2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

gschultz3 · March 2005

My opinion only, but I have read the same thing about Nav systems on Forums for the past 4 years. I really don't feel there is an issue with how they get you from here to there. I have used portables, cheap computer based systems, $5,000 third party integrated (DVD, TV, Audio, Sirius systems), Honda, Nissan, BMW, Volvo and they all worked.

The most important issue is ease of use. I feel the top end integrated systems are at the top but the cost is also at the top ..... plus you must replace the audio system in a new car. The Honda system is probably the best automobile manufacturer installed system. I personally don't like the portables which must find a home some place on the dash or installed off the floor. I only use cordless radar detectors because I hate to deal with the wires! Obviously clutter isn't a problem for others.

Unless you drive for your employer or your own business Nav systems have limited utility. Once you have entered all of the remote places that are hard to find most people don't enter new locations that frequently. But when you need them they are very useful. I have come to the conclusion that even though it is harder to enter addresses with a joy stick it really isn't very important over the long haul.

While screen size is a factor the portables work just fine since you really don't need to read whats on the screen very often ... and then only miles, street names and turns. More important than size is the location .... if the sun gets on the LCD screen it is not readable .... portables, Volvo and others.

Unfortunately the Nav systems installed by the automobile manufacturers are approved by marketing guys who decide that Lexus must be better than Toyota so options are removed even if it doesn't affect the cost. I had the same Nav system in a 350Z, G35 and FX45 but they all had minor differences. I like the idea that the Nav screen can be used to display other information and the equipment can be used for other purposes at a low incremental cost. I look forward to the time when the auto industry uses the full capability of the screen and the equipment. More and more LCD's are being installed without Nav systems so you don't need to buy a car with Nav to enjoy some of this technology.

I won't buy a car without Nav but I also won't buy a car because it has the best Nav system. Like VCR's and computers you must read the manual and experiment to take advantage of Nav technology. It works but a user must realize that the size and complexity of the road system makes it impossible to develop a program which works in all circumstances. I know many people who buy systems and swear they don't work and never use them ..... same as computers and VCR's.

Based on my experience buying cars only Acura (HONDA) salespeople knew much about the Nav system and that may be one of the reasons car buyers find them easier to use???? I never tried the Nav system in the Avalon before I purchased it! It will work. I'm addicted to new things so I love my cooled seats, mirror turn signal LED's, power sunshade, keyless starter, power driver seat extension. I had the laser cruise control on my FX45 but never used it so I didn't get it on the Avalon.

What Toyota left out of the Avalon:
Backup Camera Lexus or detectors
Adaptive headlights Lexus
Blind spot detectors (or camera) Volvo
Adaptive suspension Lexus

gschultz3 · March 2005

pmcb48 · March 2005

There are 3 interior leather colors in the XLS, not 2: Ivory, Light Grey, and Graphite. These are colors 4, 5,and 6 in the Avalon brochure. The colors in the brochure give a reasonable idea of the real colors.

pmcb48 · March 2005

I'm glad it helped; you must have very sensitive ears. The XLS I test drove was very quiet in terms of wind noise. I plan to get undercoating on my Limited, more for rust prevention on suspension, etc. with sound deadening as a bonus.

everest · March 2005

I test drove an Avalon XL today. After the test drive this vehicle was parked right next to an XLS with identical exterior and interior color.

Mine was not an extensive drive or an in depth study by any means.

I felt that XL interior looked nice. Even with cloths, XL looked upscale [XLS felt luxurious].

Compared to my 2003 Camry (4-cyl, XLE), this one was quite lively, with no transmission hesitation. It was comparably quiet and soft. The thing about this beast is its power and expansiveness. I didn't feel any torque steer, even in situations where it might be generated. There is no question that it can be a fun car on express ways, due to its power. Although, I didn't drive it in winding roads, to evaluate the other side of fun.

Among the things I liked about XL, besides its price, is its 16" wheel and no moonroof. No moonroof means that I can have a nice DVD system installed way forward. I bet the seats at the rear of this vehicle would indeed make it a nice moving studio

-

The manager told me that he was given a demo by Toyota on the effectiveness of the stability control in an Avalon. He appeared to be impressed.

He didn't know whether the 2006 XL will be offered with stability control as an option.

I am inclined to wait for the XL to get stability control option. I will then take an extensive test drive.

solara00 · March 2005

Probably can't center it because of states that require the front license plate. That would be my guess.

pmcb48 · March 2005

"I won't buy a car without Nav but I also won't buy a car because it has the best Nav system. Like VCR's and computers you must read the manual and experiment to take advantage of Nav technology. It works but a user must realize that the size and complexity of the road system makes it impossible to develop a program which works in all circumstances. I know many people who buy systems and swear they don't work and never use them ..... same as computers and VCR's."

