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Sulfur Smell from Toyota 4Runner

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    cl3incocl3inco Member Posts: 10
    Well, the time has come for me to consider replacing my 87 4Runner. Test drove the 2004 V8 Limited. Was initially impressed. As the original owner for my 87 4Runner, with 185,000 miles, it's has lost some spunk over the years. But it is the most reliable automobile I have had for 17 years. I have 3 autos in the household, and the 4Runner beats all. But, a loss of performance during mountain driving in Colorado has positioned me into replacing with new. Plus, I have a few interested buyers in wanting to purchase the 87 for around $3000, knowing the dependability. They are conversion specialist for 4WD shops; so they know. The aftermarket Soft Top is in perfect condition as well, considering I traveled from our beach home back to MD/VA during Hurricane Hugo years ago with the soft top on; no leaks at all.

    However, with all this talk about the emission odors (as well as emissions that do not have odors) within the cabin, I suspect I may hold out for another year until such time a PR announcement can be finalized by Toyota. I hope Toyota is listening; If they want owner loyalty to continue, then they must impress this 17 year loyal customer.

    Everyone knows we don't drive around with the back window down. This was known in 87. However, fumes coming into the cabin from other entrances of the car are a problem. I will frequent this site often for updates. In the meantime, if anyone has information regarding buying/selling price for 87 4Runner, please respond. Vehicle has been kept in good condition, except for WARN hubs that replaced Toyota Automatic hubs about 10 years ago.
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    sequoiasoonsequoiasoon Member Posts: 223
    While you wait and decide on new, try tossing in a can or 2 of BG 44K into your fuel tank. If you've never had the fuel injectors cleaned you'll be amazed at the difference! You can get it at many Toyota dealers. Check the website www.bgprod.com My Corolla had 130k on it the first time I used it (from somebody elses recommendation) After the first tank I was like holy crap, I didn't think the car had lost so much power until I got it back. Cost about $15 a can but it's like 10x as powerful as Techron.
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    gooner3gooner3 Member Posts: 3
    Glad to hear you've had great luck with your '87 4runner. I purchased an '03 V6 2 months ago, and have yet to smell the sulfer odor. Needless to say, I picked up my '04 Gran Prix last week (company vehicle,) and when I pulled out of the dealership I smelled eggs. I'm sure the dealership filled it up with 87 octane, and I'm filling the 4runner up with 91. This problem isn't just with the 4runner.

    I'm very loyal to Toyota, having owned a Tacoma and Camry in the past. You will not be upset with the overall quality of the truck. If your leary, stick with an '04 or wait for the '05's. I couldn't wait that long. I think Toyota does a great job of listening to their customers, and would not risk putting out faulty redesigns. Check the TSB's for all new models...

    -Avalanche, 1 recall, 64 TSB's
    -Trailblazer, 4 recalls, 60 TSB's
    -H2, 1 recall, 71 TSB's
    -4runner, 0 recalls, 25 TSB's
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    tangmantangman Member Posts: 127
    I just order an 04 and sold my 87 4-Runner. Mine was a totally stock SR5. They are selling in the northwest for between $3000 and $4,000 when they are in excellent condition.

    For the sulfur problem, has anyone compiled a list of people having problems or the states where the sulfur smell is the most common. I would think that some very angry buyers would have checked notes with others having the same problem.
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    cl3incocl3inco Member Posts: 10
    Curious to know what model you ordered, options, and price you paid??? Also, did you notice a supplemental sticker that references "Regional Price Adjustment"? I guess some local dealers don't realize the economy still sucks for a few of us.
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    tangmantangman Member Posts: 127
    Hi:

