Lincoln Aviator Maintenance and Repair

joel2 · March 2005

I didn't get his name or #. He called me in response to to my contact with the Service Center # that is in the owners manual. He rushed me off the phone after telling me the "party line" by saying he had to go to a meeting. If he represents the best Ford has in their customer service dept. they are in trouble.

joel2 · March 2005

Yes and no! When the air outside is very cold unless the temp. setting is very high the windshield will not clear. Because a high fan speed is needed one ends up with a blast of cold air in the face from the defogger vents for the side windows and roasting feet (or freezing feet if you direct all the air to the windshield.

Anyone with an Aviator that has driven it any distance in very cold air has experienced this problem

heyjewel · March 2005

Joel;

Hey, this is heyjewel. We emailed in the past about the HVAC problem (mine is in my LS.) Sorry I haven't been keeping up on the Aviator board. Just popped in today and saw you're proceesing with class action.

If it's not too late, I'll probably want to jump in. Please let me know how to go about.

Also, to those who've asked if this problem is in Explorer/Mountaineer? I'd say IF those vehicles have AUTO 2-zone HVAC then they probably also have the problem. If not, maybe not.

wwest · March 2005

My guess would be that Ford is now using an automatic climate control design by Denso USA, an offshoot of NipponDenso of Japan.

I sued Lexus in 1992, and lost, for the very same problems some of you seem to be experiencing.

Apparently some idiot in Japan came up with an HVAC design that relies EXCLUSIVELY on the ability of the A/C to dehumidify the incoming airflow and thereby prevent or even remove windshield fogging.

Even knowing that the A/C is shut down automatically at lower outside temperatures when the windshield is most likely to fog over due to cold outside airclow impinging on the exterior surface and thereby lowering the interior surface to dewpoint.

You can read a LOT more on the subject bt searching for wwest & defog here at Edmunds or denso & defog with google.

After 13 years of denying that there is a serious design flaw in the Denso design Lexus has recently added several C-best options that the dealer can set upon customer request.

1. Disable the A/C compressor completely, through multiple, ALL, restarts, if the driver turns it off manually.

2. Unlink the automatic operation of the A/C compressor from the defrost/defog/demist mode. In a Lexus the A/C will be automatically operated in defrost/defog/demist mode but with NO indication to the driver.

3. Absent having the dealer correct it using the 3rd c-best option the Lexus (NipponDenso, Denso US) climate control system will switch, automatically, from heating (airflow primarily from the footwell outlets with significant "leakage" to the defogger outlets) mode to cooling mode, dash & footwell initially when the temperature nears your "comfort" temperature setpoint and then to dash only once your setpoint is reached.

The important point is that if the system is allowed to switch to cooling mode, ABSOLUTELY no airflow is routed, "leaked" to the defogger outlets to keep the windshield warmed and hopefully above the dewpoint of the cabin atmosphere.

Additionally once the climate control "senses" that the cabin atmosphere has risen to near or at your temperature setpoint actuating the defrost/demist/defog mode will result in COOLING airflow, as much as 20F below the cabin temperature setpoint, being routed to the interior surface of the windshield.

nvbanker · March 2005

I have had 2 Mountaineers with the same HVAC system as the Aviator/LS uses, and it doesn't have this symptom, nor has anybody on those boards complained of this malady that I've seen. It seems to be exclusive to the Aviator, for whatever reason.

wwest · March 2005

The outside appearance does not necessarily reflect the source of the controlling firmware.

For instance all Lexus & Toyota vehicle models use the Denso automatic climate control design but none share the same "appearance" and some not even the same "human" interface/.

jacebeck1 · March 2005

The following information is public information and is on file with the State of Minnesota...

In the State of Minnesota, in the case of Beckstrand v. Ford Motor Company and specifically on the HVAC issue, the jury unanimously found in favor of the plaintiff, Beckstrand. The jury instructed Ford Motor Company to buy back the vehicle and to pay the plaintiff an additional $50,000 (which is not allowed under the law in this particular case). The vehicle title will forever be marked as a Lemon Law buy back vehicle.

In open court testimony it was shown that Ford has A.) known about this issue, B.)has had many complaints, C.)acknowledged that there is no effective consumer solution to the problem, D.)is telling the consumer it is "within design spec" while internally stating they are working on a fix, E.)continued to sell Aviator vehicles to unsuspecting and uninformed buyers.

Representing the plaintiff in this matter was the Lemon Law counsel at Hauer, Fargione & Love.

wwest · March 2005

My new 1992 Lexus LS400 exhibited the exact same symptoms being described. Here are some of the fixes I applied.