Your comments are exactly in sync with mine on the NAV system. I like the Avalon, and want an built-in system. So I'll live with whatever system the Avalon comes with, and make it work. Per the Avalon Introduction brochure, this is a "Generation 4" system with advanced graphics and operating system, so it must be better than the one in my 2004 Sienna, which is OK, but apparently not as good as the Acura/Honda system.

Most people seem to define "user friendly" as never having to read the manual, so I'm with you there too. Some manual time is inevitable. I've been reasonably satisfied with the Toyota system, and while the Honda system may be better, it doesn't come in Toyotas. We need to keep our priorities straight.

mikeroch · March 2005

There are actually only Ivory and Graphite available in the XLS in Canada, and the Dark Charcoal is reserved for the Touring only (which is the only other model available here).

There is a picture of an interior in our brochure which looks like it could be the Ivory, but unfortunately it is not labelled (!).

If anyone can post some "definite" Ivory interior pics I would appreciate it. (It's not vital however

Perhaps those of you who have owned a Maxima or were considering one versus the new Avalon could give me some thoughts on that "choice" as well.

Thanks.

gschultz3 · March 2005

I just purchased an Avalon LTD and the Maxima and the Acura TL were on my short list. I currently have a 350Z and an Infiniti FX45 .... the FX45 has been sold on Swapalease because I can't transfer my lease to New York state from Florida. I also had an Infiniti G35 prior to leasing the FX45.

I went to see the Avalon first and decided I didn't have to go further. I loved my G35 despite it's marginal interior quality and poor seats. It was just fun to drive. My 350Z has been trouble free except for the tires but I'm not impressed with the build quality either .... interior is marginal - OK and the paint chips easily especially the front end. My FX45 could have been a Volvo XC90, Lexus 330 or a BMW X5??? I like it but the interior is not up to the standards of a $55,000 MSRP SUV. I have doubts about Nissans ability to build quality cars with marginal materials???? They have done great on the performance side.

I almost purchased an Acura TL when I got my G35.
Impressed with the interior, performance OK, design questionable. It's better in 2005 but still doesn't get me excited.

My opinion: Avalon Acura Maxima

Quality Reputation 8 7 6
Interior 8 8 5
Design 8 7 8
Size 9 7 7
HP/Torque 9 8 8
Fun to Drive 7 8 8
Wife* 9 7 8
Options 9 8 7
Price 8 8 9
Turning Diameter 9 7 7
Safety (Guess) 9 8 8
Nav Sys 7 9 7

*My wife wants comfort not performance.

I thought Toyota's were boring but I like the Avalon design. The size is important and the interior impressed me. I like the options included with the Avalon keyless entry, outside mirrors etc. The HP was right. I can live with 6.5 sec. to 60mph. Handing OK. In the end I guess it was HP, size and comfort..... 40" legroom back seat equals almost any car! I'm 63 so maybe Toyota knew what they were doing. This is my first Toyota.

marker · March 2005

Interesting about the wind noise. Did you have the dealer perform the undercoating/ soundproofing? Where and what did they add?
Thank you.

mikes. · March 2005

I've stated several times that I'm 6'5" and that I don't have a problem, at all, with the interior headroom in either the front seat or back.

But I got to wondering if some here weren't complaining about the headroom when entering or exiting the vehicle. I do have to bend my back some and roll my chin down to my chest when I get in. A simple head duck when I get out.

Is this what some are complaining about?

jl618 · March 2005

After spending more than an hour yesterday reviewing and working with the Avalon Nav system, I no longer have any reservations about getting that option. It may not be as intuitive as the Honda/Acura system, but once you force yourself to dig into the manual and go through the proper matrix a few times it is quite nice. Because my wife was listening to the radio I didn't give the voice commands a workout. That should further simplify procedures. The screen size may not be as large as some, however the resolution is much better than that I observed in the Odyssey Touring.

My wife really likes the display, and location, in particular since she can't see the Garmin where I have it in my current vehicle. It was a sunny day, but no wash-out.

The joystick is very easy to get used to - reminds me of my years in the F/A-18 Hornet. It all becomes second nature. The real test will be how easy/difficult it is to program in all of the clubs!

jl618 · March 2005

"I won't buy a car without Nav but I also won't buy a car because it has the best Nav system......"

"Based on my experience buying cars only Acura (HONDA) salespeople knew much about the Nav system and that may be one of the reasons car buyers find them easier to use...."

