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Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > but I would think this would be a concern?

    The Classic Prius clearly proved there is absolutely no need to be concerned.

    I drove my 2001 through 3 Minnesota Winters without any trouble whatsoever. After sitting outside for the whole day in sub-zero temperatures while I was at work, the engine fired up every time. And unfortunately, I had lots of opportunities to try that. (The walk to the Prius sure was cold.)

    It didn't have the thermos. All the thermos does is provide heat for the catalytic-converter and warming you sooner. That's it.

    Having a 201.6 volt battery-pack, capable of powering the car for several miles, makes starting in the cold a whole lot easier than vehicles with only a small 12-volt battery.

    JOHN
  • rpgolferrpgolfer Member Posts: 157
    hybriddriver- Where in Northern Ca do you drive? (me-SF Bay Area)

    Hans000- 800 ft elevation difference in San Jose? Do you commute from Hwy 17/Hwy 9? Where would you find such an elevation in the valley? Mt. Hamilton?
  • finestackfinestack Member Posts: 26
    To bbridgewater and others having ordered their Prius prior to December and the MTCOY award:

    I am getting pretty tired of playing the waiting game. I ordered my MSilver Package 4 on October 18 from Superior Toyota in Johnson County (suburb of KC), Kansas. At the time, a senior salesman said I was about 17th on "the list" and could expect delivery between the end of the year and early January. That was fine with me.

    Subsequently, I have checked back in with Superior 3 or 4 times - alternating my questions between clarification of the dealer's allocation practices and Toyota's provided information about the Prius and its allocation practices (I have used advice from this forum, including trying to get a port arrival date/VIN number, asking for regional inventory/scheduled delivery, etc.)...to no avail. They seem to know nothing and be willing to say even less.

    My Prius is now supposed to be here "end of January - we hope".

    I was hoping that anyone in the same situation might come forward and share their experiences with information gathering, dealer promises (or lack thereof) and any tips on gaining visibility to the allocation practices of Toyota in general, and Midwest dealerships in specific.

    I noticed someone ordered a Prius in O'Fallon, IL in November and took possession before the new year. The details of your transaction are VERY interesting to me. As are those of others being kept in the dark.

    Thanks!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I ordered my Prius with package 3 in mid-November from a dealer in the Twin Cities. At the time, the sales rep said it would be 4-5 months and told me exactly where I was on the list--he even showed me the list. That was fine with me because the lease on my Grand Caravan isn't up until the end of May. He recommended that I be flexible on color choices, and I gave him 3 choices, in priority order, which he put on my order. He also said that I could move up on the list depending on what colors and packages they receive--the dealers don't have control over that. He did tell me that at the time I ordered, they were getting about 55% package 3's but he also said the package mix could change. Now, this dealer is the 5th largest in the Chicago region and get around 10 Priuses per month. From what I've read here, some dealers get only 2-3 per month. I believe that the sales rep (and also his partner) have been very up front with me throughout the whole process. I stopped in during the holidays to check on where I was on the list, and the sales rep's partner showed me the list and said that I might get my car as early as February but more likely March-April. April would be best for me. I'd rather get it after the snow season anyway--a little less salt on my new baby.

    BTW, I saw a Prius parked at the supermarket last night--blue. Looked like it had been washed recently. Very pretty color in the lighted lot--can't wait to see it in daylight (it's my #2 choice after Tideland Pearl).
  • cat42cat42 Member Posts: 2
    Just wanted to thank those who took the time to respond to message #2153 on the Prius vs Forester (kayak, bikes) topic (talleyid, john, little_pogi, juice). I appreciated your perspectives.

    I opted for the kindest-to-the environment option and ordered the Prius, as I believe my conscience will rest easier driving it. As John indicated, carrying a bike in the cargo area isn't a problem. And both Yakima and Thule say they anticipate developing a roof rack (it would help if they receive additional requests if there are others who anticipate occasional need for a rack!). The majority of my driving will be without a kayak atop, and I expect that the Prius will do fine for those occasional boat transports.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > I expect that the Prius will do fine for those occasional
    > boat transports.

