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Oil change/fiascos

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  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Not going to say much else because it has all been said, but... the one leg a dealer doesn't have to stand on is the fact that they should take a note of the vehicle's condition with the customer before they take it into service. That way when it does come out and there is a dent, they will know and the customer will know how many dents, cracked windshields, etc before it went into the service. This avoids the potential scammer (and by this I am in no way implying that Savanah235 is trying to scam - please don't think that), but there are people out there that I have had experience with that will bring in their vehicle that is not in the best of shape and when it leaves our service bay they will try and claim that we damaged it while we were servicing it.

    But anyway, I am glad that this particular dealership is doing what they can to make things right. At least it is only a small dent. Things happen. I wonder how many new cars that have never even been sold that are sitting on the lot have been accidently dented and then fixed and we don't even know it?
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    That's almost as bad as the first time I had ever changed the oil in my car... it was an old Chrylser Laser 2.2 with the oil filter right on the front of the motor. As I recall, the oil filter gasket stuck to the block when I took off the old filter and I failed to remove it before spinning on the new filter. When I started it to check it I spewed oil all over the brand new driveway of the family I was living with. Talk about trying to get that out of concrete!!! I don't think it ever came clean.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    I'm not sure I would really worry about it. IF were say a quart or more I would probably drain some or change the filter as mentioned, but a half quart probably wouldn't hurt...
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    We have had a lucky "escape" from what could have been the destruction of the engine in our 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee V-6. A few days ago, my daughter drove about 70 miles from her job location to our family house. The trip was mostly at Interstate speeds. I happened to glance at the driveway under the car where she had parked the vehicle some 30 minutes prior. It was obvious that the vehicle was loosing a meaningful volume of fluid. We proceeded some two miles to the Jeep dealership where we had an appointment for a totally unrelated warranty repair which amounted to the replacement of the electronic shifting module. We asked them to look into the source of the leak as well. The next day I was called and told that there had been an oil filter failure! The tech saved the filter for me. He found a depression in one area of the rubber seal ring, and could find no other apparent problem. He "guessed" that the ring had allowed oil to begin leaking out. We are grateful that the engine lost only about one quart of oil before the discovery. Mind you that at the time of the discovery of the leak, the car had traveled some 2500 miles total on that filter and oil change! What can be concluded here? :confuse:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Somebody tightened it too much probably.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I wondered about that very thing, but saw no reason for the leak to start 2500 miles post installation! And I confess to being the installer. I've never had this happen over several decades, but then, the Purolator filters under scrutiny here seem to be excessively thin-walled to me.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh don't ever use a Purolator in an Audi. Always use German filters or Audi filter. You'll have this trouble time and time again. MAHLE or BOSCH or Audi.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Many thanks!
  • joann3joann3 Member Posts: 3
    I recently bought a used BMW and have to do my first oil change. When I called around for prices 1 person said that the price includes a German Filter, the other 2 people didn't mention that. Is it necessary to use a German Filter? If so, why?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't know about "necessary" but I certainly would if it were my car. They fit and they work and for a few extra bucks, this seems worth the assurance IMO.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    See answer in your duplicate post:

    HERE

    Try to post in only one topic if you remember.

    thanks

    Host
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Every manufacturer has their own filter, made by a sub contractor. What I noticed on my Hyundai, is that while AC Delco made a direct replacement, the Hyundai filter had a better bypass valve design, and came in a sealed wrapper such that NOTHING could get into the filter before installation. Such as bugs, and yes, that does happen. :surprise:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I have not, from personal experience, seen any grief come to a BMW by using an aftermarket filter, but I have personally witnessed grief coming to Audis (valve lifters not pumping up) and Mercedes diesels (aftermarket filter not tall enough, causing all the oil to by-pass it!) I think MANN filters are pretty darn good.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Years ago wasn't there a problem with VW engines blowing the gasket out of the oil filter at high rpm's? Don't recall if that was an issue with the OEM filter, aftermarket, or just excess pressure in the engine.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,345
    BMW filters are relatively inexpensive and in my experience they are the best choice. I would also make sure that the shop that changes your oil uses the proper oil. If you'll provide the year and model I can tell you the proper oils to use.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Several months ago, our 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee suffered the loss of about a quart of oil via a base gasket leak in an aftermarket filter. I do recall snugging the filter down at the previous oil change, then loosening it and resnugging it. I mention this, thinking that my adjusting the tightness of the seating may have set the stage for the failure. The leak did not occur until some 1500 miles had passed since the oil change. Maybe the filter was faulty.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Using AC Delco and a thin film of oil on the gasket, I have never had a gasket failure. Ever.

