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Audi A3

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Dodge SRT-4, Chevrolet Impala SS, etc. are FWD and over 300 Hp. Biggest problem seems to be torque steer, which can be controlled with equal halfshafts and proper tire choice."

    Don't believe it. Unless by "controlled" you mean slightly minimized, then torque steer is a fact of life with any front driver with any appreciable amount of horse power.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    Hope: AOA brings the S3 to the US. Question: as much as people (including me) have griped about the cost of the 3.2, how many people do you think will pay around $40k for the S3????

    Fantasy: AOA brings the RS3 to the US for even more money. How many will pay even more for that car???

    Best hope: German aftermarket maker Oettinger brings blower kit to US (raises power in the 2.0T to almost 300 ponies). Good luck on making use of that kind of power without quattro.

    Anyone even fantasizing about 500 ponies in the A3 needs to be committed. That is 150 more ponies than the RS3 and would only belong on a race track.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Ever notice what all car mags including Edmunds __and_ the swelling Tuner market ask for? MORE POWER !!! Voila, the mfrs are obliging them!

    We already have a Pontiac Solstice making over 400 HP (via aftermarket house). GM's less muscled version at over 300 Hp is expected to be a sellout. Mercedes muscled AMG cars sell well too, despite their high price.

    How many USA'ed RS3 Quattros would Audi have to sell in order to make a profit (assuming all they need to do is drop the bigger engine and rugged-ized drivetrain into the USA A3 spec body)?

    Supposed Audi sold this RS3 Quattro at $49K but included __all__ the options _and_ tuned it so it blows off a Corvette Z06 or other similar_classed sports car? Would this now most powerful, luxurious compact hatchback on the planet sell? Yes, indeed.
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    I disagree. The car is a hatch and the A3 is already the most expensive hatch on the US market. Americans have traditionally not liked hatches. The RS3 could blow away a Vette and people still wouldn't buy it. A Vette looks the part of a sports car and the A3 doesn't.

    Price this car at $49k and Audi's own S4 becomes a competitor as well as a bunch of other cars like the M3, etc The RS3 would not do well against those cars.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    But would that S4 have the 400 Hp+ motor I suggested for the super RS3 Quattro?
    Anyway, back to reality :shades: ;

    Seriously, cc1, you've a good point; I forgot America dislikes hatches (euros love them!). But maybe tide is turning; most people seeing my Maxx praised its looks, and it's uglier than A3!

    If Audi does bring over the "S's" and they sell well, then that's a victory of HP over hatch. We'll see! ;)
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    The S4 get 340hp from its V-8, the RS4 gets 420hp. The V-8 barely fit into the A4 after a bunch of modifications to make it shorter. I doubt it would ever fit into the A3. Since the "RS" cars are Audi's stupidly fast cars, 350hp is probably close to the max hp you can get out of the 6 cylnder engine.

    The 3.2 will have to be a hit before we see any "S" version of the A3. If there aren't enough people to spring for the 3.2, then the S3 and RS3 will never get off the ground. The S3 is hitting european showrooms in the Fall, so figure on the 2008 model year as the 1st possible year of introduction into the US. But I wouldn't count on it.

    As a hatch, I think there will always be a limit on what Americans will pay for the car. However...make it a little larger and shape it like its Roadjet concept car and it begins to look like a CUV. You could break a few price barriers with a car like that. There are plenty of CUVs in the $30-40k range like the Nissan Murano and more on the way. The current A3 is too small to pull this off.

    I know this is mostly a matter of perception as the lines between a hatch, CUV and small wagon can get very blurry. But Americans will pay more for a CUV than either a small wagon or a hatch. Witness the Infinity FX.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    the Malibu Maxx, if Saab took it over and reworked it with premium interior, an OHV V6 with direct injection, and a more european ride/handling emphasis, could be a viable "Big Brother" to the A3. But it won't happen.

    Sadly, Audi's limited focus on the 3.2's market range may prove limiting for the number of buyers they get. A more touring oriented suspension would sell me, but it's not available, period.

    Is the current Audi A3 3.2 a hit? Are they flying off dealers lots?
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    The 3.2s in my area are definitely not flying off dealer lots. My sense is that they move slowly, but is not a big deal since most dealers have only 1 or 2 at any given time.
    No one stocks a bunch of these cars. The 2.0s are MUCH more plentiful.

    The 3.2 is an S-line in Audi nomenclature which means its intended to be sporty. Hence the choice of suspension. As you go into the "S" and "RS" models, you get more performance that is less suited for daily driving. IOW, the focus becomes more limited as you go to the "S" and "RS". All the more reason not to bring these cars into the US without great demand for the 3.2. Even if these models make it to the US, you can bank on the suspension being as firm as the 3.2 or firmer.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Firmer! Much.

