Ford Mustang (2005 and Newer)

bamabm · March 2005

Thank's for the info! Check with different dealer today & they found one like I ordered so they are trying to get for me. Dealer doesn't want to let it go but the dealer I went to happens to have about 7 V-6 convertibles on the lot so maybe he will have some leverage. They actually had a GT convertible today also (already sold). Will lose X-plan discount at other dealer unless I wait till 06.

graphicguy · March 2005

Just saw an article in the Detroit News stating that the "Zeta" platform has been cancelled by Bob Lutz. That was the platform for the '07 GTO. So, the GTO is, again....dead after '06 (not a certainty that they'll even come out with an '06). That's a shame. The GTO was on my short list of cars and my 2nd choice after the Mustang GT.

GM needs to get their act together.

liveoakie · March 2005

If you let your high school daughter take a car like that out,I dont mean no disrespect, but you are a moron IMHO!!!

lostwrench · March 2005

My child is an honor student too. "Yes, your honor". "No, your honor".

tayl0rd · March 2005

Sounds like you've done a great job raising your daughter, bamabm, and I commend you for that!

However, back in my school days, I saw more than a few female honor students happily give away their "modesty" on prom night to the so-called special one. After which, their reputations went down the drain faster than liquid Draino. You can NEVER rest on your laurels with kids, now more than ever.

I know you love and trust your daughter but, as a father, I'd be remiss not to ask you to rethink your decision. Try to remember when you and/or your friends were teenagers. Teenage boys will try every trick in the book to get "the prize," and most of us know that teenage girls are fairly easily coerced.

Anyway, back to cars...

Does anybody have any guesses as to what features will be added in the future for this generation Mustang? I predict power passenger seat, lumbar support for the passenger seat, power recline, and dual zone climate control. New colors are a given. I also predict body colored and folding rearview mirrors. And in true Ford fashion, the GT won't see any power increases until the next generation.

rorr · March 2005

"And in true Ford fashion, the GT won't see any power increases until the next generation."

Huh?

The old 5.0 302 V8 in the old Fox-body cars (and first couple of years of the SN93 cars) went through 2-3 rounds of power increases. And the SOHC 4.6l unit went through at least 1 power increase in the last generation.

And there's always the SVT Cobra cars which (should) answer any other demands for increased power in a Mustang.

akirby · March 2005

Will be called the Shelby GT500 and should put out around 450 hp. Should be unveiled at the NY auto show tomorrow. Apparently there won't be a 2007 Cobra.

tayl0rd · March 2005

What power increase did the previous GT have? As far as I know, it had the same 260HP from '99 to '04.

jae5 · March 2005

Akirby,

I read that as well. Will be exciting to see the differences in the GT and the GT500. Wonder if it'll have the sequential taillight treatments, side scoops and the like.

Also am wondering if the GT500 will be more in line with the '65 model (meaning bare bones, ruff, tuff and rowdy) or the luxo 68 - 70 models. And if SVT will be responsible for the "special editions" like the Mach I, Boss, or "Bullit". Anything except those Mustang II King Cobras would pretty much be o.k.

As a side note, do you, or anyone else on the board, think Ford will provide an LX V8 type model like those on the Fox-platform (LX 5.0)? Those were kick-[non-permissible content removed], all the power and essentials of the GT but without the extra stuff you didn't need.

jae5 · March 2005

The 260hp was the power increase on the SN-95 (Fox+4) platform. Believe the original rating was 220 when the 4.6s were put in for 96, 97?. The Bullit had 265. But you're right, considering the 4.6 was stuck at the 190 - 210 rating for about ten years pretty much sucked. Would still rather have the 5-liter pushrod or the 5.8 Windsor over the 4.6 sohc, dohc.

Could include the Cobras too: 305, 320 (or 270 - 280 realistic due to the exhaust, flash in the intake during the first run of the IRS Cobras), and 390. That 390 can be upped by a lot just by flashing the ECM and swapping out the pulley.