Well said.

mackabee · March 2005

pricecutter, let's not confuse the legitimate advertising fee on the invoice known as TDA with the advertising fee some dealers add to their negotiated price with you. I've known dealers up in the northeast are notorious for doing this. It really doesn't matter whether you negotiate from invoice or down from MSRP does it? As long as both parties are happy at the end.
: )
Mackabee

mackabee · March 2005

It's all a matter of personal preference and opinion. I prefer the Toyota/Lexus systems over the Honda/Acura. James Healy of USA TODAY seems to prefer them too. I'm no James Healy but he seems to be pretty fair when testing vehicles for that organization.
Mackabee

buzz123 · March 2005

Thanks for your post about the XL! I'm interested in the XL also, but local dealers still don't have any yet. Glad you liked the cloth. I prefer cloth instead of leather because I live in New York State and this time of year it gets pretty cold. I know you can get leather seats that are heated/ventilated, but I've got a bad back, and I'm worried that this system would decrease the comfort of the seats. Probably wouldn't be noticeable to most drivers, but it might be to me. The DVD sounds like a great idea. My wife & I don't have kids yet, but I'm sure we will soon enough and that will be great for them. In the mean time, we do have a couple of nephews who would enjoy it. I'll have to keep that in mind when I get mine.
I agree with you about the VSC. I'm happy with everything I've read about the XL. The only negative is no VSC! Fortunately, I don't need the car right away, but I will in 06 and am hoping they add it by then.

star51 · March 2005

"Probably can't center it because of states that require the front license plate."

Good point, Solara00; that's a good reason for it to be off-center.

mackabee · March 2005

It helps alot if you read the owner's manuals. You'd be amazed how many customers trade in their vehicles and the owner's manuals are still in the glove compartment in the same condition as they left the dealership.
Mackabee

mackabee · March 2005

You'll probably get 6k in a trade depending on how the market in your area is. In our area Avalons are soft. There's a dealer down the street from our store that has three 99 XLS with mileage varying from 45k, 65k, and 75k all going for $8990.00 internet price. Matter of fact I was interested in the pearl with with 65k and sent in an info request and nobody contacted me. Ended up buying a 97 Camry at my store for a song and dance.
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee

dan41 · March 2005

Congrats on your new Limited and the wait will be worth it. We have not only the same model, but the same color, too. I never owned and never thought I would own a white car, but after seeing the Blizzard Pear White in person, I was more than happy to pay the few hundred extra Toyota charges for this color.

This is our fourth Toyota ( last car was a black 2003 Lexus GS300 ), and each one has proven to be reliable, comfortable and held its value better than most cars.

Regarding the Nav, I spent quite a bit of time yesterday reading the nav manual and it was well worth it. The more I use this system, the more I'm enjoying it.

Regards:
Dan

clipper1 · March 2005

Sorry -- The brochure is way off -- The graphite is VERY-VERY light.

The Toyota Rep in Florida -- told me to throw away the brochure -- it has many mistakes -- interior color, one of them.

mastro · March 2005

I started down the path of purchasing an Avalon but decided to change directions as I thought about it being the first year of a redesigned model and the fact that dealers were not willing to deal.

Well, after changing direction I had a dealership come back with the following deal for a Limited with VSC, XM and floor mats:

MSRP w/ destination: $35,378
Deal: $34,100

According to Edmunds it's about $600 below TMV...but still several thousand over invoice.

I've got a nice deal in the works on an Acura TL for about $500 over invoice.

Faced with a tough decision. Does the deal on the Limited sound good enough to walk away from the TL? Thanks.

pat · March 2005

I think the issue is less about the difference from invoice for either vehicle as it is about what you like and what you feel each is worth. TMV is a tool to help you know an average of what others are paying in your area.

When you get right down to it, what it costs you and what pleasure it gives you is what really matters, isn't it? That's what I would focus on - I wouldn't see any need to worry about how the price you pay relates to either "invoice" or MSRP.

douglas1 · March 2005

I have had my Phantom Gray Limited w/graphite interior for almost 24 hours. When I picked it up it was on the showroom floor with about half a dozen people around it drooling. I've driven it about 100 miles and this car is fantastic. Compared to my 2001 XLS which I traded in this new Avalon had tons more power, handles significantly better, is quieter and the stereo is the best I have heard in any car. This car is better in every way that my 01 and I have loved my 01 for the past 4 1/2 years.

I'm sure I'll find some nits soon but right now I can't find enough positive adjectives to describe this car. I think Toyota has hit a home run.

