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Lexus ES 300/ES 330 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • babs43babs43 Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for the advice everyone. I guess it's supply and demand. I did notice when I walked into the Lexus dealer it was packed! Both Acura and Infiniti dealers were empty. That tells you the more popular car. I'm probably going to wait to purchase my ES 330 around the December holidays. Maybe I'll get a better deal. BUT, if Infiniti is willing to come down a lot on the price of a car, I may be pursuaded.
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    First of all I appreciate the positive criticism. I thought I was going to get verbally beaten in this room. Back to pricing. As far as more profit for me, that is a positive but I believe there is more to selling Lexus than just profit. Myself, being a younger guy, can live on very little. I did well at a good university, so I can be doing a bunch of different things. But I chose this because I enjoy sales, and I enjoy the product. And because of that I am not in it to make a quick buck. Sales is based on building a clientele, and that is how you become successful.

    rbr-You hit it right on the nose. Our customers could go to other dealerships and pay less, but they understand the benefits our dealership has to offer. Valet service for one. The other mentioned dealerships do not offer it. And the ability to show them how and why we are #1 in service in the district. And the Ford comment was because they were talking about fleet sales. And you are correct about Lexus not becoming Toyota. But there is a large difference between what we sell and what Toyota sells. If you look at the other cost cutting highline dealers, they don't have too much more to offer than their sister stores. (Acura, Infiniti)

    atoews- I apologize for making you think I implied buyers are cheap. That is not the case. I know how it is from both sides of the spectrum. And you are correct with other dealers undercutting their competitors. What I meant was rather than looking at price, take a look at everything you are getting. If anyone is familiar with Wegmans, it is the same idea. You pay more for groceries there, but isn't it the most pleasing supermarket to be in? And you rarely come out unsatisfied.
  • alexmishalexmish Member Posts: 47
    Got, what I believe, a very good deal for fully loaded 2004 ES330 (NAVI, VCS, Gold Emblem etc except AVS - the wait for this option is 120 days). The price was about $2K below MSRP (BUT they had it in stock and I also had a trade-in, so you might get a different $ if it needs to be ordered or there is/not a trade-in). Picking it up tonight.

    2 visits to the dealership - on Sat for test drive and last night to negotiate/sign the contract. Even though the place was packed on Sat, Marcus Laurence (the sales rep) was very kind, not pushy, let us drive both ES330 and RX330 (we were not decided whether to get a sedan or an SUV), and very polite and informative - spend 1.5 hours on us even though he knew we were just looking. I would recommend him highly (I did observe other sales reps and was not that impressed).

    One hint - negotiate the price 30 mins before they close for the night !
  • rbrrbr Member Posts: 113
    Ahhhh (smile) ... but you didn't comment on the most intriguing issue ... is $1,000 -- 1,500 a fair markup, in your opinion? You mentioned $4-5,000 under MSRP being a problem, and you implied that selling at invoice is a problem if I recall correctly, but you never really commented on that point. Also, I am interested in whether you think Lexus margins have shrunk since discussions like this one have been occuring online.

    thanks and best wishes.
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    Haha. I feel like Joan of Arc. I don't think my posts have changed anything, but I was just giving folks the view from the other side. And as far as the profit issue, which does not reflect my dealerships ideas, would be $1500 off. We don't try to sell you accessories, warranties, insurances, etc. And you mentioned the dealer gets holdback, service work and such, but on the other hand, you have to include internal charges for loaner cars, valet drivers, parts, equipment, overhead, insurance on all vehicles, etc. I've seen posts for 2-3k off, but I would bet they are not getting the entire package that other dealers can offer.
  • lawyer3lawyer3 Member Posts: 1
    purchased a es330 today, It had a premium package on it which kicked up the price with leather and wood steering wheel, locks and couple of mats $1,000.00 However, my price was still $2,100.00 off of the invoice. I was sort of urged that $1,500 to max of $2,000 was the going rate off msrp. All of this and I received windows tinted as well and delicious basket of goodies. So stick with it folks there is some room to negotiate. sticker was 33,444.00 paid 31,350.00. This was in San Antonio, Texas
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I think you meant to say you got $2,100 off the sticker price, not off the invoice price.

