2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

motownusa · May 2005

Yes the Avalon is close to perfect. It is the driver's fault (most of the time). :P

badgerfan · May 2005

Ok most of you new Avalon owners are very enthusiastic about your Avalons, but lets face it, no car is perfect, especially for everyone.

The Avalon faults I see, as a non-Avalon owner or enthusiast: Too small a trunk for a car its size. Old technology gooseneck hinges on the trunk lid which further encroach on trunk space. Short rear deck makes accommodating larger items in the trunk difficult. Non-folding rear seats do not allow for cargo expansion. Non folding rear view mirrors. No AWD option. No body side moldings. Covers over dash controls are a silly gimmick. Finally, though Avalon may be inexpensive if classified as a luxury car, it is quite expensive compared to some others in its size class, including Ford Five Hundred and the Non Hemi versions of the 300C, which will limit its market penetration. Though I doubt if Toyota cares much as long as it can keep its prices high to skim off the wealthier customers, and use Camry to compete for the mass market.

The transmission shift issue I will not comment on, except to note there is no doubt Toyota seems to have some shift/hesitation issues with their 5 speed automatics on V-6's on all their front wheel drive vehicles, which may not bother most drivers, but seem to irritate others to no end.

star51 · May 2005

To which I can only add: some owners' exaggeratedly enthusiastic (or defensive?) reaction almost borders on "irrational exuberance", in total denial about ANY fault at all.

motownusa · May 2005

You made some good points. I think AWD would have been a good option to have especially for people living in the snowbelt. The reduced trunk space probably won't be a problem for most owners. As for the price, remember you can buy the XL for around 27 to 28K which IMHO makes it quite a bargain. The Ford 500 is a nice car but the underpowered 3.0L V6 makes it as fast as a slug. I think Ford really screwed up with engine. Personally I would rather have a base Avalon XL than a loaded Five Hundred.

motownusa · May 2005

Nah Avalon is just fine. I think you need driving lesson.

star51 · May 2005

I won't dignify that with a response, but you've proved my point!

motownusa · May 2005

I won't dignify that with a response

I think you just did :P

scoti1 · May 2005

I have posted 6 times (well, now 7) in this forum of over 5500 posts. Each time it has been in response to someone elses post regarding the hesitation issue. I have never seen such a lack of compassion for people having problems with their vehicle than I have seen in this Avalon board! This problem could very well indeed be small, but some of this possibly small (possibly large, we don't know) group of people have come here asking for help with a problem that is very real to them. It appears cold and calloused to say that "I don't have this problem so I don't want you talking about it". It really does rub salt in the wound. I think it is great that Toyota has finally recognized and acknowledged the existence of this problem and is trying to do something about it rather than put blinders on and hope it is small and will just go away, as you seem to be doing.

motownusa · May 2005

Since i have time off of work today and nothing better to do let me respond. If Lexus/Toyota acknowledged that there might be a "problem" that some owners feel regarding the transmission and have come with a TSB than that is very good. That shows they are taking responsibility. I think you have pointed out that TSB for the millionth time now. Btw, the TSB doesn't work for the new Avalon so posting it here is not going to solve anything. And since you don't own the Avalon I am very curious to know as to why you are so interested in the whole thing. Nobody wants to rub salt in the wound but if you are genuinely interested in a solution go to your Lexus dealer, show them the TSB and get your car fixed. But like a scratched record you keep posting the same message over and over again.

badgerfan · May 2005

Like I said, no car is perfect, but I need to point out that 500 SE FWD starts out with MSRP of $22840, and in AWD form $23965. Real world 500 out the door appear to be running about $2K under that, so there is definitely an appreciable price advantage for base 500 vs base Avalon. Yes, base Avalon has more bells and whistles, but it is starting out $4-6K higher as well, so it should have more stuff.

Comparatively speaking the 3.0 duratech equipped 500 is slower than Avalon, but still 0-60 is in the 8-8.5 second range, which just a few years ago would have been considered very acceptable, and still is to those driving family size cars, so the HP race goes (uselessly in my opinion) on.

