Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL

carguy58 · February 2004

"The Acura signature grille can be easily mistaken for the Toyota Camry Solara"

I don't think it looks like a Solara. Whats that supposed to be a diss against the TL?

The car is selling so Honda must be doing something right. The 96-98 TL didn't sell well at the same price range the new TL is selling at now.

Lastly, As far as comparisons with the IS300 the TL doesn't compete with the IS300 so I don't know where that comparison is coming from. They should have compared to the ES300 not the IS300. The IS300 is smaller than the TL.

chrisboth · February 2004

I think you're right - we should comapare more simlar cars like the FWD solara, TL and ES300 and compare the RWD cars - the IS, G, 330.

They really are separate classes

kahunah · February 2004

Not as far as the automotive journalism community is concerned.

kevin111 · February 2004

Though the TL and G35 are in a different size/power class than the v40, the V40 would be lumped in this group in a comparison.

The V40 manual with AWD is supposed to do 0-60 around 6.3 secs. This is just shy of what the TL and G35 does and about on par with the 330i. Also, the price-point is very close to both as well. Finally, the size is very similiar to the 3-series, which is considered the Bench Mark in this class. (sorry Chrisboth, but the 3-series is what Infiniti was gunning for when they made the G35).)

So yes, this car would apply in a comparison.

With that said, this is supposed to be strictly a TL vs. G35 comparison board.

carguy58 · February 2004

The Vovo S40 cannot be compared with the TL. Don't get me wrong I like the interior in the current S40 but my con against that car is the backseat room is minimal from what I have seen.

If you want to compare the TL with a Volvo compare it with the S60 not the S40.

buddhabman · February 2004

frenchy2002 - The reign of the 2004 Acura TL will be short lived too. Hail the new king, the Volvo S40 T5 AWD 6 speed manual!

Sorry frenchy, the V40 is a nice near luxury compact, but it really matches against the TSX, Mazda 6, Saaburu WRX. Despite the 6 spd, some turbo power, and a fairly nice interior, it can't stack up to the TL, G35, or 330i. That is what the S60/R models are for. Threats to the "King" - Acura TL are from the past Kings BMW 330 and the G35

But again this reign might be short lived as the Subaru Legacy GT gets debuted on Friday. Anyone whos has driven a Legacy GT knows they will gladly take on a TL or G35 or 330 in the twisties anytime anywhere. Now that the car has power it's gonna be a new game. The question is the interior? We will see soon enough

chrisboth · February 2004

"Anyone whos has driven a Legacy GT knows they will gladly take on a TL or G35 or 330 in the twisties anytime anywhere."

Really? The old one? Really? Did yours come with 305/15/18's or was it structurally enhanced by MIT?

So since acura is a player we now have to compare the G to a volvo 40 and a es300? Get real...those are commuter cars

buddhabman · February 2004

chrisboth - The Legacy has always been a well balanced car with a great chassis that deserved more power. Since 98 the same chassis in Japan has supported 240HP. The mags have frequently said great steering feel, good balance, very composed over rough surfaces, very tossable. The rub has always been power. Now I am not saying it is luxury or anything resembeling nice, but they have always been a great drivers car.

kevin111 · February 2004

The upcomming V40 is much bigger, and would be considered in the entry-level luxo sedan comparisons with the TL and the X-type.

chrisboth · February 2004

"The mags have frequently said great steering feel, good balance, very composed over rough surfaces, very tossable."

I think its a great car - like a passat or 325 even - but you compared it to a 330i or a G35, the benchmark for entry lux sedan handling - perhaps I should re-read what you wrote..

PS the Mits Outlander we just got gets 240 hp in japan too -but it's no G35.

danny1878 · February 2004

The only thing TL lack is rwd feeling, other than that:
0-60,0-100,1/4 mile, slalom 600 ft test Stats are good
Sales good
G35 sedan sales in Jan'04 3382 units & in jan'03 2474 units
TL04 sedan sales in jan'04 5036 units & in jan'03 3279 units
both TL and G35 sales are up but TL's up much greater.
Features and amenities is the best in class
Snowy, dry, slalom like road alwasy good but "maybe" not for winding road, just maybe lol

billyperks · February 2004

Who said the G was the Benchmark for handling or one of the benchmark for handling?