1. Disconnect the A/C compressor clutch during the winter months when the climate is predominantly below 55F.

2. I added a switch such that just before I activate the defrost/defog/demist mode the IAT's (interior air temperature) sensor's voltage signal is raised enough that the system "thinks" it needs to HEAT the passenger cabin. This automatically results in HEATED airflow and HIGH blower now when I activate defrost/defog/demist.

You can accomplish the same thing by manually turning the cabin temperature setpoint up higher, a LOT higher, just before activating the defrost/defog/demist mode.

3. I added 4 small exhauster fans within the trunk to help EXHAUST the humid airflow resulting from operation of the defrost/defog/demist mode or the rear window defroster.

4. During the winter I manually close, and keep closed, the two dash outlet vents unless the side windows start fogging.

I have hired an engineer who is currently working on a fix for this problem in the Lexus RX300 series. Mine is a 2001 AWD RX300.

Our device is microprocessor based and will automatically detect that the airflow routing servomotor has moved to the defrost/defog/demist position, and therefore automatically increase the output signal of the IAT sensor.

So anytime I activate the windshield defrost/defog/demist mode the system will automatically provide lots of HOT airflow to the interior surface of the windshield.

A manual adjustment knob is provided so that once the windshield is cleared of condensation if the airflow to the windhsild must be maintained the temperature level of the airflow can be lowered to prevent discomfort.

nvbanker · March 2005

Aviators are as good as Lexi now. Lincoln has finally achieved Perfection, eh?

explorerx4 · March 2005

i tried to duplicate this in my '02 explorer, but couldn't. maybe i didn't have the right conditions. i never use the automatic climate control, so i don't have much experience with it.
there is a defrost and heat(feet) manual setting.

nvbanker · March 2005

I doubt you'll be able to duplicate it in the Exp. I've never been able to in either of mine.

cangelo · March 2005

Just to mention to the group if you use Rain EX no fog that seems to work real well. I put on the windows and to date no problems. But as I said before if you turn off the A/C and set F/D and use the rear heat system that also seems to fix the problem. I use the Avi for long road trips in all kinds of weather and since I adopted the above all is well.

pj7 · March 2005

I have the same climate control problems with my Aviator, which I have also been told is within specs - normal for this car - no fix available. Also have had it in 3 times for transmission fixes that have not worked. Now they plan to rebuild or replace the transmission next week. I would really like for them to buy it back. What should I do to pursue this resolution?

explorerx4 · March 2005

the face of the climate controls have a different style, but the buttons are all in the same place as the explorer. i kind of think it is the same workings behind the 'face'.

joel2 · March 2005

I'm going in front of the lemon law arbitration board in a few weeks. Will post the results. Have provided them with considerable documentation re. the HVAC problem and they have accepted my case for a hearing. My temp. differences have measured over 50 degrees when outside air temp is below 10. and the Aviator is on the highway. You need to get a service rep to travel with you in very cold weather. A temp. probe will document these extreem results. Results this extreem are fighly uncomfortable and can be considered dangerous.

pj7 · March 2005

Thanks for the info. Hope your case has a very positive result for you.

ajmtbm · March 2005

I believe the problem does exist in the explorer.

1. in my 02, i keep the HVAC exclusively on AUTO. When cold, i keep it set at 70F, and after the truck warms up, the fan goes very high for a bit, then slower and slower and slower. When at a low level for a while, I can suddenly feel VERY cool air coming from the defroster vents. I live in the northeast, so it is not too much of a problem, but on a couple of 10F days, the air was frigid

2. Since the Aviator and Explorer are basically the exact same vehicle, i ant imagine they would have a different system for the HVAC.

gwhite · March 2005

I would like to enable all navigation system functions while in motion.

My thoughts are to install a switch in the speed sensor circuit going to the nav system so the system would think it is stopped, then after programing it, turn the switch back on. This could also apply to the XM radio.

Any help, ideas?

Also I need a source for a wiring manual, preferable on CD.

Thanks, Gene.

akirby · March 2005

There is probably not a speed sensor switch that you could just wire into or bypass. It probably gets that information from the computer.

Is it really that much of a burden to set your destination while you're stopped? It's certainly safer.

hammer995 · March 2005

You can program the NAV while moving if your destination has previously been entered.

jacebeck1 · March 2005

PJ7:
What state are you in?

pj7 · March 2005

Jacebeck1:
I am in Alabama

jacebeck1 · March 2005

Check with your Attorney General's office (or their website) to get a copy of the state's lemon law. Then talk to an attorney specializing in lemon law litigation and ask their background and experience, including how many cases they have had, how many went to trial and their overall success rate.

Many states have a fee shifting provision in their laws that require that the manufacturer pay for the attorney's fees if you are successful. Many attorneys will not charge you unless they are successful and, again, the manufacturer pays.

