Toyota Prius

eandlcubed · October 2003

to answer backy's question regarding starting the engine in really cold weather, you shouldn't worry since the car will run the engine until it is at a fully operable temperature before it is shut off. i have driven mine '02 in really cold weather (below freezing)and the car's engine runs initially for 10-15 minutes before it is shut off. i would assume the '04 works the same or better.

xcel · October 2003

Hi Backy:

___You only have to look back 10 or so pages to see the Prius is a lot closer in size to a Corolla then a Camry ... As for price, you can pick up a Corolla LE almost fully loaded for a touch above $15K and a Camry LE similarly equipped for ~ $17,500. That is quite a bit less then $20,500 for the 04 Prius that will never pay itself off on fuel mileage alone given the higher initial outlay, higher initial front end tax load, and higher TCO even after the minimal Federal Deduction worth a maximum of ~ $560.00 for most. Higher income individuals, a hair more, lower income individuals, a lot less.

___John1701a, electric A/C wont make a bit of difference to anyone except for engine shut off which your family, friends, and neighbors probably could care less about as well. If you think it will, ask your family, friends, and neighbors if they would like an electric A/C vs. a belted one to make the cabin the same comfortable 68 degrees on a hot and humid day. First thing out of their mouth will probably be how much more does it cost since to the end user, they will operate exactly the same in 99% of all cars on the road today.

___As for your comment about recognition, again, are you worried about being recognized or saving the planets natural resources? You are paying a $5K premium for the recognition while driving a slower, lower performing, and possibly a lesser handling automobile. If they offered the Corolla LE w/ a Hybrid drive train, how many more tens of thousands of Hybrids would be purchased thus saving natural resources and cleaning the air? That isnt what I would call a no frills automobile given the lux features you can purchase it with vs. the 04 Prius. Along with that same reasoning, what is leather and a sunroof worth in a Corolla in comparison to a Touch screen LCD and steering wheel controls on the Prius?

___Another issue ... Why should anyone have to insert a fob into a slot and move their hands to another position to push a button? If you order the option of keyless start (which is only included in a $1,280 option package or more, is it not?) then yes, but for the average Prius buyer, why do you have to perform two actions in two places instead of two actions in one place like the rest of the world starts their own cars? I would think the latter is the easier and more intuitive of the two?

___Lastly, I like the looks of the 04 Prius myself.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

john1701a · October 2003

> I've read that the '04 Prius uses only the electric motor
> under easy acceleration until the speed gets to about 40 mph

File that under MISCONCEPTIONS.

That's just plain wrong. Speed has nothing to do with acceleration. In reality, it's electric draw. If it remains under 10kW, then the engine stays off. Then when in exceeds that threshold, the engine starts up.

> as I get up to speed the gas engine starts up and has
> zero chance to warm up before it must cope with highway speeds

This is a serious MISCONCEPTION too.

Exactly the opposite of what you've been lead to believe actually happens. I've driven my Prius in MINNESOTA for the past 3 winters. I know what really happens.

In the winter, not only does the engine have a chance to warm up, it actually gets a longer time than in the summer. The electric propulsion is favored even greater in cold conditions.

Keep in mind that 11kW is the actual tolerance and that the engine ALWAYS generates electricity on-the-fly when thrust is provided. So there's much more to work with than you think. Also keep in mind that that engine was designed for rapid warmup (since the emissions system needs heat to work effectively).

HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) in Prius is clearly superior to traditional gasoline engines. I wonder how long it will take before everyone figures that out. Hmm?

JOHN

john1701a · October 2003

> electric A/C wont make a bit of difference

Obviously, you still need to actually ask some people what their opinion is.

Once they understand the following, they really will find the electric as an appeal factor.

When asked, some will express the concern about loss of power that traditional A/C causes during acceleration, since the engine can only supply so much power and some must be used for driving a belt. But in Prius, there's more electricity available that what the propulsion system needs. And it's an electric motor that feeds the A/C pump, not the engine. So you can still run the A/C without interfering with driving performance.

