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Mazda RX-8 Problems and Solutions
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Comments
The squeaking brakes did drive me nuts, but my dealer was helpful in getting it fixed and that's all you can expect from your dealer - do their best to fix it.
So why would I want to buy one and take the chance of major problems together with poor mileage?
Not sure what you're see'n. Looks like the RX-8 2005 is pretty solid according to CR at the above link.
http://www.forbesautos.com/reviews/2006/mazda/rx8/model-update.html
tripsec and others, I've got a rattle question. I'm wondering if my rattle is the same as your popcorn rattle. I've noticed that sometimes around 2.5 or 3K, generally while accelerating, that I get a metallic rattle that sounds like it is coming from the engine. Is this what you are talking about?
Thanks!
Mine seems almost non-existant when just gently accelerating on a cold start. Then after the engine has warmed up, the popcorn rattle comes back on a strong acceleration.
Can you help me with something? I live in Dubai and I am crazy about RX-8s. I've a mint condition used one in Aweer car lot. It was imported from the States and has done only 3000Km. It has the new Renesis engine too. What I want to know is how does the car perform in dubai heat? Does it heat up in the traffic here? I have a 120 Km daily commute and I want to use it as an everyday car. I've heard the engine needs a lot of looking after, such as an oil change at every third fuel stop. Let me know what your experience is with the car. I really want to buy it and this is the only thing holding me back.
Thanks for all the help.
Good to see experts on this board being still active. I came back to get advice on something I just noticed yesterday. I have a 2004 MT RX-8, and when I start from still, I feel very subtle vibration, probably from clutch pedal. When the car is warmed up, I feel that it kind of disappears. Does this sound like clutch slipping? If so, do I need to replace the clutch? I bought the car used about a year ago and I don't think my driving is particularly bad, though I find that with rotary's low-end torque, I need to rev the engine higher than before to start the car. Thanks in advance.
Usually a worn clutch is seen as slipping in lower gears (foot on floor, not clutch - slips when accellerating). Vibration from the clutch would be a warped flywheel. If it goes away when warm then it's not warped - warped flywheels stay that way over normal operating temps. It can also be caused by oil on the clutch plate. This often causes sticking (with clutch depressed, you have trouble getting the car in gear when stopped). The oil is viscous enough to spin the transmission even though the clutch has disengaged it. The mechanic can also check for this without removing the clutch. There is an inspection plate.
It depends on the driver, but my clutches have lasted the life of my cars (10+ years).
Change coolant every 2 years if using ethylene glycol (green stuff) or every 5 years if using propylene glycol. Higher concentrations of glycol will reduce corrosion. I use 50/50.
Replace belts when they show cracks on the ribs.
NEVER overheat the car, and NEVER run low on oil.
Although Mazda do not recommend synthetic oil, some owners swear by it. It -may- extend the engine life.
Engine life is greatly affected by what RPMs the engine sees. Don't cruise below 3000 RPM, and for maximim life don't operate above 7000 RPM for extended periods. DO occasionally allow the engine to reach red line.
Short trips (1-3 mi) will shorten engine life if done repeatedly.
Enjoy the car. Normally aspirated modern rotary engines should go at least 200,000 mi. if cared for.
Otherwise I try to use the full rev range on occasion. I drive over 3000 lots of times especially on the highway. But in town driving, unless I only shift manually, the RPM's are constantly dropping to 1500.
Autos are hard on the renesis, due to the low revs. they induce. Still, they seem to last. The only real reason to keep the revs up is to burn out the injection oil carbon, so it doesn't build up and jam the apex seals or a piece breaks off and jams the rotor. Well, in the renesis you also don't want to clog the exhaust ports.
Rotaries are funny in that the apex seals work so much better at higher RPM until they start to "flutter", but that doesn't happen until above the 9000 RPM redline and never in an auto as it can't reach 9000. If you get a chance to take a manual over 9000 RPM you can see in the exhaust when the seals flutter. You get lots of smoke when you release the throttle. It's good for it occasionally, as it tends to clean it out. It can shorten the engine life though if you do it too much. A rotary with a lot of miles on it (150,000+) should never be reved like that. The apex seals wear thin and will break. Not a good thing, especially at high RPM.
Even worse for the older turbos as the pieces of apex seal will go out the exhaust and also take out the turbo(s). $3000-$4000 for the engine, $2500-$3500 for the turbos. A "bad day". Luckely I've only read others sad tales. (knocking on wood)!
I bought a new RX-8 6-speed in June 2005. I now have almost 9000 miles on it, and except for an aftermarket Lojack-type system that the dealer talked me into (and caused the battery to go dead 5 times in 8 months), the car has been perfect. Mazda removed the GPS system and refunded the money to me, and also gave me a new battery at no charge. I love the car - I'm not a real leadfoot but I get 23 mpg at steady 75-mph cruising, and never less than 18 mpg around town, even with the AC on (during Arizona summers!). Just my opinion, but from reading some of these posts, most of the problems reported seem to be on the first-year 2004 model. Also, someone mentioned that using synthetic oil is OK - every Mazda dealer I've spoken to says you'll end up needing a new engine. I have to trust their word, I only use Valvoline 5W-20 non-synthetic - why risk something else?
