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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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  • I tested both this weekend. I am looking for a king cab/ supercab model as I don't need the rear seat that often and can't see the Both performed well. I would say the Titan is faster off the line but the ride was about equal. They both have comfortable interiors but definately different. The Titan Kingcab has smaller seats, especially the buckets. The problem I had with the Ford supercab was that the rear seats were about a foot off the floor. I don't know who they designed these for (maybe circus midgets). I had more room in my old Frontier. Overall I wouldn't have a problem with either vehicle but I'll go with the Titan due to the ocassional need for backseat use.
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    That's interesting. I heard others say the F-150 had more rear seat room.
    I would prefer the King/Supercab because I'd like the overall length to be as short as possible for easier overall maneuverability into tight parking spaces and for garagability.
    Can you get a bed as short as the 5.5 bed available in the F-150 in the Titan?
    Do both the Titan and F-150 have parking assist "radar" available?

    Another question: If you get the short bed and use a the bed extender for ocassional long loads, what happens to the bed extender when not in use? Do you have to remove it and leave it in your garage like an unused third row seat from an old minivan or can it stay attached to the tailgate somehow?
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    1st answer - The KC in the Titan is the same length as the crew cab. In the F150 the crew cab is the same length (i think) as the short box Super cab. In other words the some crew cabs actually shorter than some supercabs.

    2nd answer - The Titan has parking assist rear sensor in the LE model. I am not sure about the F150

    Last question - The bed extender in the F150 flips over to be stored but acts like a divider - it can get in the way sometimes as I found out in my CC frontier. The Titan has a high utility package that offers a moveable bed extender that can be flipped and stowed at the front of the box out of the way when not in use to extend the bed. It is a cool feature and most likely very useful. I had to stow my Frontier bed extender quite frequently in the shed.
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    I test drove a 2WD Titan and it looks like the Titan has everything I wanted. They only had one Titan on the lot and they marked it up $4995 over MSRP.
    It has much quicker acceleration around town, it had a more usable back seat in the extended cab version than the Ford, it has the factory sprayed-on bedliner, it has a better bed extender available than the Ford, it has an AUX input in the stereo (for iPod etc.) it has VSC (but only with tow package that lowers the gear ratios, cutting gas mileage further and adding engine noise at highway speed) and it has available side curtain airbags. I also heard that the Titan 4X4 can be safely driven on dry pavement in 4WD mode, whereas the Ford 4X4 will be damaged in that situation.
    However, I still didn't like the Titan I drove that much. The driver's door was really annoying because it wouldn't latch unless slammed. It didn't drive as smoothly as the new F-150.
    I'm going to test drive a 4WD Titan next month and see if I like the drivability better and if the drivers door problem is on all King Cab Titans.

    Otherwise, I like the F-150 better and may wait to see if Ford makes side curtain airbags available in a year or two. I also want to wait and see how the first year reliability goes anyway.
    The crew cab F-150 with the short 5.5 ft bed would probably work for me if side curtain airbags become available for 2005 or 2006.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I would like to Congratulate again the F-150, who was just awarded Truck of the Year, this time by Truckin' Magazine.

