oil consumption

jurias · October 2003

i have a 01 jetta w/29000 miles per dealer its normal for the car to consume 1 quart of oil per 1000 miles has any one had that problem

desi501 · October 2003

Yes, that would be excessive to me but I know the dealer work under different standards in respect to oil consumption. It's not normal but doesn't meet their criteria for being a defect. are you sure your not leaking any of it? I think I remember stories about those things using a lot of oil sometimes. Good reason not to own a VW.

rc7762 · October 2003

Your dealer sounds like he is crazy!! A bit excessive? If that is the case why would you ever have to change the oil? It would be gone every 3500 miles. If it were me I would do more research and have my car looked at by someone other than your dealer. If your car is supposed to consume that much oil my advise would be to start drafting a good classified ad in your local paper. I had a used 82 Mazda that consumed just about that much oil, and after I had it diagnosed I was told the engine seals were shot and basically I needed a whole new motor, that car was history shortly there after. I had a 97 Jetta GT with just about every problem you could have with a car and it only had 70,000 miles but it did not consume oil, I traded it before I put another 500 miles on it and before I went bankrupt.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2003

You can drive a car that consumes oil a long, long time but a quart every 1,000 sounds very borderline for a car this new with only 29K on it.

Not saying you are facing a disaster, but definitely something internally worn there. If it were a quart every 2,500, I could swallow that as "normal" (that is, the lower end of normal in the natural range of a variety of engines), but 1K miles to burn a quart seems excessive.

I'd suggest a cylinder leakdown test and then you might have some data to make a judgment about it.

balticjetta18t · October 2003

If you have a 2.0 Engine in your car, then I believe there were a series of bad piston rings in your engine series. Remember that 2001 VW models have a 10y/100k mile powertrain warranty unless you are not the original owner and it drops to 5y60k miles.
I would hammer the dealer service manager and push the issue for ring R + R following an oil consumption test...

fish8 · October 2003

I agree with balticjetta. This is a known defect in the 2.0 engines and the dealer should be aware of this. Press the dealer to do a oil consumption test. Do not give up until you get resolution. If need be, go to another dealer. I have heard that bad piston rings are the cause of the oil consumption. I have a '02 Jetta with the 2.0 engine and have experienced 0 oil consumption issues. So, since its the exact same engine, there is an obvious defect in the early 2.0 engines. Don't let the dealer push you around.

zueslewis · October 2003

While it's VERY true that the 2.0, 1.8 and 1.8T engines have major oil use issues, I've been to 29 arbitrations for this issue - VW won ALL of them.

VW's standard for oil consumption is 1 quart per 1,000 miles (acceptable). If it drops down to 500-750 miles, they'll re-ring, rebuild or replace the engine.

Bear in mind - the company that manufactures the project has the right to set the warranty standards and specifications, whether we like it or not, or whether our Chevy or Honda uses much less oil.

Talk with your service manager and MAYBE the repairs will be performed, but they don't have to do anything, according to the law, until their own standards are broken.

fish8 · October 2003

I stand corrected. Though I have heard some Dealers fixing this problem. VW stating that a car can burn 1Qt per 1000 miles and be normal is embarassing.

zueslewis · October 2003

dealers have been doing some repairs, and a quart per thousand is a lot of oil.

jurias · October 2003

its a 2.0 ltr i took it to the dealer they did the consumption test it cost me $45 dlrs when the 1000 miles were up i took it back to the dlr the oil was in the middle between the min and max what i noticed whn i got the car back from the dlr after they did the oil change was tht the oil level was higher than the max line but the service guy said its at normal level..i clld another dealer and they said its normal but if i wanted i could take it for another consuption test and i cannt afford to take it to every dealer and keep paying $45..should i call volkswagen.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2003

this is why I was suggesting a cylinder leakdown test at your own expense. Then you have "quantitative data" to show them, and you are approaching your case with a second attack. Not only are you relying on oil consumption data (a rather vague measuring stick when you get down to it---too many hands in the testing, too many ways to make an error), but also on a % of leakdown, which is pretty solid data.

I don't know if Zeus saw any cylinder leakdown evidence in the arbitrations that failed, maybe he could tell you that.

There is actually precedent for the 1,000 mile/quart threshold being called "normal". Of course it is a reasonable argument to state "well, then, let them put that on the window sticker". The counter argument to that is "warranty information is available to every purchaser prior to purchase".

