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I rarely ever get an RSVP. Yet everytime, there are at least a dozen that show up anyway.
They like the flexibility of deciding on-the-fly if they will attend (weather plays a big role) and when to arrive & leave.
JOHN
Anyways, what kind of real-world mileage have people been getting with their new 2004 Prius? Is it generally better or worse than the EPA estimates?
Actually, I'm not, though he keeps taunting me by posting misleading data. The "up to the chore" discussion has officially concluded and the topic marked as read-only. So there is simply no reason to repeat the same old info elsewhere.
> what kind of real-world mileage have people been getting
> with their new 2004 Prius?
There is no real-world data available for broken-in 2004 Prius in warm weather using summer-formula gas, yet.
Data from the WORST conditions is available. That has averaged to 45 MPG.
The real-world average expectation for the BEST conditions is 50 MPG.
Some (like me!) will hit the mid 50's from time to time... perhaps more.
JOHN
John. Thanks for your input. I hope we have a few people show up for our LA meeting. I'll take photos.
-juice
The batteries take the strain off of the ICE, producing better mileage.
Driving at a "constant" 70MPH for 3 hours is an ICE only asset.
IMMHO the Prius needs a switch to make the batteries off-line while cruising.
1) I don't ever see any difference in the mpg, based on doing anything I'm doing differently so where would someone get feedback from the car that helps them to drive better?
2) I tried to use the manual to learn better how to operate the car but found it (in all aspects) almost impossible to follow/read. It's written by someone for whom English is not a first language and is filled with "caution" and other warnings. Has anyone had any luck in getting a manual written in American English?
3) I'm unclear about the use of the 12v plugs. If I plug something in (i.e. a laptop) and keep it on while the car's engine is off, will I run the danger of depleting the battery?
Would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions.
Thanks
When the light turns green, generously drop the pedal. (But don't floor it, obviously.) That "BRISK" acceleration will make a world of difference. And since it is the way many people drive anyway, you may not even have to change driving habits.
The next serious problem new Prius owners encounter is tire pressure, they simply aren't aware of its importance.
You need an absolute minimum of 35 PSI in front (33 PSI in back). Softer will kill efficiency, as well as the tires themselves.
Increasing pressure (always with a 2 PSI bias in front) will both increase MPG and tire life. So it is very worthwhile to give it a try. My preference is 44/42.
Another efficiency factor, that is quite often overlooked, is oil level. You'll discover dealers squirt way too much oil from the bulk barrel into your engine (despite that being warned that it could cause damage in the owner's manual). Some owners have even reported having almost a entire quart over the "Full" mark. MPG will suffer as a result. Have the excess drained out immediately!
1/4" below the "Full" mark is the ideal level for the oil.
JOHN
AVOID SHORT TRIPS!
Since heat is needed for the emissions system, the engine must until heat is available. That means during the first 5 minutes of driving, the engine may not shut off.
In other words, you don't really get to take advantage of the hybrid system unless your drive is longer.
JOHN
Wait for break-in to complete.
Switch to synthetic oil.
JOHN
-juice
Driving 20,000+ miles a year (when it isn't necessary) at 50MPG is worse than driving 12,000 miles a year at 40MPG, right?
Plus my commute is 1.1 miles. So maybe this kind of distance isn't good for hybrid fuel efficiency?
-juice
> just avoid driving short ones
Or to COMBINE trips. Running several errands at once, rather than individually. (That will usually save time too.)
JOHN
> good for hybrid fuel efficiency?
Yes, efficiency will suffer to the extreme in that case.
1.1 miles is absolutely HORRIBLE on any type vehicle. The water vapor that builds up in the exhaust system never has an opportunity to get pushed out, so it ages at a very accelerated rate.
Also, 1.1 miles is so short of a distance you really should be walking. I did for countless years, even in the dead of Minnesota winter. (Heck, when I go out for a short bike or rollerblade in the evening, I do at least 10 miles.)