    I ordered a v8 sport, no sun roof, 6cd, spoiler, mats, AC plug, auto dimming mirror. My strategy for price comparison is againt MSRP since all dealers have the exact same MSRP number for a vehicle configuration. Most important is to do your homework and know precisely what you want. Forget invoice, since many dealer place spin on the invoice number. No regional price adjustments, but I did have the TDA (regional advertising)which all dealers claim they must pay and does show on the invoice. I don't have the vehicle yet, so I cann't say what I paid. You never know with toyota dealers. It is an actual factory order since V8 sports without a sunroof are very rare in the northwest. The closest I could find one was in LA (CA). My goal is $3000 less than MSRP. We will see on delivery.
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    reddfishreddfish Member Posts: 54
    The smell problem has been reported in all states, including CA. The V8 seems to have the worse record as far as the number of complaints go. I wish I had kept my 91 runner. Good Luck. If it's not to late, you may want to reconsider.
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    4runnaway4runnaway Member Posts: 11
    I have a 2004 4Runner Limited with 300 miles on it. I had my first whiff of the sulfur smell today and I am just crossing my fingers that it will go away. From reading all these posts, I am not very optimistic. Apparently, Toyota has not done anything to solve the "first year" glitches. Has Toyota addressed this problem at all or are they just saying, "tough luck"? This is my third Toyota and I know someone who also has a new 04 4Runner and he loves it. I thought I was making an informed purchase, but now I wonder.... It never occurred to me that the smell of eggs would be a problem with a new car purchase.
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    reddfishreddfish Member Posts: 54
    Toyota is aware of the problem, but they will probably deny it initially. I hope your problem goes away, mine did not. If the problem continues, take it back to the dealer and document everything that is said and done, including date, time, and who you spoke with. You may need this info later. dm
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    rcgatorrcgator Member Posts: 22
    Our Sequoia was repurchased by Toyota. They tried everything to get rid of the smell and it didn't work. They repurchased it without our having to take them to court or anything.

    Once we got beyond the local dealership level, we were treated very well by Toyota. We turned right around and bought a Sienna. I know that's probably anathema to most SUV owners, but my mommy instincts prevailed. I needed something safe for the kids, so I'm back to the mommy-mobile.

    I'm SO glad to have finally gotten rid of this problem. I hope the rest of you having this problem get it resolved very quickly.
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    toyboxxtoyboxx Member Posts: 150
    I don't think you'll miss the Sequoia. The Sienna has all the utility and a better ride and gas mileage than the truck.
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    79377937 Member Posts: 390
    My new 04 Chevy Malibu also gave off the famous smell a few times. It was purchased in the SF Bay Area. If ever a car is tightly sealed it's this one. The last open door really has to be slammed in order to close it. So I haven't got a clue as to how the smell can enter the cabin. Somehow the smell must come in via the climate control vents and they are far from the tail pipe.

    The dealer filled up the tank with gas just before I took it off the lot. No doubt the cheapest there is.
    I'm happy to report that the smell is now gone after I filled up with a better known brand of gas.
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    79377937 Member Posts: 390
    Three conditions are necessary for "rotten egg" or hydrogen sulfide odor to be present in exhaust gasses:
    - Hot catalytic converter
    - Sulfur in the fuel
    - Rich air-fuel ratio, at least momentarily.

    Of these three, the quantity of sulfur present in the fuel is the most variable, and most difficult to control for both a vehicle manufacturer and a customer.

    High amounts of sulfur in fuel can cause not only a rotten egg odor in exhaust gasses, but also certain re-active sulfurs can corrode silver contacts in the fuel level sender, causing erroneous fuel gauge readings.

    At present, there is no EPA requirement for the level of sulfur in fuel, outside of the state of California, and the ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials) specification limit is 1000 parts per million (PPM). To put that number into perspective, the current limit for sulfur in California phase 2 gasolines requires an average of less than 30 PPM.

    In 2004, the EPA will begin limiting the sulfur content in gasoline. In 2004, the EPA limit for the corporate average sulfur content will be 120 ppm, and no single gasoline can exceed 300 ppm (except for small refiner exemptions). By 2006, the corporate average will be limited to 30 ppm (the current California limit), with a maximum of 80 ppm (except for small refiner delays). California Phase 3 gasoline, which will be available next year, will have a maximum sulfur content of 15 ppm.

    In the absence of an identified vehicle condition, customers can be advised to temporarily change to a premium grade brand of fuel from a major supplier such as Shell, Exxon, Texaco or Chevron. Premium fuels in general have been found to have lower sulfur levels. However, even these suppliers can be susceptible in areas where base fuels are delivered either by pipeline or from the same refinery.

    TIP: Dealers should refrain from attempting repairs or replacing catalytic converters for odor complaints, unless there is a MIL indicating a part deficiency.

    - Thanks to Bob Furey and Jay Dankovich
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    jjenkensjjenkens Member Posts: 26
    I just bought my 2k4 Ltd V8 4Runner.. Does this mean I'll have to give up using cheap gas from Sam's?? I'd assume it is of a lesser grade then major brands.

