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Ford Mustang (2005 and Newer)

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  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Not to get too off topic, but tell me a new Camaro with a 1968-1969 look wouldn't be awesome? Mustang's gonna need a competitor... : )
  • my last commandment is to love one another and bring back the camaro! absolutely!! i love the 1968 SS/RS with the hidden headlights (i luv all the '68-'69s really) and want to see GM bring back something along those lines. and bring back the stripes and crazy colours too. now if only dodge would build that 1999 concept charger with the supercharged hybrid engine, we'd be set for a new millenium modern muscle showdown: mustang vs camaro vs charger. yee ha!!!!!
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,600
    25th anniversary badge and gluing it to the dash of my '86 5.0 convertible just to remind me it was a Mustang.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • Some whine about the 2005 looking "too retro". Well, the 05 makes the 1987-93's look like boring Tempos. Sure they were fast, but the bodies were poorly made and are now even more dated looking.

    Better it have classic lines, than boring "any car" looks.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    But *is* it better for a car to have "classic" (ie "done before) lines than something new?

    After all, the original Mustang wasn't a "modern version" of a 1940s/1950s coupe...it was something very very different.

    I always liked the purposeful look of the Foxes...and the styling was very much a product of the age, as with pretty much every Mustang before it. Still think they look good myself...
  • If it looked "new", then by 2007-9, it would be called "outdated", and "looks like every other car".
  • kenm8kenm8 Posts: 71
    Perhaps the 65-69 Mustang fastback is a “timeless design” in that it has endured the test of time favorably. The 05 model is an evolution of that design. Consider all versions from 70 to 2004 as not of that lineage. Notice how the current Porsche 911 body has evolved year by year and is connected to the original 911 of the 1960s? Most people would say that the 911 is an elegant and a timeless design. Ford is wise to link the 05 Stang back to the original design. In contrast, would Pontiac/GM resurrect the Pontiac Aztek design on a vehicle 40 years from now?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    "In contrast, would Pontiac/GM resurrect the Pontiac Aztek design on a vehicle 40 years from now?"

    I'm betting that they would. :)
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    "If it looked "new", then by 2007-9, it would be called "outdated", and "looks like every other car".

    I'm not sure...by that logic, innovation in style should be shunned, and there's the arbitrary decision that Mustang design will *never* be better than in the mid-1960s. It may well not be, but we don't know and will never find out if new designs aren't tried.

    And apply that to the car industry generally, and we'd all be driving around in cars that look like Hudsons right now.

    And I've not heard people generally complaining about the Fox bodies "looking like every other car" available at the time. In fact, younger Mustang fans who were kids in the 1980s idolize the Foxes, as to them, that's what a Mustang should look like.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    the 911 isn't really the best example in this case I think...

    The market for 911s is significantly smaller than for Mustangs, and a lot more finicky. 911 devotees (I'm one) are very resistant to change...the change to a liquid-cooled engine in 1999 is still a touchy subject, as is the new gauge cluster and (gasp!) the addition of cupholders. So Porsche has to move veeerry slowly by necessity.

    But the Mustang caters has to a much much broader audience, if only to continue its production. So changes in design to accomodate the times (and sell to the mood at the time) are necessary, even if those changes are later derided by so-called "purists" (case in point: the Mustang II).

    And to say that Mustangs from 1970 to 2004 aren't in the same lineage as the original is, well, controversial to say the least (in fact, the Mustang II in 1974 was an attempt to get back to the original concept).
  • They idolize the Fox cars since they were fast and cheap. Never were into their looks. In fact, they brag about enigne mods and all of them look the same with black paint and Cobra R rims. Hardly "innovative" looking.

    We all know how Ford tried to appease the "futurists" by making the 80's FWD (which was supposed to on be all cars by 2000) Probe the "New Generation Mustang". Look where it is now, discontinued. If they made an "innovative, futuristic" design, they would have to change it every 2 years, costing way too much. Since the "style critics" in the media call anything over 2 years old, "dated".

    Look at how well (NOT) the current Celica and Eclipse are selling, to see how long trendy styling lasts.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Original Mustangs were thought of as fast and cheap too. And the chunky, angular looks of the Foxes appeal to plenty of people beyond the punk-racer crowd. I love a well-taken care of Fox.

    You have to remember demography as well here. One reason why the 1960s Mustangs are so sought after is because baby boomers, who remember them fondly growing up now have the cash, space, etc. to pick them up.

    I agree re the Probe, but there's a fine line between trying to be trendy and trying to move forward with styling.

    But the Probe died as did a lot of other sportscoupes when SUVs became the thing to have among young buyers. It wasn't a rejection of styling, but rather a shift to another type of vehicle...

