Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
So, I figured, I wouldn't haggle my sales guy with Subaru too much b/c I felt like he deserved to get some commission. At a certain point, haggling over an extra $100-$250 is somewhat unnecessary if you're trying to squeeze every little cent you can. At some point, it is like when you pay tips to your waiter/waitress. I felt like the guy deserved some kind of commission out of it, so I didn't push the issue. I could've easily gotten it to $900 below invoice but I got some of that money back by getting a lower price on the protection package, and I'll only have to pay less than $500 for 6-month car insurance and I'm 23 and a male.
I'm looking at a 2012 forester Touring up here in Canada. invoice for us is: 28067.00. The dealers here are loath to go below msrp, and even when you go in with invoice, they are saying they "have to make something". How do you get below invoice pricing? We have to pay to get the invoice details and also lists of rebate programs and such. The company I do that through has prenegotiated rates which are invoice plus 3 %. Because Subies are in demand up here, it's hard to get them to budge on prices at all. Other than simply asking for below invoice, any strategies for getting under it? How do you then figure on the sales guy's commission? I mean they should make something to be fair.
We don't have the options here for 'winter packages and such' they come with that installed for Canada. So there aren't many options other than the touring, or limited package for example.
I appreciate your ideas and strategies for getting a good deal.
thanks,
cdndriver
1. No new features from 2011 model. Due to the tsnumais in Japan, they stopped manufacturing 2011 Foresters and thus, the 2012 model is basically the same as the 2011. You can use the arguement that there are no new features in the 2012 model as a way to drop the price down a little bit.
2. The Forester does have an outdated transmission system. I didn't use this in my arguements but this is a slight issue with the Forester. I'm sure it is also the case with the Touring model although don't quote me on it.
3. Go to Truecar.com, it is a site where you can get car quotes from dealerships in your area, and those quotes are usually well below invoice. You take that quote to those specific dealerships, and they have to match the quote. Also, you can shop around for dealerships near your area and ask if they are willing to come close or match the quote. I'm not sure if this works in Canada, so if not, then that sucks. But, this would be a good gauge for you to determine what type of price you would want to pay if it is available for you to use in Canada.
The problem is that Subaru doesn't have any discounts or rebates or manufacturer-to-dealer discounts that a consumer can take advantage of with Nissan or Toyota or other dealers. If you can afford 0% APR and pay the car off sooner, that is another option to consider b/c I believe that Subaru just came out with the option of doing 0% APR according to what my salesperson said.
Good luck with it and hopefully you can get it below invoice. Dealerships still make money even if you go below invoice, just depends how much you want to go.
Interest rates for Subs are 2.9, 3.9,4.9 for leasing depending on the term, 2 years, 3, 4, respectively. They sell well here, and the banks aren't in the same situation as there, so they just don't move much on interest here, at least not for 2012 models.
I'll see if truecar works up here. and what they offer.
I'll let you know what happens. I've got two dealers I can try.
Good luck!
-John
I mighta f'ed up on the protection package but since I live in Illinois and we can have harsh winters, it was a necessary evil b/c I'm not going to keep up with spraying that rust stuff every year.
The "mid-west" and east can be brutal on cars. I remember looking at several sales of late '90s Outback wagons a few years ago when I lost my '96 and was considering replacing it with a similar model/year. Every one of them had all sorts of surface rust in the engine bay (so what does that say about the rest of the car?)!
These were cars with 100-120K miles. Mine had 220,000 at the time, and there wasn't a hint of rust anywhere on it.
The annual spraying of "rust proofing" is another service like the "protection package". Paraffin wax sprays and bituminous undercoatings served a purpose decades ago when car bodies were made of plain steel which was bare inside the door and body panels, and the undercarriage and wheel wells were only painted.
However now bodies are made of galvanized steel dipped in primers, with electrostatic paint that reaches every side and crevice. Undercarriages and fender wells receive tough elastomeric coatings, and fender wells have plastic liners to protect against stones.