The car came out a few years ago and already it is the Benchmark?

I think you are going a little bit overboard with this car.

chrisboth · February 2004

I think the proof is in the pudding - I'm not overboard - i think I'm simply suggesting that the TL dethroning the G as the benchmark is overboard.

You want to tell me which car you think the benchmark is? The one that dethroned the 3 series is prob the place to start looking...

It doesn't take time to beat a benchmark - so I take issue with the 2 years comment. It only takes a better handler than the past benchmark, a faster car in 1/4 mile or 0-100, perfect balance and world class brakes that even the Italian supercars can't quite duplicate. The G has these - the TL has 1 or 2. The beemer has all of them and some of them at slightly lesser levels than the G.

I'd say there could be 2 benchmarks and the TL is still no one of them. Sorry but look at ALL the performnace numbers - 0-60 is not a lot to hang your hat on. Put those fatty tires on a G with stock 215's and watch that Slalom go to 70 - and my front tires wont hate me or scream thier way through it either...

kevin111 · February 2004

Chrisboth, the G35 is a great car, and one I would strongly consider if purchasing a new car now, but it is not the benchmark.

The BMW 3-series/5-series is.

Lexus IS300 - used the 3-Series as a benchmark
G35 - Used the 3-Series (and possibly the 5-series) as a benchmark

Acura TL - Used the 5-Series as a benchmark.

Would I rather have a 3-series over a G35, do not know, but right now the 3-series is the standard bearer.

raher · February 2004

The Verdict
The moral of this story is that, if you leave a large enough target exposed for a prolonged period of time, somebody with big aspirations and a fistful of darts is bound to hit the bull's-eye. Score 50 points for Team Infiniti in this round. The G35 is finally the car that outperforms, underprices, and outshines the longtime bogey BMW 3 Series. Eventually, we'll be treated to a manual transmission--first in the G35 coupe, and later in the sedan. When that happens, who'll care a darn about the taillights except for the BMW you just smoked?

kdshapiro · February 2004

Motor trend quote: two years old and they did not quite hit it on dead center. If according to Motor Trend, the G beat the 3. According to CR the Acura beats the G. Let's see: if a=b and b=c, ergo a=c. Got it. The fact of the matter is, by every comparo, there are no tail-lights to be seen by either vehicle, and the 3 is still on top.

Oh well.

danny1878 · February 2004

Benchmark is still BMW as a whole supported by its M,5,6,7 series.

I dont see any car which trying to look like G35. I know TL look 530 as its benchmark.
Features and amenities are far less than BMW and even lesser than TL.
G35 sells a lot lesser than TL (TL 5036 units vs G35 3382 units in jan 2004).

0-60 stats TL better in most of test.
Slalom test 600 ft, TL win easily,dont need to modify anything to reach that result while G35 need bigger tire or whatever it takes. (Standard vs Standard). There is no test yet about TL with 300+ hp A-spec

BMW still strong in sales because of its 325
As company wise, Nissan is at the same class like Honda and Toyota but it ranks 3rd.

If G35 is the benchmark, Honda, toyota will drop it's sales, its 0-60 result, its slalom test, drop its interior just to be like G35. Even pricing. Is this the benchmark we are talking about?

Winning 1 thing doesnt mean becoming the benchmark.

kahunah · February 2004

"If according to Motor Trend, the G beat the 3. According to CR the Acura beats the G."

The correct equation is TL>G>3 : )

03accordman · February 2004

Picked the G over TL and 325. TL smoked every car with a 5.7sec sprint to 60. I haven't seen any published test where the 330 has managed anything better.

Acura did benchmark the 5 Series, but the out going one, not the new UGLY Bangled 5er. I wonder how long before Bangle works his 'magic' on the 3 series, and spoils one of the best looking Bimmers ever. Single handedly Bangle has destroyed BMWs traditional looks and replaced it with an ugly butt, 6 series included

kahunah · February 2004

And there's good reason for that. As far as benchmarks go, I think the (outgoing) 540i 6-speed is the world's finest 'regular production' sports sedan. Too bad Chris Bungled it up.

ewoq · February 2004

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/04tl6.htm

kahunah · February 2004

This was hardly a complete and thorough review. Where were the cones man! Ya gotta have the cones!! :-o

merc1 · February 2004

Could you explain one thing to me:

"perfect balance and world class brakes that even the Italian supercars can't quite duplicate."