JOHN

xcel · October 2003

Hi John1701a:

___Loss of power w/ A/C on? Are you speaking to ICE based automobile owners or other older generation Hybrid automobile owners? The performance of even the latest 04 Prius cant match that of a 4 year old Corolla so bringing up a performance issue would seem to be a losing proposition from just about anyones viewpoint. If you wanted performance, you most certainly wouldnt want to own a Hybrid as they are slower then 95% or more of the passenger vehicles on the road today.

___Again, ask anyone about electric A/C vs. belted mechanical and get their reaction. You can explain it away anyway you want. The Prius is a slower vehicle with Belted or Electric A/C vs. almost any other vehicle yet the belted A/C has worked for 50 years just fine in automobiles of almost any type?

___Finally, you commented, HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) in Prius is clearly superior to traditional gasoline engines. I wonder how long it will take before everyone figures that out. Hmm? Are you speaking of lower performance, higher initial cost, higher TCO, or just better efficiency? On the Hwy at 50 mpg, could you not do the same with a Corolla using a smaller ICE based engine yet still match the performance of the 04 Prius? As discussed over at Insight Central, PZEV is as close as adding another $100.00 worth of vapor and exhaust emission HW so its not the emissions that you are paying that $3 to $5,000 extra for.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

john1701a · October 2003

Wayne,

We have all figured out that you are against hybrids that aren't cheap and don't deliver in the short-term. Simply repeating the same facts over and over and over and over again doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything... yet you keep doing it.

What is your purpose?

Others come here to ask questions and share their observations.

JOHN

xcel · October 2003

Hi John1701a:

___Actually, I am not against Hybrids and posting an apparent attack in this forum is probably against the rules? As for your own ideas, I believe you are so passionate for the Hybrid cause that you have marginalized logic to the point of not considering any other possibility whether that be available or just possible. I am simply against paying a premium for a Hybrid when a Premium should not have to be paid. Place the Hybrid Drive train in the recently redesigned Corolla and see what it would cost? Do you think Toyota would pass on the $1 Billion or more in development cost of the 04 Prius onto the Corolla Hybrid purchaser or place it in the bank for future development?

___As for my reasons to post here, Backy brought up the Corolla and Camry just as you have, not me. If someone brings up a vehicle without the facts, I can pass on what facts I know just as well as you can inform others about the 04 Prius electric motors and such. The same can be said about your other comments like a no frills Corolla or the HSD being superior?

___This is that reality ... $5,000 + more that you must pay when PZEV, higher efficiency, and a much lower TCO is available from a std. ICE based Corolla with the same performance of an 01-03 or even an 04 Prius could have been available. Not only can Toyota achieve these base capabilities with a std. ICE based engine and achieve it while still being very comparable in terms of performance vs. the 04 Prius, they could do it and place hundreds of thousands of cars on the road a year vs. the constrained Prius production at a price of $20,500 which many will balk at. I dont even like discussing the 01-03 Prius given that vehicles performance isnt even in the same league as the 04 Prius, any recent year Corolla, or Camry with any engine ... Again, what is better for America, its cities, and its citizenry, a $20,500 Hybrid based Prius or a $16,000 to $17,500 Hybrid based Corolla that could sell by the hundreds of thousands? How about a slightly lower performance Corolla that can achieve 50 + mpg on the hwy while PZEV rated at < $15,000 using a std. ICE? Now you are talking whats good for America.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

john1701a · October 2003

> I am against paying a premium for one when a Premium
> should not have to be paid.

That's acceptable. But your comments accomplish nothing. All you are doing essentially is just complaining.

Try contributing something that will actually help reduce that premium, like promoting the sales of hybrids. Increasing production volume will accomplish that exactly that. And since there are lots of people willing to contribute to the effort by paying the premium now, your actions seem to be counter-productive.

JOHN

john1701a · October 2003

> posting an apparent attack in this forum is probably
> against the rules?

It's not intended as an "attack". But both here and on other forums, you state the same facts with no apparent purpose... which could be interpretted as an attack as well.

So, I asked what you want to accomplish.