    http://www.truckinweb.com/TOC/
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    salesman or rep or something like that to explain to me the sense in having a 3.36 gear ratio that is OPTIONAL and comes with the towing or off road packages. No wonder the thing drives like a car. I would be willing to bet that it would feel a lot less peppy with a 4000lb load behind it -- thats when the gear ratio is really gonna lead to "bogged down" feel. Has anyone really loaded one down yet? Are there any comparos out there with towing tests? Not knocking the truck, just thinkin out loud -- they are starting to grow on me, except for this.
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    I wonder if they upgrade the transmission to a 5-speed automatic in the future, if that would take care of it being so sluggish? Lower first few gears will give better acceleration off the line and improve passing performance and the higher top gearwould give better fuel economy at the same time.
    Maybe the V10 and a 5-speed auto would give good performance and the overdrive 5th gear would still allow decent highway mileage.
    I still can't believe how slow it is with 300HP on tap. 300 horsepower SHOULD be more than enough, but it sure doesn't feel like it. Bad fuel economy and bad performance in the same vehicle sucks. Pick one, not both.
    They could also think about a turbo diesel or hybrids like GM is doing with their 2007 Chevy pickups. The Chevy Silverado and Tahoe hybrids will have both better power and better fuel economy, but they are 4 years away.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Want a fast Truck? F-150 Lightining, or Dodge Ram SRT if speed is a priority :)
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    when folks are disappointed with F150 acceleration. It has 300hp; but it's lugging 5,300lbs with a sluggish 4 spd transmission. According to this site, the 2004 F150 now weighs within 500lbs of the F250 superduty!

    The Titan not only weighs less, the Titan's 5 speed transmission,drivetrain, and engine were all designed & tuned as a package. I think Nissan struck a nice and refreshing balance between horsepower,everyday driving,acceleration & torque or towing.

    Then there is the brakes issue. F150's nemesis. According to I believe the PM test, the F150 brakes are weak again(?).
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    to date have been tu-tone. And they looked pretty good, especially from the front.

    However today in a parking lot I saw a plain red F150. It didn't look nice. With the high beltline & small windows, from the side it looked like, dare I say, a Chev Express Van but missing the quarter windows. With the F150's proportions, now I know why I've seen so many tu-tones. That's a lot of sheet metal on the sides Ford has to distract the eyes from.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    I will say this new F-150 seems to have hit a sweet spot with the public. For the short time that they've been on the market, I see them everywhere. Just yesterday, while out driving I saw 3 on the road within 5 minutes, all crew cabs!

    Bob
  • I've seen about 4 on the road so far. But I expect to see tons in about 3-6 months. Same as the new Expidtion and New Explorers.
  • Just test drove 04 F-150 4x2 regular cab with the 4.6L v8. I was supprised at how underpowered it felt. I currently have a 95 Toyota T100 6cylinder which feels much lighter and quicker. I am looking for a second work truck so it is between the Tundra & the F-150. I liked the overall feel of the F-150 (very smooth) and the little extra room behind the seats that is now standard is a plus for me.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    It's been a couple weeks and my Titan hasn't come in. Based on all the comments on the f150 nice interiors, I decided to just check them out one more time yesterday. Since I'm waiting for an SE, I looked at XLT's. Some random observations:

    Cheap black plastic door mirrors & very clumsy outer door handles. I prefer painted or chrome mirrors for easier cleaning. The Titan door handles(outside & inside) are higher quality smooth action.

    The silver dollar sized air ducts seem very small. Not bad during winter, but I don't see how enough cold air can come out of those little ducts for our hot summers.
     
    Plastic steering wheel, very clumsy turn signal, floor shifter also Walmart quality. However the dash knobs feel better quality than Titan. The power seats are power bottom only. The seat back is manual, and the increments are far apart and few. I could not find the right comfortable position for me. The door armrest to center console is pretty narrow compared to Titan. In side impact intrusion, the driver is going to get squished by the armrests. The rear seat bottoms when folded up leave exposed huge seat tracks taking up valuable space & not leaving a flat floor. The rear seat back cushion too upright & flat, the bottom cushion pitched too much towards the posterior. Backed doors rattled on 2-3 I closed.

    Obviously the comfort observations are just me, we're all different.

    Ford keeps talking about all the "choices". However all 30+ f150s I saw at dealer by my place are either stripped, XLT's, or Lariat's. And all were packaged almost identical...

    XLT's almost spec'd exactly same as Titan SE. EXCEPT, F150's $30,550: Toyota size 4.6V8, outdated 4spd trans, no power pedals,plastic mirrors,plastic steering wheel,plastic shifter, and an empty bed... Oh and it weighs an extra 400-500lbs for basically same size truck with Toyota size v8? If you want a "real?" v8- $895.00 additional.