    2004 is likely the year I finally get a light-weight canoe. I've been wanting a really good one forever. So once the Prius is finally paid off, I'll probably be able to get it.

    Anywho, it will be riding on top of my Prius... I'm just not sure how yet. It looks as though I may be able to get away with just using the foam holders. I can't confirm that until the temperature warms up quite a bit... like 70 more degrees! It's -3 F right now.

    JOHN
  • finestackfinestack Member Posts: 26
    Backy - the part I left out of my dealer story was they called one night in late December and "offered me the chance" to take a Tideland Pearl w/ Pkg 7 that someone backed out on. We went in and saw the car in showroom lights (they had it parked in their hot-special-car-must-see area). It was a nice color, rather light in the spotlight - and we liked the exterior a lot. The problem for us was the interior ivory. We have a dog who loves to get muddy and a kid we take out on weekends who also loves to spill things! Also the #7 (side air bags and VSC) was something I didn't want to pay another $1200 for.

    Anyway, my dealer HAS been good about calling when something like this comes up. I didn't mean to make it sound all bad. Just wish there was more visibility to the process...
  • bbridgewaterbbridgewater Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for posting your experiences, finestack and backy. My dealership, Jim Norton Toyota in Tulsa OK, seems to be helpless and unable to get much information. In fact, my salesperson suggested I might consider buying a different car - Corolla or Camry - from him if I can't wait. That just made me mad. I liked hearing that you went in to see exactly where you are on the list - I'll try that this week.

    I've considered looking for a Prius in a bigger market, perhaps the Dallas or Houston areas, since they would be relatively easy to get to on a one-way plane from Tulsa. Is there anyone out there who has experience with Toyota dealerships/Prius buying in those areas who might recommend a dealership?

    Anyway, tomorrow a gracious friend is driving me to my parents' (3 hours away)so I can borrow a vehicle until my Prius arrives, or until my folks want it back, whichever comes first.
  • geogirlgeogirl Member Posts: 24
    Please see my reply to you in Toyota Prius 2004 forum.
  • geogirlgeogirl Member Posts: 24
    Finestack,
    Have you seen the gray interior? I, too, thought that I would get the gray interior because of kid spills and dog, but the gray is just as light as the ivory. I ended up with the ivory and now have ordered custom seat covers that are being made. They should be done next week and are suppose to accomodate the side air bags by having a flap where the air bags come out the side of the seats. They cost about $130 for both front seats and headrest and $120 for the rear seats, armrest, and headrest. This includes shipping. The name of the company is Great Covers - they have a website. As they are local, I am having them install mine next week. I'll let you know how I like them.
  • finestackfinestack Member Posts: 26
    Thanks geogirl for the seat cover tip. I am definitely interested in hearing how yours turn out - as my dog is dark brown and the kid, well, will be a kid! Maybe my perception of ivory has something to do with personal preference, too. I've always been partial to shades of black, white and gray.

    When this car finally arrives, $300 seems like a great deal for some peace of mind on keeping it looking good!
  • boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    We have a Subaru Outback that gets about 19-20 mpg in a mix of city/suburb and highway driving. This represents about 80% of the combined EPA mileage of 24.5 (22 city/27 highway). If I had a Prius that performed similarly, i.e. 80% of the combined EPA rating (55.5, 60/51), then I could expect to get about 44 mpg, which seems to be the range of what many have reported here, and which some people seem to think is scandalously low. I suppose it would be disappointing to get less than 40, as a few people have reported, but from my perspective, the real-world performance of the Prius sounds pretty reasonable.
  • talleyidtalleyid Member Posts: 34
    This is in response to Finestack's post. The details of my transaction, as best I can recall, are as follows:

    On November 7th I put down my deposit with Newbold Toyota. Our salesman said that he thought they were probably due an allocation and things should proceed smoothly. If there was a list at that time he didn't make me aware of it.

