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2013 and earlier BMW X5 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • mbbmw2002mbbmw2002 Member Posts: 7
    I am glad nolift911 brought this topic up.

    MSRP: $60,875 (CA tax: 0.0775)
    36 months/10,000 miles
    5,000 Down Drive Off
    Money Factor: 0.000180 (I think this is too high)
    How would one approach negotiating the money
    facotr when dealers claim BMW sets these
    factors. I am thinking my dealership is
    inflating the mf.

    My lease will be 763.87/month including tax

    Good deal? My salesperson didn't say anything about a security deposit, but he did include a $200 Maco training fee or something like that.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    They are killing you here...

    Without a breakdown of the drive-off amount, it is hard to know exactly.. but this is what I see:

    A discount of about $1000 from MSRP..

    Money factor jacked up the maximum .0004 + no security deposit waiver fee of .00015.. (base MF is .00125)

    Acquisition fee marked up to $825 from $625.

    This might not be exactly it.. but, it works out the same.. Not too good.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    MSRP $60,875
    Selling price $58,875 (just making one up, $2K off)
    CAP cost $59,500 (selling price + $625 acq.fee)
    36mo/30K lease
    Residual 61%
    MF .00125
    Payment $742 + tax = $798/mo.including tax.

    Drive-off: 1st payment, security deposit, title/license fees.. Should be under $2000 total.

    So, $3000 less upfront and $34/mo. more on the payment.. About $1875 less over the term of the lease.. If your price was $1000 under MSRP, the payment would go up to $831/mo tax included.

    I think at $2K off MSRP, that still leaves a $3K profit for the dealer, at least.. Like I stated above, I have no idea what the market is for the X5 4.4, but if it is any more expensive than that, I wouldn't be interested. It is also entirely possible that the market is lower than this..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • mbbmw2002mbbmw2002 Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for yout help, kyfdx. 763.87/mo and still bad ey. Do you know how I can figure out BMW's base money factor for everymonth?
  • autophileautophile Member Posts: 14
    Just closed deal this week for 3.0i X5:
    Premium Pkg
    Cold Weather Pkg
    Rear Climate Pkg
    Auto
    Comfort Seats
    Htd SW
    Park Dis.
    Xenon
    List= $51,270
    Selling Price= $48800 ($1875 over invoice)
    I get $1000 back from BMWCCA (I've been a member for several years--this will be my 5th BMW) so net is $875 over invoice.
    This isn't as good as some posts, better than others. Hopefully some of you can do better yet. Good luck
  • ez1703ez1703 Member Posts: 3
    What is the money factor on a 2005 X5 3.0?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    Same as the 4.4

    36 mo/15k mi – 58% Residual Value – Money Factor .00125 Base Rate

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  • ez1703ez1703 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks. Is this deal okay? I am paying $47,905 (MSRP is $51,020) for an X5 3.0 with:
    Auto
    Nav
    Xenon
    Premium
    Cold
    Rear Climate

    I ordered it a month ago and they told me the money factor was .00180 and Residual was 60% on 36/12k. $725 acquistion fee. I am going to go with 36/15k. I live in VA(4% sales). Can you tell me what I should looking in paying for month and how much I should put down? I was thinking 5k. Thank you so much.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    1) They are marking up the money factor

    2) Base acq.fee is $625

    3) You should never make a downpayment on a lease.. Just 1st payment, security, and acquisition fee upfront (or even roll acq.fee into lease).

    $51,020 MSRP
    $47,905 Selling price
    $48,530 CAP cost (selling price + $625 acq.fee)
    3yr/45K lease
    Residual 58%
    MF .00125
    Payment = $624 + tax = $650/mo.incl.tax
    Due at signing = 1st payment, security deposit, title/licensing fees. ($1300 + fees)

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • ez1703ez1703 Member Posts: 3
    Am I going to have a hard time lowering the money factor from .00180? I have a credit score of over 700. How much is the security deposit? Is the selling price ($47,905) a decent price? Sorry about all the questions...First time leasing.

