Selecting and Buying My First Car

varunsinha · March 2007

I found a 2000 Civic with 73000 miles on it. I test drove it today. I just wanted some advice on what you guys thought.

Here is a link to the carfax report-
http://www.carfax.com/viewEmailReport.do?a=9dlB6p0nl9UMWcGpT05Nl2f%2BPetkWXPiMy2- szk3gjWLX88srkHtli9bDgDaCTSi3

The guy said that he got the timing belt and brake pads replaced, but he has the receipts at his parents house, so can't get them.

I test drove it (DISCLAIMER: Very inexperienced driver). It seemed fine, just a little "stiff" I guess is the best word to describe it. I don't know if that means anything to anyone :-) I took it on the highway, up to about 70 and it seemed to run fine - no knocking or rattling. However, there were a few problems -
- The car seemed to get slightly (almost imperceptablely) wobbly when I braked. He told me about that before I test drove it; he said the mechanic said the rotors needed to be aligned (or something like that).
- I swerved from side to side while driving slowly (on the advice of a friend) and whenever I reached the extreme of a swerve, there was a soft "click", like the sound of the turn indicator.

Other than that it seemed OK. I revved the engine when idle, and it seemed to rev smoothly. The tires didn't seem too worn.

He agreed to take it to a mechanic with me, and even said he'd pay for it.

What do you guys think? Anything else I should ask him?

There is this service here in Austin, TX called Auto P.I. I was wondering if they would be better than a mechanic. Any thoughts? (http://www.lemonbusters.org/)

Thanks so much for your time!

shr30 · March 2007

Guys, bought the acura, great drive and am totally floored.
Metro, i do have a garaged parking and alarm too. I dont think it has Lo-Jack.

cccompson · March 2007

The carfax is just ok. It shows it to be a local car but there's no service history showing. Did the owner buy out his own lease?

I would want to see the timing belt receipt. Either the parents could mail it to him or, if the service was done at a Honda store, they should be able to pull up the history. Honda brake rotors warp - no big deal if they can be turned but you're into some money if they have to be replaced. Hard to say what the "click" you heard might be - point it out to the mechanic when you have it looked at. It's fine if he wants to pay for the inspection as long as you pick the place.

ateixeira · March 2007

The brake rotors are probably warped. You could turn them, but with 73k miles already on them, a 7 years of abuse, I'd probably budget to replace them. They are the most important safety item on the car.

-juice

gsemike · March 2007

The clicking could probably be the beginning of the CV joint going. If it's truly only a faint click, it's just at the beginning and won't need attention for a long time.

I used to have a 2000 Civic. It was a good car... absolutely trouble free for 34k.

Karen_S · March 2007

A reporter with a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who currently are or just recently purchased a new vehicle and factored or will factor in where the car was made (i.e. made in the USA). Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Friday, March 16, 2007 with your daytime contact info.

ateixeira · March 2007

34k miles isn't a whole lot nowadays. I would expect any new Kia to have a good chance at that.

-juice

gsemike · March 2007

34k isn't a long time but that was my experience. It didn't even need brakes pads in that time.

debellocivili · March 2007

Out The Door. I got that. But which door? My door or the dearler's?
Scenario: if I send a fax or email to a dealer saying I want X-car with option z for $15K O.T.D., what does the dealer understand?

It would be reasonable to assume that if the dealer says "yes, I have that car and I will offer it to you at that price, come on down," I could make out a check for $15K, bring it down to the dealer, hand it to him and he would be happy to have me sign the dotted line and give me the keys and show me the door. Reason, however, has it limits.

My gut tells me O.T.D. doesn't really mean I'm leaving the dealer - rather it is the starting point for the negotiation of addition expenses. I'm afraid that when I get down to the dealer and present him the check for $15K, he is going to say, "Wait a second, you forgot the Destination charge of $600, the Toyota advertising charge, the documentation charge, etc.....you owe me $1000."