Not sure about the torque figures as these hp numbers are off the top of my head. Did I miss any?

rorr · March 2005

"What power increase did the previous GT have? As far as I know, it had the same 260HP from '99 to '04."

Correct. But I don't think you can look at a 5-year period from a single generation and make the claim that "in true Ford fashion, the GT won't see any power increases until the next generation."

There hasn't been a SINGLE generation of Mustang which did not see significant power increases within that generation (with the possible exception of the Mustang II cars sold from '74 through '78.....I've blotted those travesties from my consciousness).

The SN93 cars went from 215hp in the '94 cars (5.0 for '94 and '95) to 215hp 4.6 ('96 and '97) to 225hp ('98) to 260hp ('99 to '04). BTW-the 4.6 liter was NEVER rated at 190-210 in the Mustang and was only at the lower 215hp rating for TWO years.

The previous Fox-body cars saw an even more impressive bump in hp over the course of that generation from '79 to '93, from 140hp in a 2bbl 302 in 1979 to 225hp in the EFI models from 1987 to 1993 (rated at 205hp in 1993 for insurance purposes). What "true Ford fashion" are you referring too?

tayl0rd · March 2005

For the record, I wasn't the one who said the 4.6 was ever rated at 190HP.

The "fashion" I'm referring to is the same 225HP from 87 to 93. The new generation in 94 and 95 had the same 5.0 engine with the same 225HP, although rated at 215HP. Then there was a REDUCTION in power when the 4.6 was dropped in for 96 (rated or not). Had it not been for the uproar from Mustang enthusiasts, it would've still coasted along on that 215HP up to the 99 model. With the "New Edge" generation Mustangs, the 4.6 was bumped up to 260HP where it stayed until the new generation. Keep in mind I'm talking about the GT, not the spinoff, special models.

Personally, I don't consider the 94-95 to be the same generation as the 96-98 because of the subtle design differences and, most importantly, they didn't have the 4.6 engine.

rorr · March 2005

"For the record, I wasn't the one who said the 4.6 was ever rated at 190HP."

Correct. Sometimes, I'm too lazy to respond to multiple erroneous posts with multiple replies. So I tried to get it all in one.

And for the record, the 5.0 in the '94 and '95 Mustangs was not the same as the 5.0 unit in the earlier Mustangs (less under-the-hood room required a more restrictive intake manifold, therefore, the lower power rating).

jae5 · March 2005

NEVER said the MUSTANG was rated at 190 - 210 when it used the 4.6. The statement was to the fact that when the 4.6 was intor'd in 91 it only had 190hp. Then a couple years later it had 210 with dual exhaust, but kept it's 190 rating with single exhaust.

jae5 · March 2005

How was the 190hp rating erroneous? If I had stated the motor was rated at 190hp in the Mustang, then that would have been incorrect. But sorry, didn't state that. The part of the statement about it being out for ten years, as well as the motor not being placed in the SN-95, not SN93, platform until '96 should have given you a clue.

Seems like you are too lazy. ;}

rorr · March 2005

"But you're right, considering the 4.6 was stuck at the 190 - 210 rating for about ten years pretty much sucked."

Well, considering this is the MUSTANG forum, I understandably made the assumption you were referring to the 4.6l application IN THE MUSTANG.

My mistake. I'll have to practice my mind-reading skills.

jae5 · March 2005

Do that, because I knew you where talking the SN95 when you typed SN93. ;}

rorr · March 2005

I don't suppose you could give lessons over the internet?

Wait....I think I'm picking something up.....looks like a nasty one from tayl0rd.....

graphicguy · March 2005

Are we splitting hairs over minutiae here?

rorr · March 2005

Does it matter? No, not really.

Splitting hairs over minutiae? Well, this IS the Townhall. Ever seen any of the debates over in the various minivan threads? Talk about splitting hairs over minutiae......

