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2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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Comments

  • teereevesteereeves Member Posts: 69
    I noticed some discrepancy between the artist sketch of the 2006 Avalon Body Style that is displayed on the "The Car Connection" website and the live spied picture of the 2006 Avalon Body Style that was shown in the Motor Trend Magazine. The Motor Trend spied shot didn't have the 2006 Avalon looking like an over sized Prius(ugly), but a nice looking large sedan, at least from the back side. Anyone who has seen both pictures, do you agree?
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    We don't know which is the right one. The only thing is, that MT say it's a 2006 model which is most definitely not true. It will be '05. So Car connection source seems more reliable.
  • nomad56nomad56 Member Posts: 134
    That "rendering" was NOT the Avalon. Go to "Autosite" dot com and look at the 2006 Lexus GS. -nomad56-
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Historically, carconnection has been FAR LESS reliable than the newsstand publications. Even though Im not a big fan of MT, Id put more faith in info there.

    ~alpha
  • teereevesteereeves Member Posts: 69
    That the TCC spied artist sketch of the new body style Avalon definetly resembles the 2006 Lexus GS. So I am definetly keeping that MT has the real new body style spied Avalon.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    Unless you are referring to something I'm not familiar with, the MT spy shot was not even an Avalon. It was a misidentified 2005 Hyundai Sonata.

    -Andrew L
  • teereevesteereeves Member Posts: 69
    The spied photo in the March 2004 MT is not a 2005 Hyundai Sonata, the Sonata is not getting a redesign until the 2007 model year. If you look at the hub caps on the spied photo you will see those look like toyota hub caps. The body style of the car look like toyota.
  • solara00solara00 Member Posts: 81
    My local salesman told me that at a dealership meeting they were given this link to show what the 2005 Avalon will look like. But I thought someone said in this forum or elsewhere that the Crown Concept is not the 05 Avalon. So does the salesman have bad info, or could this be the car? The salesman did say the car would not be available until late January 05. There is a broadband link to some of the features of this car. I think this link shows a lot nicer looking car than the picture that was posted several days ago here. If this link does not show the 05 Avalon, then I'm waiting for nothing I guess. Please see if this Toyota link depicts the possible 05 Avalon.

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/event/auto_shows/toyota/index.html
  • teereevesteereeves Member Posts: 69
    Your salesman confirms that the 05/06 Avalon will be released in early 2005, similar to when Toyota released the 2003 Corolla in early 2002. From my understanding, the Toyota Crown is the japanese version of the Lexus LS 430. I did note some similarities with the tail lights on the Toyota Crown Concept and what I am able to see from the MT spied Avalon tail lights. I also believe the Toyota Crown Concept is not the redesigned Avalon. We will have to wait for the coming months to get more concrete information.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    I had never seen those pictures before.. if indeed that is where the avalon is headed then I'm getting excited!
  • coug2coug2 Member Posts: 34
    Hello Folks -

    My wife wants a new car and test drove the 04 Avalon yesterday. Any advice on whether we should wait for the 05 to come out? I liked the 04 - especially the room. Nonetheless, I would prefer to have a "newer" model, everything else equal. I'm also concerned about buying a car in the first model year. I did, however, buy the first Sequoia our dealership had (but that was basically a Tundra underneath).

    Any comments?
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    So...does anyone have any "secret" embargoed pics??? :-P just wondering...
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    While anything is possible in the first year of a new model, there will be a lot of Camry and Lexus 330 in the new Avalon.

    And I'm sure there will be something in the '05 you wish you had.
  • solara00solara00 Member Posts: 81
    I was pretty upbeat thinking that the link my Toyota salesman gave me might show something close to what the 05 Avalon would be like and look like. He said this was the picture and link given to the dealerships at their September 03 meeting in reference to the coming Avalon.

    But the more I look into this (and possibly wait until 05 for the new Avalon), the more I think this is bad info.

    From what I read the Crown Concept is more what the next generation of Lexus will be, not the Avalon. I also read that the Crown sold in Japan is really their top-of-the-line luxury auto, aka Lexus, not a high-end Toyota.

    So all that that link referred to may have more to do with the 06 GS Lexus than the 05 Avalon. While I think the 05 Avalon may be worth the wait, I'm not sure it will be a radical change from what the current model is. I hope I'm wrong.

    Can anyone confirm that the Toyota Crown is more Lexus than Avalon?
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    "From my understanding, the Toyota Crown is the japanese version of the Lexus LS 430."