    And lower. RS4s ride 1.2" lower than their S4 counterparts, which already ride 5mm lower (IIRC) than the A4 S-line brethren, which ride 10mm lower than their std A4 siblings. They also track a minimum of 2" wider than a typical A4. I'd expect the RS3 to be set up pretty much the same way.

    Makes me all sweaty just thinking about it.

    We won't see an RS3 here, I don't think. Too bad, says I.
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    I agree that we won't see the RS3.

    Now if I was king err...head of AOA, I'd try to sell HQ on the idea of selling the A3 in the US as follows:

    A3 2.0

    A3 2.0 S-Line

    S3

    However the US, S3 would be a RS3 detuned to 300 hp, sort of halfway between the European S3 and RS3 and would come with no options, just loaded for around $40k (Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?). I'd use my S3 as a showcase for Audi technology and try to get people hooked on the options for purchases of future Audis. This car will never happen, but it would sure stop all complaints that there isn't enough difference between the 2.0 and 3.2 to justify the added cost.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Yes!

    A 2.0T Q S-line chipped up to 255, though. As long as the base 2.0T was a Q, of course.

    Tis a marvelous way with words ye have, ccd1, truly!
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    I'd modify the choice by allowing the AE 3.2 S to have option for a touring suspension (charge for it if necessarry - if charge is reasonable I'd cough up) with a little more suspension travel and different springs/valving. Also use the 2.0 wheels and maybe take a _little_ flash out of the interior. Leave out some of the options (reserve 'em for the S).

    That would allow Audi to plant a version of their 3.2 at those who would otherwise go Subi, Toyota or others near that price range. The 3.2 S would remain for those who don't want to compromise.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    although one site claimed Mazda had a 5 door with AWD, apparently that's not so. So comp's down to Subi and Mitsubi, I guess.
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    The comfy suspension would go in the A3 and S-line A3. By the time you get to my 3.2, it's a firm sports suspension all the way. It's not a compromise car
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Hey, hey, HEY!

    Just you keep your "comfy suspension" off of my S-Line 255hp 2.0TQ! :mad: Sport suspension or die, says I! Leave the cushy junk on the base model and let them option a lux package.

    By the time you get to the 3.2Q, it's the RS's Dynamic Ride Control, a little heavier damping, perhaps some extra bracing and thicker bars for the upgrade. Oh and wider track of course!
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    Wale:

    Not a problem. I want to keep my imaginary customers happy! lol!

    The shame is, properly priced, this would work in the real world.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "Not a problem. I want to keep my imaginary customers happy! lol!"

    Thank you. Where do I sign? I'm sending all my biz to CCD.Audi.com from now on...
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    read __carefully__; Touring suspension __option__, Not "comfy" suspension option, for a __version__ of the A3 Quattro. One that handles well but doesn't kick you in the butt over small bumps.
    That would be an __option__. The customer wanting it pays __extra__. Those who want the 3.2 __as it is__ pay nothing extra.

    Also, Audi __should__ offer the RS suspension option _and_ the S-class engines for those who want true track handling in their 3.2's. How about that, wale?
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Kurt, a "touring suspension" is a marketing gimic from Buick and Lexus and the ilk; a loosely interpreted bit of buzz gleaned from the glory years of Ferrari and Maserati, that means virtually nothing in real world driving terms today. The current sport suspension from Audi is precisely what a real "touring suspension" should be.

    The standard suspension should be just fine for anyone looking for comfort.
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    Kurt:

    Let me back up my customer wale. What makes the 3.2 special is the entire package, including the S-line suspension. You get out of that car and step into just about anything else and the differences are immediate. All these other cars, Volvo V50s, the small Bimmer wagon, RAV4 are fast wagons. The 3.2 is a sports car with added cargo area. There is nothing quite like it near its price range. You want comfy suspensions? Get the CCD 2.0 which Audi actually offers. My S-line gets a firm suspension just as Audi actually does and the S3 gets even firmer, again like Audi actually does.

    The soft suspension is for all those imposters: touring cars posing as sports cars. You want a sports car, then you have to accept what it takes to be a sports car. Great handling requires a firm suspension.

    The CCD line is not being marketed to the masses; my S-line and S3 is for the true afficianados.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I noticed maybe a 10% difference in firmness between the regular already firm suspension, and the EXTRA firm sport suspension.

    I didn't think it was night and day. But I also was able to tell the difference in a short test drive.