JOHN
Maybe you don't have families. Parents take kids to school and pick them up. You drive to sports practice. You do the middle of the night urgent care runs and then to the all night pharmacy to gets meds when kids are sick.
If you are saying the Prius isn't a family car, that's one thing, but I don't know very many parents that get by in life without having to make short trips a good part of the time.
Nice thing you'll find is that you end up with a lot more free time!
I wish DC would make Rock Creek Park and Clara Barton Parkway both HOV only. Maybe allow PZEV vehicles as well (the state of VA already does this).
More real incentives like these would get more people to conserve.
-juice
> having to make short trips a good part of the time.
And I know just as many parents that are forced to run a bunch of errands all at once. What is your point?
My point is to reduce, not eliminate. And if you absolutely positively can't, just be thankful you have such a reliable car to support you lifestyle.
JOHN
A bunch of errands all at once? Yes, but you still need to go to a bunch of places that may take short trips to get to, even if you do them consecutively.
I car pool, but have yet to see a Prius drive by with a passenger (granted I don't see very many of them around here).
> that may take short trips to get to
A short trip is one where the engine is COLD even at the conclusion of the drive.
Since the engine doesn't cool off right away and the fluid in the thermos remains HOT for several hours, you can shut off the car in between and it will still count as a single trip.
JOHN
JOHN
1) I don't ever see any difference in the mpg, based on doing anything I'm doing differently so where would someone get feedback from the car that helps them to drive better?
2) I tried to use the manual to learn better how to operate the car but found it (in all aspects) almost impossible to follow/read. It's written by someone for whom English is not a first language and is filled with "caution" and other warnings. Has anyone had any luck in getting a manual written in American English?
I agree with the comment about the owner's manual. You'd think Toyota could have "splurged" on hiring a competent native English speaker to edit the book.
As for the lousy gas mileage, did you read the part in the manual on how to disengage the parking brake?
I've had my Prius (Driftwood #9) since Feb 6 and now have 2,356 mi on it. I've taken a some long trips in addition to local driving. My last fillup was at 2168 mi with 48.56 total gals overall. This averages 44.64 mpg. I live in the SF Bay Area where temps are very mild by some standards and I know my car is still breaking in. I can't complain at all about the mileage. I sold my '84 Corvette which got 15 city (around 10 with an energetic right foot) and 21 highway...at best. I know John1701a is the gas mileage guru and his advice has helped me greatly. Sometimes I can't squeeze much gas in during fillups whereas in other times I can fit in 8-9 gals. I don't think it's necessary to push my luck and run on fumes. The car doesn't look that easy to push... I use reasonable judgement, when I get down to 1 bar I go gas hunting. Like John said the fuel gauge is not linear so take it with a grain of salt. If I feel like putting gas in, I do. I'm very excited to have the Prius, it's a real treat to get behind the wheel every day. How ironic is it that just after I sold the Vette, gas jumps to $2.25 and I get a Prius that'll get 45 mpg?
Today I pulled up to stop light next to an H2 (Hummer). I had to chuckle at his 9 mpg and my 45.
Does using the "B" position hurt mpg very much? It sure saves brakes....I have 3/4 mi downhill right away and the mpg bar skyrockets!! Also is there any use for it UPHILL? As I approach the 3K odo miles, I'm considering synthetic oil. Should I change it myself or get it done by someone for warranty documentation? What is a good brand of syn oil?
Thanks
Rich
Anyways, I can't always walk to work because I often go elsewhere during the day.
You wonder though if the advantage of hybrids is city driving, what is the typical excursion in the city? Sure you might make several stops but you might be driving a mile or two, stopping for 30 minutes or so, then going another couple of miles, stopping off somewhere else for awhile and so on.
That's 4.9 MPG higher than the 3-year average for my Classic Prius.
So based on this obvious trend of improved MPG, the 2004 should easily climb into the low 50's once the warmer weather finally arrives.
JOHN
No, but it does put unnecessary wear on the engine. Brakes are much less expensive to replace. It's best to use "B" sparingly.