Personally, I wouldn't much care about this level of consumption as long as 1) the car ran well, 2) it didn't smoke, and 3) it passed smog with no problem. Otherwise, being encouraged to open the hood every 3rd fillup is actually beneficial to car and owner, ironically.

desi501 · October 2003

I think the standards that dealers set as what point they consider it defective are ridiculous but unfortunately I doubt you can fight them. The best weapon you have against them is spreading your dissatisfaction around to all their future customers. Don't say anything that is untrue, just declare it is unfair. Reputation is what dealer thrive on so take it away from them. You can cancel out millions of their advertising dollars if you work at it.

zueslewis · October 2003

hold on a minute:

"I think the standards that dealers set as what point they consider it defective are ridiculous but unfortunately I doubt you can fight them"

Dealers DO NOT manufacture cars. They DO NOT set warranty standards. Manufacturers do this and are the only entities responsible for warranties by federal law.

Starting a fight with the dealer or dogging the dealer just makes your car get fixed later. Don't blame a dealership for abiding by the manufacturer's standards - they could start fixing things on their own, but they'd be covering the bill, and they'd soon go out of business with no reimbursement from the manufacturer - they have to follow the manufacturer's rules.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2003

Yes, the oil consumption limits should be actual published data issued by the factory. Most factory manuals have this data in them.

Of course, it's always good to check that the dealer is quoting the factory correctly.

Generally, if the dealer is tellling you this, it is because the factory will not pay the dealer to replace an engine that is still within consumption limits. The dealer is not going to do any warranty work that will get kicked back to him.

balticjetta18t · October 2003

YEAH, OK, THE MANUFACTURER HAS CERTAIN STANDARDS FOR OIL BURNING. THE DEALER HAS TO KNOW THEY WILL BE PAID TO DO THE WARRANTY WORK. SURE THEY DO NOT WANT TO BREAK OPEN YOUR ENGINE FOR NO REVENUE.
YOU ARE STILL THE CUSTOMER AND HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO TRY TO GET SATISFACTION.
WE ALL HAVE HEARD THE STATEMENT HOW SOME ENGINES VIRTUALLY DON'T BURN ANY OIL. IT IS ONE OF A HAPPY PERSON REGARDING THE MOTOR. HECK, MY BRIGGS AND STRATTON OHV ENGINE ON MY YARDMAN DOESN'T BURN ANY CASTROL SAE 30. I ONLY CHECK IT EVERY THREE MOWS AND IT NEVER CHANGES. THAT IS RELIABILITY.
BOTTOM LINE, CALL VW OF AMERICA AND TELL THEM YOUR CONCERNS AND THAT YOU ARE NOT HAPPY. SEE WHAT THEY DO. IT IS YOUR RIGHT.

zueslewis · October 2003

YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF!!

fish8 · October 2003

You're right, dealers do not manufature cars. But, the way they handle the problem will either make the customer happy and assure future sales or make them mad and dissuade them from future VW sales.

zueslewis · October 2003

I was arguing where someone said the dealer set the policy on oil consumption.

I love VW products - I've owned 8 so far, including 2 Bugs when I was stationed in Greece. I really like the Jettas and Golfs, but after being a lemon law investigator, I'd never own on with the 1.8, 1.8T or 2.0.

The VR6, on the other hand....

fish8 · October 2003

What issues, other than oil consumption, do you see with the 2.0? Gladly, mine has been flawless in over 21,000 miles.

zueslewis · October 2003

except a few engine management problems (coils and injectors) that plague the whole line of engines.

With Jettas, Golfs and Beetles, it's usually electrical and automatic transmission problems and/or oil consumption.

fish8 · October 2003

I guess I will keep my fingers crossed.

jurias · October 2003

my 2.0l when i first bought w/18,000 on 1/03 it was fine after two weeks the tranny when it was to shift from 2nd to 3rd gear it would bang and the power mph would decrease but just for about 5 sec then it wld work fine the rest of the gears but it would not do it consecutive times. i took it to the dealer they said the tranny was at specs they sd tht they reset the tranny and i took it back home it one or two weeks later it did it again i told them again and they sd tht they did another diagnostic and it was fine what was odd was that i put an aftermarket stereo and i had to put the original before they could check the tranny. anyways now the car doesnt do it anymore

Mr_Shiftright · October 2003

I don't think one can make a correlation between oil consumption and reliability. It may or may not be indicative of something worth worrying about. It's really a matter of degreee and frequency, but "burning oil" is, in itself, not a disease. It's a characteristic that some cars have and some don't.