    Enjoy your beautiful new car.
  • gekko2gekko2 Member Posts: 87
    lehigh - While I respect your right/need/want to earn a living selling, I could give a crap about valet service, gourmet coffee and pastries, leather chairs in the waiting room, car wash after service, etc. etc. etc. and all the other Lexus dealer service fluff. I don't need my ego stroked by the dealership. My ego gets stroked when I look at my net worth statement. SO - that's why I don't pay $50+ at the Lexus dealership for an oil change for my ES. I go to the Toyota dealer and they do just as good a job mechanically(if not better), with the same parts/oil and definitely faster and cheaper without the fluff. For the people that DO want all the Lexus fluff, let them pay for all that via the Lexus dealers inflated SERVICE prices. That's why Lexus SERVICE costs so much more (as well it should for all the fluff). But since I don't use or want any of that crap and prefer to take my Lexus to the Toyota dealer for service, let me choose to rightfully NOT pay for that crap via the SALES PRICE of my car. Let me pay for the car invoice cost, plus some reasonable dealer expenses/profit, plus some reasonable salesman's commiss. Let it be a WIN-WIN situation rather than any of us try to be a pig. Pigs get slaughtered. Low price isn't everything, but if you want to charge more than the dealer down the street, you better have more than just fluff to justify the additional cost. Thanks and good luck.
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    First, forget that I'm a salesman for Lexus because I am not trying to sell anything on here or look for sympathy. While I understand your positioning as far as the fluff goes, wouldn't you agree that that is the reason to purchase a luxury vehicle. Most cars today have the same features, comfortable ride, and will get you from point A to point B. The main reason why people move up is to be pampered and not have to worry about salesmen calling everyday, among other things. If you are so happy with everything Toyota has to offer on the service side, why aren't you driving one? Sure there are differences between the two cars, but the ultimate difference is the satisfaction level. If it is the L on the front, those parts can be bought anywhere. But I truly believe you are missing the boat on luxury vehicles. No matter where you purchase your vehicle (even if you pay invoice or whatever) it's a no-brainer to take advantage of what is included with the vehicle.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    I am interested in buying either a used 03 ES 300 or a new 04/05 es330. Has anyone actually test driven both cars back to back. How big is the difference in performance? Your insight would be helpful in my decision making process. Thanks
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I believe the ES 330 does 0-60 in 7.2 seconds vs. 8.1 for the ES 300.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    This discussion is focused on the prices folks have paid and the experiences they had in purchasing their new ES 300 or ES 330.

    Lehighlexus and gekko2, your conversation is better placed in any of several discussions on our Smart Shopper board. And motownusa, you should drop by the ongoing Lexus ES 300 and Lexus ES 330 discussions to check out what folks have to say about each of these vehicles.

    The excellent search features on the left side of the page are often overlooked. They will help locate the best place to find helpful and relevant information.

    Hope this is helpful - as always, feel free to email me if I can help any of you find anything in the Town Hall.
  • jragostajragosta Member Posts: 26
    Gekko2 claims to be selling Lexuses, but then makes a statement:
    "Most cars today have the same features, comfortable ride, and will get you from point A to point B. The main reason why people move up is to be pampered and not have to worry about salesmen calling everyday, among other things. If you are so happy with everything Toyota has to offer on the service side, why aren't you driving one? "

    Sorry, pal, but that's sure not why I bought a Lexus - nor anyone else I know.

    I bought my Lexus because it's the most quiet, luxurious. smoothest riding car out there. Period. The same is true of most people I know. If you're selling Lexus over Toyota simply on the basis of dealer service, you need to find another line of work.
  • gekko2gekko2 Member Posts: 87
    jragosta - you're mixing me up with 'Lehighlexus'.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    I think for the most part the Camry and the ES are the same. They share the same engine same transmission and both cars offer a very smooth quiet ride. The ES is just a tad quieter because it has more sound deadening materials. The only extra things you get with the ES is the outstanding Mark Levinson sound system and the Variable Adaptive Suspension. If you choose a fully loaded Camry XLE V6 you are getting about 95% of the ES. The reasons many people buy the ES over the Camry is that it is built in Japan and therefore has better build quality and the customer service department is lot more freindler.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Again, folks, this is not the right place for these comments. See my post pat Oct 24, 2003 3:45pm for some links, and/or use the search features on the left side of the page for more appropriate discussions.