JOHN

xcel · October 2003

Hi John1701a:

___I believe I have already tried to help Toyota realize how to sell 100s of thousands of Hybrids or at least more efficient and low emission automobiles instead of a relatively high priced specialty vehicle in numbers not even making a dent in todays fuel consumption or city air pollution. Is this a complaint or is it an observation? I dislike seeing anyone overpay for anything that leads to underperformance and the new Prius hits those two points quite well.

___As for your own posting in this forum, you should continue to contribute all of your knowledge about the Prius electrics, features, and amenities, and such but keep the unsubstantiated HSD being superior, electric A/C being superior, size being a moot point, the emissions being a reason to purchase, the Prius initial, TCO including the trade in cost being a non-issue, or any idea of comparing the Prius to an 04 Corolla or Camry to yourself without stating the facts as well? Now that I know what is involved in the PZEV standard, it wont be but a year or two and that many more vehicles should be available with it as std. Warranting the emissions equipment for 150,000 miles in a truck might be a sticking point given all the bouncing around that most do but its just a better sealed vapor system and one more cat on a ULEV based Compact/Mid-size and you are pretty much there.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

revka · October 2003

Hi Folks - For the sake of peace, let's please put this subject to rest. Also, we really need to keep the focus more on the subject of the 2004 Prius in this discussion.

For those interested, you can continue discussion about hybrids at large, and how they compare to other (non-hybrid) vehicles, in this discussion: Is it time to buy a hybrid? Are they up to the chore?.

Please note: Any further back and forth rehashing/bickering on this subject will be removed from this discussion. Thanks for understanding.

Revka
Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons

revka · October 2003

Feel free to email me if you have any comments/questions on this matter. Please do not address this with me here.

And let's get back to the subject of the 2004 Toyota Prius. Thanks! ;-)

Revka

john1701a · October 2003

> PZEV standard

How will that happen?

PZEV lowers the efficiency by a MPG or two in a non-hybrid. The automakers freaked out just last year about the new regulation that requires them to increase efficiency by 1.5 MPG. What would their incentive be to take a step backward?

Hybrids don't make that compromise. Instead, the cleaner emissions enjoy a significant MPG increase too.

JOHN

backy · October 2003

Seems lots of people have misconceptions about the Prius, e.g. C/D noted in its October review that the Prius "can operate as an electric-only car at low speeds". I wish I could find the article I read that stated that the gas engine will kick in at 42 mph if it doesn't do it before, but I can't find it now. John, what you seem to be telling me is that I shouldn't worry about the gas engine having to rev too high when cold because it will probably start up right away in very cold weather, is that right? I guess that makes sense because the battery power will be reduced somewhat in cold weather, so the gas engine will need to help more.

As for size of the Prius, the fact is that my statement about the Prius being closer in interior volume to the Camry than it is to the Corolla is correct:

Corolla: 90.3 cubic feet (less with a moonroof)
Prius: 96.3 cubic feet (112.4 with rear seat folded)
Camry: 101.7 cubic feet

It's true that the Prius is only one inch longer than the Corolla, but the Prius' wheelbase is less than an inch shorter than that of an Avalon. It isn't length that matters to me for size, but the usable space. So while some people might be comparing the Prius to compact cars like the Corolla, I choose to compare the Prius to the Camry in terms of price and value. Here's what Edmunds.com says about price:

2004 Camry LE automatic with side/curtain air bags and ABS, salsa red pearl: TMV $19,948

2004 Prius with side/curtain air bags (ABS is standard), salsa red pearl: TMV $21,160

The TMV for the Prius is the same as MSRP, but I happen to know at least one dealer in my area who will give me $500 off. Even comparing TMVs, I think it's pretty certain that I can make up the price difference of about $1200 in gas savings during my ownership of the car. Plus I'll gain hatchback versatility, which is very important to me. BTW, the price difference is even less if I compare the Prius to another car I am considering, the MPV. I just need to decide for sure if I can do without the 2 extra seats of the MPV. I use 6 or 7 seats so seldom that I am strongly considering the Prius, even if that means my family would need to take two cars once in awhile.

john1701a · October 2003

Yes, that's correct. The engine starts immediately in the winter, whether you need it for thrust or not.

