2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

mackabee · September 2007

I'll check it out and get back to you.
Mack

tjc78 · September 2007

If they took it away it wouldn't be that big a deal IMO. The text doesn't scroll across the screen like many other makes. On a hunch, you could try resetting the radio by pulling the fuse under the hood. Then start the car, after turning off the car replace the fuse. This cleared up my issue when the changer refused to eject or play the CDs in it. So many things electronic today work after a "reboot"

mackabee · September 2007

Looks like they dropped it. I tuned several different fm stations in my area and did not get a text display. This car had nav so I will try it on one without nav.

On another note, I took the same car out for a test drive and I'm still recovering from the excitement. This six speed tranny is a beauty! I took an Indigo ink Limited on a 20 mile ride. I had the car up to 95mph before it engaged the sixth gear! The shifts from fourth to fifth, to sixth were so smooth the only way I felt them was by looking at the tachometer's rpms. I slowed down in a hurry. I don't need a speeding ticket around here. I am definitely stoked with this car!

Mackabee

dcallies · September 2007

Is 2008 the first year for the 6-speed tranny? I knew my 2005 was a 5 speed and I was trying to figure out what year it changed? It's a little early (only one tank fill so far) but my gas mileage seems to be a little better.

The text button works for only the cd's. Not having it with the FM bums me out a little.

tjc78 · September 2007

According to the Toyota website the JBL radio includes RDS (radio data system) so I am not sure why your car and Mackabee's demo do not display the info. The RDS is listed with NAV or without.

From Toyota:
"Voice-activated DVD navigation system [7] with JBL Synthesis® AM/FM 6-disc in-dash CD changer with satellite radio capability [8], MP3/WMA playback capability, auxiliary audio jack, hands-free phone capability via Bluetooth® [9] wireless technology, 360 watts (maximum output) with 12 speakers including subwoofer, Radio Data System (RDS), in-glass antenna and FM diversity reception"

OR

"JBL Synthesis® AM/FM 6-disc in-dash CD changer with satellite radio capability [8], MP3/WMA playback capability, auxiliary audio jack, hands-free phone capability via Bluetooth® [9] wireless technology, 360 watts (maximum output) with 12 speakers including subwoofer, Radio Data System (RDS), in-glass antenna and FM diversity reception"

nimimi · September 2007

Has anyone experienced erratic behavior from the rain-sensing wipers in the Limited? Mine occasionally runs the wipers for no apparent reason and, at times, when I run the washers, the wipers continue for much more than the one-last-wipe listed in the manual.

mackabee · September 2007

It is for the Avalon. The 6 spd is used on the 2007-8 V6 Camry where there were a few hiccups with about .5 % of the early production models (feb-mar 2006). I'm not sure what is up with the RDS. The car I checked was ready for sale so it was not one that hadn't been PDI'd (pre-delivery inspected)

Mackabee

mackabee · September 2007

I don't know if I would call it erratic. Maybe it's the way it was designed to work. The car I took out yesterday wiped the windshield after I started it. There had been some light sprinkles before I went for the drive. I believe in senses any moisture no matter how slight and it's activated.

Mackabee

ange · September 2007

I am not against using nitrogen in tires but I have a difficult time seeing or measuring the benifits. Here are some things to think about

Actually air has 78.08% nitogen. When you replace air with nitrogen, depending how it is separated, you only get maybe 22% inert gas. Some nitrogens are not pure and contain oxygen. It is dangerous, people have died in industries where nitrogen is used for purging lines. The properties of air and nitrogen are very close. The specific heat and volume are similiar at given temperature in a source I found.

Removing oxygen from tires may reduce the oxidation that slowly takes place with rubber tires. Some tires that are recapable many times may see control over oxidation. Since some people want every last bit of benefit that they can get, they do things.