    Aprx. a week later he said that my "order" had been acknowledged by Toyota.

    About 2 weeks after that he said the vehicle was showing up on their "list" which they post in the dealership. I apologize but I didn't note what this computer report was titled.

    Later he notified me that the vehicle was scheduled to go to port that day. Throughout the process he gave me estimates but made sure I understood these were basically guesses because of variables during transit. He said I would probably get my car before the end of the year.

    He called me on Dec. 20th and said the car had arrived and would be prepared for delivery on 12/22. This is when I picked up the vehicle.

    I still don't pretend to understand the allocation system, etc., completely but fortunately for me I "ordered" a vehicle and received what I ordered (Driftwood Pearl #9).

    IMO if Toyota would just make this information available and clarify the process it would go a long way in lowering the frustration level we've all experienced or are experiencing!
  • talleyidtalleyid Member Posts: 34
    Here is another seat cover option that I saw mentioned by someone in one of the discussion groups (maybe I'm participating in too many!). These appear to be a nice option.

    http://www.misssideless.com/homepage.html
  • finestackfinestack Member Posts: 26
    Thanks for your details - they'll help when I call (again) and follow up today!
  • hybriddriverhybriddriver Member Posts: 23
    I also drive in the SF bay area. Mostly from Oakland to Livermore and back.
  • hans000hans000 Member Posts: 19
    I got into that state (not sure how) once in the first day. The weather wasn't freezing but raining. The parking brake light kept on regardless of parking break itself. Shift stuck in "N". Every button frozen... except "P": I got out of it by accidentally pressing "P"!

    I haven't seen this since then -- more than a month now. "First day syndrome"? Software bug?
  • hans000hans000 Member Posts: 19
    It's east San Jose/Milpitas. It has 1 mile of about 10% grade. Going up (30 MPH) is about 15 MPG. Going down has battery charged from 1/3 to just full.

    Yesterday drove on Santa Cruis Montains. Had battery going down to 1 bar while going up. The bar color changed to purple. No noticeable performance change (35 MPH) but engine kept buzzing charging the battery. Going down had battery charged full FULL. Then had highway 65MPH _on battery only_ for 5 minutes.

    ========== rpgolfer wrote:
    800 ft elevation difference in San Jose? Do you commute from Hwy 17/Hwy 9? Where would you find such an elevation in the valley? Mt. Hamilton?
  • dc8527dc8527 Member Posts: 12
    Each green symbol represents 50wh of regerated energy equivallent to a 50w bulb burning for an hour. Think about the headlights of any car. They must be hundreds of watts, at least. Getting a car to move needs far more energy than that to light up some bulbs. How many watts is equal to one horse power, 750? I would have to revisit my phyicics books to be accurate.
  • prius2004prius2004 Member Posts: 6
    I placed my order with Jay Wolfe Toyota in Kansas City Mo on Sept 17th for a driftwood BC #9. I was told to expect delivery anywhere after Thanksgiving and most likely in December. I making numerous emails, and hearing "When we here something, we will let you know." On Christmas day I sent out an email to every Toyota dealer in Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma to check if they had any BC packages coming in. I received a few responses with AM packages that they had or were due in shortly. A couple of days later I received one from Doenges Toyota of Bartlesville OK that they had a black BC that no one wanted on their waiting list and wanted to know if I was interested. I jumped on it. I was not crazy about black and wanting to wash it so often, but beggers can not be choosers. They expected it to be ready for pick up at the end of January. I learned last Monday that they would get it this last Wednesday. I picked up my new baby Saturday morning. The black looks really nice and it seems to make the car to look larger.
    Just do a little networking like when you are looking for a new job. Check with other dealers, they do get cars in that no one will want that are on they waiting list. It seemed to be the dealers in smaller towns that get them, not towns like KC.... I would still be waiting on Jay Wolfe Toyota. Enjoying my new baby. Take a few hours and hopefully it will work for you also in finding your car.
    By the way, you will enjoy it. The owners of where I work actually came from our headquaters to look at the car. They loved the styling and room. They were really impressed the keyless entry and start.