I just couldn't let the insinuation slide that Ford does not increase power output within any particular generation and that if one wants more power, they must wait for the next 'generation' to come. IMO, Ford has a history of doing exactly the opposite: as they go deeper and deeper into the life cycle of one particular generation, they progressively increase power output to keep interest (sales) up. This can be seen clearly in the 1st generation ('64 to '73), 3rd generation ('79 to '93), and 4th generation ('94 to '04). Each generation saw more and more power available in the mainstream (GT) vehicle. To a lesser extent, this is also true of the Mustang II generation ('74 to '78).

I suppose that if one wants to define "generation" as a period of time in which there is one motor available (4.6l V8), at one power rating (260hp), then it would be correct to say that one must wait for the next "generation" for more power.

graphicguy · March 2005

"Ever seen any of the debates over in the various minivan threads? Talk about splitting hairs over minutiae......"

LOL! That's funny...soccer Mom's splitting hairs over minivans.......

jae5 · March 2005

For the right fee, anything can be done over the internet, haha!!

But really, it was interesting testing each others memory and knowledge of the hp ratings of the fox- and SN-95/Fox+4 platforms. I surprised myself by how much I remembered. One last thing, then I'll drop it.

What was really interesting about the ratings and engines was that the autos were derated to 220 though many didn't know. Also, the 205 re-rating wasn't for insurance, but from Ford using newer SAE J-????? specification testing procedures (can't remember the exact j-spec number). Though they were using net rating, IIFC there was something different about the exact methods used.

And yes, the 5-liter in the SN-95 was different, used an intake something like those on the Cougar/T-Bird. Also think the heads were different as well, not sure if they were the GT40-P or the ET7E-heads. Gone were the good stuff too, the forged pistons and the like.

Anyway, again the back-and-forth was kind of interesting, but back to the 2005 Mustang.

rorr · March 2005

Huh. I guess it's true you can learn something new everyday (re: the 205-hp re-rating for the '93 302). I did know the engines in the '93 were exactly the same as the previous few years but had always been told they were re-rated for 'insurance' purposes.

Knew the intake on the 302 was different for the SN93, uh, SN-95 models ('94 and '95); wouldn't be surprised if the heads were different too.

Back to the current generation; any hard data on the powertrain for the new Shelby Mustang? All I've heard is the output is supposed to be around 450hp, but I don't know anything beyond that.

graphicguy · March 2005

They just released pics and stats on the GT500 today.

Somewhere between 450HP and 500 HP. It's got a blown 5.4 motor. 6-speed tranny. All leather interior (including dash and doors). Under $40K and performance predicted to be a "vette killer".

PICs here.....

http://planetmustang.com/svtshelbygt500cobra/

rorr · March 2005

Lordy, lordy, lordy.

All that thing needs is "GT500" graphics along the door sills and sequential turn signals in the taillights.

I want one, screw the dinky back seat, kids can ride in the Odyssey.......

edit: the thing DOES have "GT500" along the door sills. Now, if they'll just paint'em in Guardsman Blue with the white stripes....

esbrock · March 2005

Some of the pix of the GT500 make it look like it has HID headlights. Is there a conversion kit for the '05 GT? I haven't even ordered mine yet (hopefully in the next day or two), but I've been looking at possible mods already.

toregano · March 2005

i think the new mustang is a very cheap car especially the interior its not solid as i thought it was ging to be, the mustang had terrible handling especially on wet surfaces if i were to choose from a bmw or a mustang id choose the bmw i dont know about uguys

tayl0rd · March 2005

And the point of that was?

dan1 · March 2005

Well since money must be no object as you would have to pay twice as much for a BMW that could come close to the Mustang's performance. I would choose the Ford GT over both of them!

graphicguy · March 2005

As long as we're picking one car over another, might as well stay in the Ford family and get an Aston over the Mustang.....

toregano....have you driven an '05 Mustang? Or, have you driven a BMW, for that matter?

jae5 · March 2005

Thanks for the link. Looks pretty cool, will have to check it out more thoroughly.