The nice part is the running for the sake of heat isn't totally wasted. You can see that the battery-pack being recharged at the same time. The spinning of the engine is used for the generator and doesn't involve any stress, just a constant RPM.

JOHN

djasonw · October 2003

Hey foks...received a call from my dealer yesterday and my '04 Silver loaded Prius shall be arriving at the end of the month. I don't mind spending the money on technology which eventually will be embraced by other major manufacturers. I like the idea of Nav, side curtain airbags that you can't get in a Corolla or Echo. The other goodies are just icing on the cake. My dad has a Corolla which he loves but really wants the Prius now.

eandlcubed · October 2003

backy:
the engine starts right away when cold. it might take alot longer to shut off but your mileage increased because the a/c isn't on. i get higher gas mileage in winter than i do in summer because i constantly running the a/c. on the '04 prius, this wouldn't be problem because the a/c supposedly runs on battery juice and there is more "juice" on reserve than on the older models...

little_pogi · October 2003

I read a lot of posting complaining about the Prius unreasonable priced higher than the Corolla or the base Camry. Maybe Toyota should come out with a leather seating and wood trim version and rebadge it a Lexus HS(Hybrid Sedan)120. Sell the the base model for $25K and hear people praising Toyota for introducing the cheapest Lexus ever.

john1701a · October 2003

> it might take alot longer to shut off

But the nice part is that it will now remain off longer.

The 2004 Prius has a new thermal storage device that retains heat for reuse after the engine has been shut off. We've begun calling it the "Cat Warmer", since the ultimate goal of it is to insure that the catalytic-convertor is warm enough to thoroughly cleanse the exhaust passing through it. And as long as it remains warm, the engine can stay off. Those of us in the north will really benefit from this new feature.

JOHN

backy · October 2003

Just talked to my local dealer in the Twin Cities. They will be getting their first demo units in mid-November (was mid-October). The sales reps are getting trained today and tomorrow. They have 27 cars on order, which the rep expects will use up their allocation well into January. However, he said he won't have a real good idea of the allocation picture until the factory is fully ramped up, which he said should be in November. He offered to call me when the demo units are in, which I thought was a good sign for customer service given the high demand for the car.

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

my MA dealer will start seeing 2004 Prius soon.
the first of his cars are on boat headed to the
Port of New York on 10/14.

my car is due into port at the end of the month.

I got to see the first 2004 in New England on Sat.
at a hybrid gathering. It was just driven in on
Fri. night. Silver 2004, burgundy/grey interior,
only 244mi on it when I got a quick drive in the
Worcester Airport parking lot... fully loaded BC model.

I haven't had a chance to clean up the photos or
put comments on them, but:
http://www2.kluge.net/2004/

2004 is taller, and definately longer, than my
2001. seats are comfy. I think that anyone shorter
than I am (5'2") might have problems reaching the
hatch when it's open. the cargo area is a good
size, easy to slide things out of. lots of little
hidden storage areas in back. reverse beep (inside
only) is kinda annoying, but there is a disable
dance listed in the repair manuals that I didn't
get to try out. higher treadwear tires, yea! I
could cross my legs in the back seat of the 2004,
which is difficult to do in my 2001. Unfortunately,
the car was not powered on for most of the day, so
we couldn't try out the radio and Nav or the power
outlets...

jeep2jetta · October 2003

...Thanks for the great pictures Michelle.

raguero · October 2003

I just recently jumped on the Prius bandwagon (sedanwagon?). It looks like an awesome car with the mpg and environment features as bonuses. My dealer in Santa Monica is getting in 30 THIS Friday. There are 50 people that have already put down a deposit though. Toyota has pre-sold more than 10,000 site unseen!
I got to see one at a local symphony hall here in LA last Friday night. I was amazed at the interior room.
For those not wanting a hybrid, get a gas guzzling, smog producing gas engine car. For anyone hoping for cleaner air (a fantasy but an attainable one) this IS the start of something good.

jeep2jetta · October 2003

Michelle, from your pics, I noticed that the rear view mirror has what looks like three garage door opener buttons. Is this correct?

john1701a · October 2003

> Toyota has pre-sold more than 10,000 site unseen!