    Good LUCK

    Dean
    Smithville, MO.
  • little_pogilittle_pogi Member Posts: 149
    550 watts
  • umpireumpire Member Posts: 12
    Had my first test drive in an '04 Prius (Package 3) yesterday. Here are my observations and reactions:

    Positives:

    1. Quiet! Had a nice quiet ride even at 70 mph. We sat at a stoplight, and my son wanted to know if the car was still running.

    2. Handling/Ride. Very responsive and zippy in traffic while still providing a fairly smooth ride (every bit as good as or better than my VW Beetle).

    3. Controls. Very easy to reach, even those on the screen. I like most of the controls on the steering wheel or column. Took me awhile to understand the cruise control, but once I did it worked well.

    4. Room. Nice room in the backseat for even my 6'1", 190-lb. son. I am sure I can get all three kids in the back. The hatchback area is roomy, also, and the 60/40 split allows one to carry bigger items.

    5. Clean Lines. Both interior and exterior are clean and functional. The controls on the steering wheel/column help in this regard. Aesthetically pleasing vehicle.

    6. Mileage! Duh! :) But this is the major selling point for the car, and it is effective. I would spend about half what I currently do for fuel.

    7. Warranty. I drive many miles, so the 8-year, 100,000-mile warranty on the hybrid parts is comforting.

    8. Smart entry/ Smart Start. While the model I drove did not have this option, it is one of the best aspects of the Prius. My model will have this feature!

    Negatives:

    1. Seats. While the seats are comfortable, I have a long torso and my head comes perilously close to the roof liner. It would be nice to have seat-level adjustors. Also, I adore leather seats and would love to see them on the Prius. They add weight, I know, but I simply like leather.

    2. Rear View. It's not good to begin with, and with the split, it's difficult to see. The trade-off is more storage in the hatchback, but I hope Toyota can come up with a design that adresses both.

    3. Acceleration. While the acceleration is not too bad (one must expect less), the car is loud when accelerating hard (from ramp onto interstate). This was the only driving noise that bothered me.

    4. Steering Wheel. While the wheel is responsive and the controls are great there, it was too far away from me when my legs were at the perfect distance. It would be worthwhile to have a telescoping wheel (if it doesn't already).

    5. Reverse. What is with the backing beep? Is there a way to disable that? It might be acceptable if it beeped three times and stopped, but the continuous beep is annoying.

    6. Roof liner. Was floppy. Made that way or just a problem with this particular car?

    Overall, I was impressed with the car, and am looking at ordering one soon. The dealer (Green Toyota in Springfield, IL) said I would be guaranteed the color and package I wanted within 5-6 months. They require a $500 refundable deposit. The salespeople were helpful and not pushy at all.

    Good experience with this test drive!
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    Thanks you for the postives, they obviously speak for themselves...

    Negatives:

    Seats... The earliest models always lack certain nice-to-haves features. Toyota has already hinted that more will be added in later models.

    Rear View... It's probably your height. I don't have any problem whatsoever seeing. The top-sections shows everything quite clearly. But then again, I'm just an average 5'8" height. That's the beauty of HSD, you'll find it later in a vehicle more suited to your particular needs.

    Acceleration... Not must to say about that. It's normal for that engine design (different pumping cycle) and it fortunately only lasts a few seconds.

    Steering Wheel... Did you experiment with the tilt?

    Reverse... Yup, that (thankfully) can very easily be disabled!

    Roof liner... Can't help with that one. No one else has ever mentioned that. Perhaps it got whacked accidently and is now loose.

    Best of luck with the wait. Hopefully the increased production volume in the second cycle for this model year will help reduce the wait... at least some.

    JOHN
  • djg4246djg4246 Member Posts: 2
    Have heard from a half-dozen similar incidents. In all, pressing the P (park) button seem to free each from the "neutral state." The service folks that I spoke with during my frozen state didn't suggest this.

