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Nissan Frontier Crew Cab VS Ford Explorer Sport Trac
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Comments
There was also a new crew cab on a stand. It was a light blue SC (super charged), with all the options. I'm a Ford fan myself, but I admit this new truck looked really nice in person. You can see it at www.freshalloy.com.
I never doubted the towing capacity of the ford. That was not the point of my long winded post above. MY POINT was that in almost every case a [non-permissible content removed]/euro engines of the same displacent will make more hp and torque than its "Big 3" competition.
Calling the supercharger a band aid is a bit of a strech. WHY? because Nissan knows they have a bulletproof 3.3L engine. This is the same engine(.3L larger) that was in older maximas(mine) and old pathfinders. THEY ARE TOUGH! The 200ft-lbs of torque is peaked at 2800rpm. 90%(180) is available at 1500. That means nail the gas and she jumps off the line. That being said it DOES fall short on top end...NO DOUBT! So in comes the supercharger. The result is 40 more hp and 40 more ft-lbs of torque. Are thousand of 3.3L pathfinder owners struggling to maintain 75 on the highway? NO..of course not. Now you have 3 choices. 4cyl....slow but economy. 6cly...better...only moderate power. 6cly sc....pretty quick.
Oh...and who was the clown(for lack of a better term) who said a "a v6 camaro was faster than a s2000 because of torque"? True..the v6 camaro does have more torque...but its not even close to being as fast as a s2000(this isn't a my car is better than yours type of thing) Look in the back of the newer Motortrends....the s2000 is rated 0-60 in around 5.2 seconds. The V8...NOT V6 does it in around 5.3. So if the 8 does it in 5.3 than the v6 falling some 120hp less surley is much slower. yes....the s2000 has very little torque(and that matters around town...for just crusing) but its 9000rpm redline and tiny gears send it flying. In fact...the s2000 barely squeaks its tires off the line...but it still gets to 60 in way under 6 when driven properly.
Oh well...another fun post,
I like when you guys pick my brain
cya,
Mike
The "3 choices" are most likely for next years frontier/xterra. They may phase out the 4cyl alltogether..but I doubt it.
The pathfinder on the other hand has a wonderfull 3.5L VQ(think of a big maxima engine). 240hp/268ft-lbs. 250hp when teamed up to the 5sp(different tuning)
Again Ford 4L v6 musters only 210hp The 5L v8...you get 5 more hp. Yea...the 5L makes 288ft-lbs but thats only 20 more than the nissan 3.5L. Amazing stats....
Bottom line: Comparing nissan to ford engines is like apples to rotten oranges. I got an apple on my dashboard.
the Nissan CC was actually designed by some ford people. He said that it liked the Ford Sport Trace better. The engine was better.
However, I parked my CC next to the explorer Trac.
I think that some people would like either one.
I like the roof rack on my CC. But some people may not. THe explorer has more interior options
as well. Something I would not really care about much after having some techno problems with options.
But I saw phiscally defects on the explorer. The lines were not as sharpe as with the Nissan.
I think that Ford service over all is better than nissan. The mechanic siad that the saw the frontier very little. But ford dealers have been better at customer satisfaction in my experience. There are always bad ones.
If I had money and a big enough garage, I think that F150/F350 Crew cabs are the best buy.
But for the yuppy life style, the Nissan Crew Cab is the best for me, I would buy Toyota 2nd, Ford Trac and then Dodge.
Does Ford sell similar engine upgrades which allow the vehicle to retain its warranty?
better check with Nissan service before you do that, I have never seen an internal modification that did not alter the factory warranty, even if done by a Nissan tech, if your source is a nissan
dealer, get that in writing before you do it! Let us know if you do, I have the same engine and was thinking about putting a K&N filter in it, but anything more, I dunno, and I am pretty happy with the performance now.
The 4.0 SOHC V6 is a fantastic engine and is proven over the years in the ever popular Explorer. It took Nissan how many years to actually catch up with Ford in terms of HP/Torque? Do you know how much .5 liters is in terms of size? You are comparing Nissan top of the line engine to Fords mid-range engine also that is available in the Explorer. Ever heard of a V8?