What Italian supercar would that be?

M

jrock65 · February 2004

"Motor trend quote: two years old and they did not quite hit it on dead center."

The G35 and the 3 didn't really change in the past two years. So if a magazine picks the G35 over the 3, it's not legitimate. I see your logic.

"The fact of the matter is, by every comparo, there are no tail-lights to be seen by either vehicle, and the 3 is still on top."

Motortrend picked the G35 over the 330i in its comparo. Roadandtrack picked the G35 over the 330i in its comparo. Caranddriver picked the 330i over the G35 in its comparo. Caranddriver picked the G35 over the 325i in its comparo.

You can argue that the 330i is the benchmark and "on top" until the cows come home, and you are certainly entitled to your OPINION.

merc1 · February 2004

Interesing posts today. When I think "benchmark" I think of the product everyone is aiming for or considers to be the car to beat in a segment. In that sense the 3-Series is the benchmark.

All of the new comers, G35, IS300, TL etc will do it all over again once the next 3-Series appears, styling aside.

By this very same definition of a benchmark, the G35, TL and IS300 don't cut it because nobody else is going to be creating cars to mimic these. The next 3 will set the pace all over again.

Now flip the coin over.

If the G35 has out performed the 3-Series in the opinion of the majority of the automotive press, then YES the 3-Series has been surpassed for the time being, but to be a "benchmark" (to me) you have to be the car every other brand is aspiring to build.

You can bet that Lexus surely isn't developing the next IS after the G35. Right now in the darkest most remote test tracks in Japan they are using the 3-Series just like everyone else has/is/does.

I guess the way I see it the G35 is the best alternative to the 3-Series and may be a better car for a many, but the actual "benchmark" is still the 3-Series, for development of future cars from any and all competitors wishing to attain some sort of standing or status in this class.

Now lets say after the new 3 arrives and the press still touts the G35 as a better car, then BMW truly will have a problem and I'd say the torch has truly been passed, thus creating a new "benchmark".

M

jrock65 · February 2004

I respectfully disagree. The 3 was undoubtedly the benchmark for many years, and it still may be to some people. The IS was the first challenger, and while it is a great car, it came up short. However, the G35 and TL have matched or surpassed the 3 in many areas. This is not to say that the 3 is not a great car, which it is. I just don't think that it is the clear cut leader in this segment any more.

Lexus will probably use all these cars-- the G35, 3, and the TL roughly equally in developing and testing its next IS. The G35 for its combination of power, handling, and value. The 3 for its combination of ride, handling, and composure. The TL for its value, quality, and creature comforts. What Toyota has announced that it will do is offer the next IS in as many variants as the 3, i.e. in sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon, and performance (a la M) form.

Who knows, maybe the next 3 will be so good that it'll blow everyone out of the water, and again become the undisputed benchmark. Or maybe the next IS will.

danny1878 · February 2004

The incomplete summary between G35 sedan vs new TL sedan from prev. discussion

1. Some people say G35 handlings better than TL
   Consumer report complained that G35 suffers from excessive oversteer which makes handling tricky at the limit
    Edmund reports TL slalom test if 67.5 mph while 330i 63.6 mph and G35 59.2 mph

2. Some people say TL has a reliability issue
   TL has only been out for 4 months and if reliability is the issue why Acura resale value is a lot better than infinity

3. Some people say TL looks like grand prix, solara
   The benchmark for TL is the old 530 and you will be the judge

4. Some people say Acura TL = Honda Accord
   Engine sizes are different, different timing OHC, different fuel injection, different compression, different boreXstroke, styling, interior, features etc.