    I think the Celica isn't selling well because it's quite expensive for what you get, performance-wise. I like the styling of the regular Celica (which is actually reminiscent of 1960s GT racercars)...but the "aero kit" add-on that everyone buys is pretty ugly IMO.
  • Mustangs have to sell to more than the Fox 5.0 notchback drag racer crowd to be profitable. (They buy mostly used cars to fix up anyway)

    Forgotten is how the 1990-93 Mustangs sold poorly compared to the SN95's. 1994 sales went over 100K for the first time since 1979 or so.
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Very true...I think the SN95 was a great realization by Ford of the market at the time (SUVs were becoming huge and sports coupes had to have *something* unique about them to keep up in the market), and what it had to do to keep people buying Mustangs.

    It was also good timing, in that retro was also becoming big at that time, likely because the main buying segment, the boomers, now had disposable cash to buy the kind of stuff that reminded them of the cars available they were young. Ford wisely played to that (though Gen-Xers like me liked it too!)
  • a good design is a good design, regardless of when it was penned. the '65-'66, and the '67-'68 mustang fastback had excellent proportions that still capture the imagination to this day.

    i don't suppose any of you are architects, but there is something called the "golden rule" which is seen in landmark buildings and in art masterpieces, whereby nearly all great works of art are shown to have the same mathematical ratio in space and design. the spiralling nautilus shell has this exact same ratio in its natural configuration, hinting that beauty is a divine creation which is manifest all around us.

    as far as the 2005 mustang goes, it's a pleasant return to a winning formula, but compared to the original '65-'68 designs, the rear overhang is kinda too long, killing that perfect pleasing-to-the-eye ratio and proportion, probably due to federal safety and pragmatic considerations.all in all, i will probably buy one in 2006. cheers!
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Interesting, the "father" of the Mustang Lee Iaococca HATED the 1968 and up design...he called them "fat pigs" : )

    I think all of this discussion points to what makes the Mustang so interesting to so many people...no other American car (aside from the Vette) has as much continuous heritage to pour over and debate. People really get worked up about Mustangs, even their detractors...

    (Have you noticed that Mustangs have become *the* mid-level performance benchmark? Most car performance on the street is discussed in terms of a car being faster or slower than a Mustang, esp. with the "import tuner" crowd - Gotta love that kind of noteriety!)
  • i can see why iaccocca hated the second gen mustang--in comparison to the original fastback (my preference) it WAS bigger and fatter. still, it was a nice design, just not as sleek and simple as the original. i'm still gonna buy one in 2006
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    My favorite has always been the 1969-1970 Larry Sinoda design; more menacing than the original, not as bulky/ungainly as what came next.

    1968 design also cool, if only because of McQueen's connection with it. : )
  • Back in the 60's annual styling change was required. So, the 67+ was "change for sake of change".

    Imagine if the 65 styling lasted as long as the 79. It would have looked the same until 1980!
  • kenm8kenm8 Posts: 71
    Proportions, proportions

    Anyone remember the Parthenon? The 65-68 fastback had all the correct proportions. Would Bullit have owned/driven any of the later versions of the Stang? Can you imagine Frank chasing the bad guys (in Bullit 2?) in a green Mustang II?
  • only if the bad guys were driving away in a black dodge shelby II :P
  • fdthirdfdthird Posts: 352
    I hear what a lot of you are saying about the "retro" look of the 2005 but I think that what Ford is doing is just what's happened a lot during the Mustang's life. The 67-68 was radically different from the 65-66 but there were the Mustang styling cues and I don't think a 67 Mustang could ever be thought to be anything but a Mustang. Same for the 69 thru 73...each was different but still obviously a Mustang. Even the Mustang II from 74-78...a very different car but still obviously a Mustang. The same could be said for the Mustang's cousin from 67-73 the Cougar.

    Now, if you remember where we were in 1979 it was the age of the "European" style. The Granada was a Ford "Mercedes". The sports type cars were also Euro based. I had a Capri in 1979 (Merc version of the Mustang) and that was obviously the styling direction. Now, the '88 Mustang convert that I had was an extension of that '79 and through the end of the Fox bodied cars we were working with that basic '79 Euro design idea.

    When the SN95 models came out, I think rather than retro Ford was just getting back to what had been the Mustang's heritage...variations of some very basic original themes (Do you remember the TV ads that morphed back and forth between a classic Mustang and a new one to show the heritage looks?).

    My 2000 Mustang convert is not really a retro look, but rather just a Mustang that contains many of those heritage touches. The running house in the coral (finally the horse was back to the Mustang after years of being put out to pasture), the triple segment tail lights, the double cove dash treatment, the side "C" look, and the simulated vents in the rear quarters - these are all classic Mustang elements and true to its original heritage they were re-incorporated in the design.

    I think the 2005 carries that even further but honestly I really don't think this is new ground for Ford. As someone who has loved the Mustang since it first debuted on TV the night before the March, 1964 intro date I like what I've seen of the 2005. I can't wait to (1) see one in the flesh and (2) see what the convertible looks like when they roll it out.

    Put aside a red 2007 or 2008 when its time to replace my 2000!
  • The Mustang is one of a very short list of American vehicles I would consider, and the only one that might sticker south of $30k.

