Lexus RX 400h and 450h

gagrice · August 2004

I wish I had said that!!!!

gagrice · August 2004

Wow! our paths probably crossed. I was in charge of the AJIS system the State of Alaska put on a Nova computer to keep track of all the court and criminal records. That was about 1975-76 while working for RCA Alascom... I did not go to the North Slope until 1981 and have worked there ever since. I keep threatening to retire after 43 years in the communications industry. Now we have all the phone, cellular & Internet for the Prudhoe Bay oil fields & 8 Eskimo villages.

Sorry this is not about the RX400H but it won't be out for another 8 months so we have to fill in the dead spots...

markrogo · September 2004

8 months?

Lexus says "early 2005" and you now have it in May?

motownusa · September 2004

Obviously you don't keep up with technological advancement. If you think that your antiquated 3 speed or 4 speed is just as good as modern 5 and 6 speed auto you are kidding yourself. A six speed auto is head and shoulders better than a 4 speed. The more the gears the closer the ratios resulting in smoother shifting. Also a 5 or 6 speed auto will have a shorter first gear than a 4 speed resulting in quicker acceleration from a standstill and a taller overdrive gear for a quieter ride, a lower rpm and improved fuel efficiency. But I guess you like ancient technology so maybe you also think Windows 3.1 is just as good as Windows XP.

wwest · September 2004

My wife said I had to make a choice....

A new 2001 Porsche 911/996 w/factory delivery or a new LS430. Europe is beautiful in May and 2500 miles on the Autobahn is an experience not easily forgotten.

Seriously thinking about a new X3 new spring.

wwest · September 2004

So very true....

My company still builds Novas, Eclipses, PDP-11s, and HP-1000s, all OBSOLETE minicomputers from the late 60ties and 70ties.

I guess I really do live in the past.

Oh, the last and final communications from Pioneer 10 were compliments of one of those obsolete minicomputers we donated to NASA when their PDP-11 failed.

stevedebi · September 2004

"Seriously thinking about a new X3 new spring. "

Better take a serious test drive on a bumpy road before you commit any money. I have read that the X3 rides exceedingly rough.

wwest · September 2004

In comparison to the RX I have no doubt. But the X3 is more along the lines of a "true" SUV, not off-road, but fully up to the task at hand (**) on ice and snow covered roadways.

** Definite RWD torque bias, no 45 second AWD timeout, and snow chains on the rear first and then the front when necessary.

Besides which, with the 05 AWD RX330 performance package (air suspension) there is no opportunity to take factory delivery anywhere near the Autobahn.

stevedebi · September 2004

I'm not saying it isn't a good SUV, and I suspect it performs great. But be advised that if you intend to use it as a daily commuter, you will not be as comfortable. And that great maneuverability (which comes at the price of a rugged ride) isn't really needed unless you commute in the ALPS...

wwest · September 2004

is also VERY handy for a quick lane switch to avoid that idiot that moved into your lane with no signal.

stevedebi · September 2004

"is also VERY handy for a quick lane switch to avoid that idiot that moved into your lane with no signal.

I find looking ahead at traffic to be even handier. One can spot those idiots a mile away...

And who is in that lane you are changing to? Quick maneuvers often lead to accidents. So can quick reactions to quick maneuvers.

Sigh. I suppose I'm getting older, looking for potential driving problems instead of just reacting as I did a few years ago.

rfruth · September 2004

"We've received significantly more pre-launch orders for the 400h than we've had for any vehicle in our entire 15-year history..."

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=651- 3

wwest · September 2004

I am usually well aware of the traffic, or not, in the various lanes surrounding my vehicle, but I have yet to discover a way to predict just what some of these drivers might do next.

stevedebi · September 2004

"have yet to discover a way to predict just what some of these drivers might do next. "

Doesn't make any difference what they do next. I provide sufficient reaction room and anticipate the traffic, and above all attempt to be PREDICTABLE in my driving, so others can be crazy if they wish.

wwest · September 2004

you haven't driven.....

wwest · September 2004

The only way I know to drive in LA traffic as you describe is at a standing stop.

stevedebi · September 2004

"The only way I know to drive in LA traffic as you describe is at a standing stop. "

Well, I've been driving that way for 13 years here in LA. You don't have to be slow to be predictable, in fact it can't be done - you have to keep up with the traffic.