Like some people have mentioned before, the 200 lb-ft torque is more than adequate for them. Heck if you wanted torque, why not go for the S-10 4.3? People have different needs/priorities, not everyone needs to haul cinder blocks or tow boats 90% of the time you know. Also, can anyone provide torque figures for both the Nissan 3.3 and Ford 4.0?
When you say 0.5 liters, that's not a lot, but nonetheless a bigger engine should produce better numbers, right? As for V8's, how 'bout the Tundra's 4.7L or Chrysler's V8? BTW, Nissan's planning to dump a V8 (Q45 I think) their truck lineup very soon.
I appologize my point wasn't clear(I ramble too much. Like I said it's not all about Hp and Torque although it certainly helps but it's not the only factor. Understand I didn't mean to bash Ford, in fact I originally was shopping a Ford F-250 Crew Cab. My reason for not getting it was that it would be at least five years old before I got the boat I plan on getting. Since, I live in a very congested area a thought it would be smart to get a smaller truck. But, I wanted to be able tow my demo. I didn't buy this truck to tow all the time maybe once or twice a month. I have towed the same trailer (boat) loaded the same, with Ford Sport Trac, Nissan C.C., Toyota Tacoma and S-10.
They all towed the same rig fine, especially the s-10 ( I previously owned one with two transmissions in 36k mi.), but I wanted a crew cab ( I tested all of them to be fair). True the sport trac has a longer wheelbase and only a 100lbs. more towing capacity, but I can tell you this the Ford did sag (not alot like an explorer)but it did, when the trailer was hoked up as did the S-10. My point is that the Sport Trac has the same suspension as the regular exporer, which might explain Ford's reason to produce a composite bed. BTW, the towing cap numbers are a wash if you compare the max. payload! Ford's Ranger would even make a better tow vehicle over a sport trac merely, by design. It's too bad they didn't use the Ranger platform for the sport trac, it sure would make it alot easier to turn the Nissan in for the F-250.
Try this, go to a ford dealer act like your serious about buying a sport trac, then take it out for the weekend. Hook up to a 4000lb boat and trailer back it down a boat ramp at low tide. After a the boat hits the water, put the suv (I'm sorry the truck)in gear fist,low or even low 4-wd whatever you want then rev that pretty little 4.0L upwards around say...the 4000 mark so you can you beloved torque...then after you do that, do the same with the nissan (I did and seriously the Nissan crawls just like my '94 chevy 4.3L). This should give an indication of what everybody has been saying to you and also shuld show you what kind of abuse you would have to put that sport trac through every time you wanted to use your boat. If I'm not mistaken you own a ranger now and tow with it? If it's over 2500lbs you'll be disappointed, not becuase it's a ford but because it's a SUV not a true pickup! The towing ability between the trucks is noticable and those of you that tow, whether it be campers, utility, or boats, know what I'm talking about.....it helps to get that torque at a low rpm's.
I can tell that you haven't driven or towed with either vehicle, right? Go out and tow(feel) the differnce. Compare the two trucks to your Ranger if you want, my bet is since you are a Ford fan you'll wait for a 4 door Ranger. First, you'll notice a differnce at the stop light, stop sign and at the boat ramp. Second, you won't feel the C.C. swaying at highway speeds as you will with the Sport-Trac (this is common with SUVs). I tested all the trucks the same four same people(650lbs) full tanks of fuel and about 250lbs of gear. With this load and the 3500lb. boat hooked up you can see the immediate difference in the suspension of the sport-trac, it sagged bad! This is why it swayed at highway speeds, the suspension just isn't designed like a pickup's. Get off the straight torque numbers already, your point is mute if you compare your ranger w/3.0L(192 lbs. of torque and 5600lbs of towing cap.)vs. the sport-trac. My point here is the drivetrain plays a huge role in making up for torque if geared right. As for your 5sp Auto question, I really don't know what your point is, but I could ask you "What's Ford's std. warranty on that 5sp tranny or the whole drivetrain for that matter?". Maybe your point is that it took Ford 5 gears to do what the other manufactures did in 4 gears!(more gears + more parts= more problems)
Just in case you were wondering all the trucks I drove did great in the braking dept.(probably due to ABS and the trailer having brakes) The tongue weight on the trailer is 375lbs. and the trailer is a tandem axle.
