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Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Saw one this morning pulling into our garage at work, it was eerily silent. Very cool.

    Owner said she goes down the two ramps using the regenerative brakes to charge the battery. The engine's not even running for the last couple of minutes of her commute.

    Neat.

    -juice
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I guess that means she never has to go back up.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I should have asked her if the engine kicks in while driving up the ramps, or if battery power is enough.

    For those of you that park in garages, can the battery alone pull you up a ramp? How many levels before the engine kicks in?

    Just curious.

    -juice
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    But it's kind of like having a gas pump right there that automatically dispenses free gas as you are driving down the ramps. You have to burn some of the gas as you're driving up the ramps on your way out, but at least you didn't have to pay for the gas.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "What goes up, must come down."
  • prius4meusprius4meus Member Posts: 22
    "For those of you that park in garages, can the battery alone pull you up a ramp? How many levels before the engine kicks in?"

    I use an above ground garage so I ascend at the end of my morning commute when the car is warmed up. I go up 3 ramps and the ICE rarely engages (generally only if the heat is on). In fact, I worry a bit about the unsuspecting pedestrian who can't hear me coming! Other people's experiences may vary depending on the slope and speed/acceleration.

    Ironically, my ICE is on much more frequently for the descent, when the car is warming up after spending 12 hours in the garage.
  • quasar4quasar4 Member Posts: 110
    In fact, I worry a bit about the unsuspecting pedestrian who can't hear me coming!

    Got a chuckle the other day with just such an incident. A pedestrian was crossing a quiet residential street ahead of me, so in anticipation, I let up on the gas to let him safely pass, causing the car to go into stealth mode. By the time I came up on him, he had passed over the center line and was about midway through the opposite lane when he nonchalantly looked over his shoulder and saw me. His reaction was priceless. His head bobbed like a gopher trying to avoid a swooping hawk, while he spun around practically tripping over his feet performing a backwards shuffle. All of this while sporting a "Holy #@%*!! Where did you come from??!" expression on his face. The only sound coming from my Prius was the sound of laughter as I glided by....hahaha.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe Toyota could install in the Prius (and their other upcoming hybrids) the same electronic voice used in parking ramps to warn pedestrians: "Car approaching! Car approaching!" It could be driver-activated with a button on the steering wheel, or in keeping with the Prius' advanced technology, it could have a sonar system that would detect pedestrians (with AI to discern pedestrians from other objects) and automatically sound the alarm.

    Or there's always the horn.
  • tjdepere2004tjdepere2004 Member Posts: 40
    Seeking information from products' users:
    I understand the attraction of saving monies by not purchaing as much gasoline.
    how long will the electrical system remain active b/4 needing to be replaced?
    What is the cost to replace the orginal batteries?
    Thanks
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    I understand that the 2005 model is going to have an exterior speaker simulating engine sounds IF the car is in stealth. Damn lawyers!! Glad I got a 2004.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Think blind person.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It is illegal for a blind person to get a driver's license. It is also illegal for a driver to hit a pedestrian. "My car is so quiet he/she couldn't hear it and jump out of the way in time!" is not an excuse.

    I suppose cars that drive in busy, noisy cities (think New York) need to have amplified engine noises poured through a speaker too, so that pedestrians can hear the car engine over the din of jackhammers, sirens, other traffic etc. While were at it, better put speakers on all the electric vehicles out there--delivery vans, suburban runabouts, even golf carts. They're in stealth mode all the time.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Has anyone either leased or asked the dealer about leasing?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hilarious, they could even give it a V8 sound track. Vroom.

    -juice
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    I was thinking more in line with the Hummer.

    Seen on license plate this morning on Wayne's Insight.

    SUVS SUCK

    My Hybrid SIPS

    Happy holidays to all!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I was thinking of a blind person in a non-traffic light crosswalk.

