VW brand experience - good or bad?

lemko · January 2005

...shows you how to change the bulbs. I kind of miss the days when all you had to do to change a bulb was to unscrew a few phillips-head screws.

mglt0 · January 2005

I have to agree with the "Don't Do It!" message. I currently own a 2003 V6 Passat and have grave concerns with owning it. I love the look, feel, drive and comfort of the car, but the love ends when it comes to the quality.

I live in an area that gets maybe 3 inches of snow a year and I can't drive the car in these conditions, the fender liner of my car will snap off and snow will get impacted behind it or I will hit the brakes and the Traction Control makes the brakes go nuts. Both situations makes the car un-drivable.

As for the service, they SUCK and so does the customer advocate line they will agree with the service department in all cases. So they are worthless.

Above all this, the resale value of a VW is non existent. I went to look at trading up to a Touareg and the car is worthless literally! Now the thought of another VW is out of my head for good.

Don't do it! Go with a different brand, sounds like Mazda is the way to go!

krzyss · January 2005

better tires to solve traction problem ?

Krzys

deathb4vw · January 2005

I feel really sorry that for you that you own 2 VWs. I own a 2002 Golf GLS with 57000 miles on it that is averaging less than 1800 miles per repair ( not counting regular maitenance, tires etc ) . It's left me stranded at least 8 times in just over 2 years. Luckily most of that was under warranty, as the VW dealership recently charged me $400 for the equivalent of fixing a broken wire... NEVER, NEVER EVER EVER, will I buy another VW and I strongly advise anyone else of the same. Unless you like being stranded and having a car in the shop every couple of weeks. I am personally selling this P.O.S that I had planned to have 8 to 10 years, after 2.5 years and taking a huge loss, simply because it's so unreliable as to be totally useless to me. What's even worse is that almost every repair has been for a different problem, which means I can't even get them under the state lemon law.... And I know a number of other people who have similar experiences - so this is not a one car issue....

600kgolfgt · January 2005

Gee, I wonder how I was able to manage with my 4 VW "lemons" in 23 years:

1975 VW Scirocco (primary car, 85% highway driven) - 6 years, 250K (and this was the most unreliable of the bunch until I replaced the Zenith Carburetor with a Weber downdraft and converted the ignition from points to electronic). Even drove this car cross-country three times and was never stranded.

1987 Golf GT (primary car, 85% highway driven) - 16 years, 624K - The only time this car left me stranded was when the fuel pump failed - at 375K. Extremely reliable. I performed most of the maintenance myself. Replaced the following major (normal wear and tear) items:

90K - Replaced the timing belt (first two timing belts I replaced myself at 90 & 180K - mechanic replaced the belts at 270K and beyond).

145K - Performed the first of many suspension changes (shocks, springs, struts) (myself)

160K - Performed complete brake job - front disks and rear drums (myself)

175K - Replaced the original water pump (myself)

199K - Replaced the original clutch (mechanic)

200K - Replaced the original starter (myself)

235K - Replaced the original alternator (myself)

375K - Replaced the original fuel pump (myself)

429K - Replaced the original engine and transmission. (mechanic)

2003 Wolfsburg Jetta (weekend car, 75% highway driven)- 45K miles so far, absolutely NO problems (repeat: NO problems).

1997 Jetta Trek (work car, 95% highway driven) - Just turned 125K. Purchased car last year at 80K - original owner didn't trash the car, but didn't actually maintain it either - probably traded the car in with an intermittent check engine light problem. After a quick scan of the engine compartment, I noticed a crack in the ignition coil. After replacing it myself ($156 for the coil), the problem was solved. Changed the timing belt at 90K (like I have been doing with the 1975 and 1987 VW), and had the clutch replaced (since I had no idea how good the original owner was with the original clutch). Driven for 30K after that with no problems.

If you drive a VW, keep the following things in mind:

If you are going to do a lot of stop-and-go city driving, get a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. These cars were developed in a country (Japan) with narrow roads, and massive rush hour traffic (I've been there), so the cars are properly designed for stop and go city-oriented driving, and tend to be much more reliable in those situations. VWs (as well as most other german cars) were not designed for stop and go driving. They were designed for long-distance high-speed driving on the autobahn. As long as they are driven on long highway commutes, they will last a long time. If you drive these cars every day in the stop and go, hustle and bustle of the city, you will tend to have MORE problems.