If there was a positive benefit for the car owner why do the car manufacturers still add air? I guess air is still free.

ange3

pat · September 2007

Host pf_flyer blogs about it today: Nitrogen: A Noble Gas?

maryj · September 2007

Finally, after two years of complaining and having my 05 Avalon in for service, a new mechanic found, in the process of doing an ECM calibration, that there is a new "fix" out that updates the 05 transmission to 07 standards. Parts have been ordered and they have rec some the last couple days but more are coming in. According to him there are many changes that have to be made. Several sensors and even the manifolds. He says that repairs will probably take a couple of days.
No matter what, at least an effort is finally being made to fix the shifts.
I'll take the info from these posts and see if the TSBs are the same. Tnx for info on these.
BTW, any pics of the 08 out there.
TedJ

maryj · September 2007

When I took my 05 to the dealer, they "discovered" that a new TSB was out. My mechanic started making changes or whatever they do and then read that many sensors, etc., had to be installed, so he only got part way thru the procedure because the parts weren't in stock. He told me that my 1st and 2nd shifts will be rough and he took me for a ride to show me. He was right. Mine feels just like you describe but he assures me it won't hurt the transmission now but when the parts come in the roughness will disappear. Sometimes the shift is really jarring.
His statement makes me wonder if your mechanic only did part of the job.
TedJ

gohawaiian · September 2007

Yesterday, my car was hit by a tire that came rolling out of nowhere on the highway in front of my car and struck my front bumper on the license plate while I was doing about 45 mph. I stopped and retrieved two pieces of my car from the side of the road (which was not a happy feeling)- the two items that had fallen off were the chromed-plastic Toyota emblem from the grill, and the plastic housing surrounding the foglamp/laser cruise control window on the Limited's lower bumper. Both of these pieces had popped out intact, as a result of the impact, and both snapped securely back into place, with no fasteners or glue required. (I will no longer berate the "flimsy" plastic housing around the cruise control window that always seemed to jiggle around loosely in the lower area of the bumper - I'm glad it was able to pop out in one piece rather than break.) There were ugly scuff marks on the bumper that came off easily with rubbing compound, and my dealer was kind enough to replace my broken license frame at no cost. What at first blush had looked unsightly and seemed like a potentially expensive repair job awaiting me instead ended up being a "snap" (literally) to fix myself and cost me absolutely nothing. I know I was rather lucky, but when you can sustain an impact like that and have NEITHER an "appearance" issue nor a cost outlay to ruin your day, I consider that a very well-designed bumper/front end. Kudos to Toyota!

mackabee · September 2007

There's plenty of pics of the 08 at www.toyota.com Been there for a while now. Not much changed. Front bumper more pronounced and chrome all over the grille. The six speed tranny is a beauty. Scroll back a few posts and read my mini-review.

Mackabee

tedtnj · September 2007

My 2007 Toyota Avalon (6,000 miles) has an engine + transmission + ECM problem which the factory field representative indicates is a normal design.

Yes this the factory representative drove the vehicle and concurred.

No, the regional factory engineer knows of no fix.

Somewhere in these forums there are discussions of new software, bulletins, etc.

Yes, my vehicle has the all latest software.

= = = = = =

So what is the issue?

The drive train has a mind of its own, actually Toyotas mind.

If I remove my foot from the accelerator to coast to a stop, the following abnormal behavior occurs at every shift point.

 The engine RPM increases as the vehicle shifts down.

 Therefore, because of the increased RPM, the vehicle surges forward.

In some cases it feels as if the cars cruise control in engaged (it is not).

Thus, if one expects to decelerate, in point of fact, the car encroaches on the space between ones own vehicle and the vehicle ahead. Oftentimes, I have the sensation that a rear end collision will occur. Therefore my required reaction is to activate the brakes.

This is disconcerting and entirely unexpected on a level roadway. When it occurs on a decline the cr feels as if it is running away.

Now one needs to be careful in interpreting my words as the shift points for the higher gears the anomaly (or aberrant drive train behavior) is less noticeable, but nevertheless is present.

It is of no consequence as to whether the AC is active or not.

Unlike others who have posted in this forum, the car does not have a hesitation issue.
So I will prematurely wear my brake pads and use a bit extra gas as the RPMs increase.