First, running in manual mode I shift to second very quickly, using first only to get the car moving to 8-10MPH. Take offs are nice and slow up to 17MPH. Then at 17MPH I hit the resume cruise which is preset at 35MPH. I let the cruise control take the speed from 17MPH up to 35MPH. I leave the tranny in 2nd the entire cruise portion and repeat the process at every stop and go leg of the commute.
I believe using cruise to finish the acceleration and to cruise around the city is the best way to minimize the waste of gas that acceleration causes. I don't think there's much difference in MPG cruising around at 3000RPM in 2nd vs cruising around at 2000-1500RPM in 3rd or 4th respectively.
Plus the above technique seems to nearly eliminate completely, the popcorn/rattle I hear during low RPM acceleration.
My guess was that the engine had flooded, so i followed the steps in the owner's manual for flooded engines.. didn't really work! are my spark plugs busted? im quite worried!
To start the car, fully charge the battery.
Hold the accel. pedal to the floor and crank the engine in 20 sec. bursts, with about a minute between to let the starter cool down. Keep the pedal to the floor during all of this - this keeps the PCM (computer) from injecting any more fuel. This can take 5 min. or more of work.
When the engine fires release the pedal fully and let it start. Once it starts you may have to use the pedal to keep it running, as one or more plugs will probably be fouled (unless you fixed that first). Once it starts to warm up the plugs should clear.
To clear a really badly flooded rotary, first pull one plug on each rotor and squirt a shot of oil in there (just a cc or so), and turn over the engine (pedal to the floor). Then replace the plugs and proceed as above. This improves the apex sealing and allows the engine to push out the excess fuel. Note that when it starts the oil will create a large cloud of smoke so don't panic.
1) On cold starts, the popcorn/rattle will start instantly if I put the transmission into reverse gear immediately. If I wait a minute or two before putting her in gear and for the high pitched fan noise (automatic choke mode?) to stop, the popcorn/rattle will not start until a mile down the road.
2) If I drive will the RPMs religiously held around the 3000 level, the popcorn/rattle is minimized. when I get stuck in stop and go traffic, Huntington Ave in Boston at 5:00pm, the popcorn/rattle is much more noticeable.
3) If I'm driving in first gear at a constant speed at a high rev 5000, there is no popcorn/rattle, but the moment I shift to second, without letting off the gas, I'll here the popcorn/rattle for a few seconds. It's almost like there's too much gas flowing through the system and it takes a few seconds for the computer to balance things. Now if I attempt to smooth the shift shock (love that nissan add ) by letting off the gas on the shift to second, there is little to no popcorn/rattle.
Here's why:
1. The renesis engine in the car is a "high compression" engine. It's very difficult to get a turbo charged rotary to last when the engine is low to medium compression - it's going to be trouble with a high compression engine. So to do it properly, you'd have to lower the compression ratio (machining of the rotors - i.e. rebuild the engine for turbo use).
2. Adding turbos will presumably add a lot of HP and torque. That's why you do it. The stock transmission and differential will not hold the added torque - they can barely stand the stock power. So you will have to deal with that - different transmission and diff.
3. You will have to add a different engine computer to control the air/fuel ratio, such as a "Motec". The stock PCM just isn't designed for boost. You will have to leave the stock PCM connected to the car if you want the stock instruments, antilock brakes, and DSC to work.
4. The stock cooling system will not handle the extra heat - you will have to change the front of the car to add more airflow and will need a larger radiator.
Based on experience with the 3rd gen RX-7 engine "upgrades", I suspect you will end up spending between $20,000 and $30,000 by the time you're done getting it reliable. It would take probably 2-3 years of "tinkering". Don't even think about using the car for "general use" during this time! It'll be down most of the time. Oh, and you'd better have a very good "tuner" lined up to help!
Sell the RX-8 and buy a car with equivalent power to what you will end up with and it will cost less. A BMW 3 series, or Lexus IS350 come to mind. Both are heavier and don't handle as well, but that's what comes with that level of power with reliability. Or wait and see if Mazda bring back the RX-7 - if they do it would likely have the power and handling you appear to want.
Why not just buy a second car, a 3rd gen RX-7 Twin Turbo. You can get a nice one for maybe $15,000, and it'll go as fast as you'll ever need for 1/2 the price of your modifications to an RX8. Worse yet, that RX8, once modified, will never be worth any more than a stock car, while the older RX-7 TT will hold its value.
Still to much for me, and I'd never take any of the risks Pathstar talks about. But having the bragging rights to even the possibility of creating a monster road burner out of my tame RX-8 is worth something to me.
I'll post the visit to their shop here. Hopefully there will be pictures.