    P.S. I liked the sport over speed bumps because you only bounce once, and its over.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    I remember years ago some Euro manufacturers (and today, Chrysler) using the phrase "touring suspension", meaning a design lying between a hard race suspension suited for smooth tracks and roads, and the mush buckets that absorb anything thrown at them but are leathargic handlers.

    The A3 looked and felt nice. The catch is no AWD in anything but a near "RaceCar_w/Leather". If it works for you, cool - Audi's ready for you! Roads I deal with that the A3 can barely deal with would eat the AWD'er alive.

    Incidently, check out Consumers Guide ratings of the A3 and some of the other hatches in its class. The results may surprise you.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    That's what's really nice about German, and some Japanese suspensions. You nail a bump, big or small, and the car simply absorbs it ONE TIME, and is done.
    Not so with many Detroit cars, which keep on quivering afterwards. One reason why I am retiring my Maxx next year.

    But as for a suspension that KICKS you when going over a bump, even a tiny road separator, add that up over an 800 mile trip and the car's no fun whatever.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Circular conversation, and no longer worth the time. Kurt, you're already in the perfect car for you.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    you have your driving style and your roads, wale, I have mine. ;)

    Do you live in Canada (my apoligies if I am wrong)? My work and life in Canada and Australia showed much more open space and better road maintanance. Enjoy and cherish it.

    If in '07 Audi wants a bigger market for A3's AWD than the tiny S-niche they chose, they'll find my wallet ready.

    And If I had the perfect car for me, I would not have asked questions here. later.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    No Kurt, I'm about 360 miles north of you, on the same California roads you drive, maintained in precisely the same way; we've done this before. I swear, the way you talk about possible suspension/wheel damage and butt busting, you'd think you were in Chicago.

    Why not just focus on a 2.0T FWD, if the standard suspension is your personal e-ticket? I can't think of a single reason that anyone who doesn't require the road-glue of the S-Line suspension would require the Quattro in the LA area. Based on driving styles, the Quattro will never come into play. The advantage of Quattro in simple rain conditions is near non-existent, and there ain't much snow down thattaway. Off-roading, perhaps?

    Unless moderate snow conditions are a factor, I can't see any advantage to the Quattro for someone who isn't actively hoofing it for recreation.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    You know, further reflection here Kurt: are you looking at the Caliber? I really think that's a viable alternative for you. It will undoubtedly be better screwed together than the Maxx, and I'd wager in upper trims, would seriously out-handle the Chevy as well. There's enough euro-influence in there to give it a leg up over other domestic offerings, and I'll say it with conviction that all my Mopar experiences from '95 to present have been more or less exemplary.

    Worth a look I think.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Required Drives up to Oregon via 4 nasty passes proved my FWD's could barely got through a couple of times, and planning to leave S. Calif soon drive the interest in AWD but in a small form factor like A3 or Caliber (good suggestion - Caliber looks very interesting).

    I'm not in love with Maxx but were reasons for it that won't apply next time.

    Meanwhile, According to AudiWorld, their forums have a thread going that Audi's '06 allocations are fullfiled, and that no more will be shipped to dealers.

    Is this true?
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    How does Audi's 2.0 T traction control work? Do they actually brake the spinning wheel? Or cut engine power? Or both? I found little info at their site.

    also my apologies: canadian flag has mapleleaf. :blush:
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    My 2.0T DSG is not a "cushy' suspension in the least- in fact I find it to be more firm than my S4 Cabriolet. You can feel all bumps, but I don't mind. The A3 is an amazing package, and because it's my secondary car, I'll be giving it to my son in four years. He's already in love with it!

    The 3.2 quattro is a significant price difference, but it also comes standard with:

    55 more horses

    Leather interior

    quattro AWD

    S-Line

    More accessories

    Again, since the A3 2.0T is my secondary car, I didn't need an extravagant little hatch like the 3.2, just a nice, sporty small car to get me through winter in Chicago!
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Do you know how much $$$ this is? Sounds fantabulous!

    ;)
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    thanks for info! What is your primary car?

    And if I hear of more "tuner" stuff for the A3, I'll pass it along.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    My primary car is the best I've ever had- S4 Cabriolet.

    It's in this beautiful "Sprint Blue" color, so when I drive it I get admiring looks, thumbs-up, smiles, and all three from fellow Audi drivers.

    Also, it's not bad having a beautifully-crafted interior and a creamy 344hp V8 at your disposal.

    Here's what it looks like, colors matching:
    http://www.autosieger.de/Autokatalog438.html

    ;)
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Very nice! One of the few excellent S.California class cars.

