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Honda S2000 Prices Paid and Buying Experience
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Comments
They thought that I was going to finance thru them which was currently 1.9% with Honda Financing, but I chose to buy it outright. I guess they were trying to hit their Memorial Weekend Day numbers.
Haggling point was the fact that this is the LAST year they will build the S2000 and these cars are not flying off the showrooms. Though it is the best bang for the buck, Honda cannot afford to keep this slick machine on the roads. It has been a money losing venture like the NSX. I'm very sad to see this car go, but it's business. Honda should learn something from Porsche and Mazda with their respective Boxster and Miata. Both are very lucrative niches that they possess and Honda should muscle their way into one or the other.
I digress...Get in there and pay no more than $29,500. Don't get the body kit and since this the most reliable sports car out on the market, you won't need the extended warranty - a $2000 waste and another way for the dealer to screw you.
Also buy a car with less than 10 miles on it...otherwise, it was the demo car and you should still be able to knock down the price even further (depending on the mileage a few hundred bucks).
Well best of luck to you all and hope to see you out there in those S2000's.
Upon what do you base your statement that this is the last year for the S2000?
Also, I paid $800 or so for my 7yr/75k/$0 deductible HondaCare back when my S was just under 2 years old. The current price is a bit higher from a discount HondaCare dealer, but certainly no where near the $2k the dealer tried to get from you :-)
I stopped for gas in mine last night, top down of course. There was an 04 or 05 silverstone in front of me - which is a rare sight and to have 2 S2000s at the station at the same time is really unusual. He had the top up and latched down. I don't think he even noticed I was in an S as well. I was going to say something like "Are you waiting for a nice day to put the top down?" (if was sunny and mid 70s - perfect) - but he went in to pay and stayed inside talking to the cashier for a while so I left. Of course, I was behind a smurf blue Miata at lunch yesterday with the hard top still on. I wonder if they know it comes off?
Please drive yours with the top down as much as possible. Thank you
Over 25mpg on this last tank commuting to work and back, VTEC'ing as much as possible. It is such a sweet car!
Dennis
One fact I will dispute is that the S2000 was a money losing venture for Honda. When I bought my 2002 in late 2001, I got a $800 discount to MSRP on a snowy day in DC. The TMV for northern California at the time was $36,800, $4,000 OVER MSRP. And that was a full two years after the original 2000 model had been introduced. A friend who lives in the Bay Area bought a Boxster at a $2,500 discount and later wished he had gone for the S2000, even with the Californai price premiums.
So, although S2000's are now being discounted to invoice, they had the longest run of "premium pricing" of any car I have researched, other than the Ferrari 360. Way longer than anything by Porsche or Mazda. The fact that they only made 6,000 per year for import to the US was intentional and limited by their partially hand built manufacturing process. I have seen some detailed financials on Honda. I would not dispute the fact that the consumer is getting a spectacular deal on all of the ground up engineering costs which were written off as corporate marketing and development. However, Honda got plenty of bang for their buck with the S2000. If nothing else, they sent Porsche back to the drawing boards three times to increase the power of their base Boxster, trying to keep up with a 6 year old S2000.
The NSX was a different story and, in my opinion, wasn't nearly as impressive from a relative standpoint as the S2000.
Now the price you COULD get is a direct reflection of how well or how poorly the car was doing, sales-wise. With limited production each dealer knew they would only get a few so would not deal since the knew they could sell them. Those same dealers have several sitting on the lot un-sold and some even have un-sold new 04 cars!
These are April 05 numbers, since May is not out yet:
April April DSR** April April DSR**
2005 2004 % Chg. 2005 2004 % Chg.
S2000 760 856 -14.5% 2,276 2,687 -15.3%
This is the final tally for calendar year 2004 VS 2003:
S2000 7,320 7,888 -7.5%
So 760 in one month or 7,320 in the whole year (and 7,888 the prior year) is a low volume car, for sure.
When you compare these numbers against other slow sellers like the RX-8, THEY seem to be flying off the lot in comparison :-) Compared to the G35/350Z this is not even a blip on their RADAR.
I hope they keep making the S, I love mine and I am thinking of selling my 2001 and getting a new 2005 or 2006 (assuming they make one) to get the updates and a newer car.