    For the record everyone, I bought my 4Runner a few days ago and may, may have had a whiff once, but it was on hard acceleration, w/out recirc on. Then again, it was so faint, it may have been my imagination. So I'm VERY happy with the results and accompanying lack of smells thus far.
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    rcgatorrcgator Member Posts: 22
    Lovin' the Sienna so far!
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    fudge123fudge123 Member Posts: 12
    Just wondering if anyone experienced this problem. I own a 2003 4 Runner SR5 V8. Yes I get the occasional sulfer smell. Two weeks ago the check engine light came on and "VSC Trac" and "VSC off" lights came on and stayed on. I took it to the dealer (not my normal dealer) and they reported the following:
    Scan Tool retrieved DTC PO420 Tech. checked sensor data and all within spec. No corrections at this time. No problem found.

    The Technician simply reset the computer and the check engine light went off. Well today, the check engine light and VSC lights came back on again. I called the dealer and the tech told me that the code had to do with the catalytic converter. I asked him at what point do they decide that the converter should be replaced? He told me that I would have to bring it in and if the code was the same they would have to check the specs again. What specs? He stated the sensors worked with spec so doesn't that mean there is really a problem? What kind of sensors monitor the catalytic system?

    Also, I don't know if this is a coincidence or not, but my gas mileage went from an average of 18.5 MPG (combined city highway) to 16.2 MPG over the past couple of months. I use regular unleaded 87 octane. I tried different gasses, but it didn't seem to make a difference.

    Any help would be appreciated!
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    driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    to list "No problem found", but to have a trouble code (DTC PO420) is a flat out lie.

    The ONLY excuse I can see is if that DTC is for a loose fuel cap. Doesn't explain the traction control warning lights, though.

    I'd be having a discussion with the service manager.
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    sequoiasoonsequoiasoon Member Posts: 223
    Have you checked the brake fluid? The VSC and Trac rely on modulating the brakes. There is a sensor in the reservoir that if the fluid is a little low (like when the brakes are 1/2 worn) that registers as a trouble code and disables the VSC and TRAC systems. There is one TSB for the VSC light staying on due to a logic error in the skid control computer.
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    jaesee75edmundjaesee75edmund Member Posts: 39
    18.5 from a v8? even your 16.2 is very high. i've found the truck's computer to overestimate the gas mileage by about 2mpg. i live in nyc and average 13 to 14 mpg. the most i got out of it was about 17.5 on a road trip. i've also switched grades of gas, without any changes in gas mileage.
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    rogers12rogers12 Member Posts: 140
    If there is a A/F ratio or O2 sensor after the catalytic converter, then that is the monitor they were referring to.
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    bed33bed33 Member Posts: 3
    Purchase a new 2003 V6 basic 4 runner, no spoiler,
    about a year ago and have 19K miles on it now.
    The smell does not go away!

    Experienced the smell most recently while towing small trailer.
    Made the wife and kids moan and groan out load, it was that strong.
    A couple of weeks earlier experienced the same strong smell 3 or 4 times during a 3 hour trip from Mass up to New Hampshire, yet did not get it once coming back.

    Called Toyota hotline and they registered my complaint, suggesting I take it in to the dealer.
    They said they would notify the dealer of my pending visit. I hope they can help but I'm very pessamistic after reading almost all the previous posts on the subject.

    I have to say I was surprised that many posts didn't think it was much of a problem.
    To me it's very simple, A new car should not have that kind of smell, ever. I don't care about the gas, driving conditions, etc. These are all normal inputs that Toyota should have considered in building the 4 runner. You can't say that because the manual says don't drive with the rear window down Toyota is free and clear. Putting a rear window on a SUV, with dashboard controls, begs for it to be used.

    I work for a medical device company and in our risk analysis process we cannot dismiss things easily by saying we say don't do it in manual. IF we know operators will do something we need to have several layers of mitigation. Toyota needs to do more to solve this problem.
    To their credit, I had also experienced the sun roof rattle and they fixed it with no issue.
    I showed them the service bulletin I found on this site.
    Thanks for all the good info and keep it up.
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    alfster1alfster1 Member Posts: 273
    " have to say I was surprised that many posts didn't think it was much of a problem.
    To me it's very simple, A new car should not have that kind of smell, ever. I don't care about the gas, driving conditions, etc. "

    ** I think that there are not very many posts because most people don't experiece this sulfur problem. For others that do, it may only happen under certain conditions and to various extents. The only time in the past where I have experieced the Sulfur problem is when driving with the rear cargo window open. Recently, I drove for about 50mi with the rear window opened and didn't smell any sulfur gases. It has finally gone away under all conditions for me after 12,000 mi.

