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Volvo XC90 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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  • And just to get it out of my system, I did similar comparison, using Edmunds calculator for your S2000.

    I've got 17,523 for the 2001 and 19,168 for the 2002 for the trade-in value.

    Where did you find that $2-3000 difference that you are referring to?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    According to Edmunds, the trade in value on my 2002 S2000 with 18,000 miles in outstanding condition is $22,163 for my zip code. A similar mileage/condition 2001 has a trade in of $20,670 for an approximately $1,500 difference. However, Edmunds does not take into account some real market factors. For example, the "value" of the glass rear window and certain other improvements for the 2002 MY are not really reflected by Edmunds. In order to qualify as "outstanding" a 3 year old 2001 model S2000 would be required to have the rear plastic window replaced at a cost of $400-$500. I actually received $22,000 trade in on my S2000, essentially the full value for an "outstanding" car, no questions asked. In my experience, the older the model year of the trade in, the LESS likely you will get full trade in value for your vehicle regardless of what Edmunds, KBB, etc say. The likelihood of a dealer agreeing that your trade is "outstanding" geometrically declines the older the model year.

    Edmunds is good, but not perfect. The 2004 TL 6-speed with HPT package that I traded for is listed as having a MSRP of $35,395 and a "TMV" of $35,067. My actual price was $33,308 at the dealer that took my S2000; over $1,750 less than the "TMV".

    As far as my negotiating skills, I bought a brand new 2002 S2000 in November of 2001 for $32,000 even. The MSRP was $32,880 and, at that time, the Edmunds TMV for my zip code was $36,880 ($4,000 premium). For California, the "TMV" was $40,000+. The 2001 that I didn't buy was sold 2 weeks later to an Arizona doctor for $35,000. I met him when I went in for my tags. He claimed there was a 6 month wait list in the Phoenix area. The only reason I got a below MSRP price was that I had done my research and walked into the dealership with my checkbook, no trade, on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving as snow started falling. The entire transaction took 30 minutes, including 15 minutes for them to wiggle the 2002 out of their interior showroom floor. Three days later, it was 60 degrees and sunny.

    Look at the Edmunds "TMV" for the XC90 and tell me if you think that it's accurate. For a fully loaded T6, the TMV is about $1,100 under MSRP $2,500 over invoice. In fact, I could pick one up immediately for $1,500 to 2,000 UNDER invoice, a price which appears consistent with deals others are getting in this forum.
  • OK, Edward,
    So your position is to buy the latest model year at premium, trade car in after just a few (2-3) years.
    Mine is - to buy at the discount price (previous MY, if possible) and keep a car till it is fully amortized.

    Both position are valid, I think, and just a reflection of our different life style.

    I just think that the car dealers love people like you and hate people like me.

    And we can let our readers to decide what is more suitable for them.

    First of all - some of my principals:
    - there is no car in the world that is worth paying more than 2% over the invoice.
    - you should not sell your old car, unless you can get a retail price for it. Why let a used car dealer make a profit on your trade?

    I live by those principals pretty much. I do not remember paying more than $500 over invoice for many years. And I am reluctant to sell my Mazda MPV 1998, unless I will get $500 over KBB suggested retail price (not a trade-in). If I can not - I will de-comission a car for a year, till my daughter comes back from Spain, and will pass it on her. It costs just $10 in CA.

    Now,

    Are you aware that every mile you drove S2000 costed you $0.6 ($10000 over 18000 miles).

    On other side, every mile I drove my S80 costed me so far 0.43 ($35000 over 81000 miles) and it still have at least $10,615 in residual value (KBB trade-in for my ZIP code and good conditions), and I consider that residual value, my cost per mile is $0.30. That is why I have no problems to use my personal car for the business purposes and get reimbursed at IRS rate of $0.375.

    Also, I consider to keep my car for another 4 years, at least 150000 miles. You can do the math on what my cost per mile would be. And I do remember about maintenance - so far I am covered by the extended warranty and did not pay anything on a top of the regular maintenance.

    The warranty is $2265, so additional - $0.027 less than 3 cents).

    So, I am pitching for the conventional wisdom of my heritage -
    By late in the model year life cycle, especially, just before the style is replaced at the biggest discount you can get, and keep a car for as long as it can be maintained at the reasonable cost.

    You will save a megabuck by doing that.

    And forget about all those nifty calculation in Edmunds. Edmunds lives on automotive industry, not on a consumer's support.

    The only useful figures there are - invoice and incentives. But these are public figures anyway. Dealer can not lie to you about them. They might not volunteer, but if asked, have to disclose them.

    I have been using these figures well before the Internet. Had to pay to the Consumer Report, so I could do my homework, but never had a situation when I could not get these numbers from the dealer at the point of negotiation.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I think we agree more than you think.

    I bought a 1995 Nissan Maxima in September 1994 for $20,700. It's still running perfectly and looking darn good with 153,000 miles. I've been offered $4,500 to sell it, but prefer to move it to our second house as a back up car. The total cost of depreciation is 13.5 cents, the net cost, less the current $4,500 value, is 10.6 cents.