Many car owners tend not to take into consideration whether they will do mostly city or mostly highway driving when purchasing a vehicle.

Remember, folks (and I cannot stress this enough):

If your driving mostly consists of city or suburban stop and go driving for short distances, I wouldn't recommend a German car (in fact you would be wasting your money big time IHMO). Get a Japanese, Korean, or American car.

If you do a lot of highway driving, however, I would highly recommend a German car, because highway (autobahn) driving is their stong suit. The Germans specifically engineer the steering for "road feel", just for this style of driving.

And as long as you keep the car properly maintained, it will prove to be quite reliable.

And one more thing, folks - Never, EVER, buy any car in its first couple of model design years - whether German, Japanese, Korean, American, whatever - to do so is asking to be a beta tester to help the manufacturer work out the bugs.

boaz47 · January 2005

What is being said is there are some good VWs out there. It is just that there seem to be more bad VWs than many other cars. The Odds seem to be against you. Even Consumer reports, a magazine I am not all that found of, list the VW as a bad buy if you are looking for a used car.

driftracer · January 2005

"They were designed for long-distance high-speed driving on the autobahn"

So if you need to regularly TURN or STOP, or RESTART your car after stopping, get something reliable?

600kgolfgt · January 2005

You can take that statement anyway you want it...whatever floats your boat...

driftracer · January 2005

I'm very happy that you've had stellar luck with your VWs. You are truly the exception to the rule, and with the immense volume of VW lemon law cases, I'm not speaking from an anecdotal position.

anonymousposts · January 2005

The new Jetta and Passat both look as if they will be decent cars. That said, I will probably not seriously consider one due to the quality problems reported here, in CR, on various websites, and personal experience.

600kgolfgt · January 2005

You wouldn't happen to be somehow affiliated with the legal profession, would you? Just wondering...

600kgolfgt · January 2005

...and for the record, I've also owned Hondas, Nissans and Oldsmobiles which have served me a long time. So it is not luck, it is skill, a tremendous knowledge with the care and maintenance of vehicles, electronics, computers, etc. So you are correct in saying I am the exception to the rule...

Have a nice day...

driftracer · January 2005

Feel free to check my profile - yes, I work for consumers. I investigate, formally report on, and testify on lemon law cases.

210delray · January 2005

You mean there are no cities in Germany; it's sort of like Montana?

What really amuses/saddens me about VW is how long they have been producing junk.

I had a new 1975 Rabbit and then a new 1979. The '75 refused to start about 3 months after I bought it, when the weather turned slightly colder. It had to be towed for replacement of needle jets in the carburetor. That was just the start of many problems with this car, including premature clutch wear, a broken sunvisor, catalytic converter innards coming loose, cracks (!) in the floor under the seats, muffler rusting/leaks, and the beginning of excessive oil consumption. I traded it for a '79 before it hit 40K miles.

The '79 was better, but the alternator quit when the car was 2 years old with only about 15K miles on it, stranding us on the road. The blower motor failed also, before 30K miles: I thought some leaves had gotten in the blower motor, making a clicking sound that drove me up the wall. Then one day, I caught a whiff of a burning smell.... Also it was recalled by the EPA for excessive oil burning due to premature valve stem seal wear. Mine hadn't yet begun to use oil excessively, but I remember the sticker VW sent to affix to the fuel filler opening reminding me to check the oil at each fillup. I sold the car at 33K miles. That was my last VW.

Amazing how some things haven't changed!

bjbird2 · January 2005

Driftracer, why do you troll this site and others? You don't even own a VW. Are you just being irritating and antagonistic because you enjoy it?

driftracer · January 2005

No,I don't "troll" anywhere, thank you, and I've owned 12 VW products, thank you again. I help consumers and I can sway someone away from making a poor buying decision, I will.

I'd seriously look at an R32 once there's more power. I can't see owning anything else, since reliability is a major deal for me.

I've done several hundred VW lemon law cases, they're third in number to Kia and Hyundai in my personal stats. A real bummer, because I think back to thefun I had in the Beetles I've owned when I was overseas, and the GTIs I raced autocross with.

