Toyota Tundra vs. Nissan Titan

iowabigguy · March 2004

Because they keep the cost down!

sc0rpi0 · March 2004

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Do Tundras have problems stopping? No.

bowke28 · March 2004

the titan does not have the lowest payload if you are comparing apples to apples. every truck that has more payload has to have some payload package added to a regular cab. the titan's is standard with a king cab.

kg11 · March 2004

That info is not listed here on edmonds. I was surprized not to find a payload package in the options. I would expect a truck with a "BiG Tow" package of over 9k to have a real truck payload. I STILL want to know how it performs with a ton on the rear axle. The GMC is over 3 years old and I might switch to a half ton if it's comfortable and can tow my 7200lb boat up a hill faster than a tricycle.

kip

bowke28 · March 2004

titan 2WD in either king or crew cab is 1640 lbs.

ford f150 supercab 4x2 6.5' bed with the optional 5.4L is 1750 lbs. the actual standard payload for this truck is only 1530 lbs.

toyota is 1635 standard with v8.

dodge is only 1470 with the standard v8, and only goes up to 1690 with the hemi.

the chevy/gmc is also only 1475 with the standard v8...even less in the v6 model.

but the trend is that nissan beat everyone in standard payload. the optional equipment upgrades are just that...optional.

obyone · March 2004

was if at or near the 1640#, with the weight primarily over the rear wheels, would it be sitting on its jounce bumpers or would there be enough spring travel to accomodate the rated weight. The reason the question was asked is that the answer for the Tundra is already known. Only question remaining is if the Nissan rates its maximum load capacity based on the rating of its jounce bumpers.

I guess it would be based more on real world experiences.

bowke28 · March 2004

but i dont think a manufacturer would inflate a payload rating if it wasnt safe. max payload must leave enough spring travel to drive safely. this is a NHTSA requirement. i dont know the exact rule, but they do govern it.

kg11 · March 2004

You just have to be careful about where you carry it. If your 1800 lb is in the cab or just behind it the ride is fine. Remember, part of that load rating is passengers.

In my 2500HD, with a 2800 lb pallet of bricks over the back axle there's over 5" of spring left. If you add 500 lb of morter behind that you have less than 3" left, but if you move those same bags of morter in front of the pallet you still have almost 5" even though it's overloaded by over 300 lb including my weight.

rsholland · March 2004

is that the Titan's payload rating is a bit conservative. Maybe Nissan just wants to get a year or so of real-life truck living under its belt before giving higher payload rating.

Frankly I think every full-size pickup 1/2 ton should be capable of (and rated for) a 2000 lb. payload. I think 1400 - 1800 lb. payload ratings, which is where most full-size 1/2 tons fall into, is too low. Many small - mid-size trucks fall in that payload range, and I think every full-size truck should be rated well above those trucks.

Bob

toetruck · March 2004

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/ren17_20040317.htm

In spite of your protests, you Nissan folks really are driving a Renault product. The" Datsun genes" are, unfortunately, long gone. It's no wonder those things are so darn ugly. Reliability probably won't be very pretty either.

kg11 · March 2004

It says you're F.O.S.

The V8 belongs exclusively to Nissan and most of the shareing is Nissan parts in Renualt cars.

Says Renualt bought 44% of Nissan to improve Renualts, not Nissans.

When's toyota going to try to build a real work truck?

toetruck · March 2004

You are correct, if just buy the V8 engine in a crate then you've got a "real" Nissan. I know the truth is sometimes painful but read'em and weep, my friend . Real trucks ? See'ya at NASCAR.

kg11 · March 2004

The article says Renualt doesn't make, or have plans to make a full sized pick-up.

So far the only sharing is Nissan engines in Renualt cars and one "jointly engineered " platform that each will build it's own models on. The article also pointed out the dominance of Renualt diesels in europe. (soon to be Japan?)

It would probably be easier to spread b.s. by not posting accurate but contradictory info along with it.

Does that NASCAR "real truck" hual 2000lb?
good luck on this one now

BTW I've never owned a Nissan/Datsun. I have owned 8 Toyotas including the current one.

hairong · March 2004

toetruck, do you know how to read???

This is from the article you linked.

The companies have started sharing the basic engineering of nearly all their cars, engines, transmissions and other components, Schweitzer said. Vehicles that sell well only in a single part of the world like the Titan may remain the sole province of either Nissan or Renault, he said.

toetruck · March 2004

"The companies have started sharing the basic engineering of nearly all thier cars,engines,transmissions and other components" looks like English to me. Three Tundras in last Saturday's top five means something more serious than 2000 lbs. is being hauled!

kg11 · March 2004

The article clearly states the exclusivness of the entire Titan, and although they are "sharing the basic engineering of nearly all..." only ONE PLATFORM and a v6 engine is currently used by both and it's NOT the Titan.

