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Comments
Length: Ford is 3.5" longer (200.7 vs 197.2)
Width: Ford is 0.8" wider (73.7 vs 72.9)
Height: Ford is 2" higher (60.1 vs 58.1)
Wheelbase: Ford is 1.9" longer (112.9 vs 111)
Front Head Room: Ford is 0.7" more (39.4 vs 38.7)
Front Shoulder Room: Avalon is 2.4" wider (59.4 vs 57.8)
Front Leg Room: Avalon is 0.4" more (41.7* vs 41.3)
Rear Head Room: Ford is 0.7" more (38.6 vs 37.9)
Rear Leg Room: exactly the same (40.9)
Interior Volume: Ford is 0.2 cubic feet larger (107.1 vs 106.9)
*Front Leg Room was not specified for the new Avalon, so I assumed it to be the same as the 2004 model.
And as most of you know (Alpha sure knows - he is very active in the 500 board as well:-) Ford will have a new engine in the 500 in the 2007 refreshing cycle, and will hopefully update the interior with better materials (Nissan did it with the Altima for 2005) and perhaps optitron gauges, and copy the signal mirrors from their minivans, add navigation system, and it will be even more competitive.
I think the avalon will just be more luxurious - the worst thing about the 500 imo is the "look" of the interior - it has such a hard plastic look, you feel like you could hose out the inside. the second worst thing about the 500 is its a ford.
The avalon will also have substantially more power. However, I think most buyers of both cars are not concerned too much with the sportiness of the cars. Clearly, toyo's redesign (IMO) caters to the typical avalon buyer - someone who cares about comfort over performance (i.e., old) - if you are looking for performance, you'd be better off with about a dozen other cars (acura tl, infiniti).
coug2 - if you don't like the Five Hundred interior, you may be surprised at the Mercury Montego version of the car - for the same price as a comparably equipped Ford Five Hundred, it has a very nice two tone interior (the leather version is also perforated, not solid), LED tail lights, HID headlights, and dark fake wood which looks far nicer than the shelf paper-like material in the Ford.
It seems that lack of AWD may be a mistake, but having owned a turbo-charged FWD car with lots of power and unequal length front drive shafts producing plenty of torque steer, I really think that a limited slip differential / traction control and stability control, along with the super sticky snow tires now available, will make AWD less of an advantage than Ford and Chrysler hope. Chrysler is saying that AWD on the 300 (and Magnum) gives them an advatage, but they also have videos out showing how well their cars do in snow and ice without it.
For $27,790 MSRP, the 500/Montego comes close in size and the target audience, and offers heated seats, dual-stage front airbags and side curtain airbags, HID headlights, leather seats, dual-zone automatic climate control, traction control, memory function for seats, mirrors and pedals, premium sound system, and in-dash CD changer. There is some talk in the 500 forum indicating that Ford may give a $2000 incentive, which will bring the MSRP down to $25,790 or so.
From the Avalon specs, it looks like the similarly equipped Avalon trim will be XLS. Granted, the Avalon interior is much more impressive, the engine has more power, and Toyota has a superior reliability record. There are also optional features on Avalon that are just too futuristic for Ford. But for the sake of apples to apples comparisson, let's stay with the Avalon that is equipped similarly to 500/Montego. The question is then, how much more is the public willing to pay for the Avalon advatnages? Or, perhaps even more relevant, does Toyota want to sell its new flagship car in some significant volume, by perhaps matching the price to the competition and providing a greater car? I hope the answer is "yes", because in that case I would not to have to pay the Lexus price for the Toyota brand.
If Toyota hired me as a "price setter" (is there such a position in Tokyo?), I would recommend this:
XL: $27,000
XLS: $30,000
Touring: Not sure
Limited, fully loaded, including NAV system: $36,000
I know, I know, it might all be just wishful thinking, especially considering that the XLS price would be a decrease from the current XLS model. But if you believe that Toyota wants to accompany a great flagship with great sales and visibility, I may not be that far from the mark.
Toyota seems to be introducing more, higher priced model extensions to counterbalance that... such as the XLE Limited AWD Sienna that, when fully loaded, can easily top $39,000. The last generation never got higher than $34,000, but thats without AWD and a whole slew of higher tech options that are now available. In any case, despite the price of the XLE AWD Limited, I've seen a good number on the road, and even now, Toyota is still commanding above invoice on the Sienna, with no substantial rebates offered.
Bottom Line: Excellent products (which I think we all expect the new Avalon to be) will sell strongly, with the right marketing exposure. Good products (Five Hundred/Montego) will have a harder time, even with similar exposure. Trendy, different products will sell strong initially, but taper off (my feelings on the Chrysler 300... just like what happened with the PT Cruiser).
~alpha
Did you folks know that the Avalons rear seat will be rake adjustable? 5 positions, over 10 degrees. And dual zone automatic climate control will be standard on all models, along with steering wheel HVAC/Radio, tilt and telescopic steering wheel, and a cassette player.
~alpha
I will be most interested in pricing points, and how dealers will be on negotiating before the market is established. Were they sticking to MSRP right out of the gate with the Sienna? I didn't get my Sienna until 1/04, so I don't know.
My wife loves the HID headlights on her Sienna XLE limited. That was the only 2004 Sienna that had them. She feels truly safe now driving at night. Amongst 2005 Avalons, only the Touring and Limited lines will have them.
But only on the Limited.
Odd.
- Ray
Thinking it would also be useful on the "Touring" model that would be my preference . . .
Is that the actual lineup order, future1?