And speaking of causing trouble, I'm sure your comments here were meant to improve someone's self-esteem:

#999 of 999 rsharp by bjbird2 Jan 30, 2005 (12:32 am)

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As I said Randy, watch your Ford. It may catch on fire while you're not looking. At least the Pacificas are not going down in flames.I'd rather have a clunking noise (and I don't) than a truck prone to spontaneous combustion.

Perhaps you should clean up your own back yard before criticizing mine.

600kgolfgt · January 2005

I had a 75 Scirocco - first model year of the Mk1 series. The Zenith carburetors were basically junk. A new one at the time cost about $500 and a rebuilding it was basically worthless. So I did some research and replaced the Zenith with a 2-barrel Weber downdraft carburetor for $160 and the carburetor was no longer an issue after that. But I learned a valuable lesson - never buy a car during its first model year of production. That philosophy

has treated me well since my next 3 VWs lasted a long time:

1987 Golf GT - 16 years, 624K miles (totalled by a deer) - 3rd model year of the Mk2 series and last VW year built in Westmoreland County, PA (east of Pittsburgh).

2003 VW Wolfsburg Jetta (currently own) - 45K and absolutely NO problems. 5th model year of the Mk4 series.

1997 VW Jetta Trek (currently own) - 125K and still going strong. Final model year of the Mk3 series. I have the 2.0 liter engine and it does not burn any oil (Makes me wonder what boneheaded design change VW made with the 2.0 liter engines for 1999 through 2002 that created their oil consumption problems)...

The 1979 through 1982 VWs kind of lost their identity when VW tried to "Americanize" their vehicles. Big mistake. I avoided these cars like the plague.

The 1988 and later VWs through 1995 I definitely avoided like the plague, especially since VW just moved their production facility to Mexico for the 1988 model year.

The 1999 through 2002 models I also avoided like the plague. More problems:

Window regulator - some genious decided to use plastic clips to hold up the glass instead of metal ones, which they eventually started replacing the plastic ones with during their recall)

Ignition coils - Problems with their supplier delivering a bad batch - reminds me of the 1987 recall for heater core failures due to a bad batch received from their French supplier.

The reason I have had better luck with VWs than other owners is because I carefully do my research and usually buy cars in their final model years. The probability of the bugs being worked out is much higher by then. I do not wish to become a beta tester for any new model car, and I also do not have a desire to be the first on the block with the latest and greatest gizmo that comes out on the market. I prefer to let others make that move and learn from their misfortunes.

600kgolfgt · January 2005

> And speaking of causing trouble, I'm sure your comments here were meant to improve someone's self-esteem:

My, aren't we getting defensive with the personal attacks... Thanks for providing me with a good laugh, but my self-esteem and I are getting along just fine, thank you...:-)

Besides it takes someone with a hell of a lot of self-esteem to be a long term owner of the most "unreliable" automobile on the planet - 4 times as a matter of fact...:-) Bottom line - I drive VWs because I enjoy driving them, warts and all...

I congratulate you on your ownership of 12 VWs. I guess you're doing it for purposes of "research" in order to strengthen your litigation cases. I suppose I can't blame you for wanting to keep the revenue stream flowing by any means necessary. In fact, I would probably do the same thing if I were in your shoes...

driftracer · January 2005

That wasn't a post meant for you - that was for the person who posted before me - if you'll reread the post, you'll see the person's post that I dropped in (thus the : after the words) - if you're over-sensitive, I suggest less caffiene - it wasn't talking to you.

"I guess you're doing it for purposes of "research" in order to strengthen your litigation cases"

Completely uncalled for - I have no bearing on the strength of any cases, I'm not a lawyer. I'm a technical expert - huge difference. And, no, I've been an expert witness for 4 years, and hadn't owned a VW since 1998.

My revenue stream has nothing to do with the vehicles I own or the research I do - I simply report on the cases I'm given.

600kgolfgt · January 2005

So noted. I stand corrected, then...

...and for the record, I tend to avoid caffeine and the other vices of a (sad to say) pill popping, alcohol and drug-consuming society...

But thanks for your concern...

> Completely uncalled for - I have no bearing on the strength of any cases, I'm not a lawyer. I'm a technical expert - huge difference. And, no, I've been an expert witness for 4 years, and hadn't owned a VW since 1998.