"Something more serious than 2000 lbs is being hualed"

That's the other kind of B.S. The PRODUCTION VERSION of tundra; you know the one they actually sell, don't impress speed enthusiasts or those who work for a living. I make enough to buy a base Tundra for half the people on my block but can't afford a NASCAR truck. Nor would I, or anybody else buy a Tundra to work.

kurt123 · March 2004

would even CONSIDER entering an UN-HOLY alliance with a French(those two-faced little panzies whose ASSES we helped save during WWII, and vote against and protest against everything Amercia does at every turn!)company who sells a PIECE of CRAP like Renaults in the first place, and as for the question of when will Toyota build a "REAL" work truck, it's just a matter of time! I'm sure toyota can trump anything Nissan makes and if I'm not mistaken, isn't the Tundra's payload HIGHER than the Titan?,(in the neighborhood of 1800 LBS) with the V8? OK, so the Titan can tow 9400 LBS, but why can it only haul in the neighborhood of 1600 LBS? Hmmm!!

toetruck · March 2004

Kurt123 Right on! / kg11 I've read 227 about six times and ?

mediamogulx · March 2004

I think you're all peddling Smack! Either that, or the "recreational pharmaceuticals" you're on must be pretty good. Nissan will never sell well in the American Market. That's a period. The truck isn't serious. That's obvious. Nissan has nothing on Ford or GM. Ford has the #1 spot for full-sized trucks, and that's for a reason. The New F150 is top dog by a long shot. No one knows better than Americans how to build big, heavy, gas guzzling, house pulling, monster work trucks. The only folks who will buy the Titan are the poor saps who already own a Nissan. Toyota never went for the American jugular. That was obvious from the T100. They simply build a bigger truck for folks who already like Toyota. Sure they're hoping to capture more market share, but there's no way that they (the #3 auto maker in the US) will catch Ford or GM. Nissan (Ranked?) is even farther behind than toyota! They sell to a select clientele. I've talked to people from coast to coast about fullsize trucks. Dozens of people. I've asked them what they would buy for a work truck (these folks range from blue collar to white collar) and all responded "the new F150". I asked about the Titan and they scrunched their faces. Trust me folks... Toyota is outselling Nissan with the "7/8's" sized Tundra. Even if Nissan had prospects of outselling Toyota, they could never compete with the Heritage and quality of the Ford and GM Fullsize trucks. That's just the way it is.

EDIT: almost forgot to mention... you driven through Detroit or the northern cities yet? I never saw a single titan to speak of. If they're selling, I'd like to know who was buying.

kg11 · March 2004

My point is, you come here babbleing about NASCAR Tundras and shared engineering that is not on the market yet when the topic is about two real world vehicles.
A comparison of the two gives you one unknown/unproven newcomer (Titan), and one that is proven NOT to perform like a TRUCK(Tundra).
I agree with MEDIAMOGULX (#230) about Toyota's failure to produce a working truck but a lot of the full sized truck owners I've talked to want to know if the Titan can deliver what they want. We all know the Tundra can't. Toyota has been making "full sized" trucks for quite a few years now and the only thing they have proven is "THIS DOG WON'T HUNT"

mediamogulx · March 2004

but the Tundra is more of a truck than the Titan. There is no evidence that proves that the Titan is any more of a truck than the tundra. Factory specs mean nothing. The proof is in the pudding. Toyota was confident enough of their V8 engine to take it to Nascar. How many V8's has Renault-Nissan made? Renault has already said that they show no interest in V8's. That leaves Nissan. Any V8 Experience there? Toyota has been making V8 engines for years. As a matter of fact, the CROWN is a V12 flagship in Japan. No matter what the engine size, people will buy the toyota over the nissan simply because Toyota has proven they can build it. Nissan has no experience. That's the same reason that people will buy the Fords and GM's over the foreign makers. They've been around longer and proven themselves. No matter what Nissan does, they'll always be playing catchup to Toyota - Even if they have a bigger motor and more towing capacity.

nds · March 2004

The Japanese have quietly taken a major share of the light to medium duty commercial truck market. Next time you are downtown take a look at the Nissan/UD, Toyota/Hino, Isuzu and Mitsubishi delivery trucks in many areas they have over half the market.