    Thank you.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    1) Yes, you will probably have a problem.. Dealers that mark up money factors are not usually easy to deal with..

    2) Credit score is fine...

    3) Security deposit is the payment rounded up to the next higher $50 increment..

    4) Selling price looks decent.. over $3K off.

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  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    I AM ABOUT TO EMBARK ON MY FIRST LEASE EXPERIENCE IN THE CHICAGO AREA. HORROR STORIES ABOUND. I WILL APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE. DEALER IS LOOKING FOR BASE X5 3.0i PLUS AUTO TRANS OPTION ONLY. 36MONTHS/15K PER YEAR. WILL HE FIND IT? HOW MUCH OVER INVOICE IS FAIR PRICE TO NEGOTIATE? MONEY FACTOR? RESIDUAL% THANKS
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Please do not type in ALL CAPS. It is difficult to read and people think you are yelling at them.
  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    so sorry...forgive me, please. what is the average residual % for this type of sav?
  • bmw4suebmw4sue Member Posts: 2
    Have never leased a car & now seriously considering doing so with an X5 3.0i just because I do not want to pay more than $500 per month, which I've been told I would have to if I purchased instead of leasing.
    If I bought a stripped, automatic for $43K with $7500 down, what should my monthly be? I'm a real neophyte so have no idea what a money factor is. I'm in Hollywood if that helps?
    Thanks v. much!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    58% residual.. Money factor of .00125

    If they can find this vehicle, and they use the base money factor, $800-$1500 over would be a fair price..

    That said, I don't really follow pricing of X5s that closely..

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    First... you should never put a large downpayment on a lease..

    Also, if you put $7500 down on a 36 month lease, you are lowering the payment by about $220/month. Does this amount factor into your $500 payment?

    IOW, if you put $7500 down and your payment is $500/mo,in reality you are paying over $700/mo. for the car.

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  • hydrogen05hydrogen05 Member Posts: 20
    Just wanted some opinions on the following deal:

    2005 X5 3.0i
    MSRP: $49,220
    Selling Price: $47,395 (will try to get $47,000)
    Acquisition: $825 (will try to get $625)
    Residual: 58%
    Money Factor: .00125
    Due at signing: $700 Security + First month (inc tax)
    ** No Cap Reduction **

    Also, would like some opinions about the fact that this dealership (with two locations here) removes the Monroney Sticker from each and every vehicle and places it on the dash. Should I be concerned? I've never seen a dealer do this... It makes it more suspicious when they throw a set of 20" rims on one of their 3.0i X5's (supposedly to try to 'move inventory')...

    Last question -- how many miles does a BMW have upon delivery (no test drives at dealerships)

    Thanks!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    1) You don't say what your payment is?

    2) I'm assuming 3yr/45K lease...

    3) No cap cost reduction, but what is your amount due at signing? Does it include the acq. fee or is that rolled into the payment?

    4) My local dealer seems to have a lot of the window stickers on the dash as well... I'm not sure what that signifies, but I don't worry about it..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • hydrogen05hydrogen05 Member Posts: 20
    kyfdx,

    Yes, 3yr/45k.

    Payment: $642 + 7% Tax ($687)
    ... these are the numbers based on $47,395 selling and $825 acq. fee both of which I want to get lowered.

    No cap cost reduction. Amount due at signing is $700 dep + $687 + tag fees.

    Acq. Fee is rolled into payment.

    Thoughts?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    Okay.. If you can get the price down to $47K even, and only a $625 acq.fee, then that will drop your payment down to approx. $625/mo. + tax..