The dealers where I live sell their sport tracs so quickly that they wouldn't mess around with letting someone test drive it for a weekend.
First I should comment that any dealership that thinks that either, they are too busy or that their hybrid vehicle doesn't warant the concerns of a potential customer because they are selling fast, would never see a dollar from me! For that I would just shop online.
To answer your question, it was a Ford dealership here on the west coast of Fla, that really wanted to sell me the vehicle. So they let me have it for the afternoon, 'cause they knew what my concerns were. But you are right, they do move fast, this dealership sold all seven that he got that week within 9 days! My salesman knew what I wanted so he helped me the best he could. By the way my salesman was curious too, but not surprised when I told him my results.
That's because the only book you have is a Ford brochure! It look's like you copied it well.
Just to let you know I've read the brochure too! But, I don't go by what marketers say especially when they are focussed on the needs of buyers shopping for SUV's not trucks. But that was never my point, it was which (of these two) makes a better tow vehicle. It's funny that all you do is mention that Hp & Torque over and over in every one of your responses, but never your experience with either vehicle. This is ok, because I just wanted to let those that are deciding between the two what my EXPERIENCE was and to state that a truck always tows/pulls or hauls better than a SUV in its class. If I'm not mistaken, that same 'wonderful 4.0L' is in your Ranger right?What's it's HP rating? 160? If so that's an engine needing more that a band-aid more like a plastic surgeon. Anyway, the same truck (ranger) with a 3.0L (less hp & Q than S-T or CC) has a higher tow rating...see it's not all about hp & torque. BTW, I'm not reaching as far as that 'wonderful 4.0L'was when it was trying to find some torque to get up that boat ramp!
As to your arguement with mahimahi, I have to agree with him, I would rather have a truck (CC) than a SUV (Sport Trac) pull any time. You might think it sounds good for a while to have a high reving engine when you want torque, but in the long run it is much better to have an engine that gives you it's torque at low RPMs like to CC does.
If you want a SUV buy a Pathfinder, it is leaps and bounds above the Sport Trac, and in 8 years you will see what true quality is. If you want a 4 door small truck, buy a Nissan CC, it is a true 4 door truck!!
Having owned both Nissans and Fords, there is no comparison in quality...buy a Ford (ask any older Windstar owner) and change trannys and other parts for the rest of its short lifespan!!
My Ranger doesn't hold a candle to the 1992 Nissan pickup a good friend of mine has. His idea of "routine maintenance" is changing the oil and topping off the windshield washer fluid. My Ranger burns a quart and a half of oil between changes, leaks transmission fluid from a faulty set of rubber transmission plugs that Ford won't recall (check out www.fordranger.com and see all the complaints on this), and mysteriously loses antifreeze from somewhere at the rate of about a quart a year. The entire upper half of the engine has been replaced by the dealer, along with most of the emissions sensors and other equipment, in a vain effort to find out why the damned engine pings like hell ALL THE TIME. (The Ford tech rep I've met with three times finally said that was the way the engine is "designed" to run ... believe that?!!!)
If you truly want to compare Ford and Nissan trucks, go to nhtsa.com and check out the number of recalls and TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) each has had. That'll tell you something about quality. It seems to me, as an owner, that Ford releases unproven designs to their customers, who then have to deal with Ford's recalls and TSBs as Ford *attempts* to do the homework it should have done before the vehicle was released to the public.
In summary, I've owned my one Ford product, and I've learned my lesson. No more Fords for me, thank you. I've had it with "Ford Quality." Guess I'm in the dog house. And you know what they say about dogs loving trucks. Nissan, here I come.
I did sit in the Sport-Trac (at least the Canadian version)and I was not impressed by the new age look of the interior. I did not find the comfort level bad, but I wouldn't rave about it. The fit and finish was above Ford "normal", but definately not as good as the Nissan.
If you want to talk quality, see the post above yours about Rangers, also go to Edmunds topic about Explorers and learn first hand about poor quality from owners; not wannabees. I have owned Nissan and Ford's and there is no question whose quality is better!