Now, I imagine there are some corrupt salesmen who will say whatever. I'm not talking about them. I'm asking if I can expect O.T.D. to mean something to the average normal salesmen and, if so, what is that something?

qbrozen · March 2007

exactly right.

never negotiate "OTD" without defining with the salesperson what that means.

If you want to fax or email such an offer, I strongly suggest writing out something like, "including all dealer fees, destination charges, tax, title, license, or any other charges required for me to drive away with this car TODAY."

bobst · March 2007

In 1997, we bought a Honda Accord over the phone for $17400 OTD.

We went there, took the car for a test drive, gave them a check for $17400, and drove the new car home.

They understood perfectly what OTD meant. Other dealers may not.

ateixeira · March 2007

I would expect the same, but it would be wise to make that very clear. Tell them if there are any surprises, you will walk. It's not about the $100 or whatever they try to tack on, it's the principle of honoring the deal they promised you.

To me OTD includes every single charge, including tax and tags. Any thing else and I would walk, period.

qbrozen · March 2007

One post that I found interesting not too long ago ... can't remember what discussion it was in ... was someone who got an OTD price for an out-of-state car. He then proceeded to find out it didn't include tax and became aggravated with the salesperson. As I pointed out, what he got was technicaly an OTD price. The fact that it is an out-of-state car means the buyer has to go and pay his own taxes in his own state. But to actually get OTD of that dealership in the other state with that car, he didn't have to pay taxes.

Moral of the story? Best to define what is included in "OTD."

debellocivili · March 2007

never negotiate "OTD" without defining with the salesperson what that means.

Very good advice. It makes sure that everybody on the same page and more importantly helps keep them there because it is in writing.

it's the principle of honoring the deal they promised you.

I agree. Even if it is an honest misunderstanding, I hate being told one thing only to find out later they meant something else. If it can be easily avoided - and defining the terms in writing ahead of time is easy - then I would be a fool to do otherwise. Thanks guys

joel0622 · March 2007

Thats why when I deal in large amounts of money I don't like to use lingo. Try using. What is my total cash price including taxes and fees.

I am in this business and terms I hate are

Out the door
Stroke a check
How much down stroke
Give me a ball park figure. It does not have to be exact.

renz1088 · April 2007

Hey everyone, im in the market for my first car. Honestly, i'm looking for a used vehicle that's cheap. Real cheap. I dont really care about the way it looks or it's interior due to the fact that it's my first vehicle and chances are, i'm going to get some scratches on it. So, i'm hoping you guys can provide me with some ideas on reliable and cheaply priced cars.

tidester · April 2007

Hi, Renz!

You'll probably want to narrow your "requirements" at least a little bit! You CAN get a used car for a few hundred dollars though its reliability, or lack thereof, will be disappoining in the extreme. I think the threshold for getting into reliable vehicles will be well above $2,000 to $3,000. Even then, your options are wide open, e.g. very old, high mileage, high-end versus relatively new, moderate mileage low-end cars.

I suggest giving some more thought to what you want out of the car. Consider looking through the classified in your local newspaper and driving by used car lots to get an idea of what's available and what typical prices are. Don't hesitate to ask owners in our Forums about their vehicles.

Here are some considerations that can help define what is right for you:

    Does performance matter?

    Is gas mileage important?

    Do you need space to transport stuff/people?

    Will you drive off road?

    Do you have a long commute?

    How important is reliability?

    Will you do your own maintenance?

    How long do you want to own this car?

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

user777 · April 2007

you migt want to add,
Do you know how to drive a manual transmission vehicle?