    I do agree, however, with you that manufacturers should do all in their power to reduce harmful emissions from entering the passenger cabin. Fortunately, with this newest TSB, Toyota is "doing the right thing." I hope that this TSB will solve all problems with the aformentioned issue. Perhaps if Toyota really wanted to prevent drivers from operating the rear cargo window while driving, they would have some sort of a mechanism preventing it. I do find it somewhat disconcerting that the rear cargo window can be opened from the key fob, but must be closed either via key or the dash mounted button control.

    I do believe that if the manual warms someone not to do something, then the owner should not do it. If Sulfur only entered the passenger compartment while the rear cargo window was opened, then I am sure that very few people would have reason to complain. However, if sulfur can enter under other conditions (ie. all windows closed), then this is a true safety hazard. I agree that the rear window control is pretty tempting to operate and to "show off" the convenience of the rear powered cargo window.
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    bed33bed33 Member Posts: 3
    Do you have a link to the TSB you mentioned or the #?

    Regards,
    Bill
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    alfster1alfster1 Member Posts: 273
    See post #9914 in the Toyota 4Runner forum
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    4rnr4rnr Member Posts: 25
    Yes, I posted the Rotten Egg TSB in the main 4 Runner forum for maximum exposure. The NHTSA item number is 10007092 and refers to the Lexus GX 470 Odor TSB. No item number yet for the 4 Runner but it will not be long I don't think.
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    loudog2loudog2 Member Posts: 83
    I was on another site and found out that there is a TSB on the sulfur problem for the 2003-04 v6. The person posted the letter he got. From two production plants(forgot names's), with certain vin #'s.
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    md4runnermd4runner Member Posts: 17
    on another forum website i found the following link:

    http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachment.php?s=624892871fccbc66a3- 725dc96ae1bdfa&postid=30258

    it should take you to the TSB form for the sulfur smell for v6's...
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    my2centsmy2cents Member Posts: 20
    For owners of 2003-2004 4Runners that stink there has now been a TSB issued to help relieve the problem. Effective May 27,2004 this TSB includes flashing your Electronic Control Module (ECM) with a new set of instructions and the replacement of the catalytic converter assembly. This TSB is identified as “EG015-04” and is applicable to V6 engines only with VIN numbers that are earlier than the following numbers: (2WD) JTEZU##R#40026890, (4WD) JTEZU##R#40032900, (2WD) JTEZU##R#480115332, and (4WD) JTEZU##R#480119048. Remember that this coverage is provided if you have a complaint. Toyota is not anticipated to send you a notice of a recall. A recall for V6 engines is also coming on potential oil leaks stemming from an error in fabrication of the crankshaft pulley housing. Effected customers should receive a recall in the mail. Unfortunately I don’t have the numbers for this recall yet but your dealer should already be aware of this work and the effected vehicles.
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    tloke1tloke1 Member Posts: 185
    "there are not very many posts because most people don't experiece this sulfur problem..."

    This has been one of the most common "issues" affecting 2003 and 2004 4Runner owners. How many specific vehicle problems generate 700 posts on just one web site?

    "Fortunately, with this newest TSB, Toyota is "doing the right thing..."

    Toyota may be "doing the right thing" (finally!), but how long have they skirted the issue? For almost 1-1/2 years they have pretty much ignored the problem, advising owners to "change fuel brands" or to "drive with the windows up" etc. Meanwhile, owners have had to buy and install their own tailpipe extensions, drive with their windows up, and go through the hassles of "self testing" different fuel brands.

    Toyota did not go through the trouble and expense to issue this TSB because "only a few owners complained", they did so because they were forced to due to a massive amount of complaints.

    What is really apalling with this issue is the fact that Toyota is STILL using the SAME defective parts on current model production! According to the TSB dealers are advised to install the corrected parts ONLY if a customer complains of the sulfur order! That tells me the new 2005 models will probably also have this issue. Unbelievable.
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    alfster1alfster1 Member Posts: 273
    "This has been one of the most common "issues" affecting 2003 and 2004 4Runner owners. How many specific vehicle problems generate 700 posts on just one web site?"

    ** There may have been 700 posts, but were they 700 specific, separate cases? Yes, it is one of the more commonly mentioned problems with the new 4Runner, but considering the many tens of thousands sold, there is still a comparatively small number of complaints specific to the sulfur problem.**

    "Toyota may be "doing the right thing" (finally!), but how long have they skirted the issue? For almost 1-1/2 years they have pretty much ignored the problem, advising owners to "change fuel brands" or to "drive with the windows up" etc. Meanwhile, owners have had to buy and install their own tailpipe extensions, drive with their windows up, and go through the hassles of "self testing" different fuel brands."