    As for the S2000, it was a "fun" car, so, yes the cost per mile was high. Only about 1/2 of the cost of the Boxster S I considered, but definitely higher than I expect out of a daily driver.

    And I very much respect your strategy to buy the less expensive, earlier model year and drive it into the ground. That is a financially prudent approach. My point was for those that don't subscribe to this approach because they want a new car every 3-5 years, buying the later model year is generally made up for in the difference in resale value.

    I guess we disagree slightly on the 2% over invoice target. There are numerous cars out there that I wouldn't pay invoice for, others that I would pay more for. It's supply and demand, and I'd be looking to get the best deal possible for market conditions. But $10,000 off adds for a Ford Explorer wouldn't get me to consider it in lieu of a XC90.

    Finally, $2,265 for an extended warranty on the XC90?? An Acura 7 year 100k warranty on my 2004 TL is $1,080. The price for my Honda S2000, with boatloads of sophisticated engineering on the engine, chassis, transmission, brakes, etc. would have only been $1,040. I can guess why the Volvo is so expensive - a friend traded his S80 recently after paying $1,500 for a new alternator at 60,000 miles.
  • I always believe that a good discussion brings people together rather than drives them apart...

    A couple of comments -

    2% over invoice is not a target, but a maximum allowance that I am willing to pay, so the dealer can have a fair profit for the fast moving car.

    Last 6 years - since my 1998 Mazda MPV, I was buying cars under the invoice (two last ones - through Volvo OSD).

    Getting back to my previous statement, that a car is an expensive toy - my strategy is to define my desired "bracket" - normally as expensive as I can afford at any given moment - large European sedan, upscale cross-over SUV, etc. - and then, look for the most reasonable deals in that bracket.

    Consider that, Volvo makes a whole lot of "economical" sense. But it might not have any sense to others.

    Volvo is very sophisticated in "under the skin" design. By the way - that $2265 is for the S80.

    S80 has a totally unique drivetrain design with traversed mount in-line six. That, plus a limited volume makes this car more expensive to repair. Honda shares a lot of parts with all the other models, and these parts are produced in millions, which makes them much less expensive.

    Volvo produces just about half a million cars of all the models, therefore, even with the sharing, all the components are more expensive by default.

    But, I enjoy that unusual design very much, as it makes for a lot of extra interior space within the rather regular exterior dimensions. Just take a ride on a back seat of Volvo S80, BMW 5 and Mercedes E and you would know what I am talking about.

    Also, if I would take the same 7 years 100K miles coverage with the new car, it would be around $1500 - $1700. I have paid a premium for a procrastination.

    I will get an extended warranty for the XC90 right away, as soon as it hits the local dealer in a week or so.
  • lee_wlee_w Posts: 239
    Does anyone have any current buying experiences to add to this discussion?
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    and more data on extended warranties would be useful - my 90 is not in hand, yet, but I plan to buy an extended warranty.

    then again, if I took the 2K and bought Google stock with it......
  • Al,
    Did you talk to the dealers in your area yet?
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    I have not researched it yet. My car should arrive in a week, so it's probably time to look into it.
  • Mine is on the same boat. I am planning to talk to one friend of mine - the financial manager of the local Volvo dealership this weekend and will share my numbers.

    Keep us posted.
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    Our boat should have landed today
  • bskbsk Posts: 26
    Lev & Al,

    We picked up our XC90 about a week and a half ago. It came in about 5 days earlier than the FDC had estimated. All our accessories were installed or in the vehicle (except one that was out of stock - they assure me they will ship later). The dealership made a half-hearted attempt to clean it up, but it still had parts of Sweden on it.
  • I surely hope so...
  • Brian,
    Congratulations, enjoy it.

    Spill some champaign on it (you do not have to actually smash a bottle, just shake the bottle well, and spray a car) for the long and trouble less service. I am pretty superstitious about it, and always throw a good party blessing every significant purchase (maybe just because we, people from Russia, like to party and finding all the possible excuses).
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    nice idea re the champagne, Lev

    you're sure it won't damage the finish? I better stick with the California sparklers versus the Russian variety (just kidding)
  • I am so glad that I happened upon this forum. I especially liked the bantering about the 2004 vs 2005 models! I just got a 2004 (with a handsome discount off of the sticker I might add) and I am VERY satisfied with my decision. I also like to hold on to the cars "forever". I am an avid Volvo owner and now have a 1993, 960 wagon for sale. By the way, I did get the extended warranty. It proved to be a very wise investment 10 years ago and with all of the additional computerized equiptment, I assume that it will prive to be a wise investment again.
  • barryctbarryct Posts: 29
    What did the warranty cost you? What is the length and mileage of the warranty? What are the exclusions?
    Thanks,
    Chris
  • It was a bit pricey, and I didn't try to negotiate. It was $2,388. Quite a bit of an increase from the $900 I paid for the same extended warranty in 1993, but this car has so many component parts, we were advised by an auto mechanic friend that it was worth it. In addition, I had just paid $2,000 for a repair bill on our 93 wagon, so this price seemed reasonable as one large repair bill! It is a 7 yr or 100,000 mile warranty with a $100 deductible. It does not cover things from normal wear, ie belts, battery, filters, fluids, alignment, etc. My old one did pay to replace the intake manifold gasket, replace the cooling fan switch, replace the A/C evaporator, and repair the tailgate lift. (Possibly more, but these are the items I found just now running through the receipts.) I should have had them repair the seatbelt retractions in the back seat, but I forgot to pay attention to the expiration date. Hope this helps...
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    The Tancred just sailed from Port Hueneme, which means that my 90, and Lev's, are finally in California