Once again, no car is perfect and suits everyones needs/wants/budget.

johni · May 2005

For what it's worth, I have noticed the same "mechanical hiccup" at slow speed (approx. 10 mph) mentioned in the USA Today review in my 2005 Limited. I have not noticed any gear hunting or hesitation at higher speeds. If Toyota releases a TSB for the Avalon, I would be interested in seeing if it eliminates the "jerks and shudders".

just__me · May 2005

This is what I said "I think you made your point, how many more posts do you want to post about this, it's over done. Please don't tell me "Just because your car does not hesitate does not mean that the problem is non-existent", because it is non-existent for me. I'm also sure as with many cars some people are making something larger out of nothing." This is what you said ""I don't have this problem so I don't want you talking about it". Thats's not what I said, that's what you said. So with all due respect here you go again over and over again the same thing. Are you trying to convince yourself? We read you loud and clear the first time, and after awhile it's boring. Of course anyone can talk about it and bring it up. But notice most people here who have no agenda relate their problem, some ask for a fix or how to go about it. Okay, I'm off of this topic. In the meantime the Avalon is setting sales records over last year. Notice they aren't even advertising the car on TV anymore. It's selling itself.

scoti1 · May 2005

johni,

A Toyota spokesperson quoted in the April '05 Pittsburgh Post Gazette article stated that "Toyota has announced computer software upgrades that it says should help eliminate hesitation problems in five-speed automatic transmissions in 2002 to 2005 models"

So far, I have only seen a TSB for the 2002 - 2005 Lexus ES300/ES330. From the article it sounds like the plan is to issue one for all 2002 - 2005 models with the 5-speed auto. tranny. So keep on the look-out. Or, you could check and see if your local Lexus dealer can apply the ES330 TSB to the Avalon. As I mentioned earlier, a participant in the Engine Hesitation board has been offered a solenoid replacement/repair to help his hesitation problem.

future1 · May 2005

Too small a trunk for a car its size
Old technology gooseneck hinges on the trunk lid which further encroach on trunk space
Short rear deck makes accommodating larger items in the trunk difficult
Non-folding rear seats do not allow for cargo expansion
Non folding rear view mirrors
No AWD option
No body side moldings
Covers over dash controls are a silly gimmick
Finally, though Avalon may be inexpensive if classified as a luxury car, it is quite expensive compared to some others in its size class, including Ford Five Hundred and the Non Hemi versions of the 300C, which will limit its market penetration.

Here are a few more items:

Stability control not available in XL & Touring
No low tire pressure warning system
Has less front and back headroom than Camry
Joystick-controlled navigation system is more difficult to program and control than touch screen
Defects noted in the rear power sunshade: makes a loud scrubbing noise
The redesigned Lexus ES350 (next Spring?) may devalue the Avalon
Wood grain looks or feels fake (and it is)
Simulated panic stops induced noticeable nosedive, car loses stability under moderately heavy breaking
More road noise than expected from the Avalon
Some imperfections in interior fit and finish
Transmission operates as designed (for 65 year old drivers, that is)

avalonturing05 · May 2005

VOOOOOOMMMMMM---280/Hp ----I just saw a es300,lexus 430 hesitate

Its all been said and done,goodby all -----nothing interesting here :P

I'll miss you Macabee and just me,until the next Hick-up

so long pat its been a pleasure to be erased.

kinzua · May 2005

Avalonkitten,
Know the frustration you are going through. After reading your post we arranged for another test drive at our Toyota dealer. We had previously driven a Touring model and it was that test drive that hooked us into trading a perfectly running 2000 XLS for a Limited. Today I drove the limited and I must say it ran flawlessly. From full stops or accelerating from 10-20 mph the transmission was smooth as silk.
I have read enough on this forum to be convinced that there is a "problem" with the transmission/engine (computer program)

in some 2005 Avalons. What I don't understand is the statement that the computer needs to be trained. I just got off the phone with a friend of mine that has a 2004 Lexus ES330 and he said they told him the same thing.
I read one post that recommended you get a one on one session with the Toyota technician. That makes sense to me.
Good luck and let us know how you make out.

scoti1 · May 2005

And I think the rest of us need to be careful that we don't make folks with different viewpoints feel unwelcome.