    As I noted in that post I just linked, the purpose of this discussion is to share prices paid and actual purchasing experiences with either the ES 300 or ES 330.

    Let's regroup in a more appropriate discussion and let this one get back on track.

    Thanks!
  • bradley_dillerbradley_diller Member Posts: 1
    A dealer stated to me that the purchase of the navigation system on the 2004 ES330 is bundled with the full set of options Lexus offers - audio, AVS, Audio Package, etc; in other words, the navigation system cannot be purchased as a separate option. Is this really true?
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    And then I'm done talking about it. You are exactly right in what I said although you could have had the others refer to my comment four posts above. Though I respect your questioning my work, I suggest you read it again. I said all cars have a comfortable ride. I did not say the ride was the same, but that they were both comfortable. With the exception of a few features, they are available on both the Toyota and the Lexus. And as you probably know, they both get you from point A to point B. (Although Lexus gets you there more often ie JD Power) And the salesmen part was one example. I am not going to knock Toyota because they make a good product. If it wasn't, the Camry would not be one of the top selling vehicles year in and year out. And, as I said before, service and satisfaction are a main reason (not the only reason) that people move up. So, thank you for your consideration jragosta. I was doing fine before your comment and I'm sure I will still be successful after it. And on a side note, they are building the RX330 in Canada now, but it is operating with as much quality as the Japan plant.
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    seeing that they have done an excellent job with this website and they deserve to say what is and what isn't. For buying experience (my two cents and not including my dealership for what would be thought as biased reasons) there are two dealers that do a really good job, Rahal and Thompson. If you are in the PA, NJ, and NY area, of course I want you to check out my dealership. But the other aforementioned dealerships do a good job in their own right.
  • locomolocomo Member Posts: 29
    I can get a '93 ES300 with 91,000 miles in good shape for $7000. Is it a pretty good deal?
    Loco
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    "I bought my Lexus because it's the most quiet, luxurious. smoothest riding car out there. Period. The same is true of most people I know. If you're selling Lexus over Toyota simply on the basis of dealer service, you need to find another line of work. "

    - Exactly. Compare a Camry vs. an ES330, and the two cars seem to be worlds apart in refinement, ride quality, and quietness.
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    the difference between the two. I did not feel the need to sell the product, seeing that most people understand the difference between Lexus and Toyota. Not everyone gets to experience the service and satisfaction which is part of the buying experience. That is what I was referring to. And I'm sure there were people that told the founders of Dell and Gateway to find another line of work too. (Take a guess at why people pay more for their computers). If you want to continue this, I wouldn't mind moving it to the other ES330 room.
  • luegoluego Member Posts: 13
    Well said. You are stating your opinion and I think you're doing fine.
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    And I hope noone is taking personal offense to this. It's a major topic and nothing livens the day like a little heated discussion.
  • babs43babs43 Member Posts: 13
    I'm going to test drive the 2004 ES 330 again this weekend a give it another look before I buy. I previously got a price of $33,700, which turned out to be $1500 off sticker just like this board has previously experienced. Can I expect to get $2,000 off the sticker on one with ML and Navi? Thanks for the help! Also looking at the 2003 M45 too! Trying to make a decision.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    The ES330 and the M45. I am trying to help a friend look for a car in the near future. He currently has an ES300 and loves it, but the car will soon be over 100K miles, and he will be looking to replace it.

    Initially, he liked the TL-S due to its value compared with the ES300 (that and back in '02 there wasn't any discounting on the ES300). With the new TL being more expensive than the previous one, and with discounting on the ES330, he probably would lean towards the ES330 between the 2.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Absolutely do NOT get the M45. I admit I'm biased because I have a 2002 ES 300. But the ES is a great car and I highly recommend it.