= = = = = = = =
These postings seem to capture perhaps Toyotas intent:
wwest, "Toyota Avalon 2005+" #13763, 3 Jul 2007 9:33 am

wwest, "Toyota Avalon 2005+" #13773, 8 Jul 2007 12:39 pm

= = = = = = = =

Bottom line, per Toyota, need to live with the anomaly as it is not corrected until the six gear 2008 Avalon, and there is no fix.
:confuse:

mem4 · September 2007

Isn't it common sense that the RPM's will increase momentarily as the transmission downshifts? Have you ever driven a manual transmission? If you are driving in 5th gear, put in the clutch, shift to 4th, release the clutch, what happens? The engine RPM's increase until the vehicle slows down some more then it will all happen again as you shift down through the gears. You will also feel a slight change in the vehicles travel as the engine and transmission speeds change and slow the car. It has to happen this way as long as the engine is coupled to the transmission, gears are gears, the Avalon doesn't have a CVT transmission.

havalongavalon · September 2007

tedtnj,

What you say sounds similar to the condition they returned my 2005 Av after the TSB fix that presumably brought its hardware and firmware at par with the 2007. I took it back right away, they reprogrammed it and since then it's been shifting very well. As I reported in #13921,

"When I got the car back I was shocked at how badly it shifted, right out of the service lot -- far worse than ever before! It held every gear too long, and while shifting the engine surged at least 1000 RPM so when the next gear engaged it jumped forward. It was scary how far from spec it shifted, and surprising that it was returned in that state. But once they erased the memory and re-programmed, the result was great. It obviously needed both the software and hardware updates."

I'd take your 2007 to the dealer and insist that they erase and reprogram the ECM. Now that these TSBs are out, the problem you have is no longer "normal".

wwest · September 2007

"Isn't it common sense..."???

Yes, it is common sense, knowledge, that upon a downshift for/during coastdown the engine RPM will rise as will the engine compression "braking" force.

Look in your FWD or F/AWD owners manual for the section that addresses the hazards arising from disparate traction at the front vs the rear on low-traction surfaces. Braking ALWAYS results in higher "traction" at the front vs the rear. With the additional traction already provided by FWD or F/AWD the braking equation can more readily, more quickly, reach a disastrous level.

And keep in mine that unlike the brake fluid pressure ABS cannot "release" engine compression braking force. So if you should apply the brakes you might find the engine RPM rising even farther so as not to interfere with ABS activity.

The Ford patent calls for disabling the regenerative braking aspect of the FWD or F/AWD FEH/MMH vehicles the INSTANT ABS activates.

What has now changed is that the engine/Transaxle ECU will control, raise, the engine RPM during this event such that a significant level of engine braking does not result in a loss of directional control should the roadbed be too slippery to support that level of "braking".

Noticed several posts on this point on the new Suzuki SX4 with stick shift...

Also, Ford actually has a US patent involving a technique wherein braking due to regenerative hybrid battery charging in the FEH/MMH vehicles is significantly reduced if the OAT is hovering around freezing.

The technologically ENHANCED future has arrived, get used to it, it's only going to get BETTER ("worse"??)..!!

ange · September 2007

I agree with tedtnj about the transmission change to 1st gear with a 100-200 rpm increase depending on how fast your are going as you get ready to come to a dead stop. My car does the same thing. The car does not slow after it shifts to 1st gear with the little surge. Certainly a surge in rpms is expected and a quick gear change should happen, but we also expect the engine compression to slow down the car and not act as if it is free wheeling.

I have not checked the transmission behavior very much. Must do though to be able to enjoy driving this car. I don't remember the transmission acting this way before the TSB was done on my 2005. Someone mentioned toyota wanted to extend the transmission life by changing the shifting.
Right now I feel I made a mistake getting the fix done. I had no complaints about slowing down, only jerky shift from 1st to 2nd in slow moving traffic.

I did notice now the 1st to 2nd shifting is less annoying then when it was first done. The memory thing must have someting to do with slightly better shifting. Maybe another 500 miles will make it right.
ange3

wwest · September 2007

Maybe we should go back to my theory that these strange shift patterns are the result of trying to alleviate, eliminate, loss of direction control due to, from, engine braking on the front wheels should the roadbed be too slippery.