Do you have a commute which involves a good deal of stop and go driving / high traffic (some people hate to drive a manual under these circumstances)?

renz1088 · April 2007

Well I will most likely be dealing wiht a lot of stop and go traffic due to the fact that I live in New York City, and I dont know how to drive manual. Reliability, maintenance, and the length of the life of the car are probably what is most important to me. I want a car that'll last me a minimum of 2-3 years. I only have about $2-3000 to spend. I will not be driving off-road, and I would prefer a 4 door car. Do you guys think a used car that meets those qualities can be purchased within that price range?

renz1088 · April 2007

Well I will most likely be dealing wiht a lot of stop and go traffic due to the fact that I live in New York City, and I dont know how to drive manual. Reliability, maintenance, and the length of the life of the car are probably what is most important to me. I want a car that'll last me a minimum of 2-3 years. I only have about $2-3000 to spend. I will not be driving off-road, and I would prefer a 4 door car. Do you guys think a used car that meets those qualities can be purchased within that price range?

bobst · April 2007

Sure, you can get a very good reliable car for $2-3K if you know what you are doing and are also kind of lucky.

I haven't bought a used car since 1973 and even then I paid way too much for it, so I don't know a thing about buying used cars.

My guess is that it takes patience, perserverance, and a good deal of knowledge and skill to get a really good used car. That's why a lot of us would rather get a new car and keep it for a long time, like 10 years or so.

tidester · April 2007

You're basically talking about cars that are at least 10 years old. Expect them to be high mileage cars (above 120,000 miles). E.g. you could get a '98 Ford Escort for $3,500 or a '97 Toyota Tercel for about the same price. Personally, I wouldn't go back much further than that.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

gsemike · April 2007

Check out a Taurus. Make sure the tranny and electrical are in good shape. I've seen Taureses go 150k or more. You can probably get fairly straight 8 to 10 yo example for 3 grand-ish. Be forewarned, insurance in NYC is sky high. Make sure that you need the car and want the car enough to justify the insurance. If you're licensed less than 3 years, count on $200 a month. An old Maxima could be a good option as well. Look on Craig's list for cheapo cars.

newb1 · July 2007

Hi, I need help picking out my first car. My budget is around $8000. I do prefer imports over domestics and I am looking for reliability, good fuel economy, and decent interiors that are spacious. Also, I would like it to be a model that is less expensive to insure. I am a 20-yr old male in NJ. (ugh at the insurance rates here). Early 2000's would be preferred, but I wouldn't mind late 90s either if it fits my criteria. Thanks!

gtpoompt · July 2007

Been looking around for my first car. I'm 21, college student in Atlanta GA, been driving for 5 years with no accidents/crashes/tickets. Looking for a car I can run into the ground, so lets say 10 more years. I really don't care how the thing looks. I'd rather have automatic then manual, less distraction when driving in the city. Got $4000 to spend (can push to 5K if it's really that much better). Also I'm looking for good safety ratings so it is cheaper to insure.

I've heard good thing about Ford Crown Victoria's and Mercury Grand Marquees'. But gas mileage seems like a problem on those large cruisers. Corolla's and civic's at that price range have pretty much the same milage and year as volvo sedans and every other car out there. I do intend on learning some auto repair next year, so I can fix up my car. Any advice? Thanks

.

gsemike · July 2007

Getting 10 years out of a $4000 car is alot to ask. Some brand new cars won't make it 10 years although they all should.

For the previous poster looking to spend $8000, a Maxima could prove to be a spacious imported car that is reliable and a little economical. The insurance could be high however.

suydam · July 2007

and newb also --

Buicks! Better on gas mileage than the large cruisers, cheaper than imports. I am a Honda and Toyota fan generally, but for used you will be able to get a newer Buick often with less miles. They are extremely reliable. Either a Regal or LeSabre will get nearly 30 mpg highway. Other than the Pontiac Vibe, which would be too pricey for either of you, they are one of the few GM cars I would consider.

gtpoompt · July 2007

Ah, my mistake. I forgot to mention I drive less then 15 miles a day, and have quite a bit of school left, so around 7000 miles a year.

One other question. How is the Chevy/(Geo?) Prizm? Is this the same car as the toyota corolla? They seem to sell for WAY cheaper then the corolla's.

jlawrence01 · July 2007

I'd rather have automatic then manual, less distraction when driving in the city. Got $4000 to spend (can push to 5K if it's really that much better). Also I'm looking for good safety ratings so it is cheaper to insure.