    Let's see who gets his first!!!

    Good info re the warranty. A few questions:

    if you don't use it, do you get your money back? (I had this feature in a Chrysler Warranty recently, despite Dodge's protestations that no such warranty existed. After they read it, they were very surrpised. I did use the warranty, however, so I didn't get my money back.)

    is it transferable to a new owner of the car?
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    OK, I am about to do something that I know you should never do: if I were to buy a fully-loaded (except for 17 inch, not 18 inch wheels) 2.5 today, would I get a better deal than what I got through overseas delivery?

    and I want RED

    oh, and I didn't get the side decor or the running boards/flaps/skid plate, but I got pretty much every other dang thing
  • I think you could, but if you consider the off-set for the European trip, the OSD will be a better deal anyway.

    See my math somewhere in the previous postings.

    My net pay-backs from the Volvo on a car+trip were well over $10,000. I do not think that you can get it here.

    And I would go to Europe anyway...
  • barryctbarryct Posts: 29
    Thanks for the info. Do you know who underwrites the warranty? I am wondering if I can find a similar contract online.

    Thanks,
    Chris
  • It depends on where you live. I had no luck in California, and I am not a novice to the internet searches.

    There were many companies selling extended warranty on a web, but a few were admitted in California, and they were not any better then a quote from the dealer.
  • lamomlamom Posts: 1
    I am wondering if anyone has an idea of when the 2005 models will arrive in TX. I figure this might give me an advantage on getting a good deal on a 2004 T6. I plan on sticking with the 2004 since I often keep my cars for the long haul. I'm a patient purchaser waiting for the right deal for what I want. Since I plan on negotiating via fax I am willing to consider any dealership in TX. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best time to buy?

    Thanks
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    Hi Lev: I am nt second-guessing myself. I just want to have real data. The trip was great, and I'd do it again. Of course, if I discover that I could have saved 5 grand by buying it today, instead of going......

    of course, it was a great experience for my kids, and for me and the wife, so I don't have any regrets, even if I did learn that I would have saved money buying here.
  • I have a feeling that I am not quite clear in my postings.

    My point is, that, at least in my situation, I did save a lot than I can save here by going OSD.

    The MSRP (estimated) for my car was over 44.5K and I have paid $40,600 (not to mention that I could not get exact same car domestically).

    Then, my estimated cost of trip (that I will was planning to take anyway) was over $15,000 and I have spent (not to count gifts and merchandises) under under $9,000, saving $6000 right here.

    The combined savings are well beyond and above of what I can negotiate locally.

    Look at that from other perspective.

    The best deals we have heard here on this board were about $2000 - $2500 bellow invoice.

    With the OSD you start $500 bellow invoice, and you get 2 round trip tickets to Europe - $2350 in my case. So you already close to $3000 below invoice. And this does not take the savings on a car rental in Europe - which in my case (renting a large SUV for 21 day would cost me a little fortune - you can check the rates...)

    And this just a financial side of it - plus the great experience you have.

    So, once again, I would not think even for one second to choose OSD over the best local deal, for as long as I have a physical ability to travel.
  • adp3adp3 Posts: 446
    all good points, Lev

    I had not paid attention to the posts about pricing, as they were not relevant to me. I thought that we might be seeing better deals than $500 off invoice.

    my 90 is on the truck - it could arrive today, but definitely by tomorrow

    never say "definitely"

    :-)

    I better make up my mind re the extended warranty, and running boards/flaps/skid plate
  • Sorry, I've been gone a while...the warranty IS transferrable, and I do not see where it is refundable. However, I anticipate that we will use it at least to some degree...
  • phaworthphaworth Posts: 20
    I cannot take advantage of this offer but maybe you can.

    2005 Volvo XC90 2.5T AWD

    Premium, Climate and Versatility packages
    cargo net
    18" Alloy wheels
    0 due at lease inception- 0 drive off
    $473 per mo + tax & license
    48 month lease 12k miles per year
    Bad News-Expires tomorrow 8-31-04
    Royal Motor Sales -San Francisco

    Sounds like a great deal.
  • Al,
    How did you find out that your car is on a truck?

    I better call my dealer tomorrow.
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