    NOT driving.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I know that. My point is that drivers must take responsibility for avoiding pedestrians, who may be blind, deaf, young, distracted, or just have no common sense. Putting a loudspeaker on a car like the Prius because it might be quiet in operation isn't the answer.
  • katkat Member Posts: 1
    I live in Connecticut and the 3 Toyota dealers I talked to are not even taking names or orders they said up to a 2 year wait? I'm determined I get one I may have to go to Mass. Wish me luck
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Has anyone either leased or asked the dealer about leasing?
  • whyattwhyatt Member Posts: 3
    My wife order her Prius in early November and we just picked it up yesterday "Good Friday". The dealer has a 15 month wait now and won't take any orders for 2004's. It's crazy!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I did a search on autotrader.com for new 2004 Priuses within 25 miles and got 5 hits, from two dealers. I expanded the search to 300 miles and got 21 hits. All these cars had VIN numbers, and most stated 10 miles (meaning non-demo) and had prices listed. So it appears new Priuses are available for immediate delivery, if you aren't too picky about color/package and may be willing to drive a few miles.
  • mzedmzed Member Posts: 2
    Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents. I purchased a package #3 Prius first week of 11/03. Now has just over 15,000 miles. I'm in Florida-- driving mostly to and from work-- relatively flat at speeds in excess of 60 MPH. According to the MPG indicator, now that temps are averaging between 65 to 75 degrees, I'm getting consistently over 51MPG. I'm happy with that, with most stations over $1.75/gallon here. A question for the group-- does anybody know of a bike rack or carrier that is available for the 04 Prius? (sorry if this is a repeat question- I tried a search). It would seem that since the Prius is being promoted as a poster car for environmental responsibility, that Toyota would make a bike rack or at least have a hitch mount so that one could be attached-- any thoughts? Thanks.
  • davidnj1davidnj1 Member Posts: 13
    My Prius has smart start. This morning I turned my car off as usual when I got to work by pressing the two buttons and watched the display fade. I got out of the car and pressed the button on the door to lock it and heard the one beep. I fumbled with my keys to get ready to enter the building and heard 2 beeps as if the car was unlocking. Ignored the beeps as we have a generally safe parking lot and I can see the car from my window. A half hour later, people came into my office asking me if I knew my car was running. And sure enough, it had turned itself back on and was sitting there, unlocked, waiting for someone to drive it off. How could this have happened?

    I visited a dealer to day and the car in the lot was also running. Since the motor is off, it is hard to tell. Pressing the power button turns it off. If the engine was running maybe the door button didn't really lock it.

    This could be a real problem in parking lots where the attendants don't know Prius nuances.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I don't think there was any confusion over the standard mirror and the optional one. The confusion was that some places list the auto dimming mirror/home link as included in the Package #9 and some places list it as a seperate item. I know in the searches I've done online in the Atlanta area, where you can pull up the Monroney sticker (or a facsimile of it) all of the package #9s have had an extra cost auto dimming mirror listed while not having it listed in the package 9 contents. The brochure and many websites, including Toyota, list the Package #9 as having it included in the contents of the package.

    Of course Toyota is not on par with it's website. If you try to put the Leather Package (with or w/o airbags) onto a vehicle it gives you an error saying "you must choose packages #3, 4, 7 & 9" - which you cannot do.
  • jeep2jettajeep2jetta Member Posts: 53
    ...go to this site for hitch info...

    http://www.coastaletech.com/04hitch.htm
  • mzedmzed Member Posts: 2
    Many thanks!
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11286546&BRD=517&am- p;PAG=461&dept_id=473182&rfi=6
  • dkahldkahl Member Posts: 8
    Hello all. A comment given to me about buying a Prius on which I was hoping to get some feedback. It came from a Toyota salesman I met at a dinner party while out of town (thus he knew I was NOT going to buy a car from him). When asked his opinion of the car, his main concern was that the repair costs would be very high in the future, when the car is out of warranty because of the new technologies being used. Obviously, there are no after-market parts available anywhere besides the dealer, and once out of warranty, no one knows what the price of the electrical units are going to be. His actual quote: "I wouldn't want to touch one out of warranty." This same thought was shared on a national talk radio show, especially concerning the braking system.

    I am wanting some thoughts on this because I put many miles on my car, commuting 50 miles a day round trip, and will probably be well over 100K miles within a few years of ownership. Being a Toyota, I would hope to be set for a while, but can anyone really guess about the reliability of the new technologies?
  • dkahldkahl Member Posts: 8
    (I put this post on the Buying Experience section, but I thought I'd get more response here...my apologies if this offends!)

    Hello all. A comment given to me about buying a Prius on which I was hoping to get some feedback. It came from a Toyota salesman I met at a dinner party while out of town (thus he knew I was NOT going to buy a car from him). When asked his opinion of the car, his main concern was that the repair costs would be very high in the future, when the car is out of warranty because of the new technologies being used. Obviously, there are no after-market parts available anywhere besides the dealer, and once out of warranty, no one knows what the price of the electrical units are going to be. His actual quote: "I wouldn't want to touch one out of warranty." This same thought was shared on a national talk radio show, especially concerning the braking system.