And just to underline what I opined above, a few days ago I "tested" my cat. converter - to do this you open the throttle and watch the boost gauge to see the second turbo transition. A plugged cat. will prevent this from happening. Went from 70 km/hr to 160 km/hr (100 MPH) in 4 or 5 sec. - on a road with a limit of 80 km/hr. That's jail, isn't it, or at least a mandatory appearance before a judge?
Just what we all need, a race car on the street!
Oh, and the cat is working fine.
On other forums the reliability is discussed a lot. General consensus is the 3rd gen engines last 100,000 mi if not abused by sloppy mods for extra power. Rebuilts don't last as long - perhaps 50,000 mi if done right. A Mazda rebuilt is $3000 or so from the "best sources". Expect another $1000-$2000 for installation (labour, new parts such as hoses, etc.). Don't forget the turbos! They will last perhaps about the same, though many say half as long. They cost $2500 or so for the set.
If you do it yourself, it can cost as little as $1000 to rebuild a rotary, but it is more typical to approach $2000. It's not hard to do, as there are few parts. Lots of measurements to check though. If the rotor housing is worn or the chrome surface damaged, you just buy a new one or a good used one. Ditto for the rotor. The apex, side, and corner seals as well as the gasket set and sealant are the common parts all rebuilds need.
Just so you don't panic, the last "normally aspirated" rotaries, the 2nd gen RX-7s, have engine life averaging 200,000+ mi. The second gen turbo engines averaged about the same as the 3rd gen.
Moral is, "If you want to play, you have to Pay!"
Is the Renesis built with significantly more expensive parts? The rotors are lighter, but are they of some exotic material or machining?
Having an engine suddenly become popular again is not all good.
A couple of days ago, at one point when the engine was warm, starting took a couple more seconds than usual. Remembering one of the threads on this board about starting warm engine, I thought it was nothing to worry about. But finally today, I encountered the real problem. I managed to start the warm engine, but immediately RPM got down to 5~600 and the car vibrated. Check engine light flashed, too. I reved the engine and somehow engine RPM settled to normal range and I was able to drive it away. However, check engine light stayed on. While driving it home, a couple of times I could feel the loss of power with light flashing. Each time I reved the engine and the car ran okay. I tried to keep the RPM high with lower gears. Now there is no question I will have to bring the car in, but can you tell what the problem is from this description?
Even if it was as the site mentioned, why would anyone complain? You would get a free new engine when you've put, what, 30,000 to 50,000 miles on the one you have now. I don't see the problem!
However, if they're gonna replace with NEW engines where necessary, I feel better!!
Keeping my fingers crossed that Rex got good guts from the factory and I don't have to think about it any more!!
Also, if they haven't fixed the problem in the new ones, what's the point??
Best part of this though, is Mazda is giving us all an extended warrenty. Free!
I'm not sure I've "come clean" with all of you but our engine failed in 2004 - fall. We got the first RX-8 in Edmonton in late July of that year, as I recall. We think it failed from lack of lubrication (it sounded like a bearing failure, possibly caused by a metering oil pump failure), and we got a new replacement. Mazda never told us, of course, what failed. We surmize this because in hindsight, we realized we didn't have to add oil and didn't see the level drop for a while just before the failure.
From the limited info. on the current issue, it's probably a different problem. Just the opposite. Oil leaking out of the engine and getting into the exhaust or something.
And now for my question: Is the popcorn/rattle I still hear related to the recall? I had just gotten over my worry over the friendly little noise from my engine/exhaust system.
And the vacuum test, are dealers able to do it now? My RX-8 is in for the 15K service right now. Should I ask them to do it?
I'm not sure what Mazda's procedures are, but usually you have to wait for the letter for any recall related work. They call you, you don't call them.
I add half a quart of oil every three or four fill ups. That seems normal from what others have said.
You are correct I think about the dealers. My car is in for the 15K service now and when I asked them about the recall, they said it would be October at the earliest. They also said the focus is on cars in hot climates, Southern Cal, New Mex. Tx, Florida, etc.
I've been in Texas for the last week. Texas has had 40 days straight of 100F plus in Dallas. Hot weather, can not be imagined, only experienced. Walk very slow and drive very fast is good advice down here.
BTW, I went by the Austin based PTP shop to see their turbo kit. They didn't have an install to look at, but they say they are able to pump out 350HP on the AT. They just don't recommend driving over 6000 RPM for very long. Torque from 4000-6000 is 70% greater. $12,000 is what they recommend as the whole system, but there is a question about routing some pipe download below. They haven't done an AT yet. They don't lower in the Renesis the compression at all.
It looks like quite a few will be replaced...mazda has an engine reman. facility in the Carolina's where the Rotary engine gets re-manufactured.
I want to install a radar detector above the rear view mirror, but the suction cups would be on the material I previously mentioned. Thanks.
Mazda Gallery of Norword Mass told me $500 and said the reason for the cost was the entire panel needed sanding and clear coat edge to edge after the dent and area paint. I checked around and that was a reasonable price. It was totally worth. I feel like I just picked up a NEW car.