Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

foureyes3 · October 2004

Will there be bigger engine in the 2005 Titan? Will there be more diversity of styles to pick from the 2005? Has anyone seen one yet other than the Texas Titan? I heard the back rearview window is power.

bowke28 · October 2004

no change in equipment for 2005. maybe a color or two.

boomer1b · October 2004

Are available for most new trucks Check out
http://www.crlaurence.com

They have some cool truck accessories too.

I got my bulletproof window set ups for my motel from them.

sswells36 · October 2004

With the same interior option, the two are close to identical....

foureyes3 · October 2004

that's not much to look forward to in the 2005. so what's going to be the selling point of the 2005? I figured there would be something new to talk about besides two new colors. Maybe they would have a higher grade interior. Or a remote control lid on the bed. This way you could slide the cover with a remote. that would be neat.how about 18 inch tires on the 4by4 le model then that's nice. they could have options set up where you don't have to have a sunroof with the dvd system.

bowke28 · October 2004

first, the truck is just beginning to catch on. making changes too early is suicide for a new vehicle's sales. the 3rd or 4th year of a vehicle is normally when a "refresh" happens.

the LE 4x4 already comes with 18" wheels.

i dont disagree with the last one.

foureyes3 · October 2004

have you seen the 2005 titans? will they be here by the end of the month?

bowke28 · October 2004

possibly by the end of october, but maybe not till mid-november, depending on the region.

nvbanker · October 2004

I read today the Dodge Ram won the worst mileage in a truck award.

foureyes3 · October 2004

That's not an award. that's punishment. How did the Titan and F150 do in the category?

nvbanker · October 2004

Weren't mentioned. Ford's Ranger was the best in mileage for a compact pickup, Ford's Escape Hybrid was best for an SUV. Ram was worst pickup. That's about all they said.

boomer1b · October 2004

Prob. had that monster V-10 Viper engine.......

But if I owned one I wouldn't care anyway

bowke28 · October 2004

the dodge 1500 doesnt have the v10 anymore. it has the 'hemi'.

jcmdie · October 2004

The truck version of the Dodge V10 NEVER appeared in the 1500 series truck. It was optional in the 2500 and 3500. The SRT10 is the 1500 series truck with the the Viper V10 in it. This was done to directly compete with the Ford Lightning.

foureyes3 · October 2004

Yeah, I have seen that truck and it gets terrible gas mileage. I think it has 500 horsepower. It's definitely a truck meant for speed. You won't get much hauling out of it. Really when do you actually get to used that much power unless you drive on the Audobon. Ford lightning is considered quite the sports truck. I wonder if nissan will produce one. I think I saw a 2005 Titan or a very good look a like of the Titan. The grill was different.

bclilb05 · November 2004

I recently bought a Titan....after extinsive test driving, every full size 4X4 on the market....the titan had the most "get up and go", nicest ride, and looked the best. so i bought one.....i have done nothing but love my truck...i have raced every truck that felt like lining up...i blew away even the dodge "hemi", the ford, chevy .....and mud is no challenge for my truck...i recently applied flowmasters to it and there is NO match for the sound i recieved....i REALLY would go for the titan if one is considering...you will be very pleased with the results....

carnuts1 · November 2004

Yet the Consumer Reports survey placed the company's new Ford F-150 pickup in the least reliable column, along with the Jaguar X-Type and S-Type sedans, produced by its British subsidiary. Though the findings are contrary to other consumer feedback, Kozleski said Ford "will go back and see what we can learn from the results."

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0411/09/b01-328882.htm

ANT14 · November 2004

The survey doesn't reflect the new model, it's for vehicles purchased around 3 years ago. Ironically in JDPower results, the F-150 has won a slot on the top 2 spots each year consecutively the past couple of years. Consumer Reports is quite questionable and has been for many years.

They also recommended the Explorer Sport Trac which received a low roll-over rating on government crash testing. If you read the article, crash ratings is something they also factor in, for recommending a vehicle.

In the past, they have recommended some newly redesigned vehicles (not yet released) while placing other vehicles that have been out in the market for a few months as (too new to rate).

Which is why Consumer Report has received some critisizm lately since the media is starting to point these inaccuracies out.

carnuts1 · November 2004

the Consumer Reports survey placed the company's (new) Ford F-150 pickup in the least reliable column

jrc346 · November 2004

It is correct that the new reliability rating for the F-150 4WD is worse than average. However the 2WD version of the same truck is the most reliable domestic fullsize with average reliability. In the F-150 forum here on edmunds, I have only seen consistent vibration and resonance issues, no real problems with the 4WD and its components. On the whole, there have been very few problems it seems with the new F-150. I believe Consumer Reports is unbiased in its reporting, however I am not sure about this reliability rating given to the 2004 F-150. This being because in looking at the dots that indicate trouble spots on Consumer Reports, the new F-150 has all full-red dots except for half a red dot on body integrity. The Titan has average reliability and has 5 half-red dots. Which according to Consumer Reports "guide to the ratings" would mean that the Titan should be slightly worse than the F-150 in reliabilty.