Dennis
Dennis
Terms and Conditions
2005 S2000 Special AHFC Special Featured $299 Lease
$299.00 per month for 36 months.
$2,499.00 capitalized cost reduction.
$3,693.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month’s payment, security deposit, capitalized cost reduction and AHFC upfront acquisition fee; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, registration, options and the like).
Model AP2145ENW.
Offer valid from 6/1/2005 through 7/5/2005. Not all buyers may qualify. Subject to limited availability. The specific featured lease listed is not available to New York residents. New York residents should contact their dealer for New York featured lease. Terms and conditions vary for New York Residents. In addition, AHFC limits leasing terms to 39 months or less to residents and dealers in the state of Rhode Island.
Offer valid from 6/1/2005 through 7/5/2005 for new and unregistered Accord vehicles only and only on approved credit by AHFC through participating dealers. AHFC standard credit criteria apply. FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2005 S2000 (Model AP2145ENW). MSRP $33,665.00 (includes destination). Actual net capitalized cost $29,333.63. Dealer participation may affect actual payment. Taxes, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $10,764.00. Option to purchase at lease end $19,862.35. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15¢/mile over 12,000 miles/year. SEE DEALER FOR DETAILS. The specific featured lease listed is not available to New York residents. NY residents should contact their dealer for NY featured lease. Terms and conditions vary for NY Residents. In addition, HFS limits leasing terms to 39 months or less to residents and dealers in the state of Rhode Island.
Cons: a few small scratches, 1 minor accident(but excellent repair job), rattle behind right seat, needs 2 rears tires
Pros: has extended warranty until 2009, color I wanted, unmodded/not abused, mechanically sound(was inspected by a mobile service)one of the 2 years I wanted, had to shop for new insurance and got a quote lower than before but with more coverage.
I have to say I am quite happy with this purchase. I thought about a new S but did not think they were worth the extra money in spite of enhancements.
I'm loving my S2000 and it truly was one of the better deals on any car that I have bought.
However, didn't know of the Honda Care. Should I go back and get it? I just thought of it as a way for them to ask for more money since they made little on the car. $2000 seemed way excessive, but maybe I can get them to come down on that price as well.
Have you had need for the Honda Care or is it a comfort of mind thing?
Thanks in Advance. BTW I'm not getting quite the mileage that you are. At least after my 2 tanks, about 21-22 miles/gallon.
I assume the warranty is the HondaCare? Be SURE you get a transfer paper signed by the prior owner and send in your $50 fee right way. It DOES NOT go with the car, but with the car+owner combo so if you try to take it in for extended warranty under your name it will be no go unless get it transferred. Depending on the miles (70k or 100k) and deductible that is worth another $1k or a little more - which makes your deal that much sweeter.
A 2L I4, 2 seats, and the $32k MSRP have kept the S from being popular with a lot of younger folks. They TEND to have more claims and drive the cost of insurance up for everyone. The S used to be really inexpensive to insure, but so many used ones available for lower prices have led it to be re-rated by most companies (more accident prone folks driving them now).
I love the Suzuka blue paint - very sharp.
Congrats!
Dennis
I paid $825 for my 7yr/75k/$0 plan a couple of years ago. Looks like the same plan is around $100 or a little more higher. I would suppose that means Honda has had to pay some claims?
I don't have any questions about the car, but Honda only gives you 3/36k on a new car, this was a lot of money, and parts and labor are sky-high. Plus this is a 9k (or 8.5k) high output (near race) motor so it may not last as long as an Accord I4 or something.
You can wait until just under 24 months from new or 24,000 miles and purchase the plan at the same price. There is a $60 fee if you wait past that point but are under 36/36k then the fee goes to $160 and after 42/42k you can't get it at all. No need to rush to get the plan - just keep in mind a good time is right before those times and get it then.
Dennis
Two questions, the 02 was crazy fast, but I couldn't seem to get the thing to rev anywhere near the 9000 mark. I was shifting at around 5500, seemed like it would take me 20 miles to get to the 9 grand mark, it just didn't want to get there... Is this normal?