    Hyundai filters use a molded o-ring sort of gasket. Never had a problem with them, either.

    I have never followed the AC Delco instructions on tightening, either. If you do, you may find a leak. I basically go hand tight, then another 3/4 turn. works great.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    The filter that leaked seemed to be made of quite thin metal and seemed light weight.
  • 355f1fun355f1fun Member Posts: 2
    edited August 2011
    II HAVE A 1999 355F1 BERLINETTA FERRARI WITH ABOUT 18,000 MILES. I REALIZED THAT I HAD NOT CHECKED MY OIL LEVEL FOR A LONG TIME, FREAIKED WHEN THE DIP STICK READ NOTHING!!!!! I AM IN DOWN TOWN LA ON ALAMEDA STREET, AND I COULD ONLY FIND 30 WEIGHT SYNTHETIC OIL. NOT THE 50 I NEED. I CONCLUDE THAT 30 WEIGHT IS BETTER THAN NO OIL AT ALL, SO I PUT 1 QUART IN, AND FIGURE I'LL GET THE BALANCE 50 WEIGHT WHEN I GET HOME AFTER WORK. SOMETHING CAME UP, AND I COULDN'T GET IT. NEXT MORNING WHEN I CHECKED IT, AGAIN I COULD NOT GET A READ. I'M LATE FOR WORK, AND MY OTHER CAR IS IN THE SHOP. I MADE A HUGE MISTAKE AND DECIDE TO PUT 2 QUARTS MORE OF THE 30 WEIGHT, SYNTHETIC, BECAUSE I COULD NOT FIND ANY GAS STATIONS THAT CARRY THE 50. NOW WHEN I CHECK THE DIP STICK, I SCREAM WHEN THE LEVEL SHOWS WAY UP PAST THE FULL LINE.

    WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I DO? IT'S BURNING OUT, AND THE ENGINE SOUNDS LIKE **** ON IDLE. IF I KNEW HOW TO PULL THE PLUG AND DRAIN IT OUT I WOULD, AND GET THE 50 SHE NEEDS. WHAT SHOULD I DO? NOT DRIVE IT, RIGHT? I DON'T HAVE ANOTHER CAR THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND, BUT I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THINGS WORSE.

    COULD SOMEONE THAT IS AN EXPERT WITH FERRARI HELP ME OUT?

    STUPID MISTAKE,
    355F1NOTHAVINGFUN :confuse:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Why aren't you just flat-bedding this vehicle into a Ferrari-savvy repair shop?

    If you overfilled, that may or may not mean anything---at the worst you can cause some seals to leak and damage the catalytic---which isn't great but not terminal either. Personally I wouldn't risk running the car if it is overfilled, smoking and idling badly---regardless if it were a Ferrari or a Toyota because you'll foul your plugs and possibly damage the catalytics. They can only absorb so much oil to burn up.

    I just saw a Porsche turbo with this very problem, but they put in about 6 quarts too much and ran the car---that requires an entire new exhaust system and a tune up, but other than that, it survived quite well.

    If you are just a quart over, a simple oil change and an "Italian tune up" (blasting the car on the freeway, which Ferraris need to do) might be all it needs. Not being on site, I hesitate to advise you other than having the car taken by truck to someplace that knows what they're doing---the reason being that severe engine damage on a car of this type and vintage brings it close to a total loss. It seems unnlikely there is serious damage because you weren't all that low on oil apparently.