    **Sorry to say "it's better late than never," but even Toyota can make mistakes. Some of the so called remedies mentioned by Toyota are shameful. If I had these sulfur problems, I would probably also feel disenchanted, considering I have owned Toyotas over the past 17 years. Changing fuel to a lower sulfur content fuel seems to have helped many people with this problem. What really is interesting is that if the sulfur problem is due to a design flaw, shouldn't many more 4Runners be affected? I am now able to drive with all (or any) of my windows open, even the "forbotten" rear cargo window.**

    "Toyota did not go through the trouble and expense to issue this TSB because "only a few owners complained", they did so because they were forced to due to a massive amount of complaints."

    **Remember,this is only a TSB, not a recall. If a large number of vehicles were affected and the issue was truly dangerous, then a government mandated recall would probably be evident. A TSB is usually issued for smaller issues or for a smaller number of affected vehicles. It is entirely possible that a recall could be issued at a later time. I realize that this is little consolation for an owner with this sulfur problem. I guess it's our responsibility to let anyone we know who has a 4Runner know about the TSB and let the owner decide what action to take.**

    "According to the TSB dealers are advised to install the corrected parts ONLY if a customer complains of the sulfur order! That tells me the new 2005 models will probably also have this issue. Unbelievable."

    **Of course, the owner must complain if they have an issue with the sulfur 'odor.' Toyota has no idea which vehicles are affected. It is up to the owner to seek a remedy if their is a problem. This doesn't, however, imply that the 2005 modles will have this sulfur issue.

    Without seeing any official figures (because there are none), it would appear that looking through the past posts that most issues with the sulfur odor appear more frequently on the '03 than on the '04 model year.

    Every model redesign has the potential for posessing a flaw. The 4Runner is not immune. However, the sulfur problem, while evident in some vehicles, still comprises a minority of all 4Runners sold.**
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    tloke1tloke1 Member Posts: 185
    "** There may have been 700 posts, but were they 700 specific, separate cases? Yes, it is one of the more commonly mentioned problems with the new 4Runner"

    I wasn't trying to suggest that they were all specific cases, my point was that looking at a lot of different vehicle boards here on Edmunds that there is a much higher discussion level on the sulfur problem compared with discussions on other repair type issues. If you add up all of the discussions on other boards per the sulfur issue it seems to be evident that it is a widespread problem.

    "**A TSB is usually issued for smaller issues or for a smaller number of affected vehicles."

    TSB's are issued for both big and small issues, and for smaller OR larger amounts of affected vehicles - but typically it takes a pretty widespread problem to engage a repair-related TSB. Recalls, on the other hand, are most always related to safety issues, regardless of the number of affected vehicles.

    "**Of course, the owner must complain if they have an issue with the sulfur 'odor.' Toyota has no idea which vehicles are affected..."

    My point here was that Toyota is STILL using the SAME parts that no doubt are causing the sulfur issue. Why is this?? I don't understand why they would just not implement the new parts in current production runs so that future buyers will NOT have to deal with the hassles associated with this problem. My guess is that Toyota is looking at $$$ savings as the priority rather than customer satisfaction - OR, they would make sure that NO ONE had this problem in the future. I find this hard to believe, especially when the sulfur issue has undoubtedly hurt sales and put a tarnished image on the '03/'04 4Runner's. I guess it's cheaper to make the repairs compared to the amount of profit that is lost due to aggravated, unhappy or lost customers.

    "**Sorry to say "it's better late than never," but even Toyota can make mistakes..."

    By "mistakes" do you mean per the original manufacture of the defective parts, or that they waited so long to implement the TSB? If the latter, you'd think Toyota would have learned after getting their hands burned when they skirted the infamous sludge issue.

    It's all about money... Toyota ignored this issue for a long time probably figuring it would be cheaper to make the repairs on a "when complained about" basis rather than implement a solution in production a long time ago. But it looks like it came back to slap them in the face, and someone at Toyota finally woke up to face the facts. Obviously other manufacturer's pull the same crap, it's not just Toyota.

    I guess I'll never understand why these companies want to alienate and tick off so many customers before they decide to get off their arses and provide a solution to these types of issues. Baffling to say the least.
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    alfster1alfster1 Member Posts: 273
    **I wasn't trying to suggest that they were all specific cases, etc.....**

    --Point Taken.

