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Toyota Tundra vs. Nissan Titan
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Comments
Do Tundras have problems stopping? No.
kip
ford f150 supercab 4x2 6.5' bed with the optional 5.4L is 1750 lbs. the actual standard payload for this truck is only 1530 lbs.
toyota is 1635 standard with v8.
dodge is only 1470 with the standard v8, and only goes up to 1690 with the hemi.
the chevy/gmc is also only 1475 with the standard v8...even less in the v6 model.
but the trend is that nissan beat everyone in standard payload. the optional equipment upgrades are just that...optional.
I guess it would be based more on real world experiences.
In my 2500HD, with a 2800 lb pallet of bricks over the back axle there's over 5" of spring left. If you add 500 lb of morter behind that you have less than 3" left, but if you move those same bags of morter in front of the pallet you still have almost 5" even though it's overloaded by over 300 lb including my weight.
Frankly I think every full-size pickup 1/2 ton should be capable of (and rated for) a 2000 lb. payload. I think 1400 - 1800 lb. payload ratings, which is where most full-size 1/2 tons fall into, is too low. Many small - mid-size trucks fall in that payload range, and I think every full-size truck should be rated well above those trucks.
Bob
In spite of your protests, you Nissan folks really are driving a Renault product. The" Datsun genes" are, unfortunately, long gone. It's no wonder those things are so darn ugly. Reliability probably won't be very pretty either.
The V8 belongs exclusively to Nissan and most of the shareing is Nissan parts in Renualt cars.
Says Renualt bought 44% of Nissan to improve Renualts, not Nissans.
When's toyota going to try to build a real work truck?
So far the only sharing is Nissan engines in Renualt cars and one "jointly engineered " platform that each will build it's own models on. The article also pointed out the dominance of Renualt diesels in europe. (soon to be Japan?)
It would probably be easier to spread b.s. by not posting accurate but contradictory info along with it.
Does that NASCAR "real truck" hual 2000lb?
good luck on this one now
BTW I've never owned a Nissan/Datsun. I have owned 8 Toyotas including the current one.
This is from the article you linked.
"Something more serious than 2000 lbs is being hualed"
That's the other kind of B.S. The PRODUCTION VERSION of tundra; you know the one they actually sell, don't impress speed enthusiasts or those who work for a living. I make enough to buy a base Tundra for half the people on my block but can't afford a NASCAR truck. Nor would I, or anybody else buy a Tundra to work.
EDIT: almost forgot to mention... you driven through Detroit or the northern cities yet? I never saw a single titan to speak of. If they're selling, I'd like to know who was buying.
A comparison of the two gives you one unknown/unproven newcomer (Titan), and one that is proven NOT to perform like a TRUCK(Tundra).
I agree with MEDIAMOGULX (#230) about Toyota's failure to produce a working truck but a lot of the full sized truck owners I've talked to want to know if the Titan can deliver what they want. We all know the Tundra can't. Toyota has been making "full sized" trucks for quite a few years now and the only thing they have proven is "THIS DOG WON'T HUNT"
mediamogul...
before you start spewing nonsense again, the 5.6 v8 is a bored and stroked 4.5l out of the q45. this v8 has been used for more than 15 years. nissan also has a VERY successful v8 diesel that is used everywhere EXCEPT the US.
I've worn out 2 F150s, a Ram 1500 and have over 60k on my GMC 2500HD since Toyota claimed to have a full sized truck on the market and I'm STILL waiting to see one that will WORK.
IF Titan can do it good for them. If not, so what. Toyota still doesn't and ANY newcomer to step up to the plate deserves to be looked at, even Daewoo, Kia or that company that Momar Kadafi is trying to start.(well, maybe not Kadafi)
Kia has very low prices and a great warrenty and if they offered good fleet deals on a new product it would sell.
Twenty years ago, nobody from Ford or GM thought they would be seeing big Isuzu trucks all over the country.