Technically, I can't be included in that count now. I SAW 4 OF THEM TODAY!

That was quite a sight!!

On Wednesday, I'll have the opportunity to drive one of them. I doubt I will though. I'd rather document the first-impressions of others there and snap off a whole bunch of photos. Waiting isn't a big deal now. My own 2004 is just days away from delivery. Then I can drive it all I want... and I will too!

JOHN

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

The car I saw had the BC package (fully loaded).

On Prius packages that list either "Homelink" or
"electrochromatic mirror," you'll get those buttons. (BC included)

My understanding is that Homelink will let you
program in your garage door opener, or some X10
turning lights-on/off thingie.

The electrochromatic mirror had a light sensor on
the back side of it (front windshield side). My
understanding from others is that it'll automatically
dim your rear-view mirror for you (green, not grey)
if a bright light hits it (someone with high beams,
for example).

jchan2 · October 2003

Not a bad idea. For those of us image-conscious and environmentally conscious people, we finally have our car!!!!!!! (add a Mark Levinson and swap out the JBL and add another $500 to the price and I'll sign right up!!) Don't forget tan leather........

bpraxis · October 2003

The Prius is a very attractave vehile IMO with a distictive trapozoid futuristic shape. I especially like the pics of the burgandy exterior.

  Without much knowledge of the hybird synergy drive I can not say how well the system will operate but on paper it looks great. Toyota is now saying that they will release a new Lexus RX model that will have 300 combined horsepower and get 36 miles per gallon. WOW!

  The Prius is the first attractive hybird vehicle that I have seen that I would consider for purchase. And where has the lumbering American manufacturers been regarding the developement of this technology? Far behind as usual.

  Toyota should be applauded for developing a breakthrough product that in my opinion will far exceed marketing sales targets. It is a matter of time now before we are flooded with similar products and wonderous new technologies.

brozhnik · October 2003

I thought I understood the question about starting in deep winter, but I don't think I understood the answer, so let me rephrase it. Okay: you the Prius has two engines-- electric and gas. Now, the gas one presumably is lubricated by oil, and as with any other motor, it takes a bit of time when you start on a cold morning for the oil to warm up, get around and fully lubricate the moving parts. Now, I assume that will be true on a Prius just as on any other car.
But... not only will the oil be congealing down below when it's cold. Worse, when the gas engine finally kicks in to take over from the electric on a cold day, you'll probably be going kinda fast. So the first few minutes of using the gas engine will do more damage to that engine than on a usual car, where you can drive around slowly for the first five minutes to warm the engine up.
Now, I don't know if the above scenario is true; but I didn't understand if someone showed why it isn't. So... real slow this time, please... what's wrong with the above picture? Or is it true that this will be a problem?
Thanks.

eandlcubed · October 2003

hello barney:
i guess you don't currently own a hybrid. the gas engine usually don't stay off that long. it is always kicking in and out to either (1) assists the motor in hard acceleration or (2) recharging the batteries. in very cold weather where i am, it takes about 10-15 from a complete cold start to shut down the engine. however the engine does not shut down long enough to have all the oil congeals down at the pan plus the oil is now at operating temperature (engine at operating temp). you know this because the operating engine temperature icon goes out on the dash. i don't think toyota engineers overlooked this scenerio when they design the car. hope this explanation helps...

jeep2jetta · October 2003

It looks like the package I picked does have "Homelink" - Package #4(AG). The only thing that I would have liked to have in this package or as a separate option are fog lamps. Thanks Michelle for the info.

taddison · October 2003

I stopped my my local Toyota dealer today and the salesman who rushed to greet me at my car as I got out of it didn't even know that the Prius was being redesigned for 2004!

Needless to say he couldn't answer my questions like whether they will have any rental cars available and whether any of the options can be added by the dealer on top of a package (because none of the packages are quite what I would want).

Anyone here know if any options are dealer-installable? I would want package AM plus the upgraded stereo and homelink options.