    This is not true. The Japanese version of the LS has always been the Celsior. Starting in a few years this will change as all Lexus models will be Lexuses in Japan and elsewhere as they get redesigned.

    Also, the Crown has nothing to do with Lexus. All future Lexus models will use the new Lexus-specific exterior styling (which the Crown does not have) and will be badged as Lexus worldwide, even in Japan (again, the Crown does not have). So far, the only vehicles shown to the public that have this styling are the LF-S concept sedan, LF-X crossover concept and next-generation GS production car. The coupe concept to be shown at the NY Auto Show will be the next in line.
  • sadlermdsadlermd Member Posts: 8
    Solara00:

    I want to believe the reason Toyota currently displays the Crown Concept on their website is because it is in fact the replacement for the Avalon!

    Your message has given me hope...

    http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/crown.html
  • sadlermdsadlermd Member Posts: 8
    Hi all:

    Here is a link you may enjoy.

    http://response.jp/event/tms2003/list/toy_crown.html
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    If that is the new avalon... then IMO toyota has another hit on its hands.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Doubt it since the Crown shares most parts with the GS, it would eat into sales.
  • andy71andy71 Member Posts: 96
    The Crown is RWD not FWD.
  • sadlermdsadlermd Member Posts: 8
    I suspect that BMW, Acura, Mercedes, Nissan, Infiniti, etc. would also feel a bite in their sales as well :-)
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    I notice here that several people base their ideas on the new Avalon with what Toyota has already done.

    With respect, I think that this is not a good indicator of the future. I have finished reading The Toyota Way, which is a business book on the principles of Toyota. There are two chapters at the beginning of the book that talk about the genesis of the original Lexus 400 and of the Prius.

    What I get from the chapter on the Prius is that it was a test for making Toyotas for the new century. We know for sure that there is a (relatively) large hybrid engine on the way for at least the Lexus 330. My impression is that Toyota is about to change from a relatively conservative car maker into one distinguished by its advanced technology.

    When you consider how much each Toyota car depends on another, the likely outcome is that things will change quickly. I would not be very surprised if the Toyota line-up for 2007 is considerably different from what they have now.
  • solara00solara00 Member Posts: 81
    I guess we'll all just have to wait for 9 months. I will say if the 05 Avalon is anything like the Toyota link describing the Crown Concept, then I'd be very interested.

    I like the looks better and the new features, if available, would make this a car worth of consideration.

    I hadn't heard of the Celsior, so I guess I'll have to look that up.
  • teereevesteereeves Member Posts: 69
    The Crown Concept's innovative styling and superior driving performance makes a shift in the Crown's concept of being "stationary" to being "active," raising the traditional feeling of hospitality to the world's highest level so as to propose the ideal for a next-generation luxury class sedan.

    Key words are: "to propose the ideal for a next-generation luxury class sedan"

    Those words points to the fact that 05/06 Avalon is not the Crown Concept. The Avalon is not a luxury car, unless Toyota has plans to move it into the $40K and up market.
  • warakawaraka Member Posts: 10
    teereeves wrote
    The Avalon is not a luxury car, unless Toyota has plans to move it into the $40K and up market

    Teereeves, I disagree, the Avalon XLS is a luxury car at a budget price. Compared to pretenders like the Volvo S-80, Saab 9-5, Infinti M45 and Acura RL the Avalon is a genuine luxury car. It is a poor man's Lexus or to say it differently, it is a Lexus with a Toyota badge.

    In terms of evolution, Toyota should make only incremental changes. For example, a sleeker externior design, a better and more intuitive NAV system, thicker glass windows, a five-speed automatic transmission system at 250 hp and 17-inch tire option.

    Toyota should resist adding those superfluous gadgets that adds to cost but not to function or performance such as rear-wheel drive, HID lights and all-wheel drive.
  • teereevesteereeves Member Posts: 69
    I agree that the Avalon can be viewed as a poor man's Lexus LS. I have always viewed the Avalon that way, that is why I bought one several years ago.

    But here is were I disagree, the auto industry sedan classifications are Family, Upscale, Large, and Luxury. The Avalon is considered a Large sedan, not an Upscale or Luxury sedan. I love the Avalon, but I can't see Toyota packing the Crown Concept features in the next redesigned Avalon without increasing the price dramatically.

    Definitely, the look of the interior and exterior of a Large sedan can appear to be luxurious.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    "Compared to pretenders like the Volvo S-80, Saab 9-5, Infinti M45 and Acura RL the Avalon is a genuine luxury car."