Does it use an IRS or the solid rear axle?

If they can keep it under $40K, like in the $33 - $35K range, it'll be a killer deal. Plusthat will still leave room in between it and the GT for another model.

tayl0rd · March 2005

It uses the solid rear axle. The price is projected by Ford to be below $40K.

graphicguy · March 2005

As taylord said, they are sticking with the solid axle rear. Apparently, the IRS doesn't offer any handling advantages over the solid axle in this car.

There's strong talk of other special models being spun off, too like a BOSS or MACH. No info on what those would include, though.

I even saw one thread say that if you drop the stripes & the wheels, the GT500 could come in around $35K. That would be a winner, for certain.

Other variations to be rumored...convertible variation of the GT500 or MACH or BOSS.

Lots of places you can go without much trouble...add a blower to the 4.6L, take the blower off the 5.4L....etc.

lostwrench · March 2005

BMW? Yuk. I don't think you ever drove one.

graphicguy · March 2005

For those of you wanting great big pics of the '06 Shelby GT500....

http://www.racergarage.com/shelbyGT500/index.htm

jae5 · March 2005

Yes, saw that as well. Wasn't able to take more than a quick glance but re-visited the site and read the specs. Viewed the pictures too, really like #40, a pic of the 06 and the lt. blue 68.

Could be a winner. Will have to do more research on it. Yes, I would definitely drop the wheels, just doesn't do it for me (they're kind of Corvette-ish to me). The strips, I'm still on the fence with those. ADitto with the spoiler, looks like an afterthought, particularly in the shot with the 68, and the side shot. Doesn't have that integrated look. But overall nice piece. In terms of price, let's hope the dealer group doesn't put ADMs and the like on the car.

Wonder what they could do to the 4.6/5.4 to boost the output w/o having to go the blower route.

graphicguy · March 2005

"Wonder what they could do to the 4.6/5.4 to boost the output w/o having to go the blower route."

Good question....Saleen has only been able to squeeze another 25 ponies from the 4.6 modular. MT said that the car wouldn't pass smog regs the way Saleen set it up, though. Plus, there was no difference in performance from stock. Rousch and Steeda haven't been able to get more out of the 4.6. Exhaust is pretty open from the factory. That covers the professional tuners. I'm sure big bucks can pull more ponies out of them, but will it be worth it?

I'm not as familiar with the 5.4, though. There might be some things there if I looked at it closely.

exalteddragon1 · March 2005

This car is amazing. Wow, its amazing they could get away with something like this. Good Job Ford. Whatever formula you used for the mustang, apply it to your other cars!

One question, why is the cobra on the right side of the grille, and not the middle?

Would it not look better in the middle?

graphicguy · March 2005

Answer about the COBRA emblem....it's on the right side since that's always been the Cobra tradition on all of them.

thunderbird · March 2005

I just had a new fuel tank replaced under warranty. So far, seems to have done the trick with the fueling problem.

akirby · March 2005

Ford got 400 hp out of it's naturally aspirated 5.0L Cammer engine but it's way too expensive for a production car.

jae5 · March 2005

Yes, that has been one of my biggest beefs about the 4.6/5.4, doesn't make more power unless you put an SC on it, or use nitrous or a crazy turbo setup. Mucho dinero. I mean, there are cams out know, but they're hella expensive. I don't want to "have" to put a blower on it, or "have" to put it on the bottle.

But there was the 5.4 from the Cobra R. 385 hp/tq, normally aspiration as stated. Many people forget about this motor, but then again, it really doesn't "count" due to it only being available for the R.

And as akirby stated, there's the cammer, but that sucker's $14,000!! And it may be more than that by now (and that was from the last time I checked it in a Jeg's catalog last year).