    Just about any engine can tolerate a quart or so low.
  • 355f1fun355f1fun Member Posts: 2
    THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY. WHAT IS THE IDEAL TEMP TO CHECK THE F1 OIL LEVEL, AND DO YOU KNOW WHERE I COULD FIND THE 50 WEIGHT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE. I AM IN THE CALABASAS AREA OF THE VALLEY.

    I WOULD LOVE TO GET HER ON A FLAT BED AND TO MY MECHANIC FOR THE MAJOR ENGINE HOIST AND $9,000.00 TREATMENT. TIMES ARE TOUGH LATELY, ESPECIALLY WITH A DIVORCE, AND MAJOR REINVESTING IN MY BUSINESS. BEING A SINGLE MOM WITH A FERRARI IN THIS ECONOMIC CRISIS, IS A [non-permissible content removed]. IN FACT, I AM PREPARING FOR AN ESTATE SALE TO GET THE FUNDS FOR THIS SERVICE. I'LL BE DAMNED IF I WILL GIVE UP AND SELL HER AT THE WORST TIME EVER. I'M TRYING EVERY WHICH WAY.
    IS THERE A FERRARI MECHANIC YOU WOULD REFER?

    THANKS AGAIN,
    355F1FUN ;)
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Okay, I know you're freaking out here, but please turn off the caps. Makes it hard to read. Thanks!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You might call Michael Sheehan and ask if he can recommend anyone.

    I don't see why you need a major service here.

    I think checking the oil at ambient temperature is fine. If you checked it with the engine hot, that's probably what messed you up, as lots of oil stays on top of that engine for a while until it cools down.
  • adoremycaradoremycar Member Posts: 1
    I dropped my car for oil change and replacing brake pads. I had a noise coming from rear brake. So I brought my car back.

    I happened to see the oil filter when the car was lifted for brake check up. It was filthy and covered with dust. So I asked a guy if he did not change the oil filter. He replied that he changed oil filter, but the cartridge did not get changed.

    Does this sound right?

    Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh well if you have a cartridge-type filter, that means that a canister is opened up, a new cartridge installed and then the canister is screwed or bolted back on. So yeah, if this is what you have, then the canister might look a bit grungy.

    You might be confused by the terminology?

    Most cartridge type systems end up being a bit messy. On my MINI for instance, it's darn near impossible not to spill oil on the engine.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    You don't mention car make, year, mdl, or engine....so it's hard to know what type of oil filter you have.

    As Shifty indicated, you could have a canister, in which it is the inside paper filter that gets replaced. Or, you could have a screw on can type, where the whole filter gets replaced.

    But to be a little more specific on your oil change, when you get an oil change you should get oil AND filter changed. It's possible to not change the filter, but then you have a quart of dirty oil already in the filter, and the filter may be partially clogged with all the old stuff. Common practice is to replace oil and filter.

    If you go to an autoparts store, in the oil filter section, look up your make, model, engine....and the book will tell you what the filter is that your vehicle uses. Go to the shelf and look at the new filter.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    What's with the return to cannister oil filters anyway?

    Back in the late sixties, as a kid working in a gas station some of the older cars used these and we hated them. They were messy to change and if you didn't get all of the o rings and gaskets lined up just right, they would leak and we would have to take them back apart.

    Now, these miserable things are coming back on quite a few cars I hear?

    What could the reasoning be for this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2010
    Safety for the engine. On a spin on filter, the only thing holding it to the engine is the pressure exerted on the gasket. If the gasket fails, the filter can just spin itself loose. Also, modern engines operate at pretty high oil pressures.

    All in all, I think cartridge filters are a good idea. A bolt usually holds them on.

    And yes, oil filters fall off and they can be blown off, too.

    If you think about the number of crappy, off-brand oil filters for sale, having to depend on the gasket of that type of discount-house filter is pretty risky.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited March 2010
    Makes sense, I guess except in all of my time around thousands of shops I've never heard of an oil filter spinning itself loose or falling off but I'm sure it can happen.