As to your power, I would be interested in seeing the graphs of torque only because I am interested in how much torque the S-T has at 1500-2000rpm where most pulling is done with Automatics.
As for your hooking them up together - Who cares??? The CC can easily pull a 3000lb trailer at normal highway speeds and that is what is important, not "mine does 0-60 in 2sec. and can go 150mph while pulling my cigarette boat"!!!
This is post 391 from the
New Nissan Frontier Crew Cab - Price??
Seems the Nissans have rear main seal problems.
REAR MAIN SEAL LEAK
Also see #385 I purchased a 2000 Nissan CC XE 2x4
on Dec 21 1999. Almost immediately I noticed oil
drips in my driveway. Took me until 19 March to
even consider that it was my new truck. Crawled
underneath....BINGO!!!
Dealership has had my truck for a week. They claim that the parts are on back order from Nissan. Why are they on back order? Others with the same problem? Too much demand for rear main seals? Another week and I'm going into the dealership to really complain. Dealership has
been cooperative. Gave me a loaner to drive...some small 4 door nissan car. I don't want a car, I want my truck back. Already suck money into a new sound system and spray in bed liner w/stamped aluminum tailgate cap. Any others with oil leaks?
As for the sandbags, you might not want them if you have to get the revs up to get the torque. If the truck is an auto and you don't want to do a break stand, spinning tires might be what you need? Just a thought. I am really not a techy and I don't completely understand HP/Torque but judging by other comments in this forum it seems there are a lot more factors than just those two plain numbers.
As for the tug of war I was half joking about the sand bags. I guess what I was hinting to is if one vehicle is spinning its tires the other vehicle could win the tug of war with simple traction. The bed of the ST is so light that it may not get as much traction as the Nissan. But who knows? like you, I'm not that automotive technical myself.
And as for Dealers and Service, I haven't had the new truck serviced yet. But, with my old 4Runner I HATED the local Toyota dealer Sales but LOVED the same dealers Service Department. I can't say enough good things about my old Toyota's Service department. They were VERY honest. (Kind of hard to believe, but true!)
I hope when I start using the local Ford service they are just as good/honest.
I'm a bit confused about your post #174 you say
((but I can tell you this the Ford did sag (not alot like an explorer) but it did, when the trailer was hoked up as did the S-10. My point is that the Sport Trac has the same suspension as the regular exporer, which might explain Ford's reason to produce a composite bed.))
To me you are confusing suspension with towing capacity. How much the truck sags is related to the trailer tong weight and how stiff the suspension is. IMHO it is not directly related to the towing capacity. The ST which I would consider a hybrid has a softer ride and therefore the suspension is softer and it would sag more.
You can order the Payload Package. Did the ST you used have the "Payload Package #2" option? Have you checked your trailers tong weight? Every trailer has a range for the tong weight. I found in my area, most of the time no one checks the tong weight to verify the boat is loaded properly.
The trailer is supposed to carry the weight and the truck is supposed to pull it. Although I've see the opposite.
My apologies, I didn't catch the last line of your post 174. Looks like you have checked the tong weight of your trailer. So my question is did the ST you tested had the "Payload Package #2" option.
Take a look at www.carpoint.msn.com and see that Ford cars/trucks fair pretty doggone well. Also, if we are going by personal experience, both my Rangers we/are excellent. I can also name 7 Explorer owners that have had excellent reliability/quality wiht their Explorers. Which is still the number one seller, after 9 years and with all the competition.
Nissan never went "belly up" and is not owned by renault, define your terms or stop using misinformation. And why is it you never mention all of the extremely high sales increases for Nissan accross the board, even with out any renault products?
It seems the more you respond the more you show how little you really KNOW! You really showed you true colors in response #184. What's with the statement that you would like to hook a tow chain to both trucks...isn't that something uneducated 5 yr. olds say on the playground? It's clear to all of us (Crew Cab and Sport Trac owners)that you have no real experience with either vehicle. I say it's time for you to step up to the plate and drop the $25-$28K on the Sport Trac since you're already sold on it, then you can come on here and have some validity to your responses until then you responses just won't mean much!