Shoot, you can buy a 426 Hemi crate carbs-to-pan, water pump-to-flywheel for less than that, even a 500+ c.i. version for less!! Hell, you can get the 572/620 (or a 720hp version I believe?) for that!

graphicguy · March 2005

Well....depends on how much money you want to spend....you could put a "top fuel" engine in it, too.

Now, if you could find someone to drop a crate motor in the Mustang, you'd have a fast and rare pony, indeed.

Out of the box, it's impressive as is, though.

mschmal · March 2005

At my dealership here in South Jersey, we are no longer taking GT orders. With our current list of orders and our current allotment we will need 5 months to get all the customers their cars.

I know at least one other dealership in my area is not taking any more 05 orders either.

Its just crazy how much pent up demand there is for a car like this. Especially when you look at the car objectively.

Styling wise, the interior is nothing special. The exterior is just about perfect. (I still don't like the outward from the top to bottom line on the rear end. it should slant out from the bottom to the top same as the front end. Also the car could use 18 inch wheels.)

Its not the V6 cars that are flying off the lot either. Its all about the V8.

I read recently that Ford is not pursuing the "hurricane" 6.2/4 Liter V8 engine for trucks. Man that seems like a mistake to me.

Mark

graphicguy · March 2005

IMHO, while the exterior is gorgeous, the interior with the Interior Upgrade Package is a work of art with its aluminum dash and accents. Thoughtful things like the little details prove that much thought has gone into it....for example, when you open the car door, the windows automatically drop down about 1/8th of an inch and then roll back up when you close the doors to make certain there's a great seal between the glass and the doors. Seats are very comfortable for cruising or spirited driving.

Edmunds has a really good article about those who put different wheels on cars and how that negatively affects performance.

Demand is high and is getting hotter as Spring weather takes hold. I've heard the same thing, that some dealers are totally sold out of the '05s and are now taking orders for '06s (which won't hit the dealer lots until Sept).

I agree, the popularity of this car is off the map.

bradkurtz · March 2005

The GTs are sold out in my area (St. Louis) until the '06s arrive. The GT500 will also be a an amzing success.

Ford has a good car here, lets hope they can keep it up.

juggernaut · March 2005

I just got mine. Man it is a black leather int/black ext GT manual with the int upgrade package. It was a sweet deal cause the dealership I got it at sold it to me at MSRP and everywhere else that I know had a 5k mark-up. This thing shifts so tight and the acceleration is awesome. Does anyone have any suggestions for initial upgrades?

Jug

graphicguy · March 2005

I'm in the midwest. Availability is very tight. I had heard that in and around St. Louis, at least the GTs are sold out for the '05 model year. Around southern OH, you can find some V6s, but no convertibles or GTs. Some dealers are only taking orders for '06s.

MSRP seems to be the going price on dealer walk ins if you can find any....or find a dealer willing to honor one of the Ford plans (i.e. ordered mine in Feb for X plan).

juggernaut....isn't the Interior Upgrade Package just stunning. As you say, just an all around great car, regardless of the parameter you judge it by.

I've only had mine for about 3 days. I can't stop at a redlight, go to the grocery store, stop for gas, etc without having people go crazy over it.

I took it out on the interstate last night. It was a bit unnerving since I had cars on either side of me and behind me, keeping close pace to catch a glimpse for about a mile.

That "black on black" is beautiful. I bet it's even more unbelievable with the all aluminum trim against that black interior.

I've got the Color Accent Package and the aluminum interior is just jaw dropping.

Ford did good!

fsv · March 2005

What real MPG do you guys get?

graphicguy · March 2005

If you're talking about a GT with the manual tranny....I've just gone through my very first tankful. So, I'm not near being past the "break-in".

According to the trip computer, I got 18 MPG...all city....on regular gas.

I'm pleased, so far with the MPG.

Ford Mustang (2005 and Newer)

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