Are you a non-profit organization? Pardon my skepticism, but nothing

gets accomplished nowadays without a financial motive lurking somewhere behind the scenes...

driftracer · January 2005

and I get paid a straight salary to consult (1099 contractor) with the attorneys in one firm on lemon law and dealer fraud cases. I do 20 GM files per week, per prearranged agreement with one of the partners, and I'm given 10 others from everyone else. I don't care what manufacturer these cases represent - I review them, and write a formal report with my opinion, whether it be light or strong. They take my opinion and evaluation and settle the case, or use it in arbitration or trial.

With this, I see a broad spectrum of manufacturers represented in the 5,779 cases I've worked on in 4 years.

I get paid the same whether I'm writing on a Chevy Cavalier, a VW Golf, or a Mazda Miata. Win or lose, I get paid the same, and there's a never-ending supply of cases - I don't have to advertise or drum up business - I pick up the new files and give back the completed files - period.

Personally, I could care less where they come from (manufacturer) - I'm paid for an opinion. With the large number of cases I've had, though, it's easy to notice strong trends, and I post those trends here on Edmunds at times.

bjbird2 · January 2005

So you're not a troll, you're a consumer advocate for all of us, a watchdog reporting his opinion on manufacturers.

Kind of our own Ralph Nader.

driftracer · January 2005

but whatever....think of me as the Ralph Nader who isn't a geek, works out, races autocross, shoots guns, and takes all kinds of other risks...

Can't see old Ralph doing any of that stuff. I also know the automotive industry and I'm interested in vehicles as an enthusiast, something he can't say - I doubt I'll ever see old Ralph doing Solo II with me at Cal Ripken Park in Maryland...

And I'm not older than dirt, either....

bjbird2 · January 2005

I'm impressed.

Just curious, why do you drive a Saturn and a Dodge? They seem like rather mundane cars for an adventurer like you.

driftracer · January 2005

at my expense. The Dodge is a V-8 Quad Cab 4x4 with a Kenne-Bell supercharger and a bunch of suspension mods and Center Lines/Dunlop muds. It's the wife's truck. The Saturn is an Ion Redline (supercharged) that is already getting power mods. I was looking at an R32, Evo, or STi, but decided it would be easier to sell the wife on a new bike if I spent $15k less money on my car.

Let's skip the personal stuff from here on out, OK?

PF_Flyer · January 2005

Let's veer away from talking about each other as much as possible! Thanks!

PF Flyer

Host

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fish8 · January 2005

Everyone has their opinions and none of us will change the others. The great thing about choice is we can all drive what we want. It is a fact that VW's are not as reliable as Honda's and Toyota's. But, VW's do offer (IMHO) a level of driving pleasure that I don't find in VW's Japanese competitors. That level of driving enjoyment makes me take more risks (if you want to call it that) in choosing a VW over a Honda. I know that I will most likely visit a VW Service Center more often than if I drove a different make. But, so far, that choice has worked out for me. Honda's are good cars, but I prefer a VW instead.

An aside: I have been reading the posts of Driftracer for awhile now and think his experience provides great insight and his posts are seemingly accurate and enjoyable to read!!!!

Again, thats the great thing about these boards, we get to read the opinions of many poeple!!!!

mnrep2 · January 2005

I have owned 2 VW's over the years, an 85 Jetta, 140K miles, and currently a MY2K Passat GLX 72K miles. The Jetta did need some upper engine work (Not warranty) at 109K, and had a gas tank pump replaced (Warranty).

The Passat has truly been a wonderful car, but like a lot of german autos has needed stuff repaired (All under warranty). AM radio quit (Corroded antenna connections), Battery will discharge if leave car sit for week or two unlocked. If you lock it the computer goes to sleep and doesn't discharge the battery! Finally at 70K miles it was leaking oil from the cam tensioner seals. All work done under warranty. Car has been a blast to drive and own, but I am looking to replace it. In MN AWD is really a good thing to have. Am now looking at the Infinity g35X. Love the horsepower and rear wheel drive bias on the Infinity Vs the Passat FWD bias even W/ AWD also, the passat is basically unchanged from 2000 and I am not going to buy the first year of the B6 version.