    And while I spent Monday at a Toyota dealership where they did a series of diagnostics, they found no codes, and they called California to discuss what happened but did not hear any suggesttions back. Would be nice to know the cause/prevention.

    Meanwhile, something for the FAQ's: When frozen in neutral state, try pressing Park.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > I completely disagree with John1701a's statement (#2774)
    > that " ..early models lack certain nice-to-have features" it
    > just doesn't have any foundation when you consider they
    > provide GPS, VSC, Xexon lights, Smart Entry, Homelink and
    > other advanced and luxury features

    Since I'm just repeating what was in an early press release for the new model, you can't disagree with me. Toyota said it.

    And all along, Toyota has been working to create a new category of vehicle (remember, to increase marketshare). So the logic of applying a "traditional feature list" doesn't make sense.

    More will come later, plain & simple. What those options are really doesn't matter, especially since the product they are selling has no dealer storage overhead whatsoever. Talking about a good cost reduction strategy.

    More later.

    JOHN
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    IMO the lack of a seat height adjuster was a cost decision, not a weight decision--I mean, how much weight would a manual seat height adjuster add? Not as much as the huge center console or the optional SABs/curtains I bet. I think Toyota put in features that it thought would add flash (e.g. Smart Entry and Start, voice navigation) and provide safety (e.g. ABS/traction, VSC, side airbags/curtains, HIDs) while they left off more mundane features to keep the price under the magical $19,995 figure, so they could say, "Look, we didn't increase the price over the previous Prius!".

    But to be fair, the seat does adjust more than just forward/backward--the seatback adjusts for rake, and the headrest is adjustable for height. It's still a lot more comfortable to me than the seats in some cars that have a height adjuster, e.g. the Corolla.
  • galootgaloot Member Posts: 13
    Just for the fun of it, I visited Jay Wolf's web site. It appears that they have the car you ordered for sale. Of course that doesn't mean they really have it. Maybe they are just taunting you for buying someplace else. Good luck with your black Prius; I'm still waiting. My dealer says they will call when they know something. Sound familiar??
  • umpireumpire Member Posts: 12
    I am only 6' tall, but my torso is very long (I have a friend wo is 6'4" and our heads are about the same height when we sit down). The seat level adjustor would be wonderful to have for comfort and safety.

    I did fiddle with the tilt, but that didn't make a difference--the steering wheel still seemed too far away.

    I have wanted a hybrid since they first came out, but they never built one big enough to fit my needs--until now. It will be interesting to see what optional/standard features will be available on future models. My feeling is that one will be able to drive a hybrid Lexus with full amenities.
  • mnemkomnemko Member Posts: 6
    First, I want to extend a thanks to John and to his opposing voice Midnight Cowboy for their dedicated and knowledgeable posts, although I wish they would respect each other more--both are well-intentioned in their own way. I've also appreciated Backy's comments.

    Now my question. I do a lot of driving at 75 and 80, and even at 85 or 90. Does anyone know how the Prius performs at those speeds: noise level, ability to accelerate, gas mileage?

    Thank you.
  • tim_hooligantim_hooligan Member Posts: 143
    I have seen a number of '04 Prius driving up I-95 at super-legal speeds (85mph+). They seemed to buzz right along.

    My concern would be stability with the narrow tires at high speeds. Your traction would not be as good as with a car sporting 225-series tires. Also, I'm not sure how the brakes hold up under such high speeds. Acceleration may be another weak point. Passing at 80mph requires a bit more planning and a steady nerve. It can be done though.

    From a physics standpoint, gas mileage decreases exponentially above 70mph. The drag increases quickly above 70mph and your mileage will begin to suffer. I'd guess you'd get an average of 50-52mpg at 70mph, but decrease to low 40's above 85mph. Any owners have numbers to back me up?