One small nit - no coin holder. Now I have a dresser top covered in quarters, nickels and dimes and no where to put them.

gschultz3 · March 2005

The Lexus Nav system is great but thats not what is in the Avalon. I've used one on a RX330. Not sure about the older Toyota systems but thought the were OK. The Avalon system is not touch sceen which makes entering addresses "much" easier. I don't have any experience with voice entry except on computers. I'm glad it's in the Avalon but doubt it will help enter addresses.

mastro · March 2005

Thanks Pat. The problem is, I liked both cars very much and would be happy with either. I guess I'm coming down to buying the one I feel I am getting the best deal on. The other benefit with the TL is that first year redesign issues have been dealt with.

I'll probably go with the TL and then, in a few years, take another look at the Avalon. This will allow for the first year redesign issues to get resolved and, in the meanwhile, the kids will be a little bigger, and the dealerships will be more open to dealing.

Thanks for the feedback.

pat · March 2005

Others may have more to say, but good luck either way. In case you haven't found it, here is a link to the TL discussion: Acura TL.

Let us know what happens!

mastro · March 2005

Thanks Pat. I've got shortcuts on the computer for the Avalon and TL sites...along with about 4 or 5 others! I attribute the deal I got on the TL directly to the site. This is a great service you folks provide. Thanks for all the help.

gschultz3 · March 2005

I am 6'4" and find the headroom adequate in the back and the front of the Avalon OK. I have a longer than average torso so headroom is my #1 priority when I look for cars. The biggest problem I have is how the view is from the drivers seat .... my head may fit but the roof line is too low to see out. The Cadillac CTS/STS block my view. The Toyota Prius is really poor in this regard! It was still fun to drive. The salesman said he would get in trouble if his boss knew I was just driving it for fun .... I guess his boss doesn't understand salesmanship. I was buying an Avalon!

gschultz3 · March 2005

I sure agree with you. Basically most cars of the same class are equal in price if you break down all of the options included. The differences in what buyers pay is also dependent on supply and demand in the area. If it was all about price why would anyone ever buy a Lexus, BMW, Cadillac, etc.

ederzawiec · March 2005

I'm just over 6'1". It is not an issue of exit and entry in my case. My head just touches the roof in the rear seat and has less than an inch clearance on an XLS with Moonroof in the driver's seat. (If I put my hand on top of my head, the hand touches the roof). I'm pretty sure if I go over a significant bump while driving, my head will hit.

Compare this to my Passat where I have 3 inches of clearance in the driver's seat... For a "large" sedan, I'm disappointed with this aspect of the Avalon design. However, I haven't seen the XL or Touring without the moonroof and am hoping it will provide some extra clearance.

I'm a bit frustrated that so few sedans seem to address the needs of tall people. It's not something that can be addressed with an aftermarket fix.

pmcb48 · March 2005

"I liked both cars very much and would be happy with either. I guess I'm coming down to buying the one I feel I am getting the best deal on. The other benefit with the TL is that first year redesign issues have been dealt with."
You may like both apples and oranges, but if you can only buy one, there is usually one you like a little better. I would try to get the best deal on the one I truly liked better, rather than going with the best deal and maybe ending up with a car I didn't ultimately like as much. Sometimes you have to let your heart overrule your wallet.

pat · March 2005

Folks tend to debate headroom based on absolute height. I think the reason that some taller drivers have no issue with headroom in any given vehicle versus some shorter drivers who do is because height is not the issue, torso length is. When folks of similar height also have a similar inseam length, they seem to agree more often on headroom than when they compare height alone.

Just an observation ...

pmcb48 · March 2005

Re the coinholder: you can buy a nice one at any auto store, and put it (may already have adhesive backing) in one of the console storage compartments. That's where they usually are anyway. Congratulations on your new Limited! I'm about 6 weeks (no definite date yet) from mine.

pmcb48 · March 2005

"Probably can't center it because of states that require the front license plate."

The front license plate goes on the bumper, and wouldn't block the sensor port. I think it's off-center more to make it less noticeable than it would be in a centered location.

gschultz3 · March 2005

Seems incredible that you don't fit. I'm 6'4" with only 32.5" pants inseam and I fit OK. Did you lower the seat? It has a significant adjustment down.

barclay3 · March 2005

I haven't heard the JBL radio yet. For those of you that have, how does it sound?

Mackabee (or anyone)...have you heard about any first year production problems yet. My 95 Avalon was first year and the only problem I had was wind noise which was fixed.

