new car is complete crap. Once you consider time, effort, and aggravation what is the total?? No matter the cost, it is to much for a new vehicle.

For all of you posting, I am just waiting for class action.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Seems to me that if someone posts "never had the problem", he is certainly not saying "you don't have the problem".

You may recall my posting "no problem" with a 2003 rental 4-Runner, but I would never imply that the problem doesn't exist! I believe you 100%.

What this informal survey says, at the very minimum, is that not every 4-runner will do this. That's about the only positive conclusion one can make.

We don't know how many do and how many don't.

toyboxx · December 2003

You want to go from a Toy-egg to a Tour-egg. If you think the couple of problems in the 4Runner are bad you better go read the boards about that truck. At least the smelly, rattling 4Runner will start and get you where you need to go everyday.

asif1 · December 2003

Folks, i might sound funny on this but i've observed that 4Runner's modified shape which has wider base, increased length adds to sulfur problem. The contour / shape of 4Runner smoothly reduces in terms of cabin height cabin width (not the base) as going towards back of vehicle, to accomodate rear axle and suspension. This results in air dynamics to create a slight negative pressure on back / trunk area and thats why we see lot of dust and road debris on rear window. This also results in poor exhaust of exhuast as it causes same exahust to go back through rear wents. The eddying and Churning effect of exhaust on back further let the same exhaust to stay on back for a while before getting mixed with fresh air. Those of you familiar with Computational Fluid Dynamics, laminar and turbulant flow and flow through restriction will understand this phenomenon. This will also give the vehicle a slightly favorable air drift from back to aid in speed and countor-act the opposing wind direction, if any.
If this is true to some extent then we will feel exhaust/sulfur smell more pronounced while cruising at set speed on a straight road.

we dont see 4Runner's shape or even similar shape in other vehicles. Sequioa, LandCruise, Siena are fairly wide from back. Tourage has complete round shape. GM, Ford and other American SUV are fairly flat from back and from sides. May be all other vehicles have this sulfur pb to some extent but their chance of having it in cabin is lot less than 4Runner due to its shape.

I am very sure, diverting the exhaust to side should eliminate the pb at all.
Why toyota missed this, i cant understand.

Not a sure theory, worth thinking. If side exhuast work for you guys, i'll definatly go for it.
asif

alfster1 · December 2003

"...and thats why we see lot of dust and road debris on rear window."

Isn't that true for SUVs (and some minivans) in general? I assume you are referring to 4Runners without the rear wing because I know with the wing, my rear cargo window always stays clean.

Interesting theory though. The 4Runner shape is unique and may have unique air flow characteristics, but even so, why do some 4Runners have the sulfur problem while others don't? It's a true mystery.

asif1 · December 2003

Alfster1, its true that rear wing channels the air flow from top to wipe throught rear cargo window and cleans dust / debris.

The issue of sulfur smell is a combination of certain wind conditions / Gas type and Road condition. curved roads, side ways wind, strong / weak wind might alter the exhaust getting in through vents.
Do you notice sulfur/exhaust smell oftenly, even though you have rear wing. Diverting some air from top to flow sharply from rear window should help in reducing the exhaust getting in to some extent, but since top of vehicle is mostly at same level, air flowing from sides should be more responsible for poor exhaust's exhuast.
just my thoughts
asif

tacoviva · December 2003

This is from The Borla website.
Make
TOYOTA

Vehicle
4RUNNER

Model
4.0L V6/4.7L V8 2+4WD AT/MT 4DR
legend

Year
2003

Part Number
140036

Your Price
$869.99

That's not even installed. You may have some inside track to a cheaper version, but most of us will pay $869.99+ installation. I thought, and still think, that $1000 was conservative.

Please stop posting bad information.

link...

http://borla.com/

Derrick,

I sent you all the soft info I have. If you need more, I can use snail mail. I really hope this helps.

sacstate1 · December 2003

I agree with the air flow theory. When I have my back window open and driving on dusty roads the interior of my truck is coated with dust! I believe the rear window is sucking in more dust and contaminants that if the back window was closed and the side windows open. The rear 'spoiler' helps with water, but with fine dust/sand, you better keep you windows up unless you want to spend the entire day vacuuming the interior.

At 9,172 miles, no unusual obnoxious odor or smell, with or without the rear window down.

sacstate1 · December 2003

You probably paid 'invoice' for your Toyota also. If that is all the research you did about your problem.....? Check out any aftermarket company, Borla sells for $609 to $675. Installation takes a 14mm socket wrench, the ability to read English and about one hour.
Taco, you still here? I thought you were spending time with your family? Or writing rave reviews about your new Honda?

alfster1 · December 2003

I only notice sulfur smell occasionally if I drive with the rear cargo window open, which I almost never do.

tacoviva · December 2003

post the link.

sacstate1 · December 2003

http://www.exhaustproslinc.com/

$675 + $30 shipping

tacoviva · December 2003

They don't offer the Borla for the 4Runner. Like I said, it's about 1k.

sacstate1 · December 2003

Did you call them? Again, try a little harder in your effort. Their site only lists the Tacoma. I have the Borla, I know how much it cost.

Ok, using your inflated purchase price of $1,000, how much did you lose by dumping yours so fast? Don't say you almost broke even by trading it in, you lost at least $5,000. So, had you spent another 20% of what you lost by trading in early you might have remedied your problem.

Sulfur Smell from Toyota 4Runner

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