E. Grade Structure
1. XL – easy step-up from other Toyota model, or entry to Toyota brand
2. Touring – new sporty model w/ more style
3. XLS – core model
4. Limited – new flagship ultra luxury model
I really want to see just how unique the touring and Limited models will be.
Seems like the XLS has been moved down a bit. Hopefully if I get to intern with Toyota, I'll get to drive them ALL the time!!!
I can't wait!!!
Maxamillion1, I concur with your emotions about the new Avalon. I don't think I have ever been more excited about a new car introduction in my life as I am of this new Avalon!
The maddest I ever made a manager at me was when I bought the last car
My new car Ford manager almost stroked out when I bought a 4 year old XLS for $4000 MORE with 50000 miles on it over 1 of our 10000 mile current year program Taurus
Bought it from our Lexus dealership next door
Kept saying "I just don't understand Why !
I could have invited him to take a ride with me....And made him even madder Because He would only buy Ameracan and defended the Ford Product to the Death,But I hate to look for a new job "spent 22 years at one dealership".
Finally the point being: I have driven the new Ford 500 and I would'n trade my 2000 Avalon for it.
I seriously doubt that in the real world of driving both products side by side that the 500 will change my comparative impressions.
Don't just look at the specs before the 2006 a rives.... I expect that DRIVING the products will make one of them seem like 1 of them will make it seem like the other is 1 generation behind
Thank U FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION
For these factors, the reviews rely more on metaphors and superlatives (such as "claustrophobic", "suicidal", "jiggly", "underwhelming", and "vague"), rather than quantitative terms. I wish all the reviewers agreed on how to map the "feel" parameters into hard numbers -- picking a car would be a simple math excersize: just weigh all the factors, sum them up, divide the car's price by the sum, and place the order for the car with the lowest ratio.
Here is want you get sight unseen and yes I am holding my breath also and may even buy 1 wihout seeing it in order to beat the deluge of orders expected
If it is called a 2006 insteasd of a 2005, this time a next year I will own a car that is on the market CURRENT YEAR CAR YES EVERYBODY KNOWS IT CAME OUT IN 2004-05 but 30 years of selling cars tells me that it won't make any depreciation difference. This actually wholes true through the interduction of the 2007's in September of 2006.
So you get AT LEASE 1 3/4 years of having the pleasure of driving a "NEW" car and it being recognized as a new car "How do yoy like your New Avalon.....We all like that whether we admitt it or not.
Looking at the"500" or any of the others that are in it's Class this is not true
If the car is as nice as we "Hear and Hope it is"
It will out shine anything you could compare it with except another "LEXUS"
Oh yeah, If what happens with the resale at this point in time continues and there is no apparent reason FOR it not too: My/Your car will be worth 2 to 3
times more than anything in its class and I/You and it will possibly be car of the year in its class.
So all those that want to... Please go Buy your "Other" choice...... Oh by the way, when any of those people pull up beside me there will be no raceing.......just envey... becase they will know that I/ Will
" Blow their doors off" if they really get Brave AND WHETHER OR NOT ANYBODY IN THIS ROOM ADMITS IT OR NOT THAT IS A REAL FACTOR IN BUYING ANY CAR TO ANYBODY THAT WOULD SPEND TIME IN THIS ROOM
Thank you for your time and Interest
[email protected]
Hope it is tommorow.... And I hope it is Good
Burl
So what about a turbo-charged Avalon?
And fortunately where I buy my Toyotas the sales manager hands me the keys and says to take my time. If I like it enough, he may not see me for a few days!
B
From page 5 letter "C" of the Toyota Avalon introduction;
C. New Flagship for 2005
1. all-new 280 Hp 3.5L V6
I can't wait...!?!?!?!?
Sienna..front wheel, unibody. Shares the same suspension (design), trans and engine with the others mentioned....Oh, and it is built in Georgetown as well....
The only thing the Sienna shares with the Tundra is the sales floor.
Previously, the Solara was built in Canada. Since the Sienna's move, the Solara is built in Georgetown.
The RX330 is now produced in Canada where the Solara production used to reside.
In any case, the Sienna IS NOT on a truck platform, and the Avalon is on a modified Camry platform (NOT with the upcoming Lexus GS, which has also been posited).
~alpha
Toyota's Avalon may go to a rear-drive platform for 2011. With design of the all-new 2006 Avalon that launches early this year wrapped up, Toyota is looking at a major change in the design of the next version, and a platform that could be shared with big Lexus sedans is one possibility. Another consideration reportedly has the Avalon becoming a sportwagon based on the Lexus HHV concept from last year's NY auto show..."
The 1997 Camry/ES used a modifed version of the 1992 Camry/ES platform, and the 2002 versions of the Camry/ES use a further modification of that platform.
~alpha
The 05 Avalon is based off the 2002 Camry platform then, right?
~alpha
Also, Clublexus has real pics of the next Toyota Avalon.
Go to Clublexus.com and then go to forums, then to "car chat" and there is a message board on pics of the Avalon. There are clear pics of the side view and a 3/4 rear view. No front view.
Personally, it looks pretty good. Doesn't look top heavy like the current Avalon.
I must say that I am not impressed with that back window -- it looks pretty awkward. Same actually goes for the side windows. I liked the drawings better than the real thing.
In other news, this month's "Consumer Reports" compared and rated 2004 Avalon with Buick Park Avenue, Nissan Maxima, Ford Five Hundred, Chrysler 300, Kia Amanti, Lincoln Town Car, Pontiac Bonneville, Buick LeSabre, and Mercury Grand Marquis. The Avalon came out on top.