You may be able to find a car for $4k that will last you 3-4 years without a lot of problems. Ten years is very doubtful. Components fail as much due to age as mileage. A $4k car will be about 7-8 years old.

You have to decide what is really important - gas mileage, reliability, longevity and focus on that. The Crown Vic will last a long time but the mileage is not great but they are cheap to fix. Smaller cars will probably not last as long but will get better mileage.

As for learning auto mechanics, my brother was a mechanic 15 years ago and has all the tools. He takes his cars into shops as he lacks all of the diagnosis equipment. Modern cars require a lot more than the beasts of the past.

suydam · July 2007

>You may be able to find a car for $4k that will last you 3-4 years without a lot of problems. Ten years is very doubtful. <

Not necessarily, especially if you drive less than 7000 miles per year. If you get a used car in pretty good shape it could indeed last, maybe not 10 years, but surely 7 or 8. My son drove the wheels off a '90 Mazda -- like over 15,000 miles a year as a full time college student--for 5 years and it was still running when we sold it. My other son has a '98 Le Sabre with only 68,000 miles (bought used in 2001 with only 30,000 miles on it!) that should last him several more years. Like the above poster, he doesn't take as many long road trips.

Yes, Chevy Prism is a good choice, as is also the Mazda Protege.

ateixeira · July 2007

I'll echo some suggestions above...Prizm and Vibe depreciate more than their twins do, yet they're every bit as good.

asafonov · July 2007

One other question. How is the Chevy/(Geo?) Prizm? Is this the same car as the toyota corolla? They seem to sell for WAY cheaper then the corolla's.

They have different body panels, and perhaps batteries and stereos, but are identical otherwise. Bulletproof cars, mostly, and extremely economical gas-wise. Stay away from the 3-speed automatic if at all possible, unless you never go over 60 mph.

newb1 · July 2007

I should've mentioned this in my earlier post. I am currently trying to decide between a 2002 Infiniti G20 with approx 67k miles on it or a 2001 Honda Civic with approx 86k miles on it. I will need to drive about 30 miles each day, round trip, so fuel economy means a lot to me, but so does reliability. I'm a bit reluctant on the Infiniti because I heard its auto trans is a bit weak, but I thought I'd ask for your input first. Both are around the same cost. Which would car do you think would be better for me?

cccompson · July 2007

The Infiniti has better safety equipment and, unless you plan to keep the car only a short while, is better bang for the buck IMHO.

user777 · July 2007

if it were me, the civic. i presume lower costs to repair but not sure. how does the fuel economy compare?

call your insurance company. which would be the cheaper to insure?

have you seen, driven both vehicles? what is their relative condition based on visual inspection? any idea of the state of the brakes / tires? was regular maintenance performed?

are all the civic's VIN stickers on all the doors, trunk, hood, front and rear-end present and match?

question to consider, what is the recommended maint on the timing belt for the civic? is it 90K or 100K? has it been done? that's a good chunk of change.

if buying something used private party, or from a dealer, no matter the vehicle, i'd personally demand you have the ability to bring it to an independant shop to have it looked over as a pre-condition of the sale. and i'd pay the $50, $75, $100 (not sure) it might cost to have it checked out.

i'd also pay the $25 to run a carfax on each. it's not foolproof, but you don't need to purchase a vehicle that has been reported to be in an accident or been flood damaged.

qbrozen · July 2007

For the same cost, I think G20. I mean, its a much more substantial car, is a year newer, AND has almost 20k fewer miles. Really seems like a no brainer, to be honest. Used Civics are just too darned expensive.

think of it this way, at 30 miles per day, you'll get over 2 years of driving out of the Infiniti before it even reaches the starting miles on that Civic.

british_rover · July 2007

And the G20 should have the SR20DE engine in it which is indestructible. That engine is one of the most over built engines ever made.

suydam · July 2007

The G20 has less miles. If they are both in equal condition go for the one with less miles. Do find out if it would cost more to insure -- that will be a big issue if you are 20.
It is pretty fuel efficient and will be much more fun than the Civic. It's rated high as a reliable used car. Definitely get them both checked out by an independent mechanic.

ateixeira · July 2007

This is no contest, Infiniti all the way.