    My advice would be to not drive so fast, save some gas, speeding tickets, and your sanity.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the '04 has better acceleration than my Matrix - power is decent for passing and for holding speed up a hill, although if it is a really long grade you will eventually lose the electric assist, which will slow you down. This never happened to me however, try as I might to deplete the battery totally! :-P

    Don't know about the gas mileage at that moment, but I will say two things, (1) doing quite a bit of that type of driving, I managed 45.5 mpg over 500 miles or so, and (2) the computer at that moment shows some AWFUL numbers! (like 9, and 13) :-)

    The noise level of the Prius, particularly at speed, is noticeably higher to me than that of my Matrix. The tires are very noisy,and there is also moderate wind noise.

    As to this, "My concern would be stability with the narrow tires at high speeds.".....don't be silly. The Prius runs on 185-section tires and weighs less than 3000 pounds! The Camry of just three years ago ran on 195s and weighed several hundred pounds more. If it comes to it, this is still a very common size now for many cars out there. Certainly the Prius displays no stability problems when driving at high speed, and is less nervous in crosswinds than the corolla I had a for a couple of days a few weeks back.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • finestackfinestack Member Posts: 26
    I contacted Wolfe's internet manager and was told the vehicle listed on line was sold but they have a tester they have "committed" to keeping on the lot for test drives. I consider this a soft form of bait & switch for the fact that we all know about how big the back order is ... why spend effort trynig to trick savvy Internet shoppers??

    Anyway, further inventory research in my area (Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Dakotas) showed that about 1/3 of dealers are following this ridiculous "Wolfe-like" practice of trying to pull the virtual wool over our eyes ;)

    Buyer beware.
  • finestackfinestack Member Posts: 26
    MC - you have a right to those opinions and they are pretty interesting. The facts are that demand is in excess of 60,000 units for the year and Toyota says they will make a profit on those units. Debatable about cannibalism of other badges - and pretty much everything else, especially your list of "doesn't have's" that includes things the Prius does have??
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    I find Toyota's hybrid concept extremely innovating and interesting and far superior to any other manufacturers to date. I frequently browse this site to read comments from actual owners (I may be interested in purchasing the hybrid HL when it becomes available). I'm not going to comment on your long-winded message. It is apparent that you sure spend a lot of time trying to find fault with this vehicle/technology. Although your intentions may be honorable, it's to the point where I will no longer read your comments. I don't believe you own one... do you?
  • gscheil1gscheil1 Member Posts: 72
    Was at my dealer today and one of their sales staff who received the one-on-one training finally got my Siemens S56 phone to work on the screen. He WAS NOT able to get the phone list or address book transferred however. I get the signal and can make manual calls. Has anyone been able to figure out how to transfer the phone list? Its done through the phone instruction book but it kept stalling and would not transfer the lists. HELP, SIEMENS S56 USERS.
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  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Re what the Prius lacks...

    Leather and Power seats
    Yes. I don't like leather seats. I've only owned one vehicle with a power seat--somehow I've managed to live without that feature most of my life.

    Sunroof
    That would be a nice option, but I've never had a vehicle with a sunroof and I think I can do just fine without it.

    Retro digital speedometer and simple bar graphs.
    ??? I thought the Prius did have a digital speedo plus lots of bar graphs.

    Handling is only adequate
    Want fantastic handling? Buy a Bimmer. Handling is fine for a family car.

    Performance is only adequate
    Want fantastic performance? Buy a Viper (or fill in the blank). Performance is fine for a family car.

    Uncertainty on long-term battery reliability ( I predict the only way to alleviate this fear will be to guarantee the battery for the life of the car; becuase of the high battery replacement cost, even the 8yr /100,000 mile warranty is comforting enough)
    You could say a similar thing for any brand-new design--uncertain reliability (actually, CR says just that on new models it reviews). I guess all automakers could relieve the uncertain reliability of those new designs by guaranteeing the key parts for the life of the car. I don't see anyone doing that, though. The closest is the Hyundai/Kia powertrain warranty for 10 years, 100,000 miles--not far off the Prius' 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and other hybrid parts.

    One touch windows all around
    How many other $20k cars have this feature? And how often would I use it? (Very seldom)

    Backseat head room is limited.
    Yes, as it is for any other car with sloped-rear styling (e.g. Mazda3 sedan). Try before you buy.