Maybe the new TSB has changed the previous UPSHIFT upon lift-throttle coastdown to a downshift but with a rise in engine RPM to alleviate any significant, potentially DANGEROUS, engine compression braking.

But maybe both are in play.

Lower capacity ATF pump to extend FE.

Originally used the upshift technique to accomomdate lower ATF capacity.

With too much public outcry over the "flare" and "hesitation" symptoms maybe Toyota has now adopted the Suzuki originated technique of raising engine RPM to match roadspeed based on current gear ratio. Apparently the Suzuki SX4 will up-rev the engine to match roadspeed to prevent instances of loss of control and/or interference with ABS even with, upon, a driver initiated, stick shift, downshift.

ski1003 · September 2007

I had the fix done on my 2005 Avalon. The fix on the 2005 requires new exhaust manifold plus sensor work. The first time the dealer did this, they did not put on the exhaust manifold which applys to the 2005 cars only. It shifted badly. They got the part the next day and fixed it correctly. The fix takes about 4 hours and the car has been running greatly since.

maryj · September 2007

Here comes, I imagine, a very stupid question. If the 2005 transmission is upgraded to 2007 standards, is it still five speed or does the upgrade make it six? I really ought to put my wife's name on this but I'll suffer the laughs.
TedJ

havalongavalon · September 2007

Ted,

A strange question, allright! But you are saved because the 2007 is still a 5-speed. The 2008 has the 6-speed.

havalong

fin · September 2007

Let's take a variation of the above 5/6 speed question and see what the opinions are...

The '05 thru '07s are all five speeds and have now presumably been fixed (the ones that needed it) and the 2008 forward are all six speeds... so, do we, with '05 to '07's, get higher than expected resale dollars because the problem is solved and the six speeds are unknown, or, do we not because the six speed is an valuable improvement? Comments... ???

jlsexton · September 2007

Whats with the fixation on the number of speeds, not just you but many of the writers. Maybe the REAL answer is to go to a CVT and get rid of all the speeds. My 2006 built at June's end works fine, so either I have an early 2007 or a very late 2006 with a good tranny, pick one.........Just for laughs does ANYONE have any other problems other than tranny's..

tjc78 · September 2007

"Maybe the REAL answer is to go to a CVT"

Please NO CVTs. I repeat no CVTs, they make the car seem completely lifeless. Just my opinion of course

My '06 has been completely trouble free through 15K. I think the biggest problems with the Avalon have been the steering column knock, oil leaks, and rattles in a few early '05s.

fin · September 2007

My '07 Limited is perfect at 12k miles. Back to the dealer only for oil changes. Just returned from a 3 day visit to Nashville, got 31 mpg at 79 mph avg speed on the interstates. It gets no better so far...

havalongavalon · September 2007

"Please NO CVTs. I repeat no CVTs, they make the car seem completely lifeless."

I agree. They remind me of trolleybuses.

"I think the biggest problems with the Avalon have been the steering column knock, oil leaks, and rattles in a few early '05s."

Right, and with respect to the steering column knock, has anyone had it return after it was fixed? I'm afraid I'm starting to feel light tapping noises through the steering wheel, upon starting and stopping...

mackabee · September 2007

You may be lucky since I doubt many of the salespeople you run into will even know the 08 has a six speed tranny. Most don't know the V6 Camry has had it since 07.