    I am wanting some thoughts on this because I put many miles on my car, commuting 50 miles a day round trip, and will probably be well over 100K miles within a few years of ownership. Being a Toyota, I would hope to be set for a while, but can anyone really guess about the reliability of the new technologies?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I have a 1978 Porsche in which the only electronics is the CD ignition. All the new cars are so totally dependent on various ECUs and their firmware that I can't say I see any real difference in the Prius vs, say, than the new 911/996 (or LS430). We're now all beholden to the dealer's service department when/if the car fails.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    All cars have tons of electronics in them these days. How many people at these dealerships do you know that can diagnose/repair ANY electrical issue quickly? Toyota is training their techs on this special vehicle so, chances are, they will be MORE knowledgable and better equipped to repair the Prius than most other new cars.

    It's not like the Prius is a NEW vehicle for Toyota. It's been around 4 model years now and even more in Japan. There are many, many with high mileage and they have PROVEN to be very reliable vehicles.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Check out the April issue of Consumer Reports, which comments specifically on the reliability record of hybrids including the Prius. The record is excellent. The '04 Prius is a redesign, but the HSD technology is similar to what was used in the previous generation, with some improvements. So this is not brand-new technology. It's been proven in the real world by tens of thousands of drivers for years.

    One thing to remember also is that in order to qualify for the AT-PZEV rating, a car has to pass a 150,000 mile durability test. So even though the warranty goes to 150,000 miles only in some states like CA that recognize the PZEV rating, the durability of key components like the HSD and battery have been tested beyond the normal 100k warranty. The electric motor is designed to be maintenance free. The CVT is much less complex than an ordinary automatic transmission. The battery replacement costs will come down steadily as more hybrids come on line; Toyota alone plans to sell 300,000 by 2006. As for brakes, I read Click & Clack's column the other day and they said they have no problems doing maintenance work on the Prius' brakes, so any good brake shop should be able to work on them.
  • ragueroraguero Member Posts: 60
    A good article in the Sacramento Bee about state assembly bill 2628, to allow Prius in the HOV lanes with one occupant (in California).

    http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/8877435p-9804095c.ht- ml
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pass it, baby!

    -juice
  • lucaslucas Member Posts: 9
    Very pleased so far. I guess it will be a month or so until I have to fill-up so I've no idea what the mpg will be.

    Otherwise - Like the car very much. Plenty of get up and go. It will go a whole lot faster than I will drive it. Very careful examination indicates it's well made, mostly out of heavy gauge steel.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Hot Hybrids
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Great Article and the first sentence says it all "Does the idea of getting better fuel economy (and paying less at the pump) without compromising performance appeal to you? "

    An the answer is a big resounding *YES* .

    That is why the current Prius fails so miserably , it compromises performance. As soon as the reasonable Hybrid alternatives appear this fall, Prius sales will fall. Hurry buy your Prius now while you can still pay full MSRP or more.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yep, I agree. The Prius is such a huge failure Toyota salespeople have to spend considerable time working up spreadsheets to try to help all the customers on their ever-growing Prius waiting lists figure out when they can expect to get their cars.

    The details on the performance of the Prius are well-known. The details of the performance of hybrids due out this fall are well-documented. Prius waiting lists now reach well into fall, and in my area into next year. Thus someone can expect to buy one of the new "reasonable" hybrids before they can expect to get a Prius. Yet the Prius waiting lists continue to grow (over 100 at my local dealer and climbing). If the public perceives that the Prius has failed so miserably in performance compared to the new hybrids due out this fall, why is that??
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    * Because people have no patience and are not willing to wait!

    * The uncertainty of the rising gas prices has people scared!

    * The inability to speculate on the future and unknown. What if the other hybrid is priced to high? What if they have a long wait like the Prius? In other words low risk tolerance, they invest their money in the ground or stable fixed CDs.

    * Some people like to be on lists, just to be on lists! It's called Hedging!

    The Prius has some very good attributes: It is green and clean, it gets good mileage, it has good safety: HIDs, VSC, Traction, ABS, side are curtains, It is kind-of midsized and can seat 5, it has utility because it is a hatchback. It is an economy car on steroids!

    ========================

    But,

    Toyota isn't making much money on the Prius. Businesses are in business to make money.

    Toyota is artificially limiting the production and could but won't increase it or only minimally increase it.