    Maybe I shouldn't have thrown away my old suction gun?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Besides what Shifty said, I think it also has to to with the environment. With the cartridge filter, all of that perfectly good steel is thrown out, along with a lot of oil that can't be extracted (unless the filter is crushed flat first). With the canister filter, you don't throw away metal, and it's easier to extract the waste oil before disposal.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh if you cruise the forums here, you'll hear occasional stories of oil filters coming loose---often human error, but you know what Mother Nature tells automotive engineers: "you provide the opportunity to make a fatal mistake, and I'll provide the person to do it"
  • richardsonrichardson Member Posts: 92
    Here's a how to site for Toyota's cartridge filter. This system looks like a pita.
    http://members.cox.net/n0v8or/avalon_oil_change.pdf
  • mbowen1989mbowen1989 Member Posts: 8
    Hi, I just wanted to add that the previous post said that overfilling may or may not mean anything. I would have to disagree because overfilling the oil pan with oil will cause the oil to contact the crankshaft when the engine is running. Which would cause the crank to whip the oil up like scrambled eggs. Which would lead to low oil pressure which can seriuosly damage the engine. Just thought I add that because I hate to see your Ferrari needing a new engine. Also I like to tell you that the W in for example 5W30 means winter not weight. Which basically means that when the oil is hot the viscocity is 30 and 5 when cold in simple terms.
    Hope you get her fixed
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I would have to disagree because overfilling the oil pan with oil will cause the oil to contact the crankshaft when the engine is running. Which would cause the crank to whip the oil up like scrambled eggs."

    That depends entirely upon the engine and the clearance between the typical top level of the oil while the engine is running and the bottom arc of the crank and rods, and that is IF the engine in question uses a wet sump arrangement. Said another way, some engines will whip the oil, otherss will not.

    "Which basically means that when the oil is hot the viscocity is 30 and 5 when cold in simple terms."

    Ummm, no. What the grading numbers mean is that when a multi-grade oil is cold, the oil flows as a straight-weight oil of the first number would flow when cold, and when the oil is warm, it will only thin out to the point where it will flow as a warm straight-weight oil of the second number will flow when it too is warm.

    As for "W" standing for "Winter", that is something of a misnomer as "Winter" really doesn't have much to do with it; the"W" is a hold-over from a very early SAE J300 oil specification.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That oil churning is called "cavitation". It can be a definite problem, you are correct, but probably not with 1/2 qt or even 1 qt overfill. You'd need to really load 'er up in the oil pan.
  • trench12trench12 Member Posts: 5
    ref 11Mustang v6: Took the car in for the first oil change at 1100 miles primarilly to dump any casting residue, chips or other unwanted junk. Ford dealer is now mandating an oil supplement with oil change. Is this a Ford endorsed proceedure or just something the local Ford service department thought up to boost the profit on the oil change??? thanx TG
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    KA-CHING! that's all it is.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    If it is a Ford mandate, the dealer should be able to show you a TSB on FMC letterhead, complete with a toll-free number for consumers to call.

    But it ain't gonna happen, because as good as that motor is, it just isn't that finicky.

    :)
  • jinamanjinaman Member Posts: 2
    I just started work in a service center. Today an Audi Q7 with a V6 came into my work for an oil change. I found the oil filter on the driver side of the motor about half way up. After finding the oil filter I notice a soft line running directly bellow the cap. It moved around a little but not enough to clear the canister cap and filter.

    I got the cap loose using a 36 mill socket and extension, but I was unable to pull it all the way out. After playing with the hose I could only pull it out about a half inch. I asked a senior tech to show me how to remove it. Unfortunately he had no experience with these cars either. While trying to work the cap around the hose the tech broke the internal retainer tube on the cap that holds the filter. We then had to go to Audi and buy a new cap and refund the service.

    Once i was back under the car, I figured out that I could work the filter into the housing and then maneuver the cap onto it and snap them together. Unfortunately I cant do this during removal because I cant separate them untill they are off the car.