gagrice · September 2004

Greetings from Hilo, HI
This morning I followed a new RX400h on hwy 11 headed toward Volcano. When I finally got close enough it had permanent dealer plates. So someone is getting to test drive the new hybrid. It was silver and looked like an RX330 from the rear.

gagrice · September 2004

Update on the RX400h. I talked to the Toyota people and they said Lexus sent 6 over from CA to make promo videos. They were only supposed to move around the island at night to avoid people seeing them... I may run into them again, hopefully with my camera ready...

andyux2 · September 2004

My guy called me today. He said Lexus just told the dealership (near Seattle) that the 400h will be coming out in March. Lexus will be sending info packets out soon and that theyll be notifying the waiting list people when their individual cars are in production. The waitees can then follow their cars through the whole process. About 2 weeks before the car arrives, the buyer will get some gifts from Lexus. About the 400h, he said theyve been putting it through some rigorous testing and found it had more torque than one of Fords best pickups so they had to tinker with that. Lexus has been test-driving one particular 400h which now has over 1 million miles without having to change the battery. He also said Lexus intimated the EPA mpg rating would be city (<40mph)  unlimited because it was always on battery, and for city/highway theyre shooting for 36  40mpg. He also said they would probably list with a $4k premium over the RX330 and said something about $40,000 vs. $44,000. Lexus is building a separate manufacturing plant for the hybrid because of the demand and they want to be sure to have a supply of parts for the release date, just in case. They stopped taking orders at all three dealerships around here. Dont laugh at me; this information is straight from the Lexus dealer. Ill believe this when I see it. Meanwhile, I wait with baited breath to see what the gifts will be.

usbseawolf2000 · September 2004

"About the 400h, he said theyve been putting it through some rigorous testing and found it had more torque than one of Fords best pickups so they had to tinker with that."

I am not surprise. Prius' 50kw motor can output 295lbs-ft torque. 400h will have 120kw electric motor and imagine what it can do.

"Lexus has been test-driving one particular 400h which now has over 1 million miles without having to change the battery."

Lexus might be planning battery pack warrenty for the life of the vehicle. To put up 1 million miles at 75mph, it will take 1.5 years if they drive it 24/7. It is possible that they had the prototype 400h for more than a year already.

"highway theyre shooting for 36  40mpg."

I think Lexus is going to have cylinder deactivation to achieve better fuel economy than the other smaller hybrid SUV.

"something about $40,000 vs. $44,000"

Even at $44,000 it is a steal deal compare to BMW X5. Lexus RX 400h is aiming to match performance of BMW X5 V8 and double fuel economy(mpg) of X5 while achieving SULEV. It is indeed an exciting product.

Dennis

rfruth · September 2004

Something tells me Lexus has their ducks in a row, Detroit may come to believe the old saying if you fail to plan you can plan to fail ...

michael2003 · September 2004

Would anyone know whether there will be an electrical outlet for use with things like a laptop notebook? If so, any idea about how much amperage/wattage it might be able to handle?

dewey · September 2004

"Lexus RX 400h is aiming to match performance of BMW X5 V8 and double fuel economy(mpg) of X5 while achieving SULEV. It is indeed an exciting product."

I can almost feel the trembling of the competition. If those 400h stats are true I may consider buying a Toyota/Lexus Hybrid in the future. Hopefully Toyota/Lexus will introduce a high performance hybrid wagon.

Kirstie_H · September 2004

A reporter is interested in speaking with anyone interested in buying the Lexus 400h. If you are planning on buying this vehicle or are seriously considering buying it and would like to speak with the reporter, please contact Pam Krebs, Edmunds.com PR, at pkrebs@edmunds.com by Tuesday, September 21. Please include your daytime phone number.

Thank you.

markrogo · September 2004

If we can track the cars, can we build them to spec, pick options and color, etc.?

That'd be cool. If not, my relatively good wait-list position could make me a later delivery as I'm bound to be picky.

tsheer · September 2004

"Lexus has been test-driving one particular 400h which now has over 1 million miles without having to change the battery."

Well, to reach 1,000,000 miles, they had to drive that one particular 400H at 60mph for 2 years, never stopping to refuel, or change the tires, or change the oil, etc. Does that sound likely?

usbseawolf2000 · September 2004

Before 2004 Prius was launched, they drove 7 test Pri more than 1 million miles. I think those six RX400h that gagrice that saw in Hawaii to do promotional video might be 1 million miles test vehicles.