    Toyota was somewhat taken by the surprise in the demand and popularity for the Prius. Why? The combination of a super steriod economy car. The bait a switch price trick: well for under $20K ( actually with the $300 increase that is no longer true), but for just a little more you can get this option and for just a little more you can go all the way up to option package #9 and raise the cost to $27K. Wow! too much for an economy car, but wait this is a new class of car and wait it has a low entry cost and wait we are getting all these features.

    ============================

    Now Honda has been feverously working to address the Prius. How would they compete with the Prius? They would address what the Prius lacks or what most of the public perceives it lacks. They would do a detailed comparison, for example if we give up mileage down to the range 30-38 which is Hondas current target and we keep the same perormance as our current Accord ICE V6, do we gain any Prius customers and/or do we capture a whole other set of demographics? Pricing is also an issue Honda will probably surprise people on their pricing, it might not be the fully loaded more expensive model like the HCH is to the Civic line. There might be several models DX, LX, EX with and without leather. There might even be a hatch-back version. It seems that maybe their is a relook at hatchbacks and station wagons as an alternative to SUVs, but still providing space utility.

    And Honda isn't the only one Toyota is attacking the Prius with two of its own cars, and although the demographic picture is a little different, they are not targeting stop-n-go commuters, retirees or green economists. There is going to be some overlap and they are going to hurt their own sales. Remember how the Avalon cut into the ES300 and LS400 market over the last 5-10 years becuase there wasn't enough feature decontentment on the Avalon.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Bottom line: When the Accord Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid Lexus RX hybrid, Escape hybrid become reality, the Prius will suffer. If you don't believe me <BOOK MARK> this message and look back in November or December of this year 2004 and the lists and wait time of the Prius will have significantly diminished and they will no longer be selling at MSRP.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    All of these cars are going to do well on their own; only the Accord can be really considered a competitor to the Prius, and it doesn't match the people and cargo area of the Prius. The Accord in fact is being positioned by Honda as the "hot rod" of the sedan field - the whole thing will be about performance more than anything else. I can see people cross-shopping these two cars, but the rest? Not really...

    That said, I don't think there is any doubt the market for the Prius has to cool down...but I don't see that happening for many months, and not necessarily because of this alleged "competition" - except for the Accord [est $26-27k], most of the rest are in the $35-45k price range. The Escape will certainly be more affordable, but won't carry the aura of reliability that the Prius enjoys.

    Supply will eventually catch up with demand, but I don't think many of the people who are currently lined up for a Prius are going to rush to these alternatives - most are just not the same combination of value and practicality.
  • tempusvntempusvn Member Posts: 119
    "Toyota is artificially limiting the production and could but won't increase it or only minimally increase it."

    Please provide proof of that, or state it as your opinion. Conspiracy theories are all well and good but there has to be at least a tiny bit of factual basis for them.

    It used to be that people were ranting that Toyota had to be losing money on the Prius. Now it's "They aren't making MUCH money".

    Well, I don't know any for-profit enterprise that would turn down profit in hand by not producing something that's in demand, especially if it would cut into your competitors sales.

    If Prii were available, I suspect HCH sales would not be real great right now. There are a LOT of people buying HCHs solely because they can't get Prii, and to think Toyota is somehow happy with that situation doesn't fit the Occams Razor test.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Sure, the Prius market will cool down eventually. Toyota is looking at adding Prius production in the U.S.--that would have a huge impact on supply. But what we all seem to agree on is that the hybrids coming up in the next year or so are not in the same market niche as the Prius. The Escape comes closest, in size, utility, performance, and likely price, and I think there will be some cross-over there because some people prefer an SUV to a sedan. But the Accord, Highlander, and RX400h will all be priced above the Prius--the two SUVs far above. So I don't see the demand for the Prius declining in a big way anytime soon--maybe not until the 2006 Camry hybrid debuts, if its price is anything close to that of the Prius.

    MidCow, don't worry about bookmarks--I have a long memory. ;-) But on "people don't like to wait"--that is the funny thing; people may have a shorter wait going with one of the new hybrids than with the Prius! And I guess you must be in favor of the $300 price increase on the Prius, and the pricey options packages, because you seem concerned that Toyota isn't making enough money on the Prius. The price increase will help there, won't it?
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    The Accord has similar specs to the Prius, except that according CR measurements, the Accord trunk holds "3 + 3" for luggage, vs "3+1" for the Prius. The difference is is the layout of the trunk - the Accord has more square footage on the floor, while the Prius has more cubic footage overall. If they hadn't gone hatchback with the Prius, the car wouldn't be a mid size. The Accord is a mid size with a normal trunk. Just another case of the specs being a bit misleading. Put the two cars together and you see they belong to different classes, and I think will appeal to somewhat different audiences.