Satisfaction was above average for the F-150 and much better than average for the Titan.

nvbanker · November 2004

CR is a real moving target for me to discipher. Always has been. I consider it a challenge.

bushlover · November 2004

What was the issue with the radio?

I live in Montreal and will be going to New York next week to buy a Titan. Any comments on that? Warranty will be honored here I believe.

Any more issues with the Titan I should know of?

boomer1b · November 2004

Use caution on the warranty issue.

Many mfrs. have new rules and are denying any warranty work on cars bought new in Canada and resold used in the US.

There are a few threads about this in the Smart Shopper area.

I have a place along the US/Can. border. I see many ex-Canadian used cars shipped to the US .

Because of short supply and/or the dollar $$ difference the prices are a bit lower.

BUT I wonder how it works for a US car to Canada?

ace555 · November 2004

I would have to challange your "racing" the dodge hemi. The truck has 345 hp, you have 305hp thats if you have the new Titan and even with your flowmasters you MIGHT have 315. Are you sure the truck was racing you? I really want to race a Titan, I have a 1997 Ford F-150 Lariat 5.4L V8 with all sorts of mods, K&N cold air intake w/filter, "superchip" and flowmaster duel exhaust 40 series. But you might have because even I could keep up with it untill we hit 50 mph then he was gone, but i have a lot of mods on my truck..

aspesisteve · December 2004

did all the "mods" you performed help or hurt your gas milege?

I'd sure like to get the milege printed on the window sticker of my '04 F150. Can't seem to break 15 even while hwy driving at 65 mph

dbauer · December 2004

if you are a truck guy, you should know that HP #'s mean almost as much to acceleration as cupholders do.

torque is the key, and the nissan has more torque at lower RPM than all others.

on top of that, the fact that its a 5-speed tranny with drive-by-wire acceleration gets the titan a solid half-length lead in a race before the dodge even gets off the line.

dustyk · December 2004

>>>on top of that, the fact that its a 5-speed tranny with drive-by-wire acceleration gets the titan a solid half-length lead in a race before the dodge even gets off the line.

<<<

That 1/2 car-length lead is not due to the fact that the Dodge doesn't have a 5-speed transmission and drive-by-wire, because it does. Actually, the gasoline RAMs have a 6-speed automatic transmission (545RFE). Dusty

nvbanker · December 2004

Drive by wire won't give you an advantage of time or speed, it actually will give you a half-second of hesitation over direct wire response, so it's not that.

dbauer · December 2004

and you smoked your breakfast this morning??? lol.

electronic throttle control has significantly faster response from the pedal over cable-actuation.

dustyk · December 2004

I think NV's correct.

The fastest a throttle can open on a direct cable system is only limited by the operator's human motor control. If we assume that drive-by-wire is faster, it still cannot be faster than the operator's foot.

On drive-by-wire systems the throttle is opened by a 4-pole stepper motor. Any computer lag time issues aside, these typically have a 50-150 millisecond reaction time, unless you're talking about a very expensive motor. The computer circuit that operates the throttle motor will have a reaction speed as well. This is typically limited by whatever clock frequency (speed) is plus the buffer (op. amp.). It's very likely that a drive-by-wire system could have as much as 300 ms delay, even in the best of circuits.

Three-hundred milliseconds would not necessarily be noticeable to the average driver. But it is very doubtful that drive-by-wire could ever be as fast as a direct cable operated throttle, in my opinion.

Dusty

dustyk · December 2004

I think NV's correct.

The fastest a throttle can open on a direct cable system is only limited by the operator's human motor control. If we assume that drive-by-wire is faster, it still cannot be faster than the operator's foot.

On drive-by-wire systems the throttle is opened by a 4-pole stepper motor. Any computer lag time issues aside, these typically have a 50-150 millisecond reaction time, unless you're talking about a very expensive motor. The computer circuit that operates the throttle motor will have a reaction speed as well. This is typically limited by whatever clock frequency (speed) is plus the buffer (op. amp.). It's very likely that a drive-by-wire system could have as much as 300 ms delay, even in the best of circuits.

Three-hundred milliseconds would not necessarily be noticeable to the average driver. But it is very doubtful that drive-by-wire could ever be as fast as a direct cable operated throttle, in my opinion.

Dusty

dbauer · December 2004

but dont forget that slack that forms in a cable, along with the imprecise nature of a mechanical throttle. the ETC has no lag in a cable, and the only lag time is in the computation for the right mixture, which you dont get in the mechanical ones...therefore, you get the "throttle lag".

this throttle lag is extremely apparent to me on non-ETC vehicles now that i know the difference.

drive the ford, then drive the nissan, and you will see the difference.

nvbanker · December 2004

I'm taking my anecdotal evidence from the complaints on the Lexus boards, where the drivers are complaining about the "hesitation" in the throttle response caused by the drive by wire in the new models over the older ones. It seems noticeable to them. Maybe Nissan has a more expensive motor? Doubt it though.

dbauer · December 2004

being more expensive has nothing to do with it. the lexus motor is a toyota, so maybe nissan just did it better...maybe the software in the lexus is faulty...who knows...all i know is the response in the titan is noticeably quicker than the f150. nissans engineers say its because of the DBW.

oldharry · December 2004

DBW may not change the response time, but the computer limits how fast the throttle opens.