Spraying of "rust proofing" on modern cars makes the owner feel good but does nothing for the car as there is no bare metal left for it to benefit.
The naturally-aspirated (non-turbo) engines up to 2011 were of an open cylinder deck design that stressed the head gaskets. The problem peaked in 2003, was band-aided with improved gaskets and the required addition of a sealant to fresh coolant every 30,000 miles. That almost ended the occurrence of head gasket leaks in recent years.
After the warranty was up, Subaru often paid part of the cost of head gasket repairs, particularly for an original owner who had the car serviced and repaired at a dealer.
Your second head gasket failure within a year was likely due to a poor repair of the first head gasket failure. It was probably not done by a dealer.
The first time, the coolant could have gone low enough to cause overheating, which warped the heads. If the heads were not removed, checked and milled flat, the warpage would cause the new head gaskets to leak soon.
Evidently enough coolant was lost the second time that severe overheating happened again and cracked a head.
Forester owners must use the Subaru Conditioner (sealant), change coolant every 30K, and watch for signs of leaks such as low coolant, bubbles in the coolant, or moisture around the heads. Coolant must not be allowed to go low and cause destructive overheating.
The design of the engine was completely changed in 2011 so that head gaskets are not stressed and leaks cannot occur for the same reason as before.
$24,796. Doc Fee $150. Wa State License fee $211.50. And the BIG ONE; Wa State Sales Tax = $2,430.01!!!
I had a trade in, but I called a family member during the middle of the deal, and they really, really, wanted my '08 Civic LX. It had 93,000 miles already, but was in absolute tip-top condition. Super little car. Dealer was offering KBB. I sold to the family for less, on payments, with a handshake (phoneshake?), and ate the $600 sales tax savings the trade would have brought.
So I certainly didn't steal it, and the State of Washington will still claim the end is near, but I sure as heck contributed my part.
I got a couple books I read in the bathroom about day hiking around here. Now I can get off the pot and get to the trailhead. Wouldn't do that with the Civic, sprung too tight, didn't want to ruin it anyway. Maybe when I was younger. We used to take our full size domestics on logging roads all the time, way up into the hills, but that was 30-35 years ago!
That's the only thing you can use. No rebates, no manufacturer to dealer discount for Foresters, so you gotta get creative. The Foresters come standard with an option package that increases the price like $500 more than you see in the quotes. My salesperson gave me the flexibility of basically discounting the options that I didn't care for on my car, even though those options would still be on my car no matter what. Using that, I got it discounted another $275. Not sure if your salesperson will be willing to do that but give it a shot.
Depending on the market, the local dealer(s) might just tell you to take a hike, but that seems unlikely in an area like North Carolina where a myriad of dealerships are within a day's drive in (nearly) any direction.
Car: 2012 Forester 2.5x Premium w/ AWP
Color: Sage Green
Options: All weather floor mats, Auto-dimming mirror w/ compass, trunk and side cargo nets, wheel locks, cargo tray, splash guards, and bumper cover.
Dealer: Beechmont Subaru
New Car Price: $23,500 (took Subaru's 36 month 0% loan)
Trade-in: $1000
Other: $150 Doc Fee + ~$60 Tags/Licensing + tax (6.5%)
Highly recommend this dealer. We called and told them what we wanted to pay for the premium with AWP, but explained that we didn't want to pay for any of the dealer's extras. They agreed to our price and didn't charge us for any of the options. On top of that, they offered us $1000 for our old car. We went down that day and were in and out of the dealer in an hour.
- All-Weather Package (Heated Front Seats, Windshield Wiper De-Icer, Heated Side Mirrors)
- Aero Cross Bars
- Rear Bumper Cover
- Luggage Compartment Cover
- Splash Guard Kit
- Floor Mats, All Weather
- Auto Dim Mirror/Compass w/Homelink
Does that seem like a reasonable price? We don't need to get the best deal ever, but don't want to pay hundreds more than we should. The dealer seems unwilling to come down further. By way of comparison, Truecar.com says $23,069 is the best deal in our area for the Premium with all-weather package (that's the only one of these extras we're really interested in). The dealer says they could special-order one with only the all-weather package and match that price, but it could take 10+ weeks to deliver.