    Trunk space remains the reason I personally could not choose the Prius as a primary car. Secondary car, yeah, it is big enough.

    Also, pricing on the Accord has not been released. We don't know if honda will allow the IMA engine on all trim lines or just a special trim line. It is quite possible the middle of the range will overlap with the Prius.

    Remember the current Accord model starts below 16K... and maxes out just above 26K. Add 3K for an IMA and you get an approximate price, I suppose.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What has been released on the Accord hybrid is that it's a V6. A V6 with some special technology that shuts down half the cylinders at cruise. Honda doesn't sell a V6 in any trim line below LX today, with an asking price of $24k. The EX is $27k. Also, Honda has not been able to deliver its hybrid Civic for a price close to that of its ICE Civics. Your estimate of a $3000 premium for the hybrid sounds about right to me. These facts should tell us something about the price of the Accord hybrid--it may overlap a loaded Prius with package 9 and all the dealer-installed options, but an Accord at that price could not have nearly the content of the loaded Prius. That would make for an interesting decision: the greater power and trunk space of the Accord, or the greater fuel economy and more "toys" of the Prius?
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Don't forget that the Accord has traditional styling and Honda reliability. I realize it will be a new powertrain, but the Honda track record is good.

    Also, if the cars are driven in similar fashion, it may be closer in MPG than you think. CD got 44 MPG overall driving the Prius, probably because they didn't follow the Prius "rules" to achieve higher MPG.

    So it is possible (won't know till they are tested) the Accord may reach mid to late 30's in MPG, and still have 270 HP available, while the Prius under similar acceleration conditions achieves mid 40's. If the prices overlap it could get really interesting.
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    ...and MIDCOW wants in bad!! I personally don't see the wait lists getting shorter as they did with the Bug and PT Cruiser. Those cars were fads, but the Prius is certainly a vision into the future. I certainly agree that the methodology used in computing the Prius to a MIDSIZE, is misleading, but the facts speak for themselves. Look at the specs for passenger volume (legroom, hip room etc) and the Prius shines. Regardless, the Prius is here to stay. So.... anti-hybrid folks who interestingly LOVE to frequent HYBRID boards (maybe they're a closet case??), keep joining the conversations. We love it when a plan comes together.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    Trunk space aside, I think the Prius looks like something designed to appeal to people of all age groups. The Accord unfortunately looks like a bloated Buick designed for members of AARP.

    Maybe the next generation Civic hybrid will be a stylish hatchback.
  • kornklankornklan Member Posts: 29
    Just got back from Iceland and saw a 2004 Prius with a lot more in it than Toyota is offering in the US. A height adjustable drivers seat, solid disc brakes in the rear, a backup sensor to tell you when you are too close when backing into a parking place, an EV switch which allows you to drive in electric mode up to 45 kilometers per hour max., rear fog lights to name a few. It seems to me that Toyota could at least offer the height adjustable drivers seat at little or no cost. I asked the Toyota rep. at the NY Auto show and he couldn't answer any of my questions. It will be interesting to see what if any changes there will be in the 2005.
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    Those that are interested in Accord hybrid, you might want to wait for Camry hybrid. See comparison of facts below. You should expect similar.

    usbseawolf2000 "Hybrid Honda Accord 2005" Apr 15, 2004 10:18pm

    Atkinson cycle ICE in HSD has super flat torque(blue) curve. What you don't see in that graph is engine efficiency. Atkinson cycle ICE(1,500-5,000RPM) in HSD is more efficient than Honda's Otto cycle ICE peak(at certain RPM) efficiency.

    usbseawolf2000 "Hybrid Honda Accord 2005" Apr 15, 2004 10:31pm

    A picture of Honda Civic Hybrid and Prius HSD drivetrain. Note that HSD contains 295 lbs-ft torque 50KW electric motor in it as well.

    usbseawolf2000 "Hybrid Honda Accord 2005" Apr 15, 2004 10:42pm

    This graph isn't direct comparison because Prius graph is with speed rather than RPM. Prius has plenty of horsepower(red curve) between 30km/h(17mph) and 90km/h(56mph). No wonder Prius is faster than 4 cylinder Camry in 30-50 mph acceleration test.

    GTG, enjoy your day.

    Dennis

    P.S. Should I cross-post on prius vs. hch vs insight board?
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