Pat_Host, I found this comment in one of your earlier posts and I think it is worthy of bringing up again. I have certainly been made to feel unwelcome by what appears to be a very vocal few who have blown this whole discussion up beyond what it needed to be. My participation today started out with a reply to someone voicing a concern with their hesitating Avalon. There seems to be a recurring theme here to shoot down any messenger with anything negative to say about the '05 Avalon.

just__me · May 2005

avalonturing05, sad to say I'm following you. I have had enough of the repetitive over and over again repetition when there is a wealth of knowledge almost from the beginning in the data base here. Yet every now and then someone joins in for the sake of hearing himself over and over again on the same subject with nothing new. So it's been nice. I assume my friend Ronn has found greener pastures without telling us, at least I hope that is the case meaning I hope he is well. Macabee is one great human being who tells it straight and as honest as one can be and even though he is a Toyota man, he has no agenda and is one wonderful gentleman who I pray as I have that he recovers 100%. I will miss Groza's humor, and MotownUSA who is frustrated for good cause and Havalongavalon for all his hard work, and Mikes for telling it the way it is and Deanie for wonderful honest information , Ronharv, and Loudspeaker and all the rest of the group whether Avalon lovers or not who never had an agenda but shared their honest thoughts without being repetitive, I will miss all of you. And Last but not least, the HOST of this board, PAT WHO IS TRULY AN AMAZING LADY WHO IS ABOVE REPROACH BY BEING SO FAIR. If our politicians were anything like her, Bipartisanship would always rule the day. I truly enjoyed this forum but I think it's served most of it's purpose because it's become highly repetitive. In saying good-bye, I wish everyone well, whether they buy a Humvee or Chrysler or Avalon. Every car has it's faults and you can find something with every car even a rolls-royce. I know I rode in one for many years with a friend, I wouldn't have given you any money if I had it for the Shadow of a car. For me, the Avalon is as perfect as they get and a bargain at it's price. Good Luck to all. I will miss you, your mostly one great bunch of people.

motownusa · May 2005

Secondly, that TSB does not pertain to the Avalon, so let's quit discussing it here Thanks, Pat. That is what I was trying to say all along.

Badgerfan : If Ford introduced the 500 with the all new 3.5L V6 engine with 240+ Hp ( I have heard the 3.5L might be available for 06), I think Ford would have had a winner on its hand and could have given the Avalon a run for its money. But I do agree the deep discount does make the 500 a credible alternative to those who doesn't care too much about 0 to 60 time. The Chrysler 300 looks plain ugly to me. Like a brick on wheel.

impartial · May 2005

I've been reading this Forum for well over a month, and posted messages a couple of times, It's interesting to see how the flavor of the posts has changed ... from mostly cheerleading a few weeks ago, to serious questioning about alleged shortcomings the past few days. I have learned a great deal from Ronn, Just Me, avalontouring05 and others who have shared their experiences. Thanks one and all for your input. But, please, keep it up ... don't give it up just because the tone of the forum has changed. Such change is inevitable on forums like this, and folks like me learn from the good news as well as the not-so-good news (and opinion). As you spend more time with your Avalons, you'll have more experience and new things to tell us.

Postings on this forum helped convince me to buy a new 2005 Avalon Limited. I just took delivery, and I will share any noteworthy experiences I have, good and bad. So far, my wife hasn't let me drive it

but she has let me ride along twice, so that's a start

. So far, ownership has been pure pleasure. What a car!

Impartial

rainh2o · May 2005

impartial,

'Very nicely put.

fin · May 2005

I would agree with *impartial* in post #5522. The comments and thoughts here are generally interesting and informative. Other than the occasional "flame" outbursts, the posts are helpful to many. I am waiting on the '06 year model and certainly want to know everything possible about the '05. Does it "hunt"? Does it "hesitate"? Are the tires round? Whatever....... Comments from owners are always more valuable than from others, for obvious reasons. Good or bad, if you own one, don't keep your experience a secret. Post it. Or how to buy one and where the good prices are. Enjoy the forum.......

kirkendoll · May 2005

Just received my blizzard white limited on 3/5/2005. Paid $500 over invoice.
Also, the warranty was $985 7year/100,000 warranty.
When will the color key mud flaps be available?

scoti1 · May 2005

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef4cdbd

I hope the above link works. I have referenced Edmunds Engine Hesitation board in previous posts, but as Pat has suggested, I am providing a link for those interested in discussing the hesitation problem instead of arguing whether it exists or not.

yurik · May 2005

I am sure anyone who owned Ford ones will never buy it again because of its reliability. One can't even mention Ford next to Toyota. For me, the only comparison could be between Avalon and Lexus LS430

dajab · May 2005

Wow! A lot has changed since I last submitted a post. (Been traveling a whole lot on business.) Since then we have ordered, and received, our new 2005 Avalon, and I wanted to return to the forum to try to contribute again and share some of our experiences.