Overall, have had great service from two Volkswagens in two different decades, and found the dealer support to be very good both times around.

jmue · January 2005

I can unfortunately only confirm your statement. My 2002 VW Passat has been repaired or re-repaired 19 times, towed twice in the first 2 years.

After having owned 5 japanese cars over the past 14 years, nothing had ever gone wrong until I bought this Passat.

Homelink went out after 1 month, 5 different lightbulbs burned out, being towed twice for faulty ignition coils, 3 times attemtet to repair trunk hinges, 5 times the check engine light came on, fuel ignition and another ignition coil replaced. Finally, before 60,000 miles I called in another check engine light. I could not get an immediate appointment, I reported to them the mileage and they said the car was driveable. When I got the Passat into repair I was told that the No. 4 cylinder head needs to be replaced, but since I drove it past 60,000 miles the dealer told me I was out of luck and the Drive train warranty of 60,000 miles had expired, although I reported the problem prior to that.

Rather than go to court I sold the car.

Normally I share a pickup from a rental company and I hear all these familiar horror stories from the other owners.

VW keeps Enterprise Car Rental single handed in business. This is my second experience with VW, one in 1982 and the next in 2002, both the same nightmare, never again.

bingo · February 2005

I am considering buying a car soon and really like the look of Passats and Jettas, but I owned a '79 Scirroco years ago and had sworn never to own another VW. After reading the posts herein, I think I'll pass. Nothing has changed with VW.

There seems to be a love/hate relationship for many VW owners. I loved the look, the feel, the handling, but the overall ownership experience was bad..too many electrical problems(melting fuse panels, elect. smoke etc) poor dealer service(my last trip I left screaming at the service mgr), and VW has what I belive was, and apparently still is, a poorly designed engine. After about 70K, the dealer told me that my head were warped..and one of best friends had his 1980 Scirroco engine, when it was about 4 years old, seize on him. I have no doubt that someone can get a good reliable VW, but the odds are that you won't. Sorry, I'll stick with the [non-permissible content removed].

lemmer · February 2005

I had a 1978 Scirocco. I don't have the time or the memory to list everything that I had repaired, often several times. But, I loved that car. It handled so much better than the competition and it had better styling in and out, too.

I recently owned a 2002 Passat. It regularly had small electrical issues and other bothersome things. I never really worried too much about it breaking down, but it seemed like I was always running to the dealer for little things. But, I really liked that car. Once again, it handled better than the competition and it had better styling in and out, too.

Both times I replaced it with a Japanese car. The more things change...

lefthandman · February 2005

I owned an '87 VW Golf GT (5-speed manual, 1.8 liter gasoline engine) for 15 years (bought it used in 1990) and it was a terrific handling and very reliable car - the few major repairs in 232,000 miles were: (1) a new radiator around 100,000 miles; (2) replacement of engine and transmission seals around 150,000 miles. Other things did fail and go wrong in the 15 years - a/c system repaired twice (compressor, condensor), replaced the alternator once. And the interior had minor but irritating rattles. But by-and-large most of the repairs were routine maintenance: rubber axle boots, brake pads, etc. I changed the oil myself every 3,000 miles for the duration and the engine never used more than 1/2 a quart between changes. Most amazing, the original clutch lasted the entire 232,000 miles.

I did a lot of research and looked for several months this past fall for a brand new or newer used (2001-2003) Golf. But in the end the overwhelmingly negative on and offline comments about recent VWs ultimately steered me away. I love how VWs drive and handle, but just didn't want to deal with the reliability issues. So I bought a 2004 Mazda 6S 5-door (hatchback). It doesn't handle or drive just like a VW, but for me it's a good compromise. And better yet, the Mazda doesn't have a recent model VW's electrical system. I'm hoping VW reliability improves. If so, I'll seriously consider a clean-burning TDI Golf or Jetta if/when the U.S. finally has low sulfur, clean-burning diesel fuel widely available. We all have to make our own decisions, and that was my decision-making route. Good luck.

600kgolfgt · February 2005

Man, you had your 87 Golf GT about as long as I had mine (16 years, 624K miles), and I would still be driving it if it wasn't for a 55mph collision with Bambi.. My original transmission lasted 429K when the differential went out due to high-mileage wear, so I replaced both engine and transmission with one from a 1988 Golf GT which had 80K on it... Those were the days. Didn't have to worry about fancy electronics or computers. The car even had the original ignition coil and fuel injection system (in perfect working order) at the time of the crash.