Dennis

zodiac2004 · September 2004

Well, to reach 1,000,000 miles, they had to drive that one particular 400H at 60mph for 2 years, never stopping to refuel, or change the tires, or change the oil, etc. Does that sound likely

Even if it IS likely, driving non-stop is vastly different than real-world driving with start-stop cycles, driving speeds varying between 0 and 80 mph, weather, battery heating/cooling cycles etc.

ocuihs · September 2004

The Lexus RX400h hybrid luxury crossover is delayed. The first cars aren't due off the line until April 2006, partly for extra development to reduce the characteristic hubbub of an engine working under a continuously variable transmission. Toyota is spinning it as a capacity issue, increasing Prius production, and saying it doesn't want to launch the 400h until it has sufficient production at its assembly plant and at hybrid battery maker Panasonic.

Sources: November 2004 MotorTrend.com

gagrice · September 2004

hybrid battery maker Panasonic

Interesting, several sources on this board would have led us to believe that Toyota manufactures the batteries... This is what I have been beat down about for months. They CANNOT make enough batteries to satisfy the need.

usbseawolf2000 · September 2004

" Toyota manufactures the batteries... "

Toyota and Matsushita(Panasonic) joint venture the HV battery development. Here is a list of cars that use Panasonic HV battries.
http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/e_catalog2.html

Dennis

usbseawolf2000 · September 2004

Are you sure the report said 2006? Not 2005?

Dennis

maxhonda99 · September 2004

The last report I read said 2005, not 2006.

Also read a article about Jim Press and Toyota is BusinessWeek from the September 13,2004 issue yesterday and it said the same thing, 2005 release.

dewey · September 2004

I read recently in Wall Street Journal, Globe & Mail(Canadian Newspaper) and various other news sources that it will be here in our continent April 2005. I certainly hope Motor Trend did a typo error.

dewey · October 2004

There appears to be a contradiction in the Nov. 2004 MotorTrend magazine. While it mentions the delay until April 2006 , on a different page it also lists the RX400h as an 06 model in the SUV, van and truck guide. If introduced 04/06 it would most likely sell as an 07 model not an 06 model.

andyux2 · October 2004

I received an official letter from Lexus postmarked September 27, '04 which had the Lexus "L h" symbol on the letterhead. It says "Congratulations on taking the first step toward owning a new Lexus RX 400h. For the last two years, we have anticipated that the arrival of the Lexus RX 400h Luxury Utility Vehicle would be sometime in late 2004. With the final development stage completed and the preproduction phase now beginning, our launch date is more finely focused and we anticipate early 2005." It says to contact my local dealership to receive the most current status on my vehicle. There's more general information on the anticipated vital statistics of the 400h. I hope they mean it this time.

wwest · October 2004

The RX400h product will be cancelled in favor of an RX230h. An I4 with V6 torque/HP makes a lot more sense than a V6 with V8 torque/HP.

And I quite firmly believe that the Toyota hybrid concept CANNOT be scaled up to this level and still achieve reasonable fuel economy advantages.

Also I just simply don't see the majority of RX buyers as throttle jockeys.

The few times I have needed, wished for, more HP in my 2001 AWD RX300 was during passing at reasonably higher speeds at which times the electric motor as a supercharger offers ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE.

Take notice that the Honda hybrid has only an 8 HP electric "boost".

gagrice · October 2004

"The RX400h product will be cancelled in favor of an RX230h."

That is an interesting take on the project. If they can overcome some of the manufacturing problems they will probably still bring out the RX400h. I talked to our Lexus dealer. I acted like I was interested in the RX400h. He told me that they have 70 people that have laid down $1000 to get on the list. He tried the same tactic the Toyota dealer in Hilo tried. He gave me the line that I would be better off with the RX330 than waiting a year or more to get a RX400h. I wonder how many people fall for their bait and switch sales tactics. I think I like the straight forward way Honda does business. Not that I am a big Honda or Toyota fan.

robertsmx · October 2004

Doesn't make sense on the premise of battery supply alone. Why would Toyota announce doubling the production of Prius and not care about launching RX400h any time soon? Is Prius making more money for Toyota? I would have thought the Lexus would.

gagrice · October 2004

"Doesn't make sense on the premise of battery supply alone"

Well it kind of makes sense from two perspectives.
1. The RX400 battery is twice as large as the Prius. So they can build two Prius cars with the batteries of one RX400h.
2. The Prius goes a lot further in raising Toyota's CAFE standings. I don't think Toyota is worried about making money on the hybrids at this point.