BTW; the two best off road vehicles I've owned were a Toyota truck and Landcruiser
I want you to read this article seriously and think about it. It's part opinion and part fact. Read it and give it some thought. I gotta tell ya, Ford and GM have definitely caught up. I recently attended the Cleveland Auto show and was blown away by both the ford and GM offerings. They're outstanding. The quality is DEFINITELY on the rise as well. Since the quality is on the rise, I would imagine that the American makers will return to the top of the pile very soon. That being said, I think that BOTH Toyota and Nissan are offering healthy competition. Their innovations are forcing the American guys to think on their feet. However, BOTH Toyota AND Nissan are light-years behind Ford and GM. Toyota makes an outstanding offroad vehicle. They are also at the end of the first line of the Tundra. With all the flack that has recently been flying around about its size and power, I think folks are wrong. As I have said... I know 2 people that own Tundras and 1 person that owns a Sequoia. I have driven all 3 trucks, and they are amazing. I have been in the Titan and Armada trucks, and to me (my opinion) the interior is just as lackluster as the exterior. The truck may be big, and it may have a bigger engine, but Toyota has a beeline on the styling. That line is only going to improve when they build the next Tundra. Remember... Nissan has watched Toyota Carefully throughout the Tundra life span. Before Toyota reached the end of the model run, Nissan built a bigger truck just to say "We're Better". Does this sound familiar? It's like the great engine race of the 60's. Ford and GM squared off and we ended up with 500+ Cubic inch big blocks. My point is that Nissan snuck a bigger truck in just to say we're better. Toyota already has an established consumer base. When they come out with the next model, I'm sure it will be bigger, haul more, and have a bigger engine. The truck that's out now isn't lacking. It's outstanding. What's more... if you're looking for space, get a Double cab. That sucker is HUGE! Nissan may have jumped the gun though, because they made a bigger truck with more oomph without starting smaller first. I hope it works out for them, but right now, quality and durability are unknown. As for Kia, they make very nice cars. I was most impressed by their new fullsize luxury car. I would be much more tempted by other vehicles, but I was indeed impressed. As to the Hypothetical fullsize truck, I really don't think Americans would buy it. I don't see that happening. Like you, they'd rather buy the big American Truck. That's my 2 Cents.
Tundra vs Titan? I test drove a Tundra in '00. It was comfortable but the small cockpit like interior of the "Access cab" had room for only two adults. The I-Force V8 had enough power for most situations. (Did I mention my GMCs 8.1)
I haven't seen a Titan up close but comparing my '95 Tacoma to a hunting partners '96 Nissan, both fully loaded-Toyota has a much more comfortable interior and there was a more solid feel to door handles, steering wheel, pedles, and shifter. The Nissan huals a lot more firewood without bottoming out and it's maybe a little better off road. On road it handles better but again it seems a little "cheap"
I agree that the American companies hold the top 3 spots but I still think that number 4 is up for grabs.
If this is GM quality then I want no part of it. The underpowered Tundra is just fine for me.
On the other hand, the truck that won't tow 8,000 lbs-EVER, or carry the ADVERTIZED payload evenly distributed in the bed-EVER, now THAT'S going to be a problem for everybody that NEEDS a truck.
I'm not slamming Toyota but it's not like they haven't had any recalls like Tundra brakes for instance. How can you toute "Toyota Quality" for a vehicle that was recalled for SAFTEY issues? My Taco had the clutch peddal spring bushing replaced TWICE in the 5 years I owned it. My '03 Corolla had a leaky windshield gasket. These problems are similar to the GM tailgate cable problem-a nuisance. It seems like theres a lot of Toyota owners out there overlooking Toyota's problems because there arent as many, but that does'nt mean there arent any problems, even dangerous ones.
Something that article fails to mention, andy71, is that the GM recall is the biggest in 23 years. That's OUTSTANDING quality as far as I'm concerned.
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gm19_20040319.htm
Now, as for your statement KG11:
"On the other hand, the truck that won't tow 8,000 lbs-EVER, or carry the ADVERTISED payload evenly distributed in the bed-EVER, now THAT'S going to be a problem for everybody that NEEDS a truck."
I have to say that I would like to know how many folks that own a Titan will ever expose it to that kind of payload? We've already established that the Titan apeals to a much smaller and more select group of people. How many folks truly tow that much?
THE FOLLOWING NUMBERS WERE RETRIEVED FROM EACH MANUFACTURER'S WEBSITE
Most folks are towing a boat, a car trailer, or a small utility trailer. The Tundra tows 5,100(Regular Bed)/6,900(Step Side). How much MORE do you really need to tow? More people are interested in the bed capacity - 1,525 Access Cab 1,325 Step Side VS Titan 1,585. That Number is MUCH closer and more useful. Folks will load that bed down with all kinds of crazy stuff MUCH more frequently. I seriously doubt that you'd notice 60 lbs difference in load, right? That basically puts the trucks about even as far as I'm concerned.