I'm now driving a 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta (45K, no problems so far), and a 1997 Jetta Trek (125K, doesn't even burn oil)...

stunna1 · February 2005

I couldn't find how to post a new topic, so I hope someone will be able to help me. Please help. My car's starter cranks longer than normal, you can hear the cranking sound even though I've taken my hand off the key. And yes I do know how to start a car, just in case you needed to know.

But here's the problem, I replaced the starter at a vw dealership with an auotlite starter and the problem still persists. What is going on? has anyone ever had this issue? Please help me. Please email me directly, at fedisir@gmail.com thank you very much.

j

600kgolfgt · February 2005

What year is your car? And do you have an automatic or standard transmission?

bpeebles · February 2005

Are you saying that the starter keeps cranking AFTER you have moved the keyswitch back to the "run" position?

This sure sounds like a KEYSWITCH or RELAY problem to me. (The starter only cranks when it is getting power....it can not continue to crank "on its own" )

hugh1 · February 2005

my vw stealer/dealer, Trend Motors, Rockaway, NJ, refused to repair the antenna on my 99jetta under warrantee...said the problem was 'reception'. Suddenly, post-warrantee, they suddenly presented me with an estimate of $500 to do what they did for you for free! Was seriously considering 'coming back' to VW via a new GTI VR6. As they say in Brazil;"No way, Jose!!!"

hugh

chrisducati · March 2005

I have a good friend that has had three engines in her Jetta in 78000 miles. This is the 2.0 4cylinder. The first had a cracked block between two of the cylinders. VW replaced the engine under warranty. The next engine lasted just two months and had a rod knocking. The third engine belches black smoke when it starts. We are talking 1972 Diesel truck amounts of black smoke. The fuel injection was replaced but that didnt fix it. They say the computer is bad even though it doesn't give any signals that anything is wrong. She is trying to sell it. Just to look at the car you would never know... its very sharp. White with all black interior.. shame it is junk.

bartio1975 · April 2005

I have driven close to 60 K miles since my purchase in Apr'02. Around 20K, my window regulator broke which hey replaced under warranty. Around 30 K miles, one of my headlights was replaced at no cost. Every now and then when I lock my car I wont hear a beep. Reason is the hatch has some electrical issue. If I open the hrear hatch and close it I will hear the beep confirming it is locked. But sometimes I will hear the beep after a minute or two!
At close to 50 K miles I had them change my rotors without any charge as I had mentioned this problem of steering wheel shaking when coming to a stop from hight speeds when I was in for 40 K service. WesGreenway VW@Alexandria, VA. They are very good. Russell VW in Baltimore lead in their suckitude!
I commute 100 miles daily and I have to fill an extra Qt of oil around 4K miles. VW did a oil consumption test and says they consumption is within limits. The 2.0 L engine is quite old technology. The 1.8 T is better. I love my Golf, but I hate the high engine noise in the car. I love this car that I will drive it till it dies but dont know if I'll buy one again because of the noise. VW design, styling is seond to none IMO. You get more for your money with many standard features. Japanese cars will cose 2-3 K more for similar accessories. How else gives you 4 air bags for each front passenger for a sub 16K car? I think driving a VW is an experience and I love it very much. If they make the car less noisy I'm sure I will be back in line!
I bought my car from Quirk VW in Quincy, MA before I moved to VA. They were alright.
People who are buying a car look into http://cars.msn.com and edmunds.com for reviews. Most people in this forum are people with bad experience hence the scathing remarks. I'm not saying htey are lying, but the saying "you'll hear from them only when things are wrong" is true for any product and any consumer. And for the record, my car has never refused to start, stall etc. I would say it is reliable. Here I see everything negative (or mostly) if you go to carpoint website, you would notice that vw golf has an 8.3/10 with many people giving positive reviews!
Talking about dealers, most dealers are bastids. Ideally they would like to sell a car(junk or not) and not have to worry about customer service/repairs/parts etc.. So you start hating a product if the dealership sucks. Luckily for me the dealers I've dealt with have been pretty good.