The car: Limited, fully loaded with everything but the remote starter (don't need it in this warm climate) and the spoiler (don't like spoilers, but appreciate that some do).

The color: Cassis Pearl --- a truly amazing color that reflects the mood of the environment. On a cloudy day, it is a somber maroon; at night it is an elegant near-black; and in the bright California sun, it is nearly a candy-apple red. :shades: My wife (who has 95% of the style between us) is very pleased with her choice in color.

The wait: ordered on about March 14, delivered on April 20. I feel somewhat bad that we didn't have to wait as long as some; perhaps our dealer latched onto a car that had already been scheduled and requested it. Don't have any other explanation.

The price: $1130 under MSRP, not as good as some; not as bad as others; probably very good for Southern California. The trim is truly "Limited": at that time only 22 were being shipped to the 74 dealers in SoCal.

The buying experience: probably not typical. The dealership is a smaller family-owned one, the owner of which I have known for several years. While the sales rep and financial person dealt with the details, after the sale we spent some time talking over old times with the owner, who treated us as if we were the only ones there. (He does this with all his customers.) A few days later we received a personally-written thankyou note from him. The dealership seemed as proud to sell a Limited 2005 Avalon as we were to buy one.

Evaluation of the first 1000 miles: problems all minor so far, and most corrected: biggest problem was a loose wiper blade (fixed); fog lamps are loose, but this doesn't seem to matter; tailpipes, however, seem level; and haven't noticed any seatbelt rattling. Some possible indications of the same transmission issue mentioned above, but rather early to say any more. We did purchase the extended warranty, so with the original and extended ones we are quite covered. We also were careful to follow advice in the manual (and from Macabee) on how to treat a Toyota for the first 1000 miles.

Bugs: also purchased the 5-year paint protection and coating; 800 miles of bugs from our trip up state simply washed off with water; didn't even need soap.

XM radio: had the dealer mount it inside the back window, after reading advice on this forum; reception is fine, and we now have no worry about the antenna being stolen off the trunk.

My $0.02 on recent issues: While I realize that this is an open Avalon forum, as I've been following it over the last several months, I've noticed that it works best when many of the contributors are either avalon owners, serious prospective buyers, or enthusiasts. This provides the most useful information for people trying to keep their car in good shape or avoid problems when buying. This does not exclude discussion of serious issues, however; indeed, knowledge of a potential transmission problem and other issues are very important for new owners. But idle bashing is of limited utility, as it would be on another (e.g., Ford or Buick) forum if someone with no intention of buying the product were to log in and enumerate many of that car's faults (of which I'm sure one could come up with an equal number of subjective complaints, as has been done for the Avalon). In the future, I hope to read many more posts about the transmission issue (and other equally serious ones, if they crop up). However, I also hope to read posts from more very happy Avalon owners, loaded with tips on how they have kept their pride an joy running smooth.

- dajab

littlejohn600 · May 2005

I cannot read the odometer on my LTD during daylight hours because of dim lighting even with the dimmer control fully clockwise. Anybody else having this problem??

pat · May 2005

A number of inappropriate posts have been removed. The recent bickering that's been going on in here is out of line and needs to stop. We are here to talk about the car. What we think about anyone else who is posting here is not an appropriate topic.

If anyone has any further comments to make about what has been going on in here among some of us, email me - do NOT post them here.

FWIW, the person claiming to be a Toyota marketing rep was clearly pulling your leg. Let that go.