BTW, you never answered my question, doesn't the 4.0L in the Ranger have a max horsepower of 160. I'm not looking for this answer to attack the Ranger. Just to prove to you that a truck that has less HP(in this case the ranger)can have a higher towing cap. than a truck that has more(the c.c. in this case. I know this is getting kind of confusing,this refers to your HP does matter issue.
You are just plain annoying. You must have an inferiority complex about your beloved Ford products. That might explain why you are continually bashing Nissan to the point of totally misrepresenting facts (Nissan did not go belly-up and is not owned by Renault). As far as reliability of Nissans vs. Ford, refer to my post #63.
Yes, the Ford Ranger 4.0 has 160HP and 225ft/lbs of torque at 2750rpms. Soon the same SOHC 4.0 in the Sport Trac will be available in the Ranger in both a 5spd automatic and a 5spd manual. Where is Nissans 5spd automatic?
It is no secret that Nissan is now controlled by Renault. Soon after the Renault take over several top Nissan Excecs stepped down. YOu folks are saying Nissan isn't owned or controlled??? and remains its own identity? You are greatly greatly mistaken and misinformed. Renualt now controls Nissan. You are not up on auto news. This was all over the net and at www.auto.com. I will eductate you all once again and find some links.
No, I don't own a Sport Trac. Have taken a ride in one though. A guy had one at one of my daughters basketball games. Interior was far superior to the Nissan CC in terms of comfort, fit and finish. Nor do I plan on owning one anytime soon. I am pleased and content with my 1998 Ranger XLT Supercab stepside 4.0 5spd 3.73 gears, offroad pkg, tow pkg, P265x75R16 all terrains, loaded to the max and more... I also use this truck as a 4x4 in my play time in the Cascade Ranger of the Northwest. This is my second Ranger and so far am quite pleased with its performance, reliability and quality.
"owns" to "controls" after you were challenged. I guess it is all a matter of definition, but Nissan
does, contrary to your uneducated statement, retain it's own identity, if you did not read about the merger or whatever you want to call it, you would not even know what is going on. There is no difference here in the states at the dealerships or in the design studios. Renault had absolutely zero to do with the hottest vehicles in the market right now, like the Xterra, Crew Cab, the new Maxima and Sentra, all of which are big hits. These were all designed in NDI in California, starting years ago before there was even a talk of renault. So again, what does this have to do with which is a better Vehicle? Nothing. You always turn back to this when you get shut down with your "Me have torque, Torque Good" caveman argument you have been schlepping around here the last year or so.
I seem to remember you spouting off too that people shouldn't buy a Nissan because they were about to go "belly Up" and be an orphan car like a Hudson or something. Well, gee I sure don't remember you saying anything more the last few months about that, still believe it? I don't see how you walk around with both feet in your mouth all of the time.
My God son....did you read any of my posts? If you can find in any of them that I said the Nissan Crew cab is more powerful than the Sport Trac, I'll buy you one!
Again, (I'm sorry for those of you who already got what I was saying) I was posting that the CREW CAB IS A BETTER TOW VEHICLE when it comes to towing heavy loads. To further my point it is better not becuase it's a Nissan but, because it's a pickup. If you and I were on a ranger vs. explorer page I'd be saying the same thing about the ranger. Then how would you argue me then? Nevermind don't answer that, I'm scared at what you might say. I also know that not everybody tows with their vehicle, I was posting my experiences for those that are considering either vehicle and plan on towing a heavy trailer.
In your reponses to my issue(towing) do you keep asking about a 5sp Auto from Nissan? You still need to turn the over-drive off when towing unless you want to burn up your transmission. So how does it help you towing? Just wondering.
I think it would be fair if you and anyone else who is posting that is a dealer or employee of an auto related company indicate it in your profile. After reviewing your posts I see you are NOT hiding the fact that you are a dealer, but for speaking for Newbees to the list I feel we would like to know who is and who isn't.
This way I know when you are speaking about Nissan I know you have information that is probably accurate.
I notice you and Vince going at it quite a bit and I suspect we have 2 dealers fighting it out. :-) How about it Vince are you a dealer?
know I can tell no one is comparing apples to
apples.