    I noticed you are like me in that you only purchase your cars (don't lease). That is one of the reasons to avoid the M45:

    1. Terrible resale value on Infinitis.
    2. The M45 is being completely redone next year - your car will be outdated real fast. Nissan confirmed the Fuga shown at the Tokyo Auto Show will arrive in 2004 as the next M45.
    3. The fact that you can get $10,000 discounts on the M45 should tell you something - nobody wants this car (simple supply and demand). It sells roughly 300 a month vs. the ES 330 at about 5000 a month. Now, sales shouldn't dictate your purchase, and the M45 is well built, but when a new car sells as poorly as the M45 I'd stay away.
  • gekko2gekko2 Member Posts: 87
    How does this simple rule of thumb formula look?

    (Edmunds Invoice Price - Mfg. Incentives) x 1.02 Dealer Fat = Fair Price
  • lexusrocklexusrock Member Posts: 74
    How do you know how much the Mfg. Incentives is. I don't think dealers'd admit to that as easily as invoice prices.

    The formula is not bad on paper for buyers, but only if dealers are willing, and all buyers insist so, ala, supply and demand again. Good luck tho!
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    Normally does not include the marketing assesment on the true invoice. And as much as you or I don't believe we should pay it, they won't give it to you for free. And what you are asking for is 2% above invoice, which chances are you will not get that on a new 04 Lexus
  • lexusrocklexusrock Member Posts: 74
    lehighlexus, glad to have one 'on the other side' on board. Here's a question for you. I often heard people say that they bought a car below invoice. In fact, one'd get a ES300, esp. the one w/o NAV/ML, > $1K below invoice, in 2003. Are dealers willing to lose money selling the car (I doubt), or the invoice price we see on internet is more than the real price you paid to Lexus, or there's some mfg incentives of offset any 'loss'. Mind sharing the insight?
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    Usually when a dealer is willing to let a car go for below invoice, it is because there are dealer incentives or cash-back offers from the manufacturer.
  • lexusrocklexusrock Member Posts: 74
    what is that dealer incentives or cash-back offers from the manufacturer for the car you are buying? Where can we get that?
  • babs43babs43 Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for your opinions on the ES 330. I do realize that Lexus is a lot more popular than Infiniti. No doubt about it. BUT, I do believe both cars are great quality.

    I see that Lexus is not giving as much off as Infiniti, because they're just more popular. And I do know about the Lexus holding its value much better.

    BUT...I buy and keep my cars 8-10 years. I'm not that concerned about what's the most popular car, but what I like.

    I test drove the 2004 Acura TL after I read a lot about it, and loved the value and the features it had. I just didn't love the car.

    The ES 330 is great, but I'm not nuts about the stereo and the speed is lacking. I do love the styling and interior.

    The M45 is great also, and I really like the stereo and the speed of it, although you can't beat the ES 330 interior.

    I don't like the fact that the ES 330 is "just like a camry". I do like the fact that the M45 is different than most cars on the road.

    So, that's my take on it! I just wish I could get the ES 330 with the better stereo without paying the $3,000 more to get it.

    Thanks again for all the advice!
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    "what is that dealer incentives or cash-back offers from the manufacturer for the car you are buying? Where can we get that? "

    - Manufacturers will offer end-of-year cash-back and dealer incentives. On something like a new Lexus (2004) I doubt there will be any of these items to move prices close to or below invoice. Now if you wanted a nice Oldsmobile...........
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    I appreciate the input. In terms of speed, the ES330 is reported here as capable of 0-60 at 7.2 seconds, while the M45 is capable at 0-60 at 5.7 seconds per C&D. Big difference.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Unless you are Mario Andretti, do you really need to 0-60 in 5.7 seconds. I mean o-60 time of 7.2 seconds is more than enough in everyday situation.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    The ES 330 is NOT just a Camry. It is built on the Camry platform. That's it. They share about 15-20% of their parts, nearly all of which cannot be seen or touched. Drive the two and you see a difference (although the Camry is a great car).

    No different than the Jaguar X-Type/Ford Mondeo, Jaguar S-Type/Lincoln LS, Volkswagon Passat/Audi A4, VW Toureg/Porsche Cayenne, Cadillac XLR/Corvette, etc. Heck, the Chrysler Crossfire gets 40% of its parts from Mercedes. Oh well, maybe this is an argument for another time.
  • dubedube Member Posts: 2
    I have been trying to get the right price for a LEXUS ES330

    Good prices appear on many web sites , but when it comes to have a dealer sell you a car at that price it is nearly impossible.