    Do you care to elaborate on this? What does the Avalon have that those cars don't? I'm not following your logic here.

    "Toyota should resist adding those superfluous gadgets that adds to cost but not to function or performance such as rear-wheel drive, HID lights and all-wheel drive."

    RWD does not add to the cost of a vehicle, it is simply different than FWD. And RWD definitely adds to performance since it balances the weight of the car, helps "push" you through turns and prevents torque steer during acceleration. You don't need to worry here because the Avalon will stay FWD. As for HID lights and AWD, these are not superfluous gadgets as you call them. They are key safety features and most certainly functional.

    I have HID on my Lexus and have a very hard time driving cars without HID at night (rental cars, my girlfriend's car, etc.). Once you have a car with HID you'll notice how much more you can see and will probably never want to go back to standard headlights again.

    And AWD can be very important when driving in parts of the country that get snow. Further, many times AWD is optional and therefore you only pay for it if you want/need it.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    How are the Infiniti M45, Volvo S40, Saab 9-5, and Acura RL NOT luxury cars?
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    >> It is a poor man's Lexus or to say it differently, it is a Lexus with a Toyota badge.

    Since giving up my Lexus ES300 for an Avalon I've thought a lot about this.

    My overall view is that the two cars are about the same, and I bought the Avalon because I wanted a bigger car (and then I lost 80 pounds, so the extra space wasn't necessary).

    But in terms of what you get, I can see how the Avalon could be Lexus-ized. The Avalon is noisier, and thicker glass and better engine mounts could bring that down. But for some reason there is less wind noise in the Avalon, so just when you think the noise will rise, it stays quiet. But in the Lexus I never noticed engine noise.

    I also think the suspension on the Avalon is a little less refined than the Lexus. We all agree that the Avalon's road-holding could improve. I was often reminded of driving a sports car with the Lexus, but not yet with the Avalon.

    However, all these differences are from someone who was looking hard at the changes. I've never regretted making the move to the Avalon.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Which MY was your last ES? Makes a difference.

    ~alpha
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Hi waraka - I noticed you're a fairly new member, so welcome to Town Hall. Your profile hints that you're shopping, so I hope you find some helpful opinions around here.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    Mine was a 1977 but at the beginning of 2003 I test drove a new shape Lexus and an Avalon one after the other.
  • warakawaraka Member Posts: 10
    I am new member, sort of. In changing over to my new computer and new ISP I lost my password in the process, so here I am as waraka.

    Well, after a long four hour guest drive I bought an Avalon XLS (silver spruce) and so far I am pretty satisfied with my purchase.

    Regarding my earlier comments on luxury car pretenders, I said that because these cars are in my family and they don't match up to the Avalon.

    There is one down side to the Toyota nameplate though. I felt a little embarrassed at a fancy hotel dinner when the valet parking attendant asked what I was driving and I replied a Toyota. Unlike the deliberate and pampered attention he showered on the Mercedes Benz, BMW and Lexus patrons, he treated me like a lump of protoplasm.

    Next time?.....it will probably be a Lexus LS.
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    >> There is one down side to the Toyota nameplate though. I felt a little embarrassed at a fancy hotel dinner when the valet parking attendant asked what I was driving and I replied a Toyota. Unlike the deliberate and pampered attention he showered on the Mercedes Benz, BMW and Lexus patrons, he treated me like a lump of protoplasm.

    I would have said, "It's a bit large! Are you sure you can manage it?"
  • mcclearyflmcclearyfl Member Posts: 149
    >> There is one down side to the Toyota nameplate though. I felt a little embarrassed at a fancy hotel dinner when the valet parking attendant asked what I was driving and I replied a Toyota. Unlike the deliberate and pampered attention he showered on the Mercedes Benz, BMW and Lexus patrons, he treated me like a lump of protoplasm.>>

    Can someone tell me when the opinions of protoplasmic parking attendants became important? Hey, buddy, can you spell "NO TIP"?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Hey, buddy, can you spell "NO TIP"?

    Probably not consistently :)

    You can't always tell what kind of $$ or class someone's got by the vehicle they're driving. When I pull up in my Chrysler minivan, a valet attendant with good customer service skills will treat me the same as he/she treats the Jag driver.

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  • bucky1bucky1 Member Posts: 20
    Toyota has just put this on the Internet. You will need an Adobe reader. Pages 49-50 may be of interest. The Crown model IS NOT within the Lexus Product Lineup. Neither are several other Toyota models on which the pending 2005 Avalon could be based. Interestingly, the Avalon is missing from the pictures of the Toyota Product Lineup.