5. Some people say Acura TL body sheet are made from cheap steel unlike Lexus/Infinity
   The fact is Acura TL uses high-tensile steel, which is far more stronger than prev. Acura

6. Some people say lower cost item sells more than higher one
    G35 base price is cheaper than TL but TL sells a lot better

7. 0-60 TL gets 5.7 secs in many test or magazines while G35 maybe only 1 if not none.

8. TL has more luxury features than G35 or 330i
   G35 has compass, dusk sensing headlamp, RWD, first aid kit that TL lacks while TL has 16 more features that G35 lacks plus 5 more which both car has but TL has it bigger/better

9. 2004 TL has less higher-frequency wind noise at the driver passenger ear point than BMW 530i, Infinity G35 and Lexus ES 300. It is also measurably improved over the prev. TL(quoted from an article)

10. TL has 5.1 DVD-A DTS ELS with 500 times more clarity and much better than Nakamichi or Mark Levinson (quoted)

11. TL mpg is more efficient than G35 ( TL 19/29 vs G35 18/26)
12. Consumer Report rank TL #1 over 330i #2.
    It is said that "This rear-drive model is a pleasant car, but has some drawbacks. The G35 draws abundant power from its strong 3.5-liter, 260-hp V6 and exceptionally smooth automatic. Routine handling is agile, but when pressed the tail can slide out unexpectedly--even with stability control. Expect a well-controlled ride and nicely suppressed noise levels. The front seats are comfortable, but a bit short on thigh support for tall drivers, and the power-seat controls are poorly marked and confusing to use..."

    Car and driver rank TL #3 after 325i because it doesnt have rwd feeling.
    Car&Driver Barry winfield said I thought the combination of performance, quality, value and driving enjoyment too great not to merit inclusion. He admit voting for TL.

    Consumer report is known for its non bias report that doesnt accept ads. Or contribution from automaker while Car and Driver does.

13. More highways than long winding road. Even though TL runs very well on straight line and curve(very fast on slalom) but unfortunately the road we find today are more straight and less curving.

14. Previous TL rank #7 on Top ten car with the best residual value 2003, while I dont see any G35 on the list.

15. TL has voice command on navigation, audio, climate, hands free link

16. zzzzzzzzzzzz

merc1 · February 2004

I hear and understand what you're saying, but you're talking about the here and now status of the 3-Series vs the G35, which I agree the G has surpassed it in several areas.

However, Lexus won't need to look at the TL for anything that you list, because they already know how to build a quality car, arguably a higher quality one than Acura or Infiniti. As far as chassis dynamics go, the TL isn't the benchmark for them either. While the TL may have posted superior numbers in the latest comparo, the IS and G are rwd and thus deliver a different driving experience, plus superior numbers don't alway equal superior chassis dynamics.

Truth be told chassis dynamics and the overal driving experience is what puts the 3 on top for most, not value or high-quality. The Japanese already have the 3-Series beat in value, and in quality (depending on how you judge it). The G is the first one offer the same type of complete package as the 3.

Value isn't a Lexus trait unless you shop them against German cars. Lexus doesn't usually play the value card against other Japanese cars. For example the ES330's MSRP can soar much higher than just about any and all of the Japanese cars in the price range, only the German cars are higher, in most cases. I seriously doubt they'll low-ball the price of the next IS when they feel they're created a superior car. They'll price it to be a relative bargain or value compared to the 3-Series, not a G35 or TL.

"I just don't think that it is the clear cut leader in this segment any more." (3-Series)

I agree with this statement, but the "benchmark" for the class is still the 3-Series, none of these companies: Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, Jaguar etc are anticipating the next G35, they all however are anticipating the next 3-Series. It sets the pace for this segment.

I will take years of domination by the G35 to displace this type of status the 3-Series has, not just a couple of good years. I guess I look at a benchmark as also including market and industry presence, not just winning road testings. So we may have to agree to disagree.

That said, I want a G35 Coupe myself.

danny1878,

RE: Your points:

1. I wouldn't put to much faith into a Consumer Reports roadtest. They generally are clueless about such things.

2. I think its a little bit much to split hairs about reliability between what is basically a Honda and a Nissan. Neither is perfect, but both are much better than anything from Germany or America. Lexus, per the surveys sits higher. So either way its a fight for second place here.