    I obviously don't know what all the "excitement" is about the f150. I'm glad I waited for Titans to come out. Can't wait till mine gets in.

    In yesterday's Austin paper, finally 1st advertisements of Titan. Guess what? Ironically 1st discounts on '04 f150's: $4,450.00 by one Ford dealer. So much for resale value!
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "Ironically 1st discounts on '04 f150's: $4,450.00 by one Ford dealer."

    Your the customer they are looking for then. The $4000+ is for '04 F-150, but the Heritage model, not the new F-150's. Their should have been an (*) somewhere in that add pointing that out for the Heritage models.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    I just checked today's paper (I'm selling a bike)...

    One dealer:
    $4,455 off '04 f150 Supercrew. It shows $30,550 MSRP, so it must be the XLT with the little 4.6 motor I mentioned yesterday. That same dealer: $8,100 off '04 Supercab, Msrp was $22k
    The catch?? * shows must be FMC financed.

    Another Ford dealer here in Austin:
    $8,000 off '04 supercab (with Heritage photo). 10 available
    $10,000 off '04 supercrew (with Heritage photo). 4 available

    Looks like ford is feeling the heat
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The rebate on the new F-150's are for $1000, the Heritage model sales, to new F-150 sales is 6-7:1 .

    Also look for the (*) stating "Stock number etc." which means it's a demo. I have yet to see one car ad of any manufacturer that is actually honest about the deal. They all have some (*) which in reality it means your gonna get it in the (_*_) alright :)

    Rebates, prior, and future... Have no relation to heat placed upon this market segment. The Titan doesn't even register a bleep on Ford's radar. From what analysts have stated, the Titan will steal sales away mainly from the Tundra and Ram.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    Yep, 2 stock #'s. Here's to in the ( * ). TF!!
    Oh, and Tundra owners like me?!! :)

    At the grocery store tonight, this guy complimented me on my Tundra. I bit my tongue before I could blurt out would you like to buy it? :)
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    If Titan is only projected to put out 60,000 trucks this year, that's a rounding error to Ford. Despite the hoopla on this thread about the imminent death of Ford because of the loss of their F-150, I predict they'll be around a while, and if history repeats as with the compact trucks, forever.

    Nonetheless, the Titan may be a great truck. Time will tell.
  • I don't recall seeing anyone predict that the Titan was going to end the F-150. Although I'm sure that some would want to believe it. After all, the Mac zealots think that they own the world too with a 5% market share. I am just glad that I had more choices.

    It is my understanding that they are scheduled to make 100,000 units and have since changed it to 150,000 units based on the initial interest. True that is peanuts compared to Ford's numbers.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    but most didn't believe 27 years ago that new little Honda Accord & later a Toyota Camry would even sell. Let alone Japanese companies do so well in the U.S., on the big 3's own turf.

    I think Nissan will sell as many Titans as they can make. Right now this is a drop in the bucket to Ford, but I don't think Ford's millions mean success & quality. I admire quality over numbers. Nissan already expanding their production confirms I am not the only one.

    Nissan listened to potential customers and got so much right in just a matter of months! The big 3 should feel lucky Toyota didn't go after them head on at first, & that Nissan waited this long. Nissan has become innovative the last few years.

    I don't think it's Nissan's fault the big 3 left the market wanting when the big 3 had a monopoly on the market for decades? No matter whether Nissan sells only a 100,000 or 150,000 - the Titan is a success.

