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Cadillac CTS Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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  • Hi all. I have what appears to be a very nice deal on a 2009 CTS pretty close to fully loaded for just under, not including taxes and such. My question is the lease deals are not very good now and I have not financed in a VERY long time. I hate to buy the car for cash as I probably won't keep it more than 3 years and thus that sounds like throwing money away.

    I am trying to figure out how to calculate when I will no longer be upside down on a purchase? If I finance $25K or so for 48 months, will I be right side up after 2 years, if I figure a interest rate of roughly 5.5%?

    This is a tough choice as I really like the CTS but the other "luxury" brands are much more flexible with lease deals. So I don't want to screw myself here, but am not very good at figuring these things out. :confuse:

    Thanks for any thoughts!!
  • I see I forgot to put the price offered in my post and since I can't figure out how to edit a previous post, I am reposting with the price. So here is the edited message:

    Hi all. I have what appears to be a very nice deal on a 2009 CTS pretty close to fully loaded for about $37,429, not including taxes and such. My question is the lease deals are not very good now and I have not financed in a VERY long time. I hate to buy the car for cash as I probably won't keep it more than 3 years and thus that sounds like throwing money away.

    I am trying to figure out how to calculate when I will no longer be upside down on a purchase? If I finance $25K or so for 48 months, will I be right side up after 2 years, if I figure a interest rate of roughly 5.5%?

    This is a tough choice as I really like the CTS but the other "luxury" brands are much more flexible with lease deals. So I don't want to screw myself here, but am not very good at figuring these things out.

    Thanks for any thoughts!!
  • topgun7topgun7 Posts: 409
    "My question is the lease deals are not very good now and I have not financed in a VERY long time. I hate to buy the car for cash as I probably won't keep it more than 3 years and thus that sounds like throwing money away. "

    You can use the dealership bank lease, arrange for your own bank lease or using a site like leasecompare.com which shop lease for you. Buying and leasing are very similar in cost. We pay for the depreciation and the interest cost of using the car. The main difference is that at the end of the lease, the residual is set. In economic situation like ours now, manufacturer are lossing money big time because they set the residual too high a few years back. Basically manufacturer are assuming the risk that they residual may not work out the way they predict it.
  • I just said "DO IT" and pulled the trigger today. I got a completely loaded Direct injection, with every option offered for the red tag price with an additional $2,000 rebate off. So it was $51,189 and I saved 6,000 off that.
    They would not drop any lower than that at all. I thought with the times and since I was the only one in there they would. Not so much. I happy with the deal. Good rate over 60 months and the car is AMAZING and Gorgeous. This is my first Domestic car purchase in my life. I will tell all of my import friends to look into this car from this point on. It is really that nice. The drive and steering are amazing and the tech is just as grand. Good luck everyone
  • The two dealerships I have been dealing with have previously told me that any lease deal would be in the between $700 (48 months) to $775 (36 months) with 12K mile lease. Therefore, I did some shopping for possible financing alternatives and qualified for a 5.13% loan for 60 months. Payments would be roughly $650 a month with about $8,000 down.

    Today, one dealership calls and tells me that the lease payment has now dropped to $659 at 36 months, 12K miles with $1,887 due at signing. Dealership says no change in the MF (.00266) and Residual (49%) so I am not sure what changed.

    Anyway, I am trying to determine which is the best route to go and was hoping someone could give me some insight. I didn't really see a leasing vs. buying forum so if this needs to be moved, please do so.

    Thanks in advance.
  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    First of all what are you getting for this money. A basic car, a fully loaded car, or something in between. Are all of the deals offering the same car and equipment.

    Could you buy this car for cash. If so how much would it cost, how much interest would you lose, or how much would you have to pay for financing. How often would you like to trade for a new car (the current CTS will probably not change appreciably for the next four or five years.)

    All of this needs to be taken into consideration before you can decide on the best deal.
  • Thanks, bingoman. Pretty much a fully loaded CTS - Premium collection, but Rear wheel drive. I would prefer a lease. I was just curious at the sudden drop in leasing payment with all factors otherwise the same.
  • I have received this (final) offer for a 2009 CTS with Premium Collection and spare tire - bottom line is $39,447. This is a quote on a specific car - I have the VIN #. I do not know how long the car is going to be there for, so any thoughts would be appreciated. Below is what the internet manager told me when giving me the bottom line price. The source for my reference invoice price was Costco Auto.

    I'm not sure what you're looking at as far as the invoice is concerned, however the invoice on this vehicle is $47,282 and we are selling it for $45,447, so we are actually below invoice.

    There are only been $6000 in rebates. I previously showed you $7000 because I had coupons from GM that I could use, however those have all been used on customers who have already purchased a vehicle.

    The difference between MSRP and supplier pricing is not the same on all cars.

    Like I mentioned previously, the amount due at signing hasn't changed. It's still right around $1900 (I think the exact amount before was $1887). The amount due at signing line includes the available rebates.

    When you calculate the lease payment on your own, it is never going to exactly equal what we calculate because of the license fees, dealer fee, acquisition fee, etc. There is always going to be a slight difference, no matter how you are doing your calculations.