5. Honda does traditionally uses thinner sheetmetal than others. High-tensile steel is in the body structure not the actual sheet metal, otherwise you'd have an actual tank.

M

iwantonetoo · February 2004

I like your definition of benchmark. When I think of benchmark, I think of it as the standard to which others in its class are compared to or judged against. I don't own either of these cars or a BMW, but why are all these manufacturers trying to make a better car than the BMW if the BMW isn't the benchmark? They have all stated that BMW was their target and they all are trying to build a an auto that will equal or better it. Sounds like they are considered the benchmark by their competition, doesn't it? But in the end, all that really matters is that you are happy with your purchase, and these are all excellent automobiles.

jrock65 · February 2004

If by benchmark you mean market and industry presence, then no argument here. Heck, the 3-series practically created this segment. I had defined benchmark to be the clear-cut class leader, and opined that there really isn't one anymore.

"none of these companies: Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, Jaguar etc are anticipating the next G35, they all however are anticipating the next 3-Series."

I'll have to respectfully disagree here, however. I'm not sure about MB and Jag, but I'd bet that Lexus and Acura are anticipating the next G35 as much as the next 3-series. First, because the G35 has been a "success" so far. Second, because Japanese cars are more likely to be cross shopped with each other than with German cars. Third, because the G35, IS, and TL are closer in price and will be cross shopped more in this regard.

All very good points on your part, and this is a fun debate. I'm eagerly awaiting the next IS and 3, as well as the rumored, interior-tweaked G35.

merc1 · February 2004

Good points from you as well. We could sit here all day and debate what gets cross-shopped, as people are seemingly all over the board nowadays....just look at all of the this vs that comparos on this board, some are apples-apples, others are grapes-watermelon. One of the more memerorable ones was the 325i vs ES330. I don't think there are two more opposite cars in any market segment/price range...lol!

I personally think everyone at least *looks* at most of the cars between 30-35K, especially the German brands, after all they did create this segment. But I see what you mean about the G/TL/IS being shopped more closely because many aren't going to look at the Euro cars because of reliability concerns and yes...price.

I too am waiting on the 2005 G35 (Coupe for me) interior refresh. If they put as much effort into re-doing the G's interior as they did the Altima's, they will have erased the only major flaw I can find on the car. The Altima's new interior is like night/day.

M

kdshapiro · February 2004

"I personally think everyone at least *looks* at most of the cars between 30-35K"

I agree, a lot of people shop on price. I know I do. The only reason to consider a TL vs an ES vs a Jeep Grand Cherokee, is because they are all in the same ballpark as far as dollars. But that is my way of doing things. Sometimes 0-60 isn't the measure of what you want to spend your dollar on.

raher · February 2004

Interesting posts on bench marking. I believe the manufacturers actually benchmark all competing brands in their efforts to build cars that will sell. I don't think there is only one benchmark in any class. BMW has certainly been an acknowledged benchmark for Lexus, Honda and Nissan in terms of handling and performance but at the same time the Lexus ES300 was probably the benchmark for luxury features. The bench marking is done from several different perspectives since they are all trying to find a combination of traits that will equate to increased sales. Price as KD says is certainly an important benchmark for all of them and it is a benchmark that the new TL obviously devoted a lot of analysis to. The word value is used in most comparos involving the TL.
There is no clear benchmark anymore, the ante will constantly keep being raised. I am sure when the new 3 series comes out they will have been bench marking their aggressive competitors and that bench marking will show up in the form of new interior, more power etc. Hopefully the benchmark of price won't be neglected by BMW since they have some work to do there in terms of competing with the Japanese. It's all about sales in the end. That is the reason they all do bench marking, so they can offer products which will increase their sales. The consumer appears to be benefiting from the influx of technology and luxury features into these cars and in the end the real differences are fairly small and we spend endless hours trying to convince each other that the one we personally like is the best.
It beats shoveling snow.

chrisboth · February 2004

" Handling is great up to a point (I've also driven the TL with summer tires) but with its front-wheel-drive layout and more weight over the front wheels, the TL is just not as balanced as a rear-wheel-drive BMW 3-Series or an Infiniti G35. Of more concern to me was the tug-of-war between the engine and the steering under hard acceleration when cornering - not exactly torque-steer, but more torque-influenced." CANADIANDRIVER

That is from the quote someone's link posted above - good job too

Someone mentioned the G35 is not a benchmark...Take a look at the new Lexus GS for 06. Looks like they stole the G rear quarter panels and put them on the car - imitation is the sincerest flattery...and lexus is pretty good company to look like.