The 05 was so much different, It was more like driving my Accord than the '02 S2K. Does the motor really loosen up that much as the miles accumulate? It wasn't a slug, but it didn't seem to have the crazy nature of the '02...
Thanks for the help in advance.
Does that mean that it could have been a demo and was driven wildly by test drivers? What if, anything, should we do?
149 miles is not much... If it was a test driver, it didn't get very many drives.. We all want cars with 4 miles on them, but it doesn't always happen.. Especially with a model that some dealers only keep two or three of...
regards,
kyfdx
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I find Dealer B. I call and they match the $30299 price. We go and test drive new car. They don't have the color I want. We sign a Buyer's Order for the black car, give them a check for $1000 'Earnest Money". They call and say the car is there and ask when we want to take delivery. I asked for an ammended Buyer's Order with the Extended Warranty added which was faxed to me this morning. As of yet, it is unsigned.
The sales Manager for Dealer A calls today and says they want my business. They have a new Black '05 and they will beat the other dealer's price, throw in a 250,000 mile Powertrain warranty, and deliver the car to my house (50 miles one way) and bring the paperwork.
What do I do since Dealer B has our $1000 check and the Buyer's Order?
If you shift before the VTEC you are driving a 100hp car :-)
The newer car will loosen up over time, but it will never rev to 9k :-) The newer motor has more torque so will pull better from a stop and before you hit the VTEC zone.
Dennis
My slightly used 2001 S had just over 1k on it when I got it and it has been just fine.
Wow! An S2k for a first car - not bad. Mine first new car was a '79 Fiat X1/9 - which was a heck of a lot of fun for that time.
Dennis
Keep in mind dealer B had to go get (or swap) for the color you want - so they are out some time and trouble if you back out of the deal. If the "A" dealer wanted your business they should have stepped up to the plate the first time. I would get their out the door offer, but unless it is just serious bucks below "B" then honor your word.
Also, you can get a HondaCare extended warranty (the ONLY one to get) for a discount online - it does not have to be purchased with the car. I am better the dealer is making a lot of money off of your warranty purchase.
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/hondacare/warranty.htm
for example gets $1,285 for the 7yr/100k/$0 deductible plan, the 7/75k/$0 should be $200 or so less. Other dealers online may have a lower price. DO NOT PAY your dealer too much for the warranty - either have them match the online price or get it elsewhere.
Also, I always recommend waiting before getting the warranty. It is pro-rated refunded should your car be totalled, stolen, or you trade it in. There is almost NO reason to start this "clock" now when you can buy for the same price in 24,000 miles or 24 months. It goes up $60 if you wait until 36,000 and 26 months.
Dennis
You can keep doing that forever, and you'll never end up with a car...
regards,
kyfdx
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If the sales rep from Dealer A had just said yes we'll match or beat the price in the first call instead of asking me to call that online dealer back, we would have went straight to them instead of dealer B. So I do agree with you there.
I also agree with you "A deal is a deal, but saving money is saving money."
I;m going to call "A" back and tell him that unless he can offer me a significant deal on the car we're staying with "B" to see what he says. Then I'll take that to "B" and see if they do anything with it. Regardless, I know we will stay with "B" becasue as I've said, it's been a pleasant experience so far. Of course they are selling me a new car.
I did print out your post on the EW to show my husband. I agree with you. I didn't think we should get it at all. I plan on trading it in at 4 years (maybe sooner) for a new one. After reading your post I'm sure he'll agree too that we should wait.
Thanks, Tee
I love my S and I think you will love yours too.
I was talking to a woman last week that was looking at my BMW (that I have up for sale) for her husband. I told her I obviously married the wrong woman as my wife never gave ME a BMW for a present
Dennis
If both dealers said "we will beat any price" then they both could quote you full MSRP and neither would have to deal at all.
A local dealer used to do "we will beat anyone's signed buyer's order by $xxx". When I tried to leave THEIR dealership with THEIR offer sheet they snatched it back - "you can't take that with you". They know the other dealers do the same thing so they were making empty promise.