Kirstie_H · July 2007

Infiniti. But keep in mind that you are going nowhere fast in that car. I test drove one a few years ago (ended up with an I30, now have a G35) and it was none too peppy. Good car though, and some nice features for an economy-type sedan.

ateixeira · July 2007

I doubt a Civic would be any quicker, especially with an automatic.

kyfdx · July 2007

Either of those vehicles would be 100% better with a stick... Especially the G20..

I say: Keep shopping!!

Kirstie_H · July 2007

Yeah, but since I've never driven one, I couldn't comment. Stick would be way more fun in either, as kyfdx mentioned.

paul_devil · July 2007

I am very interested about buying MINI cooper S 07. I did test-drive last two week. It made me love it more and more.

I am a first time car buyer. Now I am driving Civic 2000. And planning to sell and get MINI instead. I know that MINI limitation is about rear seat is very tiny. I would have consider MINI for 2 seats instead of 4 seats.

I really would like to know for those who experience MINI or encounter any problem of MINI maintainance and fuel economy. I have read many review from MINI owners, tester from many websites. All they focused was about fun driving. But hardly mentioned about maintainance or any problem that generally occur. I also want to know about how it gonna be if driving when it snows. I never seen anybody talk about driving MINI when it snows. I think I am able to effort MINI but not maintainance oftenly. Some owner mentioned about keep going to dealer to get minor fixed, or some thing broke, did not work properly. I wonder how BMW can let these happen with the high price car especially under BMW.

I would be appreciated for those who have any idea about this issues I just asked above. All I would like suggestion to ensure my confidence that I make the right decision to get MINI for my own first car.

Thank you you all

Paul

ateixeira · July 2007

I doubt your operating costs will be as low as they were with the Civic.

However, among fun cars, it's not bad at all. It's still fuel efficient and depreciation is actually very low.

Kirstie_H · July 2007

You'll probably find it helpful to visit our MINI Cooper group. We have several active discussions about the vehicle, and some on problems/maintenance/repair issues as well. Most of the posts there will be from those who own the vehicle, so you'll see positive & negative owner experiences.

bodble2 · July 2007

I think Pat had just bounced him over from the MINI group. :P

jayd123 · July 2007

I am graduating and buying my first car would appreciate some advice:

I am considering purchasing an '03 or '04 model (max. purchase price is 20K) of the Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Pathfinder, or 4Runner (also thinking Volvo XC90) models. If my primary concerns are reliability in regards to repairs (since the models are 3-4 years old) and mileage because I am moving to Los Angeles, what do you advise me on?

Also, how important would it be to buy from a dealer versus private party and should I spend the extra money to get a lower mileage vehicle still under manufacturer warranty?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

asafonov · August 2007

None of the truck(let)s you listed are really fuel-efficient. The Grand Cherokee (did they even produce the original Cherokee in 03?) has spotty reliability; the Nissan and the Toyota are generally very reliable, especially the latter.

What is missing from your request for information is how you will be using the vehicle. I am assuming you will commute to work/business, since you have graduated. How long the commute? Streets or freeway? (though I understand in LA a lot of freeway traffic is stop-and-go)

Basically, you should articulate why you want a used SUV vs. a new sedan/wagon for the same price. Towing needs?

If I were you, I'd get a new Accord/Mazda[3,5,6]/Altima, or a new RAV4/CRV if you must have a higher seating and more cargo room.

Kirstie_H · August 2007

LOL, that happens sometimes. Well, by checking out this topic & the MINI discussions, he should get some really good feedback!

Selecting and Buying My First Car

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