""perfect balance and world class brakes that even the Italian supercars can't quite duplicate."

What Italian supercar would that be?
M "

Most of them can't stop as fast as the G - I belive one Ferrari can and one Lambo can. I may never have this competent a set of brakes on any car ever again...they are undisputedly the best in the business for cars < $150,000 as any owner having experienced them in panic stops can attest.

Edmunds quotes Nissan as saying the G was becnhmarking the 540i and the M3. The Tl becnmarked it for looks obviously but they can not be serious about the 5 in terms of platform influence - It's FWD. BMW would never call a FWD a sports sedan!

All the reasons to buy a TL listed above are fun and good if you like bluetooth or 5.1 more than serious sports driving. Having a reinforced Accord with passat purple lights, weak seats, voice command navigation and some ambient lighting only helps you forget that you are driving a proven and thoeretically deficent platform.

G is on a Z platform - if you want to understand balance I suggest you try a test drive in a G or Z - the front midship RWD concept is one that ALL manufacturers will be moving towards...you wanna chat about benchmark - it starts with technical superiority and the FM platform is being adopted by even supercar designers.

If in 3 years the TL is not RWD and the engine planted behind the front wheels then I certianly expect them to dissolve as a company and stick to Accords and Civics.

And sales comparisons ...are you kidding - more people buy the TL as it appeals to more conservative mainstream buyers - like a Tuaras.

When the 3 is redesigned I bet it has a FM platform and more power - lets see who is mimicking who...

billyperks · February 2004

Stop calling the kettle black-

The G stole the GS front end- take a look next time when you are in your garage.

billyperks · February 2004

I really don't take your post seriously-

Take a look at the G35 board, owners are complaining about the incompetent brakes of the G35.
If memory serves me right there was a recall issued for this-if that is what you called world class you can keep them.

As for seats-Owners were also complaining about the uncomfortable seats in the G.

The short cushion that does not go all the way out to support the under thigh.
The weird positioning of the seat controls.

Buddy get real and stop praising a WORK IN PROGRESS CAR.

chrisboth · February 2004

Are you to be taken seriously??

The front end of the G35 mimics the 911 with its stacked appearance and catamaran design - very different to me. The front of GS is not what I think G was after - a lot of cars look similar now and the G stands out in so many ways that people love it or hate - its unique and not like many or any to most. Again - looking like a lexus isn't really that bad anyway - for the rear quarter that is.

"Take a look at the G35 board, owners are complaining about the incompetent brakes of the G35.If memory serves me right there was a recall issued for this-if that is what you called world class you can keep them."

I will keep em and get em replaced for free should an issue arise. You cant have this stopping power and expect them to last for 90 k like a celica...You have never stopped so fast in your life once you've slammed the G to a stop. My family appreciates it and if you really drive your sports sedan you can appreciate them.

"The short cushion that does not go all the way out to support the under thigh.
The weird positioning of the seat controls."

I'm 6'5" 240 with no problems...

"Buddy get real and stop praising a WORK IN PROGRESS CAR. "

If its a work in progress then its a work in progress that best the industry standard that will only improve. What the hell is still in progress? The platform is in stone and will remian relatively unchanged for a couple more years and as it stands will continue to own it's competitors.

The work in progress is the TL that will have to evolve like the rest of the class and get with it on platform evolution. A front driver accord and serious sports sedan on the same platform says they are light years away to me.

kahunah · February 2004

The G35's God-awful interior layout for starters. That's what turned me off getting the G sedan.

danny1878 · February 2004

G35 is not a luxury car and its not trying to be one. Agreed.

In today's road style/highway , which car that has driveability issue? Does it mean the car runs better in snow/0-60/slalom/top speed? Just curious.