Saw the car at the Texas State Fair; thought it looked good except that the wheels look too small. They kept it locked but it did look quite spacious inside... I can't wait to drive one.

john1701a · October 2003

> not only will the oil be congealing down below

Warm oil is not necessary for engine protection. Cold works just fine.

What's needed is oil PRESSURE and complete DISTRIBUTION before the first cylinder fires.

With a 33kW motor in the classic Prius (50kW in the 2004), you've a ridiculously powerful starter. It spins the engine to between 800 and 1000 RPM beforehand. Then once oil pressure is established, the engine starts. That is an amazingly smooth process. A traditional engine, with a tiny starter only capable of spinning up to about 100 RPM for just a moment, just plain can't compete.

In short, a traditional startup is actually harder on an engine than what happens in a Prius.

JOHN

backy · October 2003

Those who have sat in a '04 Prius: how's the rear head room? Enough for a 6 footer (which my oldest son will be very soon)? The Edmunds.com review mentioned rear headroom is a bit tight, and I can understand why looking at the profile of the car.

Also, how is the driving position? Edmunds mentioned something about the steering wheel position. I've oversensitive to this potential problem in small Toyotas after driving the '03 Corolla and finding out it was designed for short drivers, and is quite uncomfortable for average-sized people like me.

paul34b · October 2003

DO the photos in the new 2004 Prius brochure have tinted glass? I didn't think this was an option but all of Toyota pictures show the vehichle with dark glass yet in the pictures people have left on this and other message boards there is no tinting. Can someone explain?

little_pogi · October 2003

The brochure mentions of High Solar Energy-Absorbing (HSEA) glass. There is a slight tint compared to regular auto glass. I myself was a little bit disappointed that the windshield did not even come with the dark visor tinting. The only dark tinted glass is the strip glass in the liftback portion just below the rear wiper.

eandlcubed · October 2003

i thought all new cars ('04+) regardless of brand coming stateside have to have the tire pressure monitoring system either standard or as an option after the bridgestone/explorer fiasco. true? i think the new prius has it as a standard item (got it off its website)

eandlcubed · October 2003

does anyone like the clear rear light housing on the new prius? it seems to be a trend in the states and here. we call it lexus lights while you call it euro lights. i think the "fast and furious" crowd in california invented the trend for their souped-up hondas and toyotas and it went mainstream in a bad way. i hope when the car coming to europe this jan won't have the clear light. keeping my fingers crossed

john1701a · October 2003

> I can find no indication of it from the windows sticker

Since the "low fuel" warning indicator isn't normally listed, I wouldn't expect the "low pressure" to be either.

JOHN

john1701a · October 2003

> does anyone like the clear rear light housing on the new prius?

It is a safety improvement. The difference between off & on is quite obvious that way. So I like it.

JOHN

htmlspinnr · October 2003

I feel the opposite. Any light which is red is ingeniously masked. If you get the opportunity, take a close look at the rear taillight assembly. You'll see a square silver reflector over the red tail lights which, in essence, hide the red unless the bulb is on. I must agree with John that this is an excellent safety feature in that nothing appears red unless they're lit up.

The LED brake cluster (top of the assembly) is also hidden, using mirrors to reflect light from hidden LED's. It appears to be a black strip until the LED's light up.

I only wish they'd have done the same thing with the ambers, but only in the interest of consistency.

I'll admit, the styling does take some getting used to, though.

htmlspinnr · October 2003

I've Pioneer ordered a BC packaged Prius. I've also driven one, and experienced a few others up close. I think my only "wish" - and I know that many of us are pining for this - is a clear means of adding an MP3 Player or implementing some sort of AUX-IN for any sort of portable player other than resorting to an RF or Cassette adapter. I feel that car with this much technology should have some openness in this regard. A method that is compatible with the AVC-LAN (network which controls the stereo and NAV components), whether built-in to the head unit or via external module, would be even better so as we could select this input via the touch screen. Anyone have any suggestions on how to implement this? Does Toyota have any plans for this in the future to satisfy us geeks who love music? A method that works with both base and Premium audio systems would be most desirable.

explorerx4 · October 2003

what happens with the battery pack after it expires? isn't it considered hazardous waste?
i did search on this discussion to see if it had been addressed, but didn't see what i considered to be an answer.

mrvadeboncoeur · October 2003

which battery?

the 12v battery is the traditional lead-acid type
found on the vast majority of cars. Lead, being a
heavy metal, is rather dangerous and must be
properly disposed of.