> I'm considering synthetic oil. Should I change it myself or
> get it done by someone for warranty documentation?
No one really knows about the warranty documentation question. But we do know that damage potential exists from overfilling, and an easy way to prevent that is just doing it yourself.
> What is a good brand of syn oil?
I used Castrol Syntec in the past. It worked great. Now I'm using Mobil 1. It works great too.
JOHN
Since the Prius engine may run at reduced time intervals...oil breakdown may be much much less and oil change intervals could be greatly increased??? It would be neat for someone to perform an oil analysis using the Prius HSD system to determine if lubrication breakdown is greatly reduced...just think if Toyota could market 15,000 to 20,000 mile oil change intervals...talk about great for the environment and reducing oil dependency!!!
Amsoil is formulated for 25,000 mile drain interval....
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles123.htm
Something to think about...again it would be nice if Toyota would back with warranty, especially if you use an approved synthetic lube. Just think if they could market a oil change when you change your plugs!
Mike
I'm on my third GM car with an oil life monitor and I've never had it dip below 10% before 8k miles. Once I even went a little over 11k ('03 Chevy Tahoe). When I took it into the dealer I had him take a look at the oil before it was drained and he said it looked spent but definitely not overly so.
One of the things we can do to conserve is to not drain our oil before it needs it. Think of all of that semi-used oil that we have to dispose of and the crude that it takes to keep changing our oil so often.
On the other hand, I always do the first two oil changes at 1k and 3k because of the debris from the engine when it is new.
Can you give more info on the oil life monitor?
How does it do what it does?
Easy to use?
"One of the things we can do to conserve is to not drain our oil before it needs it. Think of all of that semi-used oil that we have to dispose of and the crude that it takes to keep changing our oil so often."
Agreed.
Thanks.
- ss4
5 stars for frontal for driver 4 stars for passenger as well as side impact. These results will be published very soon on the government's website.
It seems to me that might have a huge adverse affect on MPG.
It's quite useful and my mechanic (Chevy guy who I know and trust) says that it is very accurate.
The Oil Life Monitor is in the DIC screen. You just scroll through the options until it comes up and it tells you what percentage of life your current oil has (according to its calculations). The technician (or you) do have to reset it though whenever you change the oil but that is a very easy process also.
> rely on engine compression braking instead of regenerative
> charging via "virtual" engine braking?
Yes.
> It seems to me that might have a huge adverse affect on MPG.
I've only encountered a handful of owners that were complaining about low MPG where it turned out they were using "B" all the time. And unfortuntely, that wasn't the only contributing factor. So there was no way to determine how much of an impact that had on MPG.
Someone did measure the regen difference though. And if memory serves, I believe it caused a 15% reduction.
JOHN
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/SList2.cfm?vehyear=2004&vehmake- =Toyota&vehmodel=Prius
Extreme, but:
40MPG + 15% = 46MPG
Anybody have this happen. I know if you put the gas in very slow, it lets the bladder conform to shave of the tank. This was about 3pm and temp was about 60 degrees.
I have had a bad pump before.
All I did was drive 20 feet to the next pump and finished filling the tank, without any trouble. That provided immediate proof that there really wasn't anything wrong with the car itself.
So if you ever encounter that situation again, just try that.
JOHN
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2971.html
They were without the optional side bags and curtains. They are pretty good but are bettered by several compacts, including the Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Ion, Matrix/Vibe, and Golf/Jetta--some of which were tested with SABs. I expect those would have improved the Prius' side crash scores, but no way to tell how much.
I have heard stories (here?) of folks driving around the block and then putting a lot more fuel in the car.
The ICE is fuel injected. When you turn the key on the fuel pump starts, even if teh ICE doesn't, and the fuel pressure relief valve will bleed some of the fuel flow back into the top of the tank.
Or the slight sloshing may have alleviated the "vapor lock". In all modern cars the end of the filler neck is below the tanks's top fuel fill level.
Also, with everyone that seems to be having this problem it is more likely something about the car, not the pumps.