Just an update. Had the car for a few days now and love it. It has plenty of power, the audio is fine, and 4 gear auto is super smooth. I'm was also really surprise at how quite it is. A few issues though. For the extra money I would consider the limited for the radio alone. Audio is fine, but the display is the worst. The limited has extra functionality with bluetooth. Also, car has some sounds/rattles and doors sound light and hallow. Nothing that really bothers me though. Overall, love it.
That's not true. I just got my 2012 Forester X Touring at 1.9%/63 month. I ordered it at the end of November an picked it up on December 30.
MSRP $29,481 (rear bumper cover, arch molding kit, mirror with home link & compass): paid $600 under invoice + got $890 over Chase's buyout price on my leased 2009 Forester X ("traded" to the dealer 1 month before lease end) + "Subaru Severe Weather Companion" kit.
When the manager went over everything he asked if I was offered the financing and said the sales guy was wrong that it could be up to 5 years
I used Capitalone.com anyway as good a rate if excellent credit
1. Newer cars get lower fuel mileage initially b/c the car has to be worn in a little for the optimal mileage to take place.
2. Colder weather=worse fuel mileage
I've been getting 19 mpg in the cold weather in the 2012 Forester. Also, I think it has a smaller fuel tank than the 16.9 gallons that the manual tells you, so you're not wasting as much gas, I paid around $44-$45 at 3.62 and my tank was over 3/4 empty.
3. Yea, the placement of the gas tank opener is odd to me too but maybe you pulled it up a little too hard? Just a guess? But yea, that's not good. So, how are you opening the fuel tank now?
Not everything is going to be perfect with the car unfortunately, and that goes for any car.
You'll have to balance how much your willing to lose on the actual price of the sale with the added cost of keeping each month you do so. In other words, if you financed it and have full coverage insurance, how much are those costing you each month? If you ask $24,000 and somebody comes along and offers $23,800 (or even $23,500) after several weeks with no hits, how much is that extra few hundred worth to you versus the chance you won't get another hit for a month or two?
That, and you know the first question all perspective buyers will ask is, "so, why are you selling it?" Keep it simple; coming out with "I don't like it" isn't going to put you into a good selling position!
You mileage will improve as it warms up, and then again as it breaks in. I just took a road trip to PA and recorded about 4mpg less than a similar trip in warm weather last year.
Another thing - gas costs are a small % of overall ownership costs. The big one? Depreciation. And what holds its value well? The Forester.
A Fusion Hybrid (I picked an efficient sedan) would save you roughly $900 per year, but you'll probably lose $2000 in trading in a brand new car, so that eats up 2 years' worth of gas savings.
Just keep it, see if mpg improves. By a shelf'/organizer for the tall cargo area. Foresters really hold their value well, it wins all sorts of residual awards.
Gas is cheap.
Trading in a brand new car for another brand new car? Very expensive.
Marine Blue Pear 2012 Forester 2.5X Premium, Automatic Transmission, PZEV w/ AWP, auto-dimming mirror w/ compass, bumper cover and luggage compartment cover.
$24,698 before taxes and tags ($2,166) = out the door at $26,864
I was a bit disappointed at this price. Truecar.com did not seem to have any prices listed in my area, and after shopping around through email and calls, this was the best I could do.
Work backwards, you want to buy the car at $1000-$1500 BELOW Invoice.
At this level your getting a good deal.
Work with the Fleet or Internet Sales Manager in several dealerships (3-5), over the phone or better yet with E-Mail. I would not step into a dealership until you've made the deal.
- Automatic, All Weather Package, Cargo Tray, Bumper Cover, Cargo Net
I'm paying too much arn't I? I didn;t take delivery of the car yet, is there anything I can do?