In the end, it will probably only be a little bit of a discount anyway. I think we all (me included) get too caught up it getting the last dime out of the deal. $200 on a $30k car is 0.67% - so don't worry, be happy :-)
Dennis
The new '05 seems to have a much wider spectrum of power, didn't need to rev the crap out of it just to get around... Even in 5th at 2500 RPM, the thing had some get-up-and-go even without downshifting. Nice.
Thanks again for the info.
The interior upgrades on the 04-05 cars are nice and they handling is improved (less tail happy). I don't care the newer wheel design and larger tires, but if you can afford a new one that is what I would get. I am seeing prices around invoice these days which (I think) is a heck of a car deal.
I am toying with the idea of selling mine and getting a new one. If they really ARE dropping the S I want to get a newer example so it will last me even longer.....
BTW, what I did when shopping was drive USED S2000s. #1 I didn't want to redline a 0 mile car that someone else would end with, but I also wanted to know what it would feel like after the break in when you COULD redline it. So use the Honda CPO locator or look around and find an 04 or 05 that is used with some miles on it to test drive. It will give you much better feel for the way the car will be after you buy it and break it in right.
It is a little shock to go from a 368 lb-ft daily driver to the 153 lb-ft (161 if I had a 2.2 S) S2000. I just have to pay attention, and I would not have it any other way.
Dennis
Does the car need an alarm system?
Are the headrest speakers needed?
What should I be paying for dealer installed options (eg. wheel locks, seat back pocket, headrest speakers, security system, cd changer).
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steven
My 2001 has the OEM alarm and it works fine and integrates with the keyless entry and the rest of the car. The first owner purchased it and had it installed. I am not sure I would have bothered, but I don' live in a high crime area. I know from seeing the instructions I would not have installed it myself. An aftermarket system would be more sophisticated - a pager, interior motion sensor (in case someone cuts the top but leaves the door closed), etc.
Headrest speakers "ruin" the stereo effect, but would help you hear the stereo with the top down driving at speed.
I would skip the seat pocket, the first owner got one of those too and I have NEVER used it. Ditto the changer, but I DO use it. For the money of the changer, you could replace the in dash with something nicer/more powerful that plays MP3s. You can even get an interface to tie certain aftermarket head units to the left hand stereo controls.
Look at forum sponsor H&A for decent prices on the add ins. If you dealer can give you about the same price then get them from your dealer, if not then just order this stuff and save money. Note that H&A has the install PDF files online so you can see what is involved with the install - and get the hard stuff done.
http://www.handa-accessories.com/s2000-04.html
Dennis
Cardirect.com wants $31,434 (invoice $30,334). Where would you recommend getting an aftermarket stereo system from?
Just about any place - Crutchfield if you want to put it in yourself. Or maybe LogJam Electronics. Also any local shop could do a basic install.
Lucid Automotive sells hard wired kits to let you use the dash controls with Alpine, Sony, and Pioneer aftermarket units.
http://lucidauto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LA&Category_Code=dc
Pac makes the SWI-X steering wheel remote controller interface and it should work as well - but it uses IR to control the aftermarket head unit.
If you don't mind losing the dash controls, then any DIN sized stereo should work and is easy to swap out yourself if you have a wiring adapter kit (free with radios from Crutchfield or $10-20 elsewhere).
Dennis
They use 29333 as the net cap cost - if you add the 2499 into that the "sales price" is 31832... so about 1,000$ more than most people are seeing for purchase price.
How much does the lease payment go up for every 1,000$ you add to the lease?
Does anyone know the moneyfactor on this lease?
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36/36k - 59% 0.00073 MF
36/45k - 57% 0.00073 MF
If you break down the $2499 you have to put down to get the payment, it is $299 first month, $299 security, and $595 lease acquisition fee. That leaves $1,306 as a cap cost reduction. Add that to the net cap cost and you get $30,639. Invoice is $30,374. So the dealer makes $265 plus any doc fee or options. One of my local dealers said they would not sell the car for that price. Most folks are finding around invoice to just a little under is about it (the dealer has a little over $1,000 in hold back).
So if you did the deal at invoice AND paid the acq, security, and first month up front it would be $328.66 a month . Roll in the acq fee and get them to waive the security deposit (MF goes up 0.0001) and it would be $348.71 with just first month, dealer fee, tax, tags, title due.