    Noisiness of hatch and noisiness in general
    Actually I thought the Prius was very quiet on the road. Reviews by the car mags have noted how quiet the car is too. Maybe we are missing something here.

    Radio is only adequate and is difficult to change out; speakers can be upgraded and aux can be added, e.g. Mp3, but you are stuck with the basic integrated radio.
    Yes, this trend towards proprietary radios is not good, but Prius is not unique here. One option you have is adding XM radio--it can slide in nicely into the little cubby below the radio.

    No automatic lights.
    ??? They turned on automatically when I started the car and turned off automatically when I stopped the car and shut it off. Automatic enough for me.

    No memory seats.
    Not true--I remember the seats! ;-) Isn't this a subcategory of "no power seats"? How many other $20k cars have memory seats?

    No rainsensing wipers.
    Nope. I guess I'll just have to depend on the rain-sensing driver to flick on the wipers. Oh the inconvenience of it all! ;-)

    No accurate gas gauge or gas tank size.
    A problem with most cars I've owned--on the gas gauge front anyway. As with those cars, it's a matter of understanding the behavior of the car and adapting to it. Is that a real big deal? I don't think so.

    Gurgling and shuddering caused by coolant system.
    See the Honda Civic board (not the hybrid) for reports on the gurgling caused by the coolant system. I didn't notice any gurgling or shuddering on my test drives.

    Pricey for what you get at option package #9 a cost of $26K
    Interesting--I just read yet another review (from C/D) that raved about the value of the Prius--they were scratching their heads over how Toyota could offer the Prius with so much content at such a low price. What other cars are available at $26k MSRP with all the features of the Prius with Package 9?

    Very minimal discounts in price
    Yes--just like any other super-hot new model (e.g. Odyssey in its prime, Sienna now). If you want discounts, wait a couple of years for the new-model fever to subside and more competition to become available.

    Resale value is an unknown
    Yes--just like for any other new model.

    Long wait time to acquire
    Ah, but the best things in life are worth the wait, eh?

    Mainly fuddy-duddy color selection exterior and the only interior choices are light colored dirt magnets.
    I guess I'm a fuddy-duddy then--I like several of the exterior colors and the ivory interior.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    Short-Term thinking is definitely not the way Toyota chooses to run their business. Think Long-Term, it clarifies all the misunderstandings you are having.

    The 5 percent increase in marketshare goal is aimed for 2010, and so is the goal to have HSD available in all their passenger vehicles.

    They are right on schedule and currently in the pink overall. Each Prius model year has presented hardware & software improvements. The 2004 Prius are flying off dealer's lot. It is getting fantastic press acknowledge. And based on the success so far, the upcoming new hybrids are being highly anticipated.

    Why do certain people keep claiming this approach doesn't make any sense?

    JOHN
  • geogirlgeogirl Member Posts: 24
    Midnight cowboy,
    <Re: The Prius buyers are coming from somewhere, Toyota's hope is that they are previous non-Toyota buyers>

    While I may not be the typical Prius buyer and maybe this comment is more appropriate on the "Are hybrids up to the chore?" forum, but the Prius is my first Toyota. I was set to buy an Accord, but decided to test drive the Prius (we had decided not to get the Camry because it didn't offer a manual shift with the side air bags option). It was love at first drive and I have no regrets. Attractions? MPG, safety features such as ABS and side curtain air bags, clean emissions, interior room, and general coolness. Have package #3 so I don't have the smart entry/start or Nav system (didn't want them). I did a lot of research on cars before buying this one and think I made the right decision. I didn't look at other hybrids as I wasn't looking specifically for a hybrid. In other words, the Prius beat out all other non-hybrid cars in my price range! The best part is that with the federal tax deduction and state tax credit - the price is now the same as what I had negotiated a lesser equipped Accord down to. Oh yeah, the color choices are MUCH nicer than the Accords. All in all, this "soccer mom" is very pleased with her choice.
  • prius2004prius2004 Member Posts: 6
    I had my original order placed with Jay Wolfe. All I kept on hearing was when I know something I will let you know. Finally got fed up and posted on the internet to all dealers in MO, KS, IA, OK, NE that I was interested in a BC package. I received an email from Doenges Toyota in Bartlesville, OK that they had a BC black coming in that no one of their pre-orders wanted. I jumped on it-or I'm sure I would still be waiting. I was told by the end of December. Crowne Toyota, in Lawrence seems to get some un-allocated cars and also the Toyota dealer in ST Joe. Look at dealers in smaller towns around you. I had to drive 200+ to get my BC, and I just love it.