I'm 5'7' with a 29" inseam - I raised the seat all the way up when I took it for a test drive and I was about 1" to 2" from the roof.

gschultz3 · March 2005

Good luck. I preferred the Avalon due to it's size, HP, options (LTD) and maybe more comfortable ride. The Acura is more sporty and has a 4-year warranty. I have never had a problem buying first year cars. This could be the first time. Good luck with your TL.

ederzawiec · March 2005

No, I did not adjust the seat all the way down. It was closer to the Max hight where my legs felt comfortable.

My inseam is 33"

ronharv · March 2005

motownusa asked, "Did the second Avalon you test drove have traction control? That might explain the difference in acceleration."

Good point. And the answer is that I have no idea, although I hope it didn't. I'd like to think that the XL I ordered accelerates smoothly enough so that I don't have to get my deposit returned.

mikeroch · March 2005

Thanks gschultz3.

I agree with almost all of your comments, especially about the Avalon. (Can't comment on the other Nissan products you mention, but we found the Maxima interior to be nice and well put together, but as I mentioned earlier, odd. You have more experience with their products however, obviously

Drove the TL also, interior really nice (especially the leather in carmel colour!!), but performance was a disapointment, and not enough room inside. (BTW, also drove the RL, interior very nice but handling not as "awesome" as I expected from all the press, etc. - and of course another approx 30k CDN fully loaded (!) over the Max and Avalon).

You're right about Nissan performance, I don't know how they get the Maxima to drive and handle like it does!! - when I test drove it, I was very impressed and couldn't believe how sports car like it was!!!! It was a blast to drive.

Thanks again.

pricecutter · March 2005

I thought the following comment. from the internet, might be helpful regarding TDA advertising charges:
This fee is the equivalent of a franchise fee that a McDonalds restaurant might pay. A certain percentage of total sales are paid in to a fund for advertising for all stores.
It's not that the fee isn't negotiable, but it is part of the dealers cost for the vehicle. Some invoice charges are not legitimate, like Holdback and Finance Reserve.
Find out more at www.dealertricks.com

pricecutter · March 2005

Mack,

See my latest comments on Advertising on Charges for Advertising. Just posted.

Thanks for response.

solara00 · March 2005

pmcb48: You might be right on the Avalon, but on my Camry the license plate hangs down about 1.5 inches below the bumper and would block a sensor like this. Maybe it wouldn't on the Avalon.

Assuming you are correct about the Avalon - that the license plate would not go below the bumper - then putting the sensor off-center makes it MORE NOTICEABLE rather than less noticeable. I'd say if Toyota had their druthers, they'd put the sensor in the middle of the car so it WOULDN'T be noticed.

Therefore, I think there is some reason (e.g. the license plate) that caused Toyota to put it off-center.

Nothing to argue about, but it would be interesting to know the real reason....

pmcb48 · March 2005

Which do you notice more, things in the middle of a picture, or things at the edge of a picture? And since we're not arguing, there's no need to SHOUT (that's what capital letters mean). Since Toyota didn't ask for my opinion, you may be right. :-)

doninil · March 2005

The leasing company we use at work just received the order for my new XLS last Thursday . . . Blizzard Pearl with Graphite (and hopefully the darker wood). Anyone have any idea how long it's taking for new orders?

douglas1 · March 2005

I think the auto headlights are set too sensitive. The headlights come on when I pull into my garage even when it's sunny outside and plenty of light in the garage. When the headlights come on the won't go out when I turn off the engine or open and close the door. I have to turn the switch to DRL off.

Can I adjust the sensitivity myself, if so how, or am I going to have to go back to the dealer?

buckeye6 · March 2005

The undercoating was not done by the dealer, they could not do the thing I wanted done. Z-bart dealer did it.
In regards to my sensitive ears, I think it matters where you come from to this Avalon. I came from a 2004 Avalon, which is very quiet and smooth. I wanted this Avalon to be better, at least equal, but was a little dissappointed at first. I have fallen in love with the new one, but can't forget the old one.
I HAVE TO DO THIS AND MAYBE IT DOESN'T MATTER TO YOU PEOPLE BUT I MUST TELL YOU - NISSON IS LARGELY FRENCH OWNED. Sorry, had to do it.

pmcb48 · March 2005

Take Mackabee's advice and read your owner's manual about the headlights. In the Auto setting they'll go off automatically shortly after you get out of the car. In my Sienna (haven't got my Avalon yet) I turn my headlight setting to the auto setting only in late afternoon.

mackabee · March 2005

gschultz3, Pmcb48 is also getting an Avalon LTD, Blue Mirage with Ivory interior. Thanks to moi.
; )
Mackabee

2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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