    **My point here was that Toyota is STILL using the SAME parts that no doubt are causing the sulfur issue"

    --I agree with you. Toyota should have corrected this problem as soon as they realized it. I am sure that costs were (and are) a factor. All I can say now is at least the issuance of the TSB is a first step towards correction of this problem at this time. If a full production 'fix' is implemented, then Toyota can be said to be on the road to making full amends.--

    **By "mistakes" do you mean per the original manufacture of the defective parts, or that they waited so long to implement the TSB?**

    --I suppose I meant to place more emphasis on the latter. Toyota should have responded very quickly to early complaints of the sulfur problem instead of waiting. Toyota should have learned from the prior sludge issue, but apparently they did not.

    Considering this is a redesigned 4Runner, there are bound to be a certain number of errors in the newly finished product. However, I can't seem to fathom how apparently none of the Toyota test vehicles would have been afflicted with the sulfur problem. I would have imagined that this problem would stick out like a sore thumb.

    It is "all about the money" unfortunately, even for a respected brand such as Toyota. Mercedes Benz is also lauded for their high quality, well made cars of yore. Unfortunately, even MB has suffered many quality issues over the recent year. I also own an E500 Sport with many little issues that leave me wondering how a company can charge so much for a vehicle that is not rock solid. I am much happier with my 4Runner overall.--
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    driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    manufacturer should have corrected EVERY defect or problem (there's a difference) in EVERY model of car that they have - why don't they do the right thing immediately? Because they don't have to, that's why.

    I deal with lemon law litigation for a living. Manufacturers, every one of them, fight tooth and nail before settling a case. They do this because they know the average American is impatient and will sell, trade, wreck, or repo a problematic vehicle, and they won't have to come up with ANY money in about 75% of their cases if they just put you off for a while.

    I don't fault Toyota they're actually one of the better manufacturers - ironically, it's the manufacturers that produce the worst junk that fight the hardest - strange, but true....
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    toyboxxtoyboxx Member Posts: 150
    The problem with the cat converters is that they are using different a material in them now that is safer for their workers to handle and for the environment. So toatally going back to the old materials wouldn't be a good idea if only a small minority of vehicles are affected. If the consumer complains they put on a cat with the old material in it and it is over for the affected person. It did take them a while but I believe this is the best way to fix the problem while still limiting the exposure to people and environment to a more hazerdous material.
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    tloke1tloke1 Member Posts: 185
    "However, I can't seem to fathom how apparently none of the Toyota test vehicles would have been afflicted with the sulfur problem. I would have imagined that this problem would stick out like a sore thumb..."

    Noticeable problems like this have always bothered me as I also cannot understand why they are not discovered during testing. I realize that manufacturers are not going to catch every little thing, that's rather obvious. But something like the sulfur issue is indeed baffling. For the all-new 4Runner model I would guess that Toyota had at least several hundred test "mules" out there in the real world. These vehicles would have put on thousands and thousands of miles in the deserts, in the mountain and on the streets. One would think that at least a few of the vehicles would have exhibited this symptom. Or, maybe the problem did arise and Toyota decided it would cost to much to re-engineer the parts vs the estimated number of complaints they might have expected to get.

    Another classic example of "how did this get by?" is the new Armada and the "resonating roof" issue. On many vehicles the vibrating sound waves are so bad people cannot drive the vehicles. Looks like Nissan cut a few corners and manufactured extra-thin roofs without strong enough bracing. Their solution? A few extra large tubes of glue squeezed on and around the roof cross supports, which does not seem to completely solve the problem for a lot of owners. The entire roofliner must be removed, and in many cases are damaged in the process.

    Amazingly, Nissan is STILL producing Armada's with the same exact faulty design. One has got to ask, HOW in the world did something like this not get noticed during the road testing phase? And what morons at Nissan are preventing a solution from being implemented as a running change? As word has spread many sales have been lost and the Armada reputation is getting a black eye.