I drove a Titan last week, and I did not like the throttle, it felt "twitchy". With my chevy, or any number of other Chevys and Fords, pressing slowly and gently on the pedal causes the truck to ease into motion, great for backing the hitch ball under the tongue. The Titan did nothing until the pedal moved significantly, then started moving with a twitch.

I did not like the feel of the steering either, but that may be just personal preferences.

Harry

xwesx · December 2004

but the computer limits how fast the throttle opens.

This can be good and bad, I suppose. Good because it will help those drivers who think they can force more power out of their trucks (under a load) not pour all their fuel out their tailpipes. Bad because if the response is not as sensitive as wire at low speeds, that would certainly be an issue (for me and others who use trucks for their primary purpose). Nearly every time I drive my truck, I'm either backing up to something or hitching a trailer solo. A jumpy truck wouldn't help much in such precision situations as these.

Honestly, why buy a..... Oh, nevermind. We're talking light-duty full size trucks here. No sense in my stirring up the waters. *sheepish grin*

dbauer · December 2004

"I did not like the throttle, it felt "twitchy"."

thats because with older, more traditional throttles, you have a split second of "lag time" between when you hit the gas and the vehicle goes. most people have become used to this, and going to an instant throttle in the titan can be disconcerting at first if you are not ready for the power. with the titan, there is almost no lag at all. it goes as soon as you touch the gas, with no delay.

oldharry · December 2004

It was a twitch. I touched the throttle very gently, and there was no immediate response until the pedal had moved a fair amount, then the vehicle "twitched" into motion. It was not a strong enough response to call a surge. With the mechanical throttle on my truck, I can increase the engine RPM a few at a time if I try, the Nissan gave nothing till it jumped about 50.

In drive by wire, as the Nissan has, engine response is not more instantanious than mechanical linkage. The opening of the throttle plate allowing more air into the intake is still what raises the RPM. Instead of a cable or rod, DBW has a rheostat that signals a computer that you want more power. The computer sends a signal to a controller that feeds electrical power to the throttle motor.

As throttle response is controlled by movement of your foot, there would have to be a LOT of stretching in the cable for the computer to open the throttle sooner.

I have driven Cadillacs with DBW, and their's is smoother than Titan's.

Harry

jrc346 · January 2005

I am 99% sure the 2004 F-150 came out with drive by wire throttle. Besides, these milliseconds spoken of are in MOST cases beyond detection. The main difference in how the two trucks here take off, probably has to do with torque converter differences and 4-speed as opposed to 5-speed auto transmissions.

While I find that under "drive by wire advantages" you do see "responce," automakers seem to site other reasons for adapting this technology to their vehicles. These include the desire to reduce moving parts, and to eliminate whole parts like the idle air control motor, and TPS senor and making one unit with all of these sensors/functions combined.

dbauer · January 2005

i guess i should play the lottery...im on the 1% side this time...lol.

the f150s do not have DBW.

ANT14 · January 2005

They have "Electronic Throttle Control" which in essense, same thing.

BTW, 939,511 F-Series trucks sold for 2004, shattering the previous all-time record of 911,597 set in 2001. Just though I'd share since the "they'll never sell that much again because of new competition" bandwagon was concerned...

dbauer · January 2005

has ETC only for the 5.4L motor. the other 2 engines are still antiques...lol.

also, the ETC wasnt on the truck till the '05 models. when the redesigned truck came out in '03, they all had a mechanical throttle.

ANT14 · January 2005

The redesigned truck debuted MY2004, and has had ETC from the start.

dbauer · January 2005

my fault. the 5.4L has ETC, but the 4.6 and 4.2 do not.

xwesx · January 2005

Wow. That's a heck of a lot of trucks. How many of those are F350s and below?

I honestly haven't noticed all that many new F150s or Titans up here in Fairbanks. Both are quite noticable because they are in marked contrast to other pickups on the road. Most of the new Fords I see on the road are 250/350, and Titans.... hmm. I have seen 3 or 4 that I know are different rigs, but maybe the 150s and Titans both are more popular with the military folk and just don't commute/drive on the side of town I frequent as much. I see new GMC 1/2 tons more than anything else, but our local GMC dealer (Aurora Motors) tends to garner a lot of local "loyalty."

dbauer · January 2005

all are f350s and below, some are fleet, but the vast majority are f150s.

ANT14 · January 2005

Xwesx,

927,002 are F-150-350, only 12,509 were above.

dbauer · January 2005

i think those 12k units are only f450 and f550...no 650 or 750s in that equation.

nvbanker · January 2005

How many Titans were sold in 04? Did they get to 100,000? My Dr. across the street was disgusted Saturday, with his Armada - said it's been "one thing after the other" go wrong with it. Been in twice for brakes in 18,000 miles.

dbauer · January 2005

they got to almost 90k. impressive with the slow start they had.

Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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