    As I've noted above, I don't really follow X5 prices all that closely, but getting the base rates on a lease is a very important part of a good deal.. It seems at that price, it would be fair all the way around...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • joe35joe35 Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone tried to lease a 4.8? My dealer tells me that the "special" leasing rates are not available for the 4.8. Anyone have any information or experience with this?
  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    dealer agrees to $800 over invoice
    58% residual but...money factor is .00150 (3.6%)
    i may have to order this sav...may take 30-40 days. can i try to have dealer bring down MF or bring up residual? also, given that this is an ordered car ($1000 deposit required), can i bring down cap cost anywhere else? thanks so much
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    $800 over invoice is dirt cheap..

    Residuals are set by BMWFS and can't be adjusted (I'm assuming 3yr/45K?).

    Are you waiving the security deposit? .00025 is a strange MF bump up for a dealer....

    Make sure the acquisition fee is not marked up ($625 is base, everywhere but NY).

    The only negotiation room I see is the MF, but at only $800 over invoice, they may be solid on that number...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    thanks, kyfdx

    MF is .00150 not .00025

    i'm not sure where and how security deposit comes into play in the scheme of things...please explain

    is the destination charge already factored in the net cap cost? how may the dealer's calculation of monthly payment differ from mine?

    sorry for all the ????
  • bmw4suebmw4sue Member Posts: 2
    Thank you so much for your kind response. I didn't know how to direct my query to you!!

    Truth of the matter is, I really want to purchase. I have never leased before & I would prefer not to, just because I have always been told it costs so much more in the long run. However, if you think otherwise, I would be grateful to hear your input.

    If I decide to buy and if I can manage to put a $10K down pymt on an X5 for approx. $45K, do you think I could get a monthly pymt. of roughly $500 for 48 months? I realize there are other factors to consider, but I do have excellent credit and should be able to get very low APR from my bank. Does that help?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    What I mean is.. the base MF is .00125.. The dealer had to bump up the money factor by .00025 to get the .0015 He is charging you a higher money factor than the lowest rate available..

    The destination charge is part of the MSRP and the invoice.. Just consider it a part of the base price.. It shouldn't enter into your negotiated price (IOW, they shouldn't be adding it on anywhere).

    Just watch out for any garbage fees (document fee, dealer prep, etc..)

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    At 4.5% for 60 months, you can only borrow about $27K, and still keep your payments at $500/mo.
    So, even with $10K down, your payment will be more than $500/mo on an X5...

    For that kind of payment, you should be looking at SUVs in the $32K-$36K range... Honda Pilots and Toyota Highlanders come to mind.... They have very aggressive deals on Pilots right now, and those are great vehicles with good re-sale.

    If that is your budget, an X5 might just be too expensive.. Leasing is just an alternate form of financing... If you can't afford to buy a certain vehicle, I wouldn't suggest leasing it, just to get the payment down..

    If you borrow $35K for 60 months, you are looking at a payment of $650/mo or more...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • gnailuhgnailuh Member Posts: 13
    Hey, I just ordered my 2005 X5 3.0i at $500 over invoice. Including:

    Prem
    Auto
    Cold
    Dimming miorros
    Xenon
    PDC

    Do dealers usually break out the MACO charge when doing $X over invoice? I paid $500 over and the MACO, which $380. So I'm trying to see if I really got $500 over, or $880 over. From what I gather, MACO is separate when you go with invoice.

    Can't wait... 6 more weeks I hope.
  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    with regard to invoice price versus MSRP...is this the same invoice amount described in, say for example, edmunds or kelley...i.e. are dealers using the same invoice prices?

    what is the MACO charge?
  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    was the invoice price you paid for the same price as in edmunds or kelley? did you see the actual invoice sheet?

    did you get gap insurance?
  • rtirrortirro Member Posts: 1
    my wife and i test drove many suv's and finally decided on the X5 3.0i. the salesman at the dealership here in Maine said that they do not discount 3.0s. We want:
    auto
    prem pkg
    cold
    prem stereo
    xenon lights
    MSRP $48...
    lease payment of $748 w/$3500 due at signing
    Should we go to another state, ie Mass or NH since they are close enough. How will that affect the 4yr service? OR can we still nego w/ this dealer and how
  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    to kyfdx and anyone else who can help me...

    still on my first lease experience...