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/pdf/toyota_world/TOYOTA-PDF.pdf
  • pmcb48pmcb48 Member Posts: 192
    An interesting brochure. I did find the Avalon listed. Halfway down the pictures of vehicles (most of which I've never heard of), there is one for the PRONARD (AVALON).
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    I've changed the discussion title given that we've drifted away from discussion just the body style and are now talking about all of the possible changes.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • mcclearyflmcclearyfl Member Posts: 149
    I logged on to a Russian magazine site where a photo of a car's side view was simply described as "2005 Avalon". Whether it is accurate is another story, but I was surprised how much the car resembled a Chrysler 300M, and when I placed a photo of the current 04 Avalon alongside I could easily "morph" the two pictures.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    Toyota WILL produce a 3.5L V6 engine at its Georgetown plant. It SHOULD be used in the Avalon. There was a meeting at the plant today for team members. Apparently it will offer more horsepower, will be cheaper to build, will require fewer workers to make, and the launch of it will be costing big $$$ for the facility.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    So how does this all work with the existing engines produced at TMMK? Im guessing the 210 hp 3.0L now used exclusively in Camry LE V6, XLE V6 and Avalons is on its way out? And what of the 3.3L engine? Id be thoroughly impressed if this has been a "stopgap" engine all the while and Toyota will move Camry based vehicles to this new and somewhat mythic 3.5L. Or will the Avalon be the lone Toyota/Lexus moving to the 3.5L for 2005/2006?

    ~alpha
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    I can't remember exactly where I saw it all, but on Toyota websites it was announced that the 3.5 will be in what is now the Lexus RX 330. It will be a hybrid engine.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    From what I heard, it sounded like the 3.3L was a stopgap, but I can't confirm that. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3.3L lives on, unless the 3.5 is an amazing improvement performance-wise and economically.
  • seekperfectcarseekperfectcar Member Posts: 5
    Maybe you guys are ahead of me and have seen this already.

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6957
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Yup, we've all seen that pic. Thanks for showing it to us though! BTW, that was only an artist rendering, but I don't want to get into that AGAIN. LOL
  • andy71andy71 Member Posts: 96
    Being the owner of a 04 Camry SE V6, I can tell you all that the engine has way more than enough power I could ever use. Strong acceleration, strong passing power is there in the 3.3L engine. Really, how much more power could people use given the fact that legally you cannot drive more than 70 mph ? My Camry could cruise all day at 90 mph without breaking a sweat. I think this horsepower race is becoming downright silly. I wouldn't be surprised if ten years from now Toyota offers a 500 Hp Avalon.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Excellent point with the HP thing. It's more about bragging rights than actual need. The classic "mine is bigger and better than yours" hang-up.
  • fndlyfmrflyrfndlyfmrflyr Member Posts: 668
    While I agree that many of the engines in today's cars provide more than adequate performance a large engine usually means more torque available at a lower engine speed. This helps with towing, heavy loads, and hills. Under these conditions the larger engine, turning slower than the smaller engine, can give better performance and sometimes better economy too. The smaller, but high horsepower (meaning you need to down shift more = more rpm), engine can give very good full throttle performance (great passing times, good 1/4 mile times) but doesn't do as well under normal driving's small part throttle operation.

    With cars growing bigger and the same engine usually being used in several sizes of cars it will make economic sense to make a bigger engine rather than have different engine sizes for different cars.

    The current Avalon weighs a couple of hundred pounds more than my 96. The 2005 will probably add another couple of hundred pounds - maybe more if it has a FWD option.

    My Avalon, with about 190 hp does fine, though it could use more power when there is five aboard.

    If my Avalon had a five speed transmission, with a deeper overdrive, it would need more engine or it would be very sluggish on freeways (it isn't with the four speed transmission).
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "If my Avalon had a five speed transmission, with a deeper overdrive, it would need more engine or it would be very sluggish on freeways (it isn't with the four speed transmission). "

    That is a rather dramatic overstatement. Many vehicles with 5 speed autos do not loaf around haplessly on the highway, as you seem to imply. The 5th gear usually drops crusing RPM by less than or about 500 revs, hardly dramatic. Additionally, if downshifts are prompt and imperceptible, it is not necessarily true that a vehilce feel sluggish on the highway. Go drive an Accord 5 speed auto, and tell me there is any hint of laziness at 75 MPH. (I use this vehicle, because it has 160 hp and 161 foot pounds... to elaborate on my point).

    ~alpha
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