    I think manufacturer's need to "wake up" concerning situations like these. With the power and expanse of the internet it's a whole new world out there for consumers to share both their good and bad vehicle experiences. Negativity towards a given model or about its problems spreads like wildfire.
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    bed33bed33 Member Posts: 3
    I posted 685 below and offer this follow up.
    Shortly after posting I called Toyota and gave them the info. They
    contacted my local dealer. I got a call back from them to set up a service call. I brought it in yesterday and they replaced both catalytic converters per the TSB and said I should be good to go.
    However, driving it home the VSC TRAC and VSC OFF lights came on and stayed on. I brought it in this morning and they referenced another service bulletin and showed me the procedure. It was a simple recalibration using a hand held unit. They took it right away and I was out of there in about 15 minutes. I drove it in to work about 20 miles and did not see the lights come back on.
    I let them know the aggravation and inconvenience these issue have caused however to their credit they have very good customer service.
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    lukeglukeg Member Posts: 32
    At what number did you call Toyota?
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    4rnr4rnr Member Posts: 25
    The TSB for the 2UZ-FE engine(V8 powered 4 Runner) has just been released the TSB# is EG020-04. The repair procedure is identical to the V6(which was posted a couple of weeks ago).
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    gcmellogcmello Member Posts: 17
    I'd like to take my 2003 V-8 Sport Edition to the dealership and have the repairs done for the sulfur smell, but I've not been able to find the actual TSB EG020-04 to print out and show to the service manager. I do have a printout for TSB #EG015-04 for the V-6. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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    roguewarriorroguewarrior Member Posts: 1
    Hi I just did a little research on this problem and have learned that 60 complaints have been submitted to the NHTSA for this sulphur smell. What everyone is focusing on is the smell of rotten egg however disgusting and potentially dangerous that is, it is not what will KILL. The Carbon monoxide(CO)is the real danger because it is odorless and deadly it is also getting into the car by the same means as the obvious egg smell. I was so concerned that I contacted a environmental company who came for a ride along in my 2003 sr5 4runner. This ride proved to me that(CO)is indeed entering the cabin and alarmed the tech who came along with a (CO)tester. At one point he yelled "Close the F@#%@%& rear window". I saw the readings go off the charts depending on the configuration of the windows, with the rear window open being the worst. I did not pay for this test as they were being kind enough to just see if I had any (CO)entering the cabin. This was enough for me! I have since contacted Toyota customer service and I am waiting to hear from the regional rep from FL. Another option for people to find out on their own is to go to the home depot and buy a (CO) tester. This can be plugged into the 110 outlet in the glove box. I did and I do not drive with the rear window down at all any longer. This is a serious problem that may be corrected by changing the location of the tail pipe to vent to the side of the vehicle. I am going to complain to the NHTSA with this post and see if this will get the people who are supposed to protect us "to wake up." If someone else could do a similar test in their state we could have more ammunition to fight Toyota. I have found out that the EPA company would do a complete test with report and all for around $340.00. I am going to see if the service rep would do this but I doubt it. If anyone has the extra money that they could afford to use PLEASE DO IT! I originally posted on a 4 X 4 site I also made a complaint to http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsear- ch.cfm the # is 10078432 I have been contacted by the Rep today and he is currently researching. I think I got his attention for a different reason (CO).
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    alfster1alfster1 Member Posts: 273
    Many 03-04 4Runner owners, including myself, drive with the rear cargo window open without experiencing any sulfur or apparently high levels of CO entering the cabin. The longest that I have driven with this window open is 1.5 hours, under varying speeds. I have used a CO tester, but I am not how accurate it is since it was made for home use and is not a professional tester.

    Apparently, the exhaust issue only affects some 4Runners, either with or without the rear cargo window being opened, which is perplexing.
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    4rnr4rnr Member Posts: 25
    Here's the V8 TSB. I do hope this helps you out. 4rnr

    http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachment.php?s=124f3cec65e55127ce- 630d89cb99007e&postid=31585
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    lukeglukeg Member Posts: 32
    I have 04 4runner v8 Sport. Today Toyota dealership fixed the smell problem. They have changed the catalyst and reprogramed the computer. The smell is gone. I don't drive with rear window down, but smell still was entereing the cabin from time to time. Also I am tired of hearing on the street on the red light that my truck stinks like $***. No more bad stink and I can drive with side windows open. Schedule this repair. It takes few days to get parts in.
    I still have problem with:
    - sit being loose
    - vibration with RPM between 1800-2000
    - vibrating breaks.
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    driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    ANYONE would ever drive with the rear window down - makes no sense - guaranteed to suck in your exhaust and everyone else's.

    Sitting parked with all the windows down, sure - lowering the rear window to use the rear cargo area when loading, sure.

    I can't believe anyone with any education would think that you could drive with your rear window down on any vehicle with a movable rear window and NOT get exhaust sucked into the vehicle - sheesh...
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    tloke1tloke1 Member Posts: 185
    "...ANYONE would ever drive with the rear window down - makes no sense - guaranteed to suck in your exhaust and everyone else's."