    2005 X5 3.0 only auto transmission as option
    MSRP $43670
    selling price $40810 ($800 over invoice)
    15K miles/year 36 months
    money factor .00125 (3.0%)
    residual 58%
    acquisition fee $625
    sales tax 8.75%

    my calculation on monthly payment is $577 (using leaseguide.com calculator)...is my calculation correct or is his correct?

    dealer's calculation is $627...he says state of illinois (i'm in illinois) and another state calculates lease payment different from the other 48 states so he doubts reliability of leaseguide.com calculator...i do not see why i should not believe him but why is my calculation different from his

    i did my homework...i thought leasing would be fun
    please advise...please
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Assuming the acquisition fee will be paid in cash and will not be part of the capitalized cost, your monthly pre-tax payment should be $512.71. Adding 8.75% tax brings it to $557.57.
    I was able to verify my BMW lease with my dealer to the penny.
    I don't know about Illinois doing it differently, perhaps kyfdx or Car_Man knows, but I sure wouldn't do a deal where I come up with $557 and they come up with $627. Sounds like a $2500 over-charge.
  • gnailuhgnailuh Member Posts: 13
    Yes, invoice the same as Edmunds and Kelly, I checked to makes ure.

    I don't know what is Gap insurance? Can you explain?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    In Illinois, you pay sales tax on the entire price of the car, not on the monthly lease payment... I think if you multiply the tax rate by the selling price, you will come pretty close to the dealer's payment.. Your calculations are right on the money, other than the tax thing..

    Sorry I don't have better news for you.. You have negotiated a great lease deal, otherwise...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Any dealer that says they don't discount X5s...you should run the other way and don't look back. It doesn't matter where you buy your BMW, EVRY BMW service center MUST honor the 4 year/50K warranty & free maintenance. Some dealerships won't give you a priority service appointment or a loaner car if you don't buy from them.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kobayashikobayashi Member Posts: 50
    Gap insurance covers the difference between what the car may be worth if totalled and what is remaining on the lease. BMWFS as well as others include GAP insurance in their leasing programs.
  • mannydommannydom Member Posts: 41
    how is gap insurance incorporated into a lease plan or program? thanks
  • gnailuhgnailuh Member Posts: 13
    Anyone know the current finance rate? My new X5 should be here in about a month... I'm buying, will pay cash, but if finance is good, 2.9% or under, I'll take a 5 year. Any ideas?
  • sirmansirman Member Posts: 10
    What is a good figure to get to for a 3.0 or a 4.4. I would prefer to get the number as a percentage above invoice. Also how much above invoice should I pay for any options. I was thinking about negotiating to 5% above for the basic vehicle, 0% above for destination, title etc, and 1% above for optional extras. How does that sound? Even though this isn't the X3 forum, can someone add the same numbers for an X3 3.0? I am in the Danbury, CT area with multiple dealers in the surrounding area.

    Thanks
  • sirmansirman Member Posts: 10
    If you have the cash available, you are going to be better off investing it than spending it. eloan etc. have rates about 5.5% for 60 months. You will surely do better than that by investing.
  • gnailuhgnailuh Member Posts: 13
    Is it? I do a lot of investing... 5.5% rate, let's say I take the lot and invest it, and let's say I make money on my investment... after taxes, 33% (let's say) of that goes away, for me to make back my 5.5% I'll need to earn about 9%. 9% average return for 5 years is not easy with mutual funds... if you hit a good year, yes. Stocks, sure, but high possible lose too... And then the management overhead and trouble you have to take, especially stocks.