People who are looking to tow 8000 lbs will buy an American dualie quad-cab diesel V10. It makes more sense. To me, it's all a numbers war, and what looks good on paper doesn't necassarilly add up to more on the pavement. Again and as always... My $.02
Keep on truckin'
PF Flyer
Host
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"but the Tundra is more of a truck than the Titan. There is no evidence that proves that the Titan is any more of a truck than the tundra. Factory specs mean nothing. The proof is in the pudding. Toyota was confident enough of their V8 engine to take it to Nascar. How many V8's has Renault-Nissan made? Renault has already said that they show no interest in V8's. That leaves Nissan. Any V8 Experience there? Toyota has been making V8 engines for years."
Actually, Nissan has been making V8s since 1989 when they introduced the Infiniti Q45. And the NASCAR V8 that the Tundra uses is not even remotely related to the engine in the production Tundra. The NASCAR engine is a 355 cu. inch PUSHROD, OHV V8 that Toyota developed only for NASCAR racing.
Enough of the mid slinging. You are grossly misinformed and ignorant of the facts.
They've been running strong through the first 2 races. They've polled 1, and run in first for many laps in BOTH races. They nearly won both races as well. That says a whole lot for the manufacturer.
NO it isn't a production truck but it's still toyota research and development. What's more, (as evidenced my all of the great manufacturers like ferrari) racing herritage and R&D breeds better products on the streets. You yourself shoud WATCH the mud slinging. I'm not grossly misinformed, merely selective in how MUCH information I reveal at one time.
As to your reference to the infinity V8 - Woopty Do! Toyota, as I also have said, has been and is still putting a V12 (that's 12 cylinders) in it's flagship CROWN in Japan. They've also been putting V8's into the Japanese toyotas, European Toyotas, lexus sedans AND the lexus trucks. Toyota has put the V8 into many of its trucks as well, and time has proven it to be a strong, durable and powerful breed of motors. Those are facts. Toyota has more V8 and V12 experience than Nissan. Would you not agree? Especially in the area of trucks in which we are discussing at this time.
Now, bowke28, I would disagree with you on your statement. I have watched the comercials, I have seen the advertising, and I have been to the Cleveland Auto show. It's all geared directly at the big 3 with toyota as an afterthought. What's more, they (and all of you) keep bragging about how much bigger and stronger it is. If that's the case, then shouldn't we be comparing it to the bigger trucks, not the itty bitty pathetic 7/8ths sized tundra that is grossly underpowered?
Andy71, I'm not going to square off about what mags have been baught. This is not the place. I have no documented proof to offer. I would however tell you that it seems MOST evident to me. I know the associate producer of Motorweek. He receives numerous "insentives" to push certain cars. They'll give them test models and let them keep them and sell them. The car makers bend over backwards to get good reviews. It's all hearsay, just as movie critics reviews are hearsay. The only thing that counts is the word of mouth from people (see the Chevy Nomad http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autowe- ek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=02726009&Search_Type- =STD&Search_ID=1998405&record=1 ).
I have spent seat time in every manufacturer's vehicle. These are my opinions and facts that I have found. The best part of America is that you can buy whatever you want. I simply prefer to be a more informed, well balanced, and unbiased consumer.
Also, your assertion that Nissan's V8 experience is negated by a JDM V12 that Toyota makes is ridiculous. The Nissan V8 in the Titan is a powerhouse and a wonderful driving engine. That fact takes nothing away from Toyota.
regarding the big 3, the target is dodge. they have the lowest owner loyalty in the big 3, and the least volume. market share from ford or GM is not targeted, but they consider it gravy.
The Dodge RAM sold 486,000 units in 2003. Dakota was 134,000. The Tundra was 112,000.
One small correction: The V12 engine you are talking about is found in the Toyota Century not the Crown. The Century is Japan's answer to the Maybach. The Crown Majesta comes standard with the 4.0L 32 valve 270 Hp V8 that was in the previous Lexus LS 400.
The internet has created a large resource for people who might have skipped the research and headed down to the local dealer where he bought the last 3 vehicles.
The Big 3 are facing issues of quality and productivity vs. cutting fat to increase (or create) a profit.
They are modeling after Nissan and Toyota factories and hope to be at their level in 5-7 years.
Nissan did their research for the past 5 years - to find out exactly what Joe-six-pack felt he wanted in a pickup truck...
And what type of truck would it take to impress him - and the wife and kids...