    The bottom line on the car without the wheels is $39,447 and this is the best I can do.

    Thanks for any thoughts.
  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    The salesman is playing the usual salesman games. He is not losing money on the deal as the invoice price is not the actual price the dealer pays. There are holdback moneys that are paid to the dealer by the factory after the sale which need to be subtracted from the invoice price to determine the true cost.

    Aside from this you need to know the residual value of the car at the end of the lease. This is what the dealer thinks the car will be worth as a used car at the end of the lease. You will have to decide for yourself if this is a realistic number (you might use some source such as Kelly Bluebook for a car of the same make with the same mileage and years, but this is a guessing game as the economy and car preferences change over the years.) You also need the tax, license and other fees included in the price. Then you need a good financial calculator to determine the monthly payment or the interest rate, depending on which the salesman is quoting you.

    Doing the calculations yourself is the only way to keep the salesman honest. Good luck.
  • Thanks, bingoman. This keeps getting more interesting. Here is the latest part of the saga. I initially found the dealership I am dealing with thru Costco's auto program. That is where i got the MSRP and invoice prices from. In telling the rep from the dealer what I thought the invoice was based on the Costco site, she replied as follows: What is this $1,000 advertising fee? Is this BS or what? sounds like it to me. I do have a copy of the invoice and it does say that.

    The MSRP matches, however their “invoice” price is $1000 off because they don’t take into consideration the $1000 that GM charges us on every vehicle for their mass advertising. I encourage you to go on Costco’s site again and build this car again because I cannot save it and send it you like you were able to for some reason. On the 2nd page of the invoice I sent you yesterday, you’ll see in the bottom right hand corner where it says “remit to GMAC” – the VIN is listed there, along with the amount that we have to send to GMAC for the car (the invoice price)

    I think I have the other items you mentioned figured out, and I know the dealer is making money, but if the final price is fair, then it might not be a bad deal. Although now I may consider finance over leasing.

    Thanks again for all you great explanations, suggestions and pointers.
  • Has anyone heard about or experienced this issue with the 2008-2009 CTS?

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-forum-2008-beyond/119196-have-- we-solved-steering-vibration-freeway-37.html

    48 page thread discussing a mysterious shimmy problem. Apparently Cadillac knows about the issue and has issued a tech bulletin but has not solved the problem yet. See Post # 369 on page 37 of the thread for the bulletin.

    Has anyone who has recently purchased a CTS run into this problem?
  • topgun7topgun7 Posts: 409
    "What is this $1,000 advertising fee? Is this BS or what? sounds like it to me. I do have a copy of the invoice and it does say that. "

    yes, they are legitmate money that dealer need to pay. Each region has their advertisment budget and they pass it to all the dealership and pay for it per car. I saw this fee showed up in cars from different manufacturers. Instead of focusing on whether dealer has any more room to give (they do), it is more important to see if they are willing to give any more (after all they need to make a living as well and pay for all the building and salary). The best way is to find other dealers in your area and see if they can do any better. If no one can do better then you get the best price. And you will have to decide if the price is good enough for you.. I do think that the rebate will be gone in a month or two. GM is over prodcuing their cars now because of the economic downturn. Once they get around to reduce production, they won't offer such a hefty rebate. GM is lossing money in selling every CTS given all the discount. They can last very long in doing so..
  • Just brought home a fully loaded 2009 CTS direct injection, crystal red w/cashmere with a sticker price of $51,850. Sticker on identically equipped vehicles shipped after 9/30/08 is $53,025. I was lucky to find one that has been around since before the price increase. Dealer's final selling price was $47,500. This is the best deal I could find after shopping out of state dealers who sell at deep discounts, as well as another dealer here in CT. After the $1500 model rebate, $2000 GM Loyalty Discount and $4000 lease incentive, the final price I paid was $40,000. I still cannot believe I got this car at that price. Perfect time to buy for anyone ready to pull the trigger.
  • Getting CTS 09 AWD DI with luxury package,sunroof and audio package. MSRP 44600 they are giving me 2800 off as a supplier price and 2500 in rebate so total 5300 off.Is this a good deal or should I wait for Feb 3rd for possible better deal. Right now I dont quailfy for their lease or GM loyal rebates.
  • I believe the $2800 discount puts you at right around the invoice price. The model rebate is $1500, not $2500. (If the dealer says it is $2500, take the deal and don't argue!) I would try to buy this car for $41,000, less the $1500 rebate, for a final price of $39500. That would be about $800 below invoice. You should get that deal if you stick to your guns. The incentives may get better after 2/3, but there is no way to know for sure.
  • My lease is up in 2 months on my previous cts and there is some minor repairs that need to be done that will cost around $1000. If I trade in the car for a new cts, will they waive those fees on my return car? Secondly, with the deep discounts I qualify for, do you think I could turn around and sell the new car, and break even or maybe even a small profit, to a 3rd party that does not qualify for the lease/loyalty rebates? Or is that stretching it? Thanks!
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 772
    No way you'll turn a profit by quick-flipping a CTS. They lose so much value when you drive off the lot that you'd have to pay somebody to take it off your hands (despite those ads that tout the CTS as a resale value award winner). Except for high-demand, low-volume cars (rare exotics), every car loses big when you take it home.
  • Thanks for the advice!
  • I had heard that Cadillac was bringing out a new CTS coupe, for 2010. Based upon this, I leased my 2008 STS, with lease expiring in August 2009, the date the new car was to have debuted. Cadillac has dropped the coupe's debut, instead, bringing out a station wagon. I have NO interest in a wagon, as we now have a 2009 Murano to fill that niche. I contacted Cadillac, and they confirmed the fact that the coupe has been pushed back, and is listed as a concept car. If price is right, I'll buy the 2008 STS I am driving now, as it is a wonderful car, and in excellent condition.
  • With the recession in full gear and GM possibly going bankrupt, are you finding better deals now? What is a reasonable price to pay for a DI AWD?
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    GM isnt giving the cars away...you can get them for less than MSRP..but still expect to pay at or slightly above invoice...unless you have GM card points and other incentives....a fully optioned DI AWD will probably still run in the low to mid $40Ks out the door.....from what Im seeing in my area....but shop around