    I may not be a true car nut, as I would never actually want to own any pre-90's car, since the maintainance and lack of safety engineering would scare me a bit too much. I like "retro meets modern" as a concept...bring back to life the best of yesteryear and infuse it with the best of now.

    I think current design trends are just ugly derivative styling attempts anyways. The BMWs are slipping. GM hasn't built a good looking car in 40 years (Cadillac's new stylings are not grabbing me.) Chrysler's best looking cars are just a little too kitsche for me. The PT Cruiser? The Prowler? The Crossfire? At least most Chryslers have a look...not just rounded corners on a dull 3-box chassis.

    The new Mustang looks great, so far. I think Mustang will benefit greatly from this redesign, as will Ford. Ford is doing what Mazda has already started - redesigning their entire lineup into a cohesive theme.

    I think the redesign is both classic and contemporary. Only the Mustang could pull off that look without everyone screaming foul, and it is a clearly great looking car.
  • Scarlettstang, I've moderated my position on jingoism, since I recently found myself complaining about the Germans requiring Chrysler to redesign their upcoming (now current) LX cars to accommodate Mercedes suspension parts. I fear the Germans' dictatorial rule of their American subsidiary will wreck Chrysler.

    Anyway, the point being, I am slightly more understanding of your sentiment regarding the GTO, although I still think it's a great car. I prefer the name Monaro (and it looks way better without the wing).

    You did mention that I was a bit off on Ford history: I'm usually pretty encyclopedic about car stuff, so I'd be interested to know what I was misguided about. (I can't even remember my post anymore. :)

    6thBeatle:

    I know what you mean about your keyboard and amp. Whether I get the GTO or Mustang, I'm going to have to re-learn how to cram a drum kit in a sporty two-door. (Current car is a '97 Avenger ES, which can actually fit my rather large kit [Bass drum, two snares, five toms and a half dozen or more cymbals].)
  • i hear ya. if i go for the mustang, i'll probably have to trade my 65 watt fender deville amp for a little 15 watt blues junior just so i can get all my other gear inside. and here i was thinking about getting a dog...

    then again, there's always the hemi magnum, but i'm not too impressed by the interior, kinda cheap lookin. the GTO and mustang kick some serious as far as cool interiors go.
  • I hate to say it, but I'm not much on the Magnum myself. I love the Hemi engine, which is an amazing engine (check out Popular Hotrodding for an article on just HOW GOOD the Hemi is (I'd put the link in, but they have a message forum).

    The interior is nice, but the plastic seems a bit lower grade. The exterior just doesn't do much, and you can't see out the bloody windows! Maybe you can find an 80's vintage Ford Country Squire -- I've had two of them, and they were great, other than the stupid 302 engine, with it's notorious oil pump problems.

    But if you get an old wagon, you don't have to worry about gouging up the interior of your Mustang (or GTO). Secondly, you can drive it during the winter too. Where in Canada are you from? I'm in Buffalo, NY... two hours from Toronto. It's a nice idea to have a winter car.
  • vancouver, three hours north of seattle. it rains a lot here (oct-april), so a RWD car like the mustang or GTO is actually not the best choice for a year round car, being pretty hairy to drive in the wet. also, i snowboard, so traction is an issue going up the mountains.

    least i don't have to worry about snow in the city much during the winter. this year was pretty unusual--we had two weeks of snow on the ground before it all got washed away by the rain. had to go buy a snow shovel, but everyone was sold out!

    lately i've been thinking of just getting something like a mazda 6 wagon as an everyday driver, because i've already got a '65 dodge for the summer. still, i know if i get a 6, i'll get that empty feeling inside everytime a new mustang GT goes by.
  • bxd20bxd20 Posts: 68
    Saw the 05 Mustang at the Cleveland Auto Show. Looked great, people were crowding around the turntable.

    Things I learned:
    0 to 60 in 5.2
    1/4 mile in 13.9.
    Trunk: 12.5 cu ft.
    52/48 weight distribution.
    From what I could tell the wheels were 17". C&D mentioned 18" option but maybe that idea got canned because I asked the guy about the options list and he didn't seem to think so. Doesn't matter too much, they fill in the wheel wells nicely the size they are.
    300 hp, 315 lb ft torque. 80% of torque available at 1,000 rpms. The guy said you'll peel into 1st and 2nd and then chirp into 3rd.
    Extra 150 pounds added to rear end to strengthen it.
    Absolutely loaded, $29,999 as a coupe. That has two tone leather, automatic, and the latest Mach (1200? I forget) stereo. As shown, it was a fairly basic GT, with leather, around $26,xxx.

    I'm excited. Keep the price down and no embarassing recalls Ford and you'll have a winner.

    Brian
  • I've seen where the 18" wheels are delayed for 6 months from the options list.
  • lt19c1lt19c1 Posts: 2
    Any word from Ford if they will again offer a Special Service Mustang?

    Thanks.

    Lloyd
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