    Can anyone help me to at least obtain a real quote from a recognized dealer that will be the same or lower than the prices obtained through the various web sites

    Many thanks
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    what's the "right price" ???
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Everybody's got their own buying style. You might wanna read this to see if it's something that could work for you:
    "Hey guys, Bobst actually buys a car !!!" Oct 28, 2003 10:59am
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    The one you see on most websites does not take into account the marketing assessment on every invoice. It is usually 6oo to 700 more than what you see. But as far as getting an 03 for 1k less, it is probably one of three things.
    1.It was a demo with a bunch of miles (they are more likely to take a loss on a year old car with miles on it.)
    2.It was a preowned car. (Many dealers can buy cars directly from Lexus that were used by their distridt reps and such.)
    3.They are BS'ing you.

    You usually won't find incentives and rebates on Lexus products, but they can be found on this website or any other car site
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    This is my first lease (01 ES300) and it ends in January. I assume leases and the resulting sales tax is treated differently state to state, but in Texas the sales tax (all $1950 on my $30k '01) was rolled into the the 36mo. least payments. I have lately discovered if I choose to keep the car by paying off the residual, I get to give the governor another $1300, when I change ownership from Lexus Financial to me.
        This may be an odd quirk in Texas, but it's something to consider for the folks on this board who clearly watch the bottom line. I've heard sales tax on leases in many states is paid on a monthly basis which means you only pay tax only on the part of the car you use; but for those who lease in Texas, be aware of the nice deal our state comptroller gets collecting sales tax twice from the same driver for the same car. For me it will amount to $3250 on a $30k vehicle.
  • gekko2gekko2 Member Posts: 87
    I typically like to buy my cars a couple of years old so I don't get the big hit on the first couple years of depreciation. However, I'm seeing CPO 2002 ES's with ~20k miles going for about $30K! - Yet a new comparably equiped 2004 ES330 is going for about $32K. For a couple grand more, it makes sense to go new. BUT - what the hell is going on? Why is there not more of a price differential? I know that Lexus's hold their value but I think there should be more of a disparity.
  • jragostajragosta Member Posts: 26
    There are a number of services that guarantee a given price. For example, if you're a Sam's Club member, they negotiate the price with dealers in advance. When you get a price from them, the dealer has to honor it. The disadvantage is that their coverage is spotty. There were no dealers in my area.

    My favorite is carbargains.net. They gave me a list of 5 dealers and a good price (better than I'd have gotten on my own). It turns out that a dealer located 300 miles away had a better price than my local dealer - but the local dealer honored it, anyway. The only downside is that it will cost you $200 to use carbargains.

    Good luck.
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    What kind of car did you get that this carbargains saved you over $200 more than you could have negotiated yourself?
  • jragostajragosta Member Posts: 26
    I was negotiating with my dealer on a Lexus ES300. They were willing to give me about $1000 over invoice. I hit Carbagains and found a dealer 300 miles away who was $1000 UNDER invoice (closing out the old models).

    At that point, I had decided I wanted the ES330, anyway. This was in early August before the cars had even shipped from Japan. My local dealer told me that they were list price only and wouldn't budge - until he found out that I was using Carbargains. He immediately gave me $1000 under list. I managed to get him to drop that $500 more.

    Now, I can't say that Carbargains would save everyone money. But I'm probably an average negotiator and it saved me a bundle. If you're a great negotiator, it might not save you much. It will, however, save you a lot of time running from one dealer to the next.

    Note, however, that you might do as well with AAA or Sam's Club or Autobytel without spending anything. Unfortunately, none of those had any dealers in my area, so I can't be sure.
  • masspectormasspector Member Posts: 509
    thanks for the info. Can you get any idea of the carbargains prices before paying your $200?

    "until he found out that I was using Carbargains." Sounds like a good negotiation tool if you can get a handle on what their prices would be.

    I agree with you about the buying clubs not having good coverage. I am in a major metro area and they did not have an infiniti dealer in my state at all.
  • lehighlexuslehighlexus Member Posts: 94
    Would be $35k. You could get one for the 32-33 range, but you can also talk the price down on the CPO as well. It's about a $5k difference.
This discussion has been closed.