In my case, other than a great deal of personal time, I did not have any out of pocket expenses.

Regarding arbitration, the playing field is not level. In my arbitration, the manufacturer's representative was in fact a Ford dealer owner with a clear and unequivocal conflict of interest.

Check your laws carefully, because if you PERSONALLY present in arbitration, the manufacturers rep may have a vote on the outcome. If you do not present, some states do not allow the manufacturers rep to vote. This would have made the difference in my arbitration and my process would have ended much sooner.

pj7 · March 2005

thanks for taking the time to share this info with me!

mercky · March 2005

Hi,
I am not an suv type, like sporty sedans but wife wants an suv. i think aviator drives ok. I read all the issues about aviators and model being changed,etc. Dealer has some 2004's left and asks around 30k+tax for 2004 aviator ultimate loaded with dvd+navigation+etc..
would you take it after knowing the hvac issue + other problems? it is same price as honda pilot after all.

joel2 · March 2005

If you live in the North and plan on taking any trips in comfort you should pass. The HVAC problem is very real.

madeline1 · April 2005

I've been having transmission problems for about a year. The local Ford dealership has not been able to fix the problem. I had it back last week "again" for three days and they said they changed the solenoid and this should solve the problem. Well it didn't, it was worse then when I brought it in. I drove it right back to the dealer and now I'm in my third loaner car waiting on some satisfaction from them. The lemon law no longer applies, so there isn't any recourse, I just have to wait and see what happens. Has Ford resolved your transmission problem yet? If so, what did they do?

jennylind99 · May 2005

On April13 I had my aviator in reverse and the car flew forward. Thankfully only causing a minor accident. I researched the problem and found that 2003 aviator had this problem on 25 cars. I purchased my car about three months after the recall. I find it impossible to get any one to check the car. the dealership has more avoidance techniques,
Ford has not responded. Did anyone else have this problem? Please any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

akirby · May 2005

The recall says there were 25 cars affected, not that 25 had been reported. Yours is the only complaint with that symptom and it's different from the other complaints relative to the gear select cable problem so that may not be it. What makes you think it's the same problem? Sounds like yours started out in reverse but then somehow shifted back to drive by itself?

What has the dealer told you so far? Was the cable broken or damaged? Did it work right after the incident?

jennylind99 · May 2005

The dealer is avoiding me. The car is working, but I am extremely nervous with it and am thinking of trading it in. The dealer in my area come to find out, is not responsive to any one. I am going to take it to some one else. The back up assist no longer works, It sounds crazy, but the car was in reverse and jumped forward from a parking spot and even jumped the bumper guard, without anyy
gas being applied.
Thanks for responding if you learn anything let me know, please

ajmtbm · May 2005

i would call ford/lincoln customer service and explain the situation and keep working with them until you are satisfied. i wouldnt bother any longer with the dealer.

nortos · May 2005

We have a 2003 Lincoln Aviator and have had the display for the navigation and radio replaced 3 times due to a problem with the display becoming extremely dim in cold weather. We are still experiencing this problem but there is no fix for it according to Lincoln and Ford - it's a flaw in the display itself, something to do with an internal LCD fault. We looked at the 2004, and 2005 yesterday to compare it to our display and they have the problem. Has anyone else had this problem?

We feel for the extra $2500 we paid for the navigational system, it should work in all types of weather. We currently have to wait about 20 minutes before you're able to see the map clear enough to use.

Thanks

bcoulter · May 2005

I own a 2005 Aviator. I notice sometimes that the driver seat seems to move back a very slight bit when accelerating from a stop. Has anyone else noticed this.

akirby · May 2005

Yep - all the explorer based SUVs do this, and they have for a long time. I think my 97 explorer did it. Replacing it won't help. You get used to it.

nvbanker · May 2005

Ditto what akirby said. After a while, it gets somewhat comforting........

akirby · May 2005

Just think of it as a rocker recliner at no extra charge......

nvbanker · May 2005

Yeah, akirby, and just think of the mileage you're saving on your Aviator while they rebuild your engine

akirby · May 2005

:sick:

ajmtbm · May 2005

92 taurus - same problem. had it adjusted at the dealer, they said that's the way it is.

apprently, the seats havent changed much in 13 years.

akirby · May 2005

IIRC the seats are made by Johnson Controls. You'd think they would have fixed them by now.

cangelo · May 2005

Just to let you guys know I have a 04 Aviator that had the problem describe above took it to the dealer. They were familiar with the problem sent the seat out to the trim shop and installed a new seat pad and secured it properly also installed a new seat bracket just to make sure all is well after 3 months. They told me it is a problem that does come up on occasion and it took them awile to figure out but they believe in most cases it is the seat cushion not sized or secured right and it does slid ever so sightly when it is torque just right during acceleration or de-acceleration. :shades:

03aviator · May 2005

Hiya, Im not sure if anyone else commented on your "soft noise"coming from the dash yet but I just bought a Avaiator and heard the same damn thing. I determined it to be the analog clock...hahaha.

marvelous6 · May 2005

I recently bought an '04 Aviator with 10,200 miles. It's loaded and has a Concept IDM-888 (aftermarket) stereo/TV/VCD/DVD entertainment system installed. Whoever installed the system did not do a nice job concealing the wiring and A/V multimedia unit. Basically they just placed it under the carpet on the passenger's side. I'm in the process of redoing all of this so I'm getting to know the interior of the vehicle well. There are a couple of scratches I need to touch up around the cup holders and control panels. Can anyone tell me where I can get the right color interior spray touch-up paint? I have the cream leather interior with the silver/tan color on the console fascia, cup holders, door pulls, etc.

Thanx!

slasater · May 2005

Hello ... I have also been having transmission problems, the car sometimes won't shift into a higher gear ... this car is a POS .. sometimes when I try to turn it on, it clicks, the lights flash and I have to get it jumped by a tow truck ... our Ford dealer says he has no idea what's wrong ... also, my memory board and climate control keep shorting out ... I will NEVER buy an American car, EVER again.. what is your experience?

mmarketos · May 2005

I have a serious rattle coming in the vicinity of the drivers side seatbelt adjuster. The damn thing is driving me nuts as it is right next to my ear. I have taken it in twice now to the dealership and they just keep replacing the internal seatbelt adjuster with no effect. Does anyone else have the same problem and a fix? I have taken off the panel myself and poked around in there numerous times, but just can't seem to find anything. It sounds like there is a loose screw/spring, but the spring is intact and not making any noise when I open it up. HEEEELLPP!!

akirby · May 2005

The best advice I can give both of you is to find a new dealer. Some service departments are really good and some are just terrible.

slasater - sounds like an electrical problem - bad ground or short or even a bad PCM. Don't blame Lincoln because the dealer can't troubleshoot it. And I don't think it's logical to think you'll avoid problems by buying only foreign cars. Even Honda and Toyota have problems.

ddowling · May 2005

I have the same problem with my 04. Started with driver side - now showing up in passenger side as well. Very annoying. Any help would be appreciated

x5oraviator · June 2005

I've been a bmw driver for year with much happiness. I want an SUV now. The X5 is so much more $$ than the Aviator. But maintenance is included in the X5. How much over 3 years will scheduled maintenance and oil changes, etc cost me at the Lincoln dealer? i'm trying to figure out the offsetting costs.

thanks in advance..

akirby · June 2005

Maintenance is included for the 1st year on the Aviator, so you only have to pay for the last 2 years. Other than oil changes the only major maintenance in 3 years should be a tranny flush (around $200) and even that is optional. Just oil and filters and you can get the oil changed anywhere - not just the dealer. I'd say for 2 years the most you'd pay for maintenance items is $500, and that's being generous.

Certainly not enough to offset the price difference. I've driven both, including a 4.6i X5 and I prefer the Aviator.

nvbanker · June 2005

I think you need to give the Aviator a thorough test drive, and then think about it for a few days, then go drive it again and decide. Because the two are really very different SUVs. I've driven them both quite a bit, but don't own either. The Aviator is extremely refined, easy to drive, extremely responsive to steering, acceleration, handling, etc. Offers American luxury amenities such as Air Conditioned seats, and a third row of seats, which fold pretty much flat to make a floor. The seat is usable for adults (I said usable, ok?). The engine is extremely powerful for the size of the motor, and the towing capacity of the vehicle is best in class. You can have 2WD or full time AWD.

The X-5 offers little of the above in features, and will handle much differently. You'll feel much more of the road in the ride with some of the BMW weight in the steering. You get bluetooth which is very nice, not available in the Lincoln (Grrrr) but you also only get a single CD player instead of a 6 CD changer. You get seating for only 5, not 7, and not much, if any towing capacity. You're in full time all wheel drive in the Bimmer.

Neither of these vehicles have distinguished themselves in the "maintenance free" department, with the X-5 up to over 18 recalls I think by now, and the Aviator being famous for failing differentials and what not, but both of them seem to have ironed out their wrinkles since introduction. Be aware though, that the current Aviator is about done with its run, and will be replaced with a new model in 2007, so if you buy one, you'll own a classic really soon, if that matters to you.

Personally, even if they were the same price, I'd buy the Aviator - I like it much better - but that's just my opinion. YMMV. :shades:

Lincoln Aviator Maintenance and Repair

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