Do people believe bias report more than "the one" that doesnt accept ads. and contribution from automaker (non bias)?. Consumer report is the only one that compare anything for the sake of consumer not automaker. If the most qouted report dont matter, if the most selling vehicle dont matter, well you might have forgotten about rule #1 which is X car is the best and if you forgot please look again at rule #1

Honda keep its old tradition doesnt mean that it keep the same steel to shape the body of Acura TL. Even with previous acura its different. The G35 offer the first complete package compared to the 3 while TL offer the first complete package for The 530 plus more.

Acura and Infinity still fighting for second place? ES3x0 sales record is only 3k+ while TL is over 5000 unit. and dont make me compare its stats for performance

I dont know about comparing the future of a wannabe vehicle besides I am not a fortune teller. Just like comparing using the 'IF' word, if the car has performance package like A-Spec or if the new Acura TL has wings, if the road is only winding not straight etc. No offense but its hard.

chrisboth · February 2004

any suggestions?? an M5 would be nice

kahunah · February 2004

Nobody told me Carmen Electra was an option on the TL!

chrisboth · February 2004

would also be nice - you'll notice the super sedans will only be RWD. The A-spec is still the same low torque motor with another 30hp. How much will that cost? Not much I'd bet as it wont be competing with V's or GTR's or M's

mariner7 · February 2004

ES only sold 3K+ in January. Great, can't wait to hear what those Lexus snobs have to say.

If you add G & Gcoupe sales, they equal TL & CL sales.

ewoq · February 2004

All this nit picking goes nowhere since each writer has already made up their mind as to which vehicle they'd prefer. I way I see it - both G35 and TL were designed to compete in the entry level luxury sports sedan market and in order to gain market share. Nissan, Honda (and Toyota) package and price their versions (all good vehicles) at 15 - 20% below the acknowledged leader, BMW's 3 series. The engine displacements continue to increase to match/beat the competition. Their overall dynamics don't quite match but are very close, much as their price reflect. No doubt in my mind the RWD is the way Nissan and Toyota decided is the configuration that will give the best balance and driving dynamics - just physics. Honda has tweaked the FWD configuration in the TL to produce amazingly good handling numbers - probably close to the limit. The torque steer is moderated, especially in the automatic form. Drivers coming from FWD cars will find a huge improvement in the TL and likely may not appreciate the subtle differences in driving a RWD. The stats may match, but the feedback and handling balance is different. For most of us, the demands made on these cars are less than the capabilities designed into them so whether it's FWD or RWD is a wash.
A writer above stated well - the G35 is more driver's car if feedback and handling dynamics is important. That's my preference and the likely purchase when the interior gets the upgrade and tone down the exhaust. The TL has a modern, sleek and well thought out interior - quiet, and wonderful for commuting and unstressed travel, yet the car can play with the best of competition. This is definitely a good buy - there's virtually no downside. The differences are marginal and subtle - to some, that's important. FWIW, that's how I see this discussion.

jrock65 · February 2004

Which site has the monthly sales figures for Toyota/Lexus?

Nissan and Honda puts out this information, but I can't find the Toyota info anywhere.

danny1878 · February 2004

Sorry I took the wrong data, it was for dec 2000, forgot to check the year lol. Jan 2004 sales for lexus ES330 is 5254 units.
Sorry for the inconvinience

This is the link : http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- - - - - =20040203

But still ES330 only rose about 11.6 percent compare to 47.7 percents by Acura TL(5036 units). Next month with such growth we just have to see.

kahunah · February 2004

jrock65 · February 2004

When Jan sales do come out, which site will post them?

gshamis · February 2004

I would've loved to buy either TL or G35 sedan.
But TL doesn't offer AWD and G35 doesn't offer 6-speed on it's AWD, also they have the weaker engine on the sedan.

And neither manages customer expectations well -- I can't figure when/if either of them will fix "my" problem :-)

so for the next 3 years I am driving an A4...

jrock65 · February 2004

How do magazines test 0 to 60 times? Do they use some kind of external gauge, or do they just use the odometer on the car?

Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL

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