usmc0802 · March 2004

I am on leave in Norfolk, VA this week; in the local newspaper a couple of days ago, they ran an article about full-size truck sales in the U.S. for 2003. The article was of interest to the local community, as there is a F-150 plant nearby. Rough numbers from the article: F-150 had the big lead w/ several hundred thousand, then the others US brands (Dodge, Chevy, GMC). Tundra did just under 100,000, then most interesting to me, was the Titan at around 84,000. I could be wrong, but the Titan didn't go on sale until Dec 1st, so they sold almost as many Titans in one month as Toyota sold Tundras for 12?????

bowke28 · March 2004

those numbers are for "light trucks", which include SUVs, small pickups, and minivans.

mediamogul...

before you start spewing nonsense again, the 5.6 v8 is a bored and stroked 4.5l out of the q45. this v8 has been used for more than 15 years. nissan also has a VERY successful v8 diesel that is used everywhere EXCEPT the US.

usmc0802 · March 2004

then Nissan should talk to the newspaper, as it specifically said "Nissan Titan". That makes me wonder what else they got wrong

kg11 · March 2004

Yes, I've said there's no evidence that Titan is more of a truck than Tundra. I also said, as you have that Tundra falls far short when compared to Ford, Dodge and GM. There's no evidence AT ALL about Titan's ability to do work. I don't know anybody that owns one and haven't heard any claims by owners.
I've worn out 2 F150s, a Ram 1500 and have over 60k on my GMC 2500HD since Toyota claimed to have a full sized truck on the market and I'm STILL waiting to see one that will WORK.
IF Titan can do it good for them. If not, so what. Toyota still doesn't and ANY newcomer to step up to the plate deserves to be looked at, even Daewoo, Kia or that company that Momar Kadafi is trying to start.(well, maybe not Kadafi)

mediamogulx · March 2004

Kia? Do you think any self respecting man would buy a Kia Full sized truck? That's laughable! LOL! I'm not attempting to degrade you by any means, that's just a funny statement. Now, as for the Toyota... It's no slouch. I know 3 people that own them. They're all VERY nice trucks that will do just about anything you need them to do. HOWEVER, they aren't showing up in the hands of folks around construction sites. In the same way, the Nissan isn't doing it either. People are too afraid of scratching the paint on their precious new truck. What's more, the American trucks offer great fleet deals. I don't suspect you'll see Titans OR Tundras on the work site any time soon. Irregardless of which one is better, Americans want American trucks. Neither Nissan nor Toyota (no matter how good the offering) has what it takes to build a truck to compete with Ford and GM. Since you've owned neither a toyota nor a nissan fullsize truck, I think you, most of all, would sympathize with that. Toyota, on the other hand, shows the greatest potential to make a great truck. Their designs are simple, and their plan is steady and sure. They've entered the heart of detroit by entering NASCAR, and what's more, they're doing VERY well. Toyota has the money to do it right, and their plan is always slow and steady. When the next Tundra hits the market, the Nissan guys are gonna be sweating. I know this because of Toyota's strategy since day 1. They don't jump the gun. They take their time and build up. We'll see who wins in the end - Nissan or Toyota, but I gotta tell you, that's as far as that battle will go. Ford and GM have WAY too much tied up in their trucks to see the heritage destroyed by foreign companies. Their trucks are their bread and butter.

kg11 · March 2004

How so? It's widely believed that Toyota quality is superior to Ford and Chevy but we keep buying Fords and Chevies don't we? It's not cuz we hate the [non-permissible content removed] and it's not cuz we don't know quality. It IS because we want something that can do the job without costing too much for what they can do.If Toyota understood this thier first TWO attempts would have been a little more workable. The first foreign manufacturer to produce what we are NOW BUYING will out sell Toyota.
Kia has very low prices and a great warrenty and if they offered good fleet deals on a new product it would sell.
Twenty years ago, nobody from Ford or GM thought they would be seeing big Isuzu trucks all over the country.

BTW; the two best off road vehicles I've owned were a Toyota truck and Landcruiser