    Had anyone experienced this problem and do you have a good technique for removal
  • maria_tumaria_tu Member Posts: 2
    > That's why I only go to dealers now, and try to use the same dealer consistently. They still make mistakes, but they will replace the oil pan if the thing gets stripped.

    how to get them to replace the oil pan. Here is my situation, I used only
    one shop to change my oil, it was fine for a few year, then this time aug31, 2011, they informed me the oil pan thread worn out??? (at first, they blamed
    the previous oil change person to damage the thread, but then I let them know that last time I did change oil here (as well as the previous two oil changes as I still had paper work in my car. Then, they changed the tone saying that because of the pan made of aluminium, so it is worn out. I did
    not have money to have the oil pan change, so the shop suggested to
    use oil drain oversize plug temporarily. I had no choice but let it done that way. IT WAS FIRESTONE store in Milpitas, CA. I knew their previous tech did overtighten it and damage the thread. So if anybody has any ideas on
    how to put a complaint on FIRESTONE, please let me know. Also, please let me know is any way to fix the thread without changing oil pan. My car is
    2001 Mazda Tribute V6, 94K miles. Thanks in advance.
  • maria_tumaria_tu Member Posts: 2
    wtd44:

    Could you help me by letting me know where to get a drain plug repair/replacement kit for my car 2001 Mazda Tribute V6 DX (the plug size
    is 12 (hole) 1.75 (thread) as it was told) Mine was tripped by the FIRESTONE
    tech while doing oil change for me (i did do the oil change in one store few
    years for my car - now they made mistake and did nothing about that by
    saying wear and tear as my oil pan is aluminum so the thread is worn out.
    I knew previously the tech did over-torqued (sp?)/overtighten it)

    If the thread is able to fix without changing oil pan, it is much appreciated.
    Also if anyone know how to send a complaint to FIRESTONE head quarter,
    please let me know.

    Thank in advance
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    They make an expansion-type oil pan drain plug. It's a bolt/nut/washer combination that sandwiches a piece of rubber between them. You put the bolt & rubber piece (one assembly) into the drain hole and just tighten up on the exposed nut. That draws up the washer on the inside of the ribber piece, which then expands the rubber and seals the hole.

    Kind of hokey, but it works.
  • eddiewaxeddiewax Member Posts: 1
    Whenever I read forums on oil changes, I never hear anyone mention the other important thing after changing your oil when it is warm; priming the oil filter. More damage is done to an engine in that first 15 seconds that an engine is started after an oil change. All that fresh oil is sitting in the crankcase, waiting to be drawn into the pump. When that engine is cranked, all the crankshaft journals, all the springs, valves, camshafts and other parts that need to stay lubricated are dry! Those few seconds of dry turning are destroying those bearings. Always remember to take a few minutes to pour oil into the filter first. Since the filter has a back-flow stopper, you need to pour a little, let it fill, pour some more, let it fill, ect. Most filters will take up to a half a quart in them. Since that is done, now oil can get to the pump almost immediately, since the filter is usually the closest thing to the oil pump. When re-installing the filter, turn until you can feel the o-ring touching the filter, then turn it just about 1/8th of a turn more. You don't want the filter too tight. Finally, if the car has a turbocharger, it is important after driving it to let it idle for a minute to give the oil a chance to continue to lube the turbo as the blades slow down. This isn't a problem in a supercharger, because it runs on crankshaft motion.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    Good advice. But that doesn't work if your filter is mounted sideways or even further past horizontal.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Letting a turbocharged engine idle for a minute prior to shutdown is simply a waste of fuel in 99% of the cases. That said, if you've been blasting down the highway at high speeds and quickly stop in for a tank of gas, then yes, letting the engine idle for thirty seconds or so is a very good idea.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    that's my read on modern turbos...just ignore cool down unless you have just come off a freeway ramp at 80 mph in 100 degree heat...in other words, extreme situations.
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