How the heck did you get $1,300 below invoice? Was it an end of year closeout, did you have a trade?
It looks like you are in NJ, so check out Stohlman Subaru in Tysons (VA) - email or talk to sales manager directly. They are the highest volume dealer on East Coast from MD to FL. If you get the price you want, you can order yours with the options you need. I did just that and got mine at $600 below invoice. Worth the drive.
I guarantee you I paid more for our '09 than you did...
Thanks!
She has decided on a new 2012 Forester 2.5X Auto Premium.
I looked on Edmunds.com to get an idea of invoice price vs. MSRP. Edmunds also has a "True Market Value" that gives you an idea about what the vehicle is selling for in your area.
With Destination Fee, Edmunds gave me the following:
Invoice.........................$23,644
MSRP ...........................$25,070
"True Market Value"........$23,481
I've never seen Edmunds give a "True Market Value" price that is lower than invoice. Are Foresters really selling at, or below, invoice?
What should I be shooting for?
My MIL is very worried about money, so I want to strike the best deal I can for her. I plan to do it entirely through email.
I greatly appreciate input on this.
Thanks,
Jim
I would have to sell my soul to get a below invoice (or even near invoice) deal in my local area even now, but I did purchase my 2010 Forester in Sept 2009 for $300 under invoice in Seattle.
As an aside, I find it humorous that after a dealer rakes you over the coals, they insist you mark all 10s on the dealer survey or they "fail". Sorry guys, you will get the rating you deserve. If I had a "10" experience, you'd get it. Problems with my transaction - I confirmed with the salesman THREE times by phone that they had or were getting in the next day or so the ad model in Ice Silver. Once I got there, the sales manager tried to sell me a blue one, then a Silver Limited on their lot. Then he "found" one at another dealer and wanted to charge me $23,999 for the same car they were advertising for $23,711. I baulked and he conceded $100. Like I mentioned I was sicker than a dog, so I took it. THEN, when we went to pick it up the next day, the salesman had given one of our keys to someone else!!! It took over a week to get our key. Now, does that sound like an "all 10s" transaction to you???
But back to pricing. Here is a link to their current ad. http://www.dickhannahsubaru.com/files/2012/03/AD_CURRENT_SUBARU.pdf
Now, that link is updated weekly, but as of today, they still have my MSRP on ad, but now the price has dropped to $23,294 - almost $1375 under invoice!!!
Here is the skinny on the deal I negotiated. I'm in area code 68114.
2012 Subaru Forester 2.5x Premium, Auto, All Weather Package, Obsidian Black Pearl
Luggage Compartment Cover
Auto Dimming Mirror/Compass
Exhaust Tips
Body Side Molding
Rear Bumper Cover
Floor Mats
Sticker = $26,175
Negotiated Price = $23,404
42 Month/ 12,000 Mile Lease = $255.33 per month.
First Month Down
Did I do ok? Or did they see me coming?
I was looking how much I could expect for my 2002 Forester S, 71K, for my zip at the kbb.com website, either trade-in, or sell to a co-worker. For one in "Good" condition, its coming up as 7,537 for trade in. I am having a hard time believing this. Any insight?
For a Forester of that year and mileage, I don't think you should expect more than 7500 to 8500 private party.
Obviously this is a major fixer upper but I do not even know what is realistic price for a fixer upper. 500? 750? 1000? I live in MT where Subarus are revered. A close friend just sold within 4 hours of posting on craigslist a 1997 outback with 220,000, that was leaking oil and did not run for 1000. Granted, it was leather seats, moonroof, etc where mine is more of the base model. Was thinking of posting my forester for 1000.00 OBO but wanted some experienced feedback as to what is a realistic sale price. Thanks for any and all advice :-)
If the struts are gone or it has other suspension or CV joint issues, go down from there, but if it runs, is warm, and the AWD works, you shouldn't take less than a grand.