Now please ... let's stick to the 2005 Avalon. I appreciate your cooperation.

jordan7 · May 2005

I don't think the color mud flaps will be available. They are only available as a port installed option in the SE region (I think they are painted at port). I am using Krylon's Fusion paint to paint the front side of the black mud flaps and am told by Krylon that it should hold up very well. allow 7 days for paint to cure before installing. hope this is an otion for you.

dajab · May 2005

Several others have. See posts 2803, 4, 6, 8, 37, & 47; also 4497, 98 (or search the forum for "odometer"). The last word on it was that it looked dim only when one was wearing polarizing sunglasses. I haven't experienced this, as mine are prescription photo-grey ones.

paul_p · May 2005

fin, you said: "Comments from owners are always more valuable than from others, for obvious reasons. Good or bad, if you own one, don't keep your experience a secret. Post it."

I agree! I've learned so much from people on the Edmunds forums over the last 5 years. Very helpful information. Thanks Pat as well, for all you do!

The 2005 Avalon is a beauty, imho. Even the XL model is substantial enough for my wife and I that we're replacing our 2000 Mercedes C230 Kompressor with it. Many more options and much more power (extra 100 hp). The biggest difference for me: fully automatic climate control!

Looking forward to sharing our experiences with you about our new pride and joy after we take delivery, and reading yours as well.

- Paul

rodc2 · May 2005

Re: "I cannot read the odometer on my LTD during daylight hours....

Is it possible that you are wearing "polorized" glasses/sun glasses. I have found that some panel displays are nearly impossible to read when wearing glasses with "polorized" lenses. Just a thought.
Rod

mikes. · May 2005

"I cannot read the odometer on my LTD during daylight hours because of dim lighting even with the dimmer control fully clockwise. Anybody else having this problem??"

I have problems reading the odometer and the cruise speed setting when sunlight falls directly on them. Toyota needs to re-think these lights.

MikeS.

3puttmax · May 2005

Add my name to the list of those who can't read the odometer or cruise control settings with sunglasses on. My sunglasses are not polarized, but I still have the problem. Can see displays OK without sunglasses.

loudspeaker76 · May 2005

Avalonkitten,

That IS a definite transmission problem! Your gearbox has a broken something-or-other! You are describing a problem I had with my Audi and it took a letter from me with very specific descriptions of how the problem can be recreated to get the transmission replaced. However, the transmission, transaxles, braking system, and a few other parts were all replaced on the vehicle without further issue. If your dealership is being a putz about the fix, contact Toyota or another local dealer and have them take a look at it. That is not something to screw around with.

-LoUdSpEaKeR

havalongavalon · May 2005

Given the repeated requests, I took photos to show where I installed the AW-20E0 silver bumper sensors and buzzer from Awell Logistics Marketing that johni and I mentioned in earlier posts (#4143, 4809, 5192).

Contrary to instructions, to decide where to drill the 4 holes in the bumper I did not rely on the vertical distance from ground; rather, I measured a matched distance (about 2 1/4") down from the horizontal edge of the bumper. This is more accurate in case the ground is uneven or the car sits a little crooked. I also matched the distances from the license plate and tail lights to the sensors, to ensure right-left symmetry. The photo shows the typical view of my Avalon back-up sensors that other drivers get as a ZOOM-ZOOOOM past them:

As shown in the next photo, I adhered the buzzer as close as possible to a rectangular recessed hole in the metal underside of the rear deck inside the trunk, driver's side. This location allows for the sound to be heard clearly inside the cabin. The wires from the buzzer to the control unit can be seen leaving to the left. The control unit is hidden behind the padding, adhered to the left wall of the trunk near the wiring that powers the left reversing light.

The most challenging step for me was to pass the sensor lead wires into the trunk, since the trunk is so well sealed. There is a notch in the metal lip under the rubber gasket near the latch. The notch was not big enough to pass all four wire pairs, so I extended it a bit with a file to allow the wires to enter the trunk under the rubber gasket without being compressed. I couldn't take a photo to show this; I did such a good job that the wires are invisible...

Best wishes,

havalongavalon

loudspeaker76 · May 2005

Impartial,

You hit the preverbial nail on the head. This board has been excellent for positive feedback on aspects of the 2005 Avalon. If you say you have a problem and state it specifically this community responds with a plethora (I love using that word) of answers or suggestions on how to address the issue.

Yes there is good and bad about any car. If the Avalon was perfect we wouldn't be talking about aftermarket add-ons and such. We are here to further our understanding of the vehicle and answer the question, "Am I the only one?" be it like or dislike.

Ok I'm getting off my soap box now.