    Per another thread, sounds like '07 Audi's taking the A3 further down the sports path. The 2.0's to have an S-version combining sport and premium packages. Wouldn't be surprised if the 3.2 S gets a more powerful engine.
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    I'd like to see the 3.2 get better gas mileage (probably thru FSI), but I doubt the engine will get more powerful. The problem is that the S3 makes 272hp and Audi can't have their S-line 3.2 with more power than the S3. If the US does see a more powerful 3.2, my guess is we won't see the S3.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    would be nice enhancement.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    If the 3.2 litre engine stays the same, and we do see an S3, I think there are two formidable engines:

    2.0T twin-turbo, de-tuned from upcoming TT RS

    3.6 litre V6 from Passat/Q7. Although it's just an evolution of the 3.2, it can make 280hp-320hp. We will be seeing the 3.6 in more new VW AG models, the 3.2 is basically a bridge from the 3.0 to the 3.6.

    ;)
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    I've heard the 3.6 won't fit into the existing platform, but would for the next revision of the A3.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    I finally saw a commercial for an A3…finally, first one. Turned out to be a Castrol commercial…oh well, maybe Audi is trying to sell it on word of mouth.
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    The A3 has been advertised on TV in my area (DC) on the basis of its good crash rating. Find it curious that Audi is marketing the A3 like a Volvo. Audi has 3 cars which got a good rating: A3, A4 and A6.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    There is something perplexing me about when the new A3 is coming out.

    It's due for a redesign in Europe in about two to three years, but I'm not sure if America will get the redesign later, because we got the current one right in the middle of its life cycle.

    :-/
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Oy, more upsizing? :sick:

    Not a trend I care for frankly.

    Two sightings yesterday of "custom" color A3s: Dakar and Murano. Both nice, neither worth a premium, IMO. Based on the Murano's look, I'd say this car would look very sharp in a no-mica forest green. Very. [sigh] Both were 2.0T; I have yet to see a 3.2 on the road, and I'm in a target-rich environment.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    VW said it wanted to change Golf in '08 because current models costs too much to build compared to competition.
    Will Audi use it :confuse:

    One benefit of redesign could be larger engine bay, to accomidate newer V6 engines for upscale Golf/Jettas.
  • ccd1ccd1 Member Posts: 140
    There has been a lot of discussion of the pricing of the A3 in general. Part of the problem is that the A3 and the 3.2 can potentially fall into a number of car categories (hatch, wagon and CUV).

    While there is plenty of room for disagreement, I think the car that comes closest to the 3.2 is the Infiniti FX35. If you compare the 2, one could make the argument that the Infiniti is a bigger version of the 3.2. Viewed this way, the 3.2 looks to be appropriately priced.

    My only reservation is that a loaded RAV4 Sport AWD with the 6 cylinder engine is close to $10k less than a comparably priced 3.2. And I'm not convinced either of these cars is better than the RAV4 to the tune of $10k, at least for me.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Assuming that I end up with an A3, I'm thinking that I might autocross it on weekends, just for fun. I cannot imagine even a marginally sane person such as myself combining the words "autocross" and "Rav4" in the same sentence. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Maybe Edmunds or someone will compare a Toyota RAVE4 AWD TRD (when/if one gets built) to the A3 3.2 S-line. The Toyota won't have Audi Luxury but may do very well on the track.

    Will be interesting to see how Audi prices the '07 3.2 S, given they are rolling in the option packages.

    Would be interesting to know how many 3.2 S's will be racing or auto-crossing.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "The Toyota won't have Audi Luxury but may do very well on the track."

    That's a joke right? Geez, the A3 2.0T should mop the floor with a Rav4, and the A3 3.2 is in another performance class entirely.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,760
    The new May issue of C&D arrived today... They tested an A3 3.2Q S-line.. MSRP = $40K+

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  • tidalwavetidalwave Member Posts: 25
    Yes, I received my new Car and Driver issue also. They describe the driving experience in the 3.2Q as "top notch" but also say they would save $9000 and just buy a 2.0T. It looks like they think the extra weight (almost 500 pounds) had too great of an effect on the performance of the 3.2 versus the 2.0. Indeed, the performance gains as measured by acceleration times don't seem to be what one might expect from the bigger motor. They claim the 3.2 has lost "the light on its feet" feeling that they felt in the 2.0.

    I guess this stuff is all subjective and it is up to each person to make the price versus performance trade-off judgements.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I too am in a wealthy town- probably one of the richest suburbs of Chicago. It's odd; in all ten of the suburbs, I have yet to see a 3.2. There were one or two 3.2's on the Audi lot two months ago, when I went there with my son on Thursday, they were gone. I have no idea who buys them.

    The 2.0T's, on the other hand, are selling surprisingly well. I saw four the other day just on the highway.

    Range Rover Sport or E350 4Matic?

    :confuse:
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