All the stats being used are pulled from sales
material. You can argue the numbers till the cows come home but until you compare real world data its all statistical hype.
This thread seems to be related to muscle and
towing. IMHO the ST is a hybrid vehicle. A bit of luxury and a bit of truck. If you want muscle buy a full size Truck. With a 4ft bed and softer
suspension the ST is made for light hauling and a
smooth ride. That's what I brought it for. If I
wanted to haul a large boat 100 miles I would buy a full size truck.
Hurray for Nissan if the suspension is stiffer and it doesn't sag under a heavy load. I only tow 2% of the time prefer the softer ride of the ST the other 98% of the time. I also wouldn't try and tow a 2.5 ton trailer with ANY 6 cylinder.
IMHO, Ford is marketing the ST in the SUV 25-40
year old (have kids) market and NOT the Truck
market. The 3 CarSeat points, lower ground
clearance and soft suspension are a dead give away. Stop trying to make the ST a Full size Truck.
Nissan is marketing its vehicle in the 18-30 year
old market who want to do light off roading. Higher ground clearance, flared fenders, Mud flaps and a choice of wild colors is a dead giveaway. So is the lower MSRP and fewer options.
Ask yourself this... What do you plan on doing
with the vehicle?
Personally, I drive to work with the 6 CD player
on, the sun roof and rear windows open. On
Saturday I move a small couch for a friend or tow a tandem wave runner trailer to the boat ramp. If it snows I give it to my wife for her safety. The ST is a perfect combo for me.
mahimahi,
I disagree with the blanket statement that you
need to turn off Over Drive while towing. The only reason I would turn my Over Drive off when towing is IF I was towing a HEAVY 1.5+ ton trailer. There is no reason to turn off Overdrive while towing a ton or less.
You know, I debated bringing up this issue for two reasons. First, I feared that it would seem like I was trying to degrade the Sport Trac and second, it would bore those who don't use their vehicle for towing. Especially to the majority of owners that use the vehicle the way you do. In fact my guess is that the majority of us that own a C.C. use ours the way you use your S/T (myself included). Except my situation is that instead of PCWs, I have a demo that has a gross weight of around 3500lbs. This is a common weight for most 18 to 21ft boats(which happens to be the most popular size sold), these aren't considered big boats at all. I'm sure there are some owners or potential owners that trailer more than 1200lbs. With this note you don't need a full size p/u or a v-8.
Anyway, my intention wasn't to fear-off a potential S/T buyer, but rather inform those that plan on towing anything with some weight that a pickup is better. The only reason Hp ever came up was because of a fellow ford fan. You can call my information 'disinformation' if you want, I wasn't the one writing my complete posts out of the Ford brochure(sorry if that wasn't intended to me). As for your OD you do what you want, its your tranny.
So I apologize to those that are completely bored with the towing issue, I promise I'll move on.
My glovebox is too small! I'm serious...it lacks about an inch for my manual to fit...Any Sport-Trac owners wanna trade? I have a grey interior so it needs to match, if it's tan I'm sure I can paint it. I'm just kidding trying to have some fun here! :-)
YOU GUYS HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!!
Even though I am well outside of both of the age ranges mentioned by fordsporttrac, I do have to agree with his assertion that the ST is aimed more at the luxury SUV market, and the CC is more utilitarian. That is why I like the CC. But like gooba says, the Sport Trac, the Nissan CC and even the Dakota Quad, are all competitors. They all accomplish the goal of carrying four people inside, while carrying the bulky and messy stuff outside. If your priorities include plush ride, and carrying 4 full sized people alot, the ST is probably better for you. If you want a somewhat shorter truck, with a slightly larger bed, smaller turning radius, more firm suspension, for $3k less, and can live with a smaller back seat, consider the Nissan Crew. If you want something closer to a full size truck, maybe the Dakota, or even the F150 is better for you.
Jeff
I also stated the suspension right out of Truck Trend April 2000 issue, a Motor Trend spin off. They had great things to say about the Sport Trac also. Its large interior, quality/fit/finish were up there too. They compliment the smooth revving V6, and smooth 5spd transmission offered. Someone in here kept claiming the Sport Trac can't tow like the Nissan CC because of suspension. I gave all the suspension specs, tow specs, engine HP/Torque, redline ratings. The Sport Trac is superior to the Nissan CC, live with it.