shiphro · April 2005

I give up. the message board system screwed up my post beyond recognition.

i like vws but i'm not a fanatic. i'd buy another one if it fit my needs as well as the two i already own

alfox · May 2005

"Talking about dealers, most dealers are bastids. Ideally they would like to sell a car(junk or not) and not have to worry about customer service/repairs/parts etc.. So you start hating a product if the dealership sucks. Luckily for me the dealers I've dealt with have been pretty good. "

It's an old post, but one wonders how he knows that "most dealers are bastids" if the dealers he's dealt with have been pretty good......

perna · May 2005

Out of all my friends and family members, none has had as bad an experience with a car as I did with my '96 Jetta Trek. It was so bad, I have an involuntary shudder every time I drive by the VW dealer where I whiled away *days* worth of time.

It's a good thing it came with a free Trek bike, because I did need it!

600kgolfgt · May 2005

Should've waited for the 97 Trek. I don't get the shudder, even at 135,000 miles. :shades:

rsholland · May 2005

but my '84 VW Quantum "Wolfsburg Edition" wagon was a pure nightmare. That experience, along with a simlar experience with a '96 Saab 9000, swore me off European cars forever.

Bob

carlisimo · May 2005

Were Golfs so problematic in the European market too? They're as common there as Corollas are here... I don't get how.

And now the new GTI will come out around the time I'm finally getting a new car, but I'll be too scared to buy one. I honestly know zero people who have had unproblematic modern VWs (my parents had a couple before I was old enough to really remember them). On the other hand I only know about half a dozen people who've had problematic VWs, but I haven't gone to sleep yet so I'm tired enough to not remember everything. Still, 0 for 6 scares me.

Making their cars more expensive doesn't make me trust them more.

(And more importantly, I think that pricing the Jetta with the likes of the Volvo S40 and other near-near-lux cars will yield VW the same tiny market share that those cars get. It's not a very popular niche, but it's not a new one either... and it sounds like they're counting on this "premium small car" segment blowing up.)

davem2001 · May 2005

VW is making a mistake going too far "upmarket" - $80-90K Phaeton, $50K Toureg, $30-40K Passat, etc...

210delray · May 2005

...will ever be the hot ticket in the good old USA. For the same money, you can get a midsize or even large car with equal if not better fuel economy. Look at the Camry 4-cylinder: 24/34 EPA ratings, and the Malibu V6: 22/32. Even the 280-hp Avalon V6 gets 22/31, and it's pretty much a large car, certainly in the interior.

davem2001 · May 2005

Yeah, it's definitely a "niche" - probably 8 out of 10 people would take a Camry over a Jetta at the same price... I actually think a comparably equipped Camry costs LESS than a Jetta.

nippononly · May 2005

it's hard to make an exact comparison. A Camry with alloys and a moonroof would come in cheaper than the comparable Jetta, but it wouldn't have the auto climate control, and that would take a lot more money to get in the Camry. Similar thing with the Accord.

I wouldn't want the size of those large cars anyway, but I do think the '05.5 Jetta is overpriced by a couple of thou. OTOH, there is a rumor that Nissan plans to do this (move it up to "premium compact" status) with the next Sentra, possibly arriving for the '07 model year. I would be more sold on the New Jetta if they had done better with the fuel economy.

The only person I ever knew with a VW was my best friend, who had a '95 Jetta GL. Worst nightmare car she ever had. Traded it at about 70K miles, the auto trans was just giving up the ghost, and many of the electrical components inside had long since failed at that point (including the odometer, which read 36K, and I noticed when the dealer resold it they advertised it with "low miles! 36K" even though she had informed them of it. Crooks).

She moved on to larger cars in 1997, with first a Camry and now an Accord after she got bored with the Camry. Not a single problem with either, and she is sold on Japanese for the time being.

The single worst rated car by CR for reliability is the five year old Jetta and Golf V-6. OTOH, they now put the base Jetta and Golf 2.0 on the list of reliable used cars.

davem2001 · May 2005

I still say, it's definitely a "niche" - for every "enthusiast" who likes a Jetta for it's handling, "German car" feel, etc... there are probably 10 "regular Joes" who would rather buy a Camry or Accord, etc... that costs the same or less and is much bigger/roomier.

VW brand experience - good or bad?

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