-LoUdSpEaKeR
"Put two people in a room to discuss something and you get three points of view."

havalongavalon · May 2005

Had another look at the second photo I posted in #5550 -- did anyone confirm by now the function of the two slightly curved plastic-clad arms that extend into the trunk from behind the seat backs and end in up-going hooks? My guess was that the arm contains a mechanism related to the reclining seat backs; but what is the hook for? (besides hanging jumper cables, that is).

havalongavalon

loudspeaker76 · May 2005

havalongavalon,

AWESOME post! Thank you very much for the picture showing where you mounted everything.

The sensors don't detract from your Avalon what-so-ever. I'm definitely going to strongly consider installing that in my Avalon... When I finally get it. :sniff:

-LoUdSpEaKeR

havalongavalon · May 2005

Thanks, LoUdSpEaKeR, glad to hear. And I bet you also appreciated the key role that the Center Speaker plays in that photo! (I could have cropped it out, but I left it in specifically with YOU in mind...!)

Best wishes on trading up to the Avalon asap. I hope your Ouchie will hold up OK until then...

havalong

prakrama · May 2005

I bought an Avalon XLS - Silver Pine Mica + Carpets/Mats + Spoiler + Mud gaurds
+ 7% Tax + Destniation Charge = 32123/- ( O.D price )

Can someone please tell me whether this was a good bargain ???

3puttmax · May 2005

Great pics! Nice looking installation. Nice looking car. I'm still wondering what the mystery hooks (left & right) are for.

Max

eljefe1 · May 2005

Are those mud flaps Isee on the rear tires.. Do you have a better picture?

I appreciate all the info you have given us... I pick up my limited tomorrow.

El Jefe

havalongavalon · May 2005

Thanks Max -- and many thanks to you for your groundwork and instructions on how to post photos using Photobucket.com, which is what I did for the first time today.

havalong

havalongavalon · May 2005

Hola Jefe,

Yes, my car came with installed black mudflaps (and also floor carpets) as part of the XLS "package B" available in Canada. I thought about painting the mudflaps to match the titanium color, but the black color matches the tires and I think it is less noticeable from the back than if they were painted a light color. In my view, to paint the side that faces the tire doesn't make much sense either, since the color will quickly change when you start driving, so black works fine for me.

Buena suerte Jefe,

havalongavalon

sctortplace · May 2005

We're going to have an aftermarket XM system installed in our new XLS, which is equipped with the standard XLS sound system. From all I've read, the best sound quality will only come from hardwiring (RCA) the XM receiver into an "auxiliary input" on the factory radio receiver, if there is one. The question is, does this factory system have an "auxiliary input"? I understand that many/most factory radios do not have these. I guess this is the same thing as asking, "is this radio satellite-ready"?

ski1003 · May 2005

Paul,

I purchased a 2005 XL Avalon and love the car. I didn't want leather so that was the prime reason I got the XL. Have had the car going on four months and no problems at all to date. Wish you the best with you car.

3puttmax · May 2005

I doubt that the factory system has an auxiliary input. However, you should be able to get an accessory that will adapt the aftermarket XM radio to the standard radio. I was going to do that on a 2000 Avalon, but decided not to. (Bought a 2005 Avalon Limited instead - installed XM on that.)

Ask at the best car stereo shop you know of. With the adapter, which plugs into the standard radio, you can access XM via the AM button. And yes, the cassette adaptor or FM adaptor methods are not good enough - hold out for an adaptor that basicly gives you an extra line level input. Good luck - keep us posted.

Max

avalonfan522 · May 2005

does anyone have the new 2005 avalon? I am thinking about buying one but im trying to figure out if people enjoy it. I was thinking about buying the Limited w/nav.

thanks
nick

pat · May 2005

Hi - welcome to our Forums.

There are a lot of people here who indeed have the new Avalon and most of them are loving it. You can learn a lot about the car and how people feel about it if you spend a little time reading through the previous posts.

There are links on the page bar (top and bottom of page) that will help you jump to specific page numbers so that you can pick a point from which to read forward. If there is a particular topic that interests you, you can use the "Search This Discussion" feature to look up posts by keyword.

Let's not ask the good folks hanging out here to repost everything they've already posted about this car.

Have fun!! This is a lively group here and I'm sure they'll be glad to help you find any information that interests you.

2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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