You said;
>I have to disagree with your first statement >about the comparisons. The Sport Trac is a >competitor to the Frontier Crew Cab as well as >the Dakota Crew Cab. The comparisons at least >mine have to do with the 4wd version. The Sport >Trac is a viable option to the Nissan and some of >the comparisons were done in this arena.
I don't think you understand my statement. Yes they are competitors but in different markets. Would you say that the 18K Dodge Caravan competes with the 26K Chrysler Town & Country? The CC and the ST are in different target markets.
You also said;
>Mahimahi is correct in saying to turn off the od >while towing. It is even recommended to only have >the od on when you plan on traveling at highway >speeds and this is with NO LOAD in or towed >behind the vehicle.
The problem with that statement is NO WHERE in my owners manual does it say that. I would think Ford would be OVER Cautious in telling me what to do in the owners manual. It DOESN'T say what you say. It DOES say and I quote "Automatic Transmissions may shift frequently when driving up steep grades. Eliminate frequent shifting by shifting out of Overdrive."
The manual also says ;
Deactivate Overdrive when:
Driving with a heavy load
Towing a trailer up or down steep hills
Additional Engine Braking is desired.
Please point me to any documentation that supports what you say so I can compare. I see only references to "Steep Grades" and "Heavy Loads".
mahimahi;
You Said;
>I have a demo that has a gross weight of around >3500lbs. This is a common weight for most 18 to >21ft boats(which happens to be the most popular >size sold),these aren't considered big boats at >all.
Would this be the same trailer you towed with a ST in the earlier post? I assume you used the bumper hitch on the ST (since Ford doesn't sell recievers for the ST). From the owners manual of the ST and I quote;
"Towing a trailer of 3,500 lbs (1,588kg) or more requires a weight distributing hitch."
What I must assume is you overloaded the bumper hitch on the ST when you demo'd it. Did the other vehicles you demo'd have a weight distributing hitch?
You also said;
>I'm sure there are some owners or potential >owners that trailer more than 1200lbs.
In my previous post I referred to Tons. In your comments it appears you think a Ton is 1000 lbs. A ton is 2000 lbs. I said I would never try and tow 2.5 Tons with a 6 Cylinder. That is 5000 lbs. I also said I would not turn off over drive unless towing 1.5+ Tons. That is 3000+ lbs. or about the weight of your demo.
You also said;
>but rather inform those that plan on towing >anything with some weight that a pickup is >better.
If your gona tow 5000 lbs you should have an 8 cylinder vehicle with some weight. Just saying a pickup is not enough.
You also said;
>My glovebox is too small! I'm serious...it lacks >about an inch for my manual to fit...
Hey the Sport Trac has a Pocket just for the manual in the storage area.
jeff555,
You said;
>Even though I am well outside of both of the age
>ranges mentioned by fordsporttrac,
Hum, I hope your not driving and well under 18. Just kidding. Target Marketing is just a best guess. So I'm gona guess that your in the 18-30 year old range at heart.
You also said;
>But like gooba says, the Sport Trac, the Nissan >CC and even the Dakota Quad, are all competitors.
You also indicate that the ST & CC are competitors in the same target market. Would Nissan put a commercial for a CC on The Garden Channel or would it put it on MTV? I think MTV. Would BMW put a 60K car on MTV? (Yea I know Extreme example) Price of a vehicle determines the market its focused on. The ST's Base is higher than the CC. You may feel the ST is too expensive but that not my point. I'm talking about the target market of a CC vs a ST. They are definitely different. Do the vehicles have similar features? YES they do, but so do Corvettes and Ferraris. I certainly can't afford a Ferrari and I haven't seen an commercial on MTV for a Ferrari. (Yea I know another Extreme example)
What I'm trying to say is;
Sure Ford wants to steal sales away from Nissan but they are focusing there marketing dollars at a different "Target Market" then Nissan.