    bought my 09 CTS non DI RWD fully loaded MSRP 49,500 for just over $42K last Sept during the employees pricing sale....put another 5K down and financed the rest.....
  • shoeles2shoeles2 Posts: 3
    I just bought a cts base model with msrp of 39,500 at the end of Feb. Believe it or not, I got it for 26500. I had a 4000 rebate on a lease return, and I think I got lucky buying on the last day of the month. The neg. price before the rebates was 34,500, a full 3000 below invoice. It's really sad to see them selling cars at this price.
  • twain809twain809 Posts: 7
    I'd like to agree on a price for a 2009 CTS based on an amount based on invoice.

    1) If I go to kbb.com and price the car with options, is the Invoice amount they show a legitimate Invoice amount (and equal to what the dealer would be invoiced by GM)?

    2) What is a reasonable amount for X in: Invoice + $X? X=$500? X=$700? I think Invoice +$X plus all applicable incentives (for example, March's incentives equal $2,500, so my price would be Invoice + $X - $2,500.

    I have no trade-in, not coming off a lease; this is a straight purchase.

    I live in the Northeast. Don't know if that has any impact on X.
  • twain809twain809 Posts: 7
    If the dealer I'm working with has located a car at another dealer, does my dealer need to give the other dealer a cut of the profit? If so, I presume this would make it harder for me to get the best price because the two dealers need to share the profit, yes?
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    no, more than likedly they will trade inventory.....my dealer found my CTS at another dealer...about 50 miles away.....they simply traded similiar vehicles out in my case...IMHO should make no impact on the sales price or your deal.....or ability to get a good deal.....if the dealer tells you otherwise.....walk away
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    edmunds invoice cost usually doesnt reflect the advertising fee GM passes to the dealerships....usually around 2-3% of the cost of the vehicle if I recall correctly...havnet looked but does edmunds include shipping fee as well? ...but otherwise it should be spot on....

    I usually go in a few hundred over invoice.....some dealers are flexible with the advertising fee...some are not......but you logic is sound on your approach....
  • twain809twain809 Posts: 7
    The dealer has agreed to Invoice less any incentives that are in effect at time of delivery. They are changing a car that they have entered into the GM production system to match the specs that I want.

    The dealer is asking for a $2,000 deposit.

    What do I need to do to ensure all is good? I presume I'll get a receipt of the deposit. I'm obviously taking a chance that they're still be some decent incentives come April when the car is delivered, but is there anything I need to do to ensure they make good on their promise to sell at Invoice?
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    get a signed sales agreement with your total price, less your deposit and the order number on it. with a signed sales agreement you are protected against any manufacturer price increase.....whether or not you will be eligible for incentives at time of delivery I dont know about.....most incentives are tied to existing dealer stock and not specific customer orders......again...get it in writing from the SALES MANAGER.....not just your sales man....

    make sure they can change the specs on the car too...if the order from the dealer has already been accepted...believe its code 3000, its too late to change specs, if the order is just sitting in the dealers order que awaiting an allocation, then it can still be changed.....order allocations to dealers are released weekly, however the dealer should now how many he can order in any one given month...

    dont leave with just a receipt for your deposit...
  • cdfinneycdfinney Posts: 4
    Well my wife and I went looking at the new CTS and was quoted prices about $4000 off MSRP. That was fine, but then I learn that If I was coming off a lease they would give me another $4000 off totaling $8000. I just can not sign the papers for a new car knowing someone else can just walk in and get a $4000 lower price. This is only for for someone who is coming off a lease and it doesn't matter what brand of car you leased. My problem with that is that I own Sierra Denali and a Grand Am. So I called GM and let them know I will not buy any more cars from them. Beautiful car, but thats 10% of the cost.
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    national incentives Im sure...but the dealer is the one who ultimately sells the car for the $$....did you pass the same information to the dealer..........got mine during their employee pricing offer back in Sept....and got $7500 off an MSRP of over $49K....
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