    Dean
    Smithville, MO
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    the hybrid RX and HL. They're not "green" they're RED as in gas guzzling hot-rods.

    0-60 times right up there in front.
  • peggyloupeggylou Member Posts: 40
    Thanks for all the feedback on my earlier post. I think I may try to rent a Prius through TRAC so I can see what it feels like to live with it for daily use. A 15 min test drive just doesn't cut it.

    I noticed NHTSA hasn't posted the crash test results for the new model yet, so I emailed them, and they said March/April results should be posted. Anyone here concerned about hte potential crash worthiness of this car? Or heaven forbid, been in an accident already and can (hopefully) rave over how well the car protected them? The previous model had a pretty dim safety rating, so I am thinking to hold off on purchase decision until test results are posted (unless my Windstar kicks the bucket sooner). Toyota has said they expect to get 5 stars, but then what else would they say? The built in safety features, trac control, VSC, brake assist, and optional curtains are all wonderful things that should help and do make me feel somewhat more comfortable if I did have to put in an order today.
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Toyota will NEVER offer this...it's a Lexus thing. Not even the $50-55K Land Cruiser has them!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If crash safety is a major concern, and you like the car otherwise, put your order in now and by the time your car arrives the NHTSA and IIHS reports should be out. If not, you can always get something else (be sure your deposit is refundable "for any reason").
  • bkswardbksward Member Posts: 93
    Going back about 30 posts or so.

    It is actually 746 Watts/ 1 horsepower.

    It is 550 ft lb/s = 1 hp.

    As far as power draw, a Sylvania Silverstar H1 halogen bulb draws 68 W maximum.

    http://www.sylvania.com/auto/silverstar.htm

    So, having high beams on is about 140 W of power. That's less than 1/5 horsepower.

    HID lights actually use less power than filament bulbs for the same light.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > HID lights actually use less power

    Yup!  35 watts.

    JOHN
  • bbridgewaterbbridgewater Member Posts: 9
    When my Prius FINALLY gets here, should I spring for extras? Specifically, do any of you have advice/comments/answers on the following?
    1. Is the extra warranty worth buying?
    2. Are there dealer additions I should consider (eg., floor mats, etc.)
    3. Does the dealership give you 2 key fobs?

    Thanks,
    Beth
  • ragueroraguero Member Posts: 60
    My Prius came with option pkg. 6. I would like to have had the HID headlights. Has anyone out there replaced the standard lights with HID? Is is possible? Also, I would have liked a better stereo. Does anyone have specs on the stardard radio? Does it have a subwoofer input/output or an aux output so that I could maybe get XM radio installed? I love my Prius! There's about 3000 on the odometer and I'm still averaging about 47 mpg. Thanks for any input.
  • boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    Shouldn't the Prius do well at 80mph vs, 60mph compared to other cars, because of the extremely low coefficient of drag? Wind resistance should contribute a lot to the low mileage at high speed, because it's proportional to the cube of the velocity, so there's more than twice as much wind resistance slowing the car down at 80 than at 60. Side winds will complicate that, of course, but the Prius should still have an advantage. Another factor that cuts down mileage at high speeds is engine RPM, which, if I understand correctly, should be less of a problem in the Prius because of the CVT-like planetary gear.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    lower power AND brighter, wider spectrum, light.
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