    Judging by all the adjustments Nissan has made with Titan, I'm pretty confident they'll work out some of the options snafu's later. Unfortunately higher manufacturing costs are directly proportionate to more options availability.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    the initial estimates were 100k PER YEAR...not for '04. since the '04 model year is short, they will target 60k. the goal for 2005 is 100k, and 150k for 2006. the long term goal is to be the #3 light pickup manufacturer. overtaking ford and GM is not possible.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    >>>...Nissan will sell as many Titans as they can make. Right now this is a drop in the bucket to Ford...<<<

    Not really. Most Asian nameplates make a lot more off of each sale compared to Dodge, Ford, and GM. And that's from the time of manufacture to the time of sale. Chrysler, Ford and GM are constantly discounting product because of competition and to keep moving units. They have much larger manufacturing facilities and have a much higher break even point.

    Toyota and Nissan won't have this problem with trucks. They have intelligently geared production to a realistic projected market share. Their business success is not based on the assumption of market share, but on margins.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • I may not be a businessman, but it would seem to me that Nissan with less volume and two brand new factories (one for new v8 engine and one for titan/armada production) to pay for, as well as the expense of training all those new to the auto manufacturing industry Mississippians and Tennesseens would DECREASE Nissans Margins, especially when you take into account that Nissan is undercutting Ford on MSRP. Ford has the economies of scale on their side for controlling unit prices thanks to their volume.

    What is dragging Ford down is trying to keep up with GM, whose apparent new corporate goal is to sell as many vehicles as it takes to pay their pension fund. Ford will lose any incentive battle w/ GM especially since the new f150 is more expensive. Without the artificial demand GM is placing on the market with their heavy incentives, I think that the new f150 would be a runaway financial success for Ford. With the market as it is however I think Ford would be doing good just to match 2003's net profit.

    In my opintion the Titan is an excellent truck, but it won't hurt Ford like GM can.
  • As a buyer who was 105% sure that I was going to buy a Ram 1500 Hemi.. I met this Nissan Salesperson who said, "just come drive the Titan"..

    I now have a Radiant Silver CC LE in my driveway. This is not a truck in like an F-150 or Ram or Silverado. If you just drive this thing with an open mind you will discover a truly great cruising vessel. This is a vessel that will attract the non-typical truck crowd. I think that there are plenty of geeks like me who want a truck but don't really want a 'truck'..
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Sidenote:

    " since the new f150 is more expensive. "

    Actually, Ford has already stated they have balanced out the higher cost of the new F-150 and it's yielding the same profits as the previous versions. Mainly because of some cost restruction, supplier cost reductions, as well as 60% of the new F-150 being sold are the higher (more expensive) trim versions.
  • I hadn't heard that. That statement was based on early articles I read about the new f150 that said it was $500-$800 more expensive per model. do you think that ford will be able to maintain that 60% higher trim versions when the heritage model is discontinued? and did they go back and get better prices from their suppliers after getting the numbers back from their initial sales?
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    >>>...but it would seem to me that Nissan with less volume and two brand new factories (one for new v8 engine and one for titan/armada production) to pay for, as well as the expense of training all those new to the auto manufacturing industry Mississippians and Tennesseens would DECREASE Nissans Margins, especially when you take into account that Nissan is undercutting Ford on MSRP.<<<

    You're right, Ford does have the economy of scale on their side, but at predictably far less margin. It could very well be that Nissan makes as much profit on one Titan as Ford does on four F150s.

    As to the capital investment of Nissan, its a good point IF Nissan floated for capital the way Chrysler, Ford and GM usually do it. But expansion of Asian nameplates in North America has so far been done with non-financed capital expenditures, meaning Toyota, Nissan, Honda have paid (mostly) cash for any expansion. So they start new production by applying their margins -- ergo profits -- directly to the bottom line.

    You are also correct about squeezing suppliers, something that Chrysler, Ford and GM have become very good at. They also expect a higher defect rate when they do that. History of the Asian nameplates in the US indicates that they are far more careful in this respect than the native nameplates since they have also been far more intelligent in realizing it costs far more to fix a problem than to design reliability in to the product in the first place.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • Dusty,

    I just wanted to say thanks for the thoughtful reply. Where do you get your information about auto industry business practices? I am assuming you work/worked in the field for a while.
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