I love my S and $348.71 + tax per month with little out of pocket is a sweet deal.
With the Accord leases they started out nice and got even nicer. I don't see how the S lease deal could get much better. They are pricing the car right at invoice (for dealers who choose to do that) and the MF is right at 1.8%. Even if the lowered the MF to 0.0002 (0.48%) the payment would only go down $27 a month. So I don't THINK it will get better later on this summer unless they put dealer money on the cars.
Dennis
or am i misreading the terms?
From the honda website: $2,499.00 capitalized cost reduction.
$3,693.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month’s payment, security deposit, capitalized cost reduction and AHFC upfront acquisition fee; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, registration, options and the like).
The numbers I posted are still good - in that if you get the car for invoice and pay the stuff at signing it will be the payment I showed - or roll it all into the lease and get the payment I showed for that.
The difference is that the dealer has another $1,197 in profit than I stated IF you do the promo deal as listed. That makes in more incredible that a local dealer said they would not "participate" in the lease promo.
Also the security deposit is $300, not $299 I typed (I forgot to round it up).
With the really low interest rate I would go for rolling as much into the lease as possible and MAYBE pay the higher rate to waive the deposit.
The main is to get a lease calculator you can use either in a Palm device or online or something. Then you negotiate the price down as low as you get it then make sure they use the right money factor - then run the numbers for yourself and decide how to handle the fees and deposit.
Sorry for the confusion :-)
Dennis
Does anyone know what credit score is needed to get the current s2000 lease offer from Honda? I just came back from the dealership, I got the price that I wanted but at the end they told me that I'm not qualify with a credit score of 640. And of course they offered a higher Money Factor of .00133 instead of the .00073. Please correct me if I'm wrong, is it true that is easier to get qualify in a leasing vs. financing (owning) a vehicle? In the past I've successfully leased a Nissan and a Lexus and they were both $33,000+ vehicle. Could it be that Honda Financial is more strict? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Car_man and Dennis – thanks for the info/advise from my previous post.
-Jeff
The bump in the rate takes your from $328.66/mo (you pay security, dealer fees, tags, and acq fee at signing along with first month) to $358.80 which is a pretty good bump. The rate is still nice - cheaper than you can get elsewhere - but you will be paying $30 more a month or $1,080 over the life of the lease.
I would try to ask someone at the dealership or call AHFS and see what they say.
I would not be happy, but I don't know that I would let $30 a month keep me from an S :-)
Dennis
2) The bank has to take your car back at the end of lease, also exposing them to more risk..
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Find a dealer that will sell you an 05 for about invoice, I can't see doing that good a deal on the 04 - so it will just continue to sit. If no dealer in your area will, just check fleabay there are several new S2000s on there with a buy it now from $29,xxx to $30,xxx .
Dennis
thanks
matt
http://www.pac-audio.com/products/swi.htm
The one from Lucid is hard wired and the PAC is IR.
I use my Garmin GPS-V or 276c in the S - just sit it on the console between the radio and the shifter - works just fine. But I only use it on trips, not for driving around town.
Check over at www.s2ki.com in the audio forum I am sure someone has installed one of those in-dash stereo/GPS things in an S.
Dennis
thanks
You CAN get a new 05 without the "demo miles" for $30k including destination and dealer fees.
Congrats on the new car - and you got the right color! One good thing about the demo miles is no torture waiting to VTEC the motor :-)
Dennis
67vette, "Security systems (Lojack, alarms, engine immobilizer, etc.)" #328, 13 Jun 2005 2:53 pm
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http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2001?mid=2005070148995&mime=asc
and S2000 sales for June 2005 were 972 units, up from 629 for June 2004. Total of the year is now at 3,945 still a little behind the 4,238 for YTD for last year.
One of the 972 was mine - I traded my 2001 S for a new 2005 S. The dealer gave me enough on the trade to buyout the lease (7 months left) so no negative equity to roll into the new one and nothing out of pocket to get out of it. Then they sold me the new car for $30,000 including dest and dealer fees. Needless to say, I am a happy camper!
BTW, they are selling my trade in CPO - with less than 18k on the clock it should make someone a nice car for a less than new price.
Dennis