If Lexus postpones the RX400h till 2006 as rumored, I think it will be a black eye on their credibility.

robertsmx · October 2004

To address the two points you brought up...

1. It would help Toyota to get "some" RX400h out from marketing point of view than to give all the allocation to Prius.

If it takes twice as many batteries in RX400h, if Prius production were to be upped by 25K, it would still leave room for production of 12.5K RX400h.

Also, does this mean Camry Hybrid isn't going to happen either?

2. Prius would help Toyota's car CAFE ratings (unnecessary since Honda and Toyota more than do well in that regard). RX400h would do the same to Toyota in light truck lineup though (where Toyota may need it more than it does in its car lineup).

gagrice · October 2004

(unnecessary since Honda and Toyota more than do well in that regard)

Are you sure of that? Honda does fine. Toyota has 2 of the 5 worst polluters on the road. Worse than the H2. I don't think you will see a hybrid Camry for at least a couple years. I don't think Lexus wants to exchange capacity in their RX330 plant to facilitate building the RX400h. They are probably making a killing on the RX330. It will take a bit to get the China factory for the Prius up to speed. I think they are not as organized as Honda. They have not managed to hit their initial delivery dates on any of the hybrids yet. And look how vague they are on the RX400h. Sometime next year is not a precise delivery date. If Honda delivers the HAH on December 3rd as they say it will show they have their act together better than Toyota.

robertsmx · October 2004

Thats exactly the point I made on CAFE. Toyota needs "light truck" more than a car for the purpose. Prius won't help in that regard, RX400h would.

That said, I just learned that MT is reporting the issue to be related to CVT (noise) issue although they mention that Lexus is spinning it as a capacity issue.

gagrice · October 2004

"Thats exactly the point I made on CAFE. Toyota needs "light truck" more than a car for the purpose"

I thought they just dumped all the vehicles in one pile and your overall emissions had to be a given average. I don't know a lot about CAFE regulations.

If there is a eCVT issue with the RX400h, WWEST may be right in his analysis of the whole HSD system. It works fine for Prius size vehicles and not much larger. They may have to re-think the hybrid business. Who knows maybe even get Honda to show them a few IMA pointers :-)

wwest · October 2004

Given the much lesser weight of the Camry over the RX the I4 hybrid would be a MUCH better solution and fewer matters of scale to content with.

So we're more likely to see an I4 hybrid Camry long before an RX400h, if the latter even happens at all.

rfruth · October 2004

Toyota already has a in demand hybrid sedan and Honda is about ready with their Accord hybrid so its time for the 400h (& HH) - I agree a Camry would be easier to implement but that will come after a couple hybrid SUVs.

robertsmx · October 2004

There have been rumors of Acura RDX in the near future (a smaller SUV sitting under MDX). In concept form, it was a hybrid, powered by a 60 HP IMA system (two 30 HP brushless DC motors) to go with 190 HP ICE for a total of 250 HP.

If RX400h is delayed by as much as MT reports, and RDX comes out as a hybrid, Honda could have (another) upper hand marketing.

dewey · October 2004

"An I4 with V6 torque/HP makes a lot more sense than a V6 with V8 torque/HP."

Fantastic idea for the Hybrid Highlander. In fact I would be quite interested in such a relatively inexpensive(hopefully inexpensive)vehicle. It would suit the needs of many---cargo volume, passenger space, mileage/emission, awd. The I6 for the RX330h and an I4 for a Highlander makes a lot of sense. People paying premium prices for a Lexus will feel justified knowing their vehicle vrooom faster than a Highlander!

dewey · October 2004

Pardon my cynicism, but I looked at the most recent media sources and there is nothing about a delay in the RX400h intro. The Oct. 3 New York Times just mentioned that the model will be out in Spring 2004. I still have my doubts---outside of Motor Trend I did not hear anything about a delay.

Such a long waiting list(15,000 are on the list for a rx330h) I think several media sources would have picked up on such a significant delay and some of the 15k individual would have been notifiied by now.

Lexus RX 400h and 450h

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