    There can be exceptions, like when hauling a long piece of lumber or other item that needs to stick out through the back window. I did that a lot of times when I owned an Explorer. I did close the window as much as possible and tied it down against the lumber, but I never did have a problem with exhaust getting in since Explorers have not had the sulfur issue.
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    sunking9sunking9 Member Posts: 6
    After 9 months of Toyota denying that my 2003 Limited V6 4Runner was letting noxious fumes into the cabin, I think my problem has been solved. But I'm not sure what solved it.

    I started the Lemon Law procedures in Florida which includes allowing Toyota up to 10 days to fix the problem. After one week, the dealer called to say that they had thoroughly checked the vehicle but could still could not reproduce the problem.

    I figured I would have go all the way through the Lemon Law hearing.

    But since getting the car back last month, I have NOT smelled any of the fumes entering the cabin with the vents on recirculate.

    I'm not sure if Toyota fixed it and doesn't want to own up to it, or what ever was leaking sealed itself. I have no idea what fixed it, I'm just glad the situation has been corrected.

    I was considering trading the vehicle and taking an $8000 loss. My 4Runner was delivered 9 months ago and has about 13500 miles on it and I am just now starting to enjoy owning it.
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    fl4runnerfl4runner Member Posts: 14
    Just because you don't smell a rotten egg odor or anything else doesn't mean you are ok. Carbon monoxide is odorless and very dangerous. The fact that some people can smell exhaust in their 4runners is alarming to me (with all windows up and air on recirculate). It's not a big deal to me that my truck's exhaust stinks. If the fact that it stinks indicates a more serious problem that will result in reliability issues in the future then I will want to fix it now. But the immediate problem is one of safety.

    Some may not smell exhaust in the cabin because their nose is not as sensitive as others. Maybe their truck does not emit the sulfur due to catalytic converter particulars, cleaner gas, tighter gaskets around the windows (so less gas gets in), etc. But the fact is that all 4runners are built pretty much the same (with minor manufacturing variance). This is a systemic problem, catbon monoxide getting into the cabin. All 4runner owners should be concerned.

    I originally taped up my vents to stop the exhaust from getting into my 4runner. That reduced a lot of it but did not completely eliminate it. Sometimes I still get the smell. I will soon divert the tailpipe to the side in hopes that it will help to eliminate much of the exhaust that gets trapped behind the truck in the vacuum created as the "box on wheels" travels at higher speeds. Have you ever drafted behind another vehicle before? Notice how you need less throtle to keep up and how the wind resistance decreases? It's the vacuum created by the vehicle in front of you. That vacuum sucks outside air into the cabin along the little spaces between rubber mouldings and glass, tail light assemblies, etc.

    I feel that the 4runner is a drafty truck, probably because of the roll down window and other non-airtight fixtures. With it's boxy shape it creates the vacuum that brings outside air into the cabin. The outside air right behind the truck is full of exhause because that is where the tailpipe is. People notice it because our 4runner has more rotten egg smell than the average vehicle. All these factors come together to cause the smell which created this forum.

    My concern is to eliminate the carbon monoxide that I know is present in my vehicle. Carbon monoxide poisoning can cause you to pass out at the wheel and crash. It also has a cumulative effect that can cause health effects and death later on in life. I care about my quality of life enough to try and fix my problem.
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    toyboxxtoyboxx Member Posts: 150
    I would agree with all of this if there were good CO test done inside the truck and then compared to some other vehicles. Until then all I can say is that I NEVER get a smell inside my truck with the rear window up. With the rear window down I rarely get a smell and even that does not smell like sulfur, it smells like exhaust.

    I honestly would like to see someone who has these complaints/concerns do a good and comparative test.
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    md4runnermanmd4runnerman Member Posts: 72
    As soon as I got out on the road after being at the Toyota service dept., I noticed that the "VSC Trac" and "VSC Off" warning lights were lit and stayed lit. I was hoping it would go away so I drove home, but since it was still lit I called the Toyota service dept. and alerted them.. They said I should bring it in tomorrow for them to look at. Has anyone else had this happen after going in for the exhaust fix under that new TSB?
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    gcmellogcmello Member Posts: 17
    Thanks for the TSB. I'd been away on vacation until today and hadn't had a chance to thank you earlier. I've had the work done--with a lot of hassle from the dealership (Newport RI). I won't bore you with the details.
    I hope I won't experience any more sulfur fumes from my 2003 V-8 Sport.

    Thanks again,
    Gerry
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