Some engineers will purposely allow a bit of oil burning and I think that's a good thing, especially in very high performance cars.

In the case of VW, we do have a record of some problems in this area, and I have to admit that if indeed we are consuming a quart of oil every 1K miles, on a low mileage car, this is disappointing.

But even that does not point to a forthcoming disaster.

Next step is to determine cause, and then remedy and who pays for it.

desi501 · October 2003

Dealers DO NOT manufacture cars. They DO NOT set warranty standards. Manufacturers do this and are the only entities responsible for warranties by federal law.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It was just a figure of speech. I'm fully aware who sets the warranty policy. It was merely a generality referring to the manufacturer (or it's representative in this case). I refer to dealer as opposed to independent shop. Bottom line "Volkswagon" can do what ever they choose as far a policy limits and there's not much you can do about it except "make noise". Someone needs to start a "class action" suit with the number of these defective vehicles out there.

zueslewis · October 2003

the attorneys will make more by doing one case at a time, trust me.

I don't need to calm down, just after spending several years in the car business, I try to "nip in the bud" any talk that would make a consumer go beat up someone at his dealership because "the dealer said" his car didn't meet a standard for repairs.

rc7762 · October 2003

I could not agree with you more about hassling the dealer but what is the answer? How does one go about getting the information and more importantly the specs from the manufacturer that warrants the engine consuming this amount of oil?

In my opinon no engine from any manufacture American or foreign should ever consume this amount of oil and I certainly don't buy into the fact that this is "Fine German engineering" I'm sorry but thats a load of crap. I feel that if VW or any car manufacture for that matter claims that this amount of oil consumption is "normal" they are covering up for a major defect or a major design flaw.

If this type of oil consumption was posted on the window sticker and/or in the brochure in the dealer show room I think most people would seriously think twice before purchasing the automobile. I had a Mazda 626 that consumed oil and even though I loved driving the car I hated the fact that every time I got behind the wheel I had to wonder if there was enough oil in the engine.

I think it would be very helpful for consumers to get this type of information when doing their car research, since you have experience in the car buisness is there any information that you could provide?

Thanks,

zueslewis · October 2003

a quart every 1,000 miles is ridiculous. It is because of this that I didn't buy a GTI, which I really wanted.

I don't know what the answer is - other than a public ad campaign, it seems there's no way to have VW correct the oil consumption issue.

balticjetta18t · October 2003

I am on my 3rd VW. 82 Rabbit L with a 1.7L FI, an 85 GTI Golf with a 1.8L FI, and now an 01 Jetta with a 1.8T; all cars with manual trannies. None of these cars burnt any more than 1/2 a quart in an avg. of 5k between oil/filter changes even under heavy loads, hot weather or bad winter conditions.
I have had leases on 3 Mercury's and a Ford P/u in between the VW's for business and with Vulcan and Duratec V6's, 4cyl Zetec, and a Triton V8. All of these various motors burnt just maybe a full quart ONLY on engine breakin by 3k-5kmiles. Then it was virtually nothing from then on.
1qt per 1k is not acceptable.

zueslewis · October 2003

in fact, I see many more cases involving the 1.8 and 1.8T than the 2.0.

christasvw · October 2003

I bought a new Jetta and have followed the dealer's instructions meticulously as to break-in period and first oil change at 5,000 mi. Ever since then it has used about 1 qt. in 1000 miles. In all previous cars, including new, used, VW, Ford, GM, Chrysler products I never had any oil problems. Having read your posted reports on this subject I just want to confirm that there is indeed a problem out there. How about it VW? I love the car otherwise but don't think I should be checking oil more than gas! VW of America suggests an oil consumption test which I will have done but I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about this. Any suggestions out there?

fish8 · October 2003

Complete the oil consumption test from the dealer and cross your fingers that they agree to repair your car if something is found. Good Luck

zueslewis · October 2003

people used the term "oil mileage".