My point on the HP vs Torque vs Gear Ratio thread was the numbers used are coming from marketing materials. They are designed to look the best they can. Real world testing is setting a base line and testing against that line. If the test is how well does it work towing a 3500 lb trailer up a 10% grade at 60 MPH than that's great but lets compare apples to apples.
mahimahi;
In your trailer test, you used the same trailer but did they have similar hitches? Or was one a bumper and one a receiver?
Gooba,
Where can I find the information you speak about on Overdrive.
Ok sorry for the rambling.
My Glove Box is great but my Rear View Mirror is too low. Any Nissan CC owners wanna trade?
As for my earlier post about the OD,I made a general statement.It is based on recommendations from transmission rebuilders and service managers.I will take your word that your owner's manual says what you so nicely stated.i know that there are other people that read these posts and I would rather make a conservative statement then one that may cost someone some money.So,if you are comfortable doing what you are doing,more power to you.Best of luck.
The hp/torque threads are not based om marketing materials. The hp/torque figures are true figures from the dyno of the engine. The manufacturer has to give those figures as being accurate.The debate centers on the practical application of the vehicle with known experiences of hp and torque values.It is how people use these vehicles day to day and how it reacted in certain situations.So we are comparing apples with apples,as long as we are comparing V6 engines and how they work in their respective vehicles.
Maybe we can get back to a civil discussion of the comparisons between these 2 fine vehicles.
I agree with you, this should be civil. Also I agree that these are both wonderful vehicles. But,I feel that I must respond. This one's long and its all for fordsporttrac so here it is:
Wow!!!! I thought in your previous post (#208) you wanted "real world data". Well that's all I have given you but, you still discount it. What "real world data" have you given us?
First the glove box thing was a joke and I was actually making fun of my Nissan's glove box, but that's because I can admit that my Nissan isn't perfect and I don't have to be defensive about faults it might have. Plus I was trying to lighten up the page a little....oh well.
Secondly, I know what a ton is but thanks anyway. The 1200lbs(oops sorry, 4/5 of a ton) was referring to towing jet skis, ultility trailers and so on. You know it's funny how the ford fans(you know who I'm referring to)started out saying it's HP/Torque that matters in towing capacity to now it's the amount of cylinders. I've got some nitpicking for you. I was willing to let these particular statements slide but, now I can't hold back.
In YOUR blanket statements and let me quote YOU (from post #208): "I also wouldn't try and tow a 2.5 ton trailer with ANY 6 cylinders"
and:
(current post)"If your gonna tow 5000lbs(2.5 tons) you should have an 8 cylinder vehicle with some weight...."
Ok... guys according to fordsporttrac,we need to trade our trucks in and get a Infinity Q45. Come on why not it's a vehicle and it's got 8 cylinders. Well, that's if you want to tow 2.5 tons. Now here is the question, taking into account the ridiculous statements you made..What about the Dodge/Cummins combo?huh? That's right, it's 6 cylinders.
If you check my previous posts you would see that my statements weren't 'blanket'. I said that if a pickup and suv were in the same class the pickup is a better tow vehicle but between you three(zack1000, vince8 and now you) I got sick of repeating myself.
I did not use a receiver hitch on any of the vehicle that I test drove because(since you want to get specific) my demo's weight is 3385lbs. fully loaded w/fuel and gear. So I didn't need a receiver hitch or weight distributing hitch. BTW, only logic would have it, that with a receiver hitch it would only make it worse. You are putting the tongue weight even further away from the axle!
I'm going to go to several of the ford dealerships(svc. dept) around here and ask them what they recommend about the towing in O/D. They might tell you to do it, they get 10% gross profit on the job! j/k But I will check it out anyway, if for nothing else my own curiosity.
The specs on the suspension...what do they tell you, 'two stage leaf springs', softer ride right? Check my previous responses to forsporttrac on your suspension relation to towing. I never hammered it down to just one thing, read the previous responses. Understand this, nowhere did I say or imply that the sport trac is inferior, as you do about the crew cab but, I guess you do it to get a rise out of some nissan owners. I'm saying (again)that the c.c. is a better tow vehicle. I do have question for you, how does the interior relate to towing? I think you've been asked that before. I never saw the answer.