    ING Direct offers 2.8% on savings, if I get 2.9% for a car loan, then I'd do it for sure... but @ 5.5%... I'm not sure. Home equity lines are always good (tax deduction).. but with interest going up, month-to-month adjustables will creep up.
  • gnailuhgnailuh Member Posts: 13
    5%? on a 45K car? That's REALLY high! I just ordered a 05 3.0 for $500 over invoice... always go absolute #, not %. Destination will never be more for retail. $$$ over is for entire car... Find the car with ALL options, at invoice price and negotiate $XXX over that price. The only thing is MACO (maybe I got tricked) is an advertising fee, which all dealers in the bay area will charge if you go X over invoice. So I got $500 + MACO (1% of base invoice) for a pretty loaded X5. With MACO, that's $880 over invoice.
  • sirmansirman Member Posts: 10
    Depends on how you look at it. My assumption is that he has the cash and doesn't need to use a portion of it each month (anyone who can save $50k should be able to afford monthly payments). A 60 month loan at 5.25% results in a total interest payment of $6958 over the 5 years. Earning 5% in a mutual fund over the same time period earns you $13814 (less $4500 tax at 33%) leaving you a little over $2000 better off. The down side is that you have $950 less disposable income each month - but I said, presumably he can cope with it to have saved $50k to begin with.
  • sirmansirman Member Posts: 10
    OK. I must be missing something here. At $500 over invoice the dealer makes a loss. Let's say you car is invoiced at $45k. Is that the true cost that the dealer has BMW to obtain the car? Does he pay BMW when he gets the car or when he sells the car. If the latter, then let's assume the average time a dealer has a car in inventory is 2 months. At a modest 10% cost of capital that equates to an opportunity cost of $750. He then has to pay a lease/rent/interest payment for his property. I'll guess a $10,000 a month payment and a 100 car inventory. That's another $100/car/month. Utilities probably run another $10/month/carand his overhead for non commission staff another $20 or $30/month/car. We are already at about $900 per car and we haven't paid the salesperson yet. He probably gets somewhere in the region of 1.5% per car (on average) which adds another $675. In otherwords the dealer franchise has just lost $1000 in selling you the car. I am sure some of this is made up in the service charges that go hand in hand with "free customer maintenence, but it seems like a bad deal to me.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,181
    I don't really care how much the car cost the dealer, or how much he makes..

    I do know the invoice amount, and even though that might be an artificial number, I know what other people are paying relative to that amount.. and, a lot of them are paying $1000 or less over invoice..

    Is the dealer losing money at that price? Might be... but, I doubt it.

    Should it matter to me? I don't think so.. My job is to buy the car as cheaply as possible..

    But, I do agree with one point... The higher the MSRP, the bigger the profit number will likely be.. While $500 over might be possible on a 325i, it isn't likely on an X5 4.4, or a 545i.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • gnailuhgnailuh Member Posts: 13
    Dealers now have two sales departments... floor sales and internet sales... floor sales are your traditional guys... work from msrp. internet guys are purely on volume. If dealer gets $1000 rebate for each car up to 500 sold per month, but $1500 for each car if they sale over 500 (including the first 500) then that makes more sense. So, go direclty to the internet guys, what's what I did and I got $500 over, traded 4 emails and the order process took 30min.

    Even if the dealer sale at invoice, they still make money. BMW has no dealer hold back, even then, they still pay less than invoice. All depends on how many BMW dealers you have in yoru area. Bay Area, we got 10+, so they willing to deal. I bought my first BMW in LA, they deal even better.
  • gnailuhgnailuh Member Posts: 13
    sirman, you are certainly right about your calculation, however, you missed one important point. the opportunity cost of the monthly payment. sure, $950 might not be a big deal as disposable income, but if I dish out the $50k, then I would save that $950 per month right? And if I take that $950 per month and put it in that account... that's another $6000+ I would get in that 5 years. So... if I do the loan, I would be up $2000 as you said vs. lump sum payment, but I would then lose the $6000+ in interest that I could have earned with my monthly savings.
  • maf1maf1 Member Posts: 17
    Does anyone out there have any experience with BMW’s PrePay, paying the three year lease up front? If so, what do we have to look out for. Does it actually save you any money?

    Thank you,
    MAF1
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