Mack

dandl · September 2007

Hey Havalongavalon, Yep, I continue to have steering column problems after the dealership replaced the steering column

The wheel now "shifts" back and forth and makes a clunking noise, especially when starting up from a stop or on left turns, but hey, the dealership says this is "normal" ..... :mad: I am soooo upset with the dealerships in my area, they DONT CARE !!!! The list of things they have done wrong to my car would raise the hairs on the back of your neck...... I have several rattles in the dash, but I dont trust any of the local dealerships to attempt to correct them. I just don't know what to do. As for letting them do the tranny fix, gulp....
One thing though, next time your sitting in your car, wiggle your "rump" in the seat. I had a new ticking noise develop that sure sounded like it was coming from the steering column but it turned out to be a loose connection under the front of the drivers seat.
Hope this helps.
Laura

jlsexton · September 2007

Laura, maintain your sense of humor, I like you emotionacons. Do you have a Lemon Law, if so pursue it, if not a smalls claims court suit might wake them up. Also there are implied warranties, that is a transmission is suppossed to transmit, as in power from the engine to the wheels, steering columns are suppossed to steer not clunk or shift. Me, I'd sue if they wouldn't help, too much money for a headache...........

maryj · September 2007

Car going into shop tomorrow, 24Sep, for the upgrade to the 07 standards. The book says only four hours to fix but I'm expecting all day or more because of replacing both exhaust manifolds. When I get it back, I'll report in.
TedJ

herrdon1 · September 2007

I HAVE A 2005 AVALON THAT SHIFTS SORT OF GOOFY ON DECELERATION. EXACTLLY WHAT SYMPTOM DID YOU HAVE TO GET THE FIX ON YOUR TRANSMISSION. I CALLED MY DEALER AND HE SAYS IF I DO NOT HAVE A HESITATION ON ACCELERATION THEY WILL NOT EVEN LOOK AT MY CAR. DOES THIS SOUND RIGHT?

mackabee · September 2007

I HAVE A 2005 AVALON THAT SHIFTS SORT OF GOOFY ON DECELERATION. EXACTLLY WHAT SYMPTOM DID YOU HAVE TO GET THE FIX ON YOUR TRANSMISSION. I CALLED MY DEALER AND HE SAYS IF I DO NOT HAVE A HESITATION ON ACCELERATION THEY WILL NOT EVEN LOOK AT MY CAR. DOES THIS SOUND RIGHT?

No need to shout! If your car doesn't have hesitation leave it alone.
Mackabee

tjc78 · September 2007

Define goofy... does the RPM spike a little while coasting down? If it does thats normal for this drivetrain.

johncdnrockies · September 2007

I've put quite a few kilometers (>15,000 km) on the car since the transmission update this summer. This has been a mix of city driving, long distance hauls and Rocky Mountain climbs. I'm giving a quick update as a poster had expressed concern that initial good results might wane over ensuing months.

In our case, the transmission continues to shift smoothly without any hint of surges or gear searches. I would define the shift pattern as a little bit below our Mercedes but noticeably better than our Volvo or Jeep (which are both fine). All in all, a wonderful improvement.

I remain soooo grateful to this board for bringing it to my attention and consider the car to be near-flawless at this point. I now know how those folks who never experienced the transmission shift problem feel - the rig is a real treat.

We have nearly 50,000 km (~30,000 miles) on the car and it has restored my faith in Toyota. Thanks guys for this site and your advice.

John

highroller2 · September 2007

had the fix done according to the tsb about 6 weeks ago. car now runs flawlessly with a slightly improved gas mileage. Make sure they put in ALL the new 2007 parts. I had no problem with the dealer and the service manager worked directly with me until I was satisfied. I'm usually of the "if it aint broke. . ." school, but If Toyota says the new parts make it run better and it's free why not get them?

jlsexton · September 2007

Just in case, would you be so kind as to list ALL the new parts that need to be installed, so far my vehicle is fine but one never knows............

highroller2 · September 2007

http://link-protector.com/221107/. Go here and you can down load the whole tsb on the 05 fix. I think there are nearly a dozen parts and I don't remember them.

ski1003 · September 2007

My 2005 Avalon xl was downshifting at various times while slowing down. I never really had any hesitation but it an occasion would not start the first time and if I turned the key off and tried again, it worked ok. I had the transmission fix done and car now shifts fine and have not experienced any problems with starting since. I would push to have the TSB done on your car.

ski1003 · September 2007

Check my reply dated Sept 27... I sent it to the wrong person....

havalongavalon · September 2007

Hello again captain2,

Our usual Vancouver fall rains have returned, snow will soon be falling on mountain roads you drove here (probably to Whistler, site of the next winter Olympics in 2010) and by now my OM Michelins are past 50,000 km and looking fairly worn. Back in May you told us about your new Toyo Versado tires, how have they been doing since then? I suppose you haven't yet had any chance to test them on snow or ice, but any info about their expected winter performance will be helpful.