The NiMH (nickel metal hydride) traction battery
is rather benign compared to the 12v lead-acid
battery found in every car. The NiMH battery is
also easily recyclable. (that, and you can replace
just the bad cells in the battery, and not the
whole pack...) Toyota lists the lifespan of the
NiMH battery as the lifespan of the car.

things like the gasoline, motor oil, antifreeze,
and the mecury in the LCD display and HID lamps
are far more hazardous than the NiMH hybrid
battery.

jeep2jetta · October 2003

Michelle, since you had driven the '04 Prius recently, what are your thoughts, if any, on the driver's seat? My wife is 5'3" so she normaly adjust the seat height when driving our current car and suv. Does the Prius have height adjustments? When the brochure say 4 way adjustable seats, I would think that 2 of those 4 are the seat back.

jeep2jetta · October 2003

Are there anyone out there on this board that is from the Dallas (TX) area and will be taking the first delivery (Pioneers) soon?

pb17 · October 2003

Don't try to confuse me with facts. I've got my mind made up!

dupie · October 2003

Hi all:
The dealer called to day and our Peius has just arrived, correct color Salsa Red with all the options we wanted, thank you Toyota.
The dealer said that the car will be ready for pickup at 1:00 P.M. tomorrow, I think this is going to be a restless night for sleeping.
Lets hear from all you other new Prius owners who received you cars on the first days release in Minnesota. One happy retired old man, Ya ho. By the way I live in the northern suburbs of Minneapolis.
dupie61

brozhnik · October 2003

For me, personally, it's Prius vs. Camry. The only area I wonder about, where Camry seems to have an advantage, is crashworthiness. On the plus side, both have all the airbags (including head curtain) available. And obviously, we won't know how the two will compare for sure until the crash test ratings come out on the Prius. But that means it's decision-making under uncertainty here. With the Camry we know it has excellent front and front-offset crash tests; and while the side "star rating" is only 3, that's without the side/head airbags; besides, that particular test is conducted in an dubious way (not like the real world collision). Anyway, I know the Camry is good, and don't know with the Prius.
Also, the Camry weighs a few hundred pounds more than a Prius; in a head-on between the two, that would give at least some advantage to Camry by itself.
Finally, the Camry has the highest "profile"-- that high hood. That by itself makes me feel I'd rather be in it in a collision with an SUV -- I figure it'd be more likely to protect me.
I'd be happy if someone can convince me I'm wrong about this. Please try. I'd rather want the Prius.
[The Prius clearly has certain advantages: mileage (obviously), technology/dollar, theft - Camry is most-stolen vehicle, nobody will steal or be able to steal a Prius - and as for comfort, handling, etc., will be testable by test-driving.]
Thanks.

xcel · October 2003

Hi All:

___I cross posted this over in the Priusonline forum yesterday as well so hopefully more will see it. Please post the results when available if you find the time given the new car and all ... thank you.

04 Prius maximum mileage ...

___With the 01-03 Prius, Insights, Civic Hybrids, and just about anything else, many can beat the EPA hwy estimates with a number of changes to their driving habits (feathering a cruise or accelerator by decelerating and then accelerating while climbing, cresting, and descending hills, lowering hwy speeds, slow accelerations from lights and signs for the ICE or fast with Assist from the Hybrids, timing lights and toll gates, keeping momentum up even in bumper to bumper with a buffer, surf or straight drafts) as well as a few HW tricks like 44 to 50#s in the tires depending on type and maximum inflations? Anyway, since some of you may be driving your own 04 Prius tomorrow, please keep us informed of your own experiences as to mileage maximums on the hwy in particular. It would be great to hear first tanks vs. tenth tanks as you learn to drive the Prius to its maximums as well as after a few thousand when your break-in is truly over.

___Good Luck and Thanks in advance.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Toyota Prius

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