Mr_Shiftright · October 2003

I would actually like my new car to burn a LITTLE bit of oil. I like the idea of a little bit of oil up there in the valve area. Maybe a quart per change would be fine with me, if I were driving hard fast and often, which is what I do. The thought of a completely dry upper cylinder area at redline isn't attractive.

jurias · October 2003

the oil consumption test is going to run you $45 and they might end up saying its at normal consumption specially that your car is new

swschrad · October 2003

bottled drop by drop under close supervision of jolly old watchmakers in the black forest, and shipped by chartered jet one quart at a time.

zueslewis · October 2003

negative 5W47 oil that's only sold at one VW dealer in the nation.

njjetta · October 2003

It's a Saturday and once again I am checking the oil level in my '01 2.0 Jetta. I have found that I am looking at the 1 quart per thousand miles that several others are experiencing. The car has only 33k and I am a couple months away from the lease period. I have read the comments about how to proceed if you want VW to address the problem but I like this car and I need to decide whether I should buy it at lease end. Has anyone heard any definitive answers from a mechanical perspective as to how the life of the engine will be effected by this high consumption?? If someone has a true mechanics answer I would appreciate the info. Thanks

rc7762 · October 2003

It sounds like you really like your car but if you only have a couple of months left on your lease why would you not give the car back to VW and let this be their problem not yours? If you really like the Jetta that much why not lease or buy another one? and hope that the new one does not consume oil. I have never leased and maybe it's not that simple to just give the car back but do you really want to own a car that consumes that much oil if you don't have to?

zueslewis · October 2003

I've never seen an oil consumption case involving the VR6 engine...that might be a better choice than the 1.8T or 2.0.

I've done several hundred cases on Golfs and Jettas with those engines.

rc7762 · October 2003

It sounds like you really like your car but if you only have a couple of months left on your lease why would you not give the car back to VW and let this be their problem not yours? If you really like the Jetta that much why not lease or buy another one? and hope that the new one does not consume oil. I have never leased and maybe it's not that simple to just give the car back but do you really want to own a car that consumes that much oil if you don't have to?

njjetta · October 2003

I appreciate the comments on whether or not I should turn in the Jetta. While talking with some fairly knowledgable car guys this weekend, the general consensus is to give back the car. I should have no problem since I'll be below the mileage and the car is very clean. I had planned to buy it since you take the big hit on depreciation when you lease and we certainly do like the car. Unfortunately, unless I hear that VW is going to make some arrangements to address the high consumption, I'll have to give it back. Does anyone know if this is still an issue with the new 2.0 motor?? Any input would be help.

balticjetta18t · October 2003

Remember that the true basis of a lease is to pay payments that cover the depreciation of the vehicle plus lease charges/interest based on the negotiated price of the car when leased out. An advantage of the lease is to have more brand new vehicles for the same periods of time you pay payments conventionaly but less. In addition your bumper to bumper portion of your warranty is over which can be more important for all the other things that can go wrong. Yes your Powertrain on the 2001 is 10/100K, but you dont want to have to keep feeding it oil every 3 fuel stops. This is your best window to walk away and just get a new o4 or o3 with no oil eating problems.

fish8 · October 2003

I also have a 2002 2.0 and experience 0 consumption issues. I have actually never had to add oil to my car between oil changes (5K miles). So, to answer your question, I hope VW has addressed the oil consumption issues and new VW's are cured.

Also, did you know VW has a program (Pull Ahead) out right now that offers to pay your remaining lease payment (up to 12 months of pmts) and you can get into another VW with no negative equity problems?

njjetta · October 2003

Yes fish8, thanks for suggesting the Pull Ahead program and the info on the new 2.0 engines. I did hear about it through several ways. The dealer called first and then I got the letter from VW. Seems they are very interested in moving some '03 cars. I did start a conversation with the dealer and learned of the 1.9 financing on purchase of '03 Jettas & Passats and a $1000 dollar credit for current owners. I wanted to avoid taking the depreciation hit on another car but it looks like I'm heading in that direction. Has anyone heard of any other incentives that might be available? Would like to stay with VW.

fish8 · October 2003

You can look in Edmunds or the VW site for any available incentives. Good luck with your search for a new car.

BTW: VW and the dealer contacted you about the Pull Ahead program? I hope I get contacted next spring or summer. I would love getting into another VW.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2003

You had asked about the negative effects of oil consumption on the life of a car.

My answer would be "it depends".

It depends on how much oil is being consumed and whether that amount will adversely affect the emissions system (stress it out, or cause premature parts failure).

But if the oil consumption is ridiculously excessive, the engine could run forever, as long as you add oil.

I'd say a quart every 1K miles is really pushing it if you want to remain optimistic about the future of the engine. If it were 2K/quart, I'd be more encouraging, or if we knew it would stabilize at 1K for the next 100K miles, I'd be more encouraging. But as it is, given the low miles on this engine, I'm with the others in suggesting you turn it in or have the engine repaired during warranty. Otherwise, I suspect this is going to get worse over time, given the known issues with some VW engines.

oil consumption

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