Any other comments about alternate replacement tires, also welcome.

Cheers,

havalong

lnt · September 2007

Several months ago I posted about my car locking with my keys inside. I changed to my spare key fob and haven't had any more problems. Today, I grabbed the door handle to unlock the car and it wouldn't unlock. I got out the key FOB and tried it - still wouldn't unlock. I went around to all of the doors grabbing the handles and finally the passenger side rear door unlocked. I drove home and every few minutes went out to see if I could unlock the car by grabbing the handle and by using the FOB. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. So I went back to my first key FOB and so far it is working. I have no trouble starting the car. Does this sound like a weak battery in the key FOB or some other kind of electrical problem? I do carry my cell phone in my purse even though it is in a different pocket. The car manual says not to carry your cell phone any closer than 3 feet to the key fob. How is that possible if I am going to take both with me???? How do the rest of you manage to take a cell phone and your key fobs and keep them 3 feet apart?? Sorry for the long post, but I am about ready to go trade for an XLS so I can have a real key, except I have only 19,000 on my "05" so can't really justify that!
Thanks for any suggestions. I do plan on taking the car down tomorrow and getting new batteries for both key fobs. Hope that solves the problem!

jlsexton · September 2007

I listen to AM talk radio, the antenna in the Avalon to put it nicely does not perform as well as my old Camry, am I the only one with this problem, it is only on AM............

pcc49 · October 2007

I own an 06 limited and had a "key" problem recently! One day I got out of Costco, put all items in the trunk, closed it but could not start the car! My wife had to come rescue me with the other key. I suspected it was the battery but had the dealer looked at it anyway. The dealer replaced the battery and charged me $100. So my advice it to replace the battery yourself first to see if it fixes the problem.

I do not and have not been following the "3 ft" rule and I never have any problem before.

jlsexton · October 2007

Wonderful, was the charge for replacing the battery or for the time spent because they also had no idea what was wrong. Does this now mean that I have to carry spare battery's in my wallet just in case, another better idea from technology. Is there a suggested life expectancy on these battery's as in change them EVERY year.
At least you can get in the car with the key, I would be really ticked in the middle of a snow storm.

lnt · October 2007

To pcc49 - Wow!!! Did you ever get ripped off! My parts manager at the Toyota dealership charged me $11.69 for the new battery and that's it!! He only had one battery in stock, so he ordered one for my other FOB too. I read the 3ft in the car manual.

tkaz · October 2007

My 2006 Limited has HID low beam headlamps. They work fine. However the high beams are not that good. I compared them to my 2005 Sienna which has HID low beams and 9005ST HB3 high beam bulbs. The Sienna high beams produce similar color to the Xenon low beams plus illuminate much better.
I want to replace the high beams in my Avalon with Sylvania Silverstar 9005ST. The Sienna manual shows how to replace the headlamps. The Avalon manual says to have the dealer replace them. But it seems quite easy to take off the cover over the back of the high beam lamp and pull out to replace. It looks like I may need to remove the battery to reach in on the driver side. Am I missing something why the Avalon manual doesn't want you changing the bulbs?

mackabee · October 2007

"The Avalon manual says to have the dealer replace them. "

jlsexton · October 2007

Lets face it if you people keep doing everything yourself Toyota will merely be selling cars. So just be a good little customer and bring your vehicle back and have the car store do everything.

A lot of people are simply incapable of doing what some of us consider simple and are lacking in common sense, many are politicians and use us as the Morlocks did the Eloi. If you are capable of maintainance on your vehicle or simply changing a headlight do so BUT I would check the lumens output of the original headlights versus the Sylvania prior to doing so.

2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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