mediamogulx · March 2004

http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant

I want you to read this article seriously and think about it. It's part opinion and part fact. Read it and give it some thought. I gotta tell ya, Ford and GM have definitely caught up. I recently attended the Cleveland Auto show and was blown away by both the ford and GM offerings. They're outstanding. The quality is DEFINITELY on the rise as well. Since the quality is on the rise, I would imagine that the American makers will return to the top of the pile very soon. That being said, I think that BOTH Toyota and Nissan are offering healthy competition. Their innovations are forcing the American guys to think on their feet. However, BOTH Toyota AND Nissan are light-years behind Ford and GM. Toyota makes an outstanding offroad vehicle. They are also at the end of the first line of the Tundra. With all the flack that has recently been flying around about its size and power, I think folks are wrong. As I have said... I know 2 people that own Tundras and 1 person that owns a Sequoia. I have driven all 3 trucks, and they are amazing. I have been in the Titan and Armada trucks, and to me (my opinion) the interior is just as lackluster as the exterior. The truck may be big, and it may have a bigger engine, but Toyota has a beeline on the styling. That line is only going to improve when they build the next Tundra. Remember... Nissan has watched Toyota Carefully throughout the Tundra life span. Before Toyota reached the end of the model run, Nissan built a bigger truck just to say "We're Better". Does this sound familiar? It's like the great engine race of the 60's. Ford and GM squared off and we ended up with 500+ Cubic inch big blocks. My point is that Nissan snuck a bigger truck in just to say we're better. Toyota already has an established consumer base. When they come out with the next model, I'm sure it will be bigger, haul more, and have a bigger engine. The truck that's out now isn't lacking. It's outstanding. What's more... if you're looking for space, get a Double cab. That sucker is HUGE! Nissan may have jumped the gun though, because they made a bigger truck with more oomph without starting smaller first. I hope it works out for them, but right now, quality and durability are unknown. As for Kia, they make very nice cars. I was most impressed by their new fullsize luxury car. I would be much more tempted by other vehicles, but I was indeed impressed. As to the Hypothetical fullsize truck, I really don't think Americans would buy it. I don't see that happening. Like you, they'd rather buy the big American Truck. That's my 2 Cents.

kg11 · March 2004

Especially compared to ANYTHING built before the '90s.

Tundra vs Titan? I test drove a Tundra in '00. It was comfortable but the small cockpit like interior of the "Access cab" had room for only two adults. The I-Force V8 had enough power for most situations. (Did I mention my GMCs 8.1)
I haven't seen a Titan up close but comparing my '95 Tacoma to a hunting partners '96 Nissan, both fully loaded-Toyota has a much more comfortable interior and there was a more solid feel to door handles, steering wheel, pedles, and shifter. The Nissan huals a lot more firewood without bottoming out and it's maybe a little better off road. On road it handles better but again it seems a little "cheap"

I agree that the American companies hold the top 3 spots but I still think that number 4 is up for grabs.

mediamogulx · March 2004

I Agree whole heartedly there. NOW You're talking my language. The 8.1 in your GMC is why the foreign makers are still considerably far behind. They may make big motors, but until they start producing stuff like that - diesels, and dualies, they'll always be sub par. I also agree about the Toyota quality. The feel of the trucks is much nicer. The Titan does have more room. That spot is still wide open though, and what's going to be REALLY interesting to watch is when Toyota comes out with their new Tundra (due VERY soon).

andy71 · March 2004

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040318/ap- _on_re_us/gm_recall_4

If this is GM quality then I want no part of it. The underpowered Tundra is just fine for me.

kg11 · March 2004

My '95 Tacoma 3.4 V6 was recalled for the same head gasket problem they recalled earlier 3.0 V6s for, but it didn't keep me from buying an '03 Corolla.

On the other hand, the truck that won't tow 8,000 lbs-EVER, or carry the ADVERTIZED payload evenly distributed in the bed-EVER, now THAT'S going to be a problem for everybody that NEEDS a truck.

I'm not slamming Toyota but it's not like they haven't had any recalls like Tundra brakes for instance. How can you toute "Toyota Quality" for a vehicle that was recalled for SAFTEY issues? My Taco had the clutch peddal spring bushing replaced TWICE in the 5 years I owned it. My '03 Corolla had a leaky windshield gasket. These problems are similar to the GM tailgate cable problem-a nuisance. It seems like theres a lot of Toyota owners out there overlooking Toyota's problems because there arent as many, but that does'nt mean there arent any problems, even dangerous ones.

mediamogulx · March 2004

There is no car company that can be perfect. That's for certain. Toyota does an outstanding job on their quality, and as a matter of fact, GM has been working VERY closely with toyota in the past decades. They've learned a lot. I know EXACTLY the problem you're talking about KG11. That head gasket problem was nasty. However, they had a quick fix, as GM does now and things worked great after that.
Something that article fails to mention, andy71, is that the GM recall is the biggest in 23 years. That's OUTSTANDING quality as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gm19_20040319.htm

Now, as for your statement KG11:

"On the other hand, the truck that won't tow 8,000 lbs-EVER, or carry the ADVERTISED payload evenly distributed in the bed-EVER, now THAT'S going to be a problem for everybody that NEEDS a truck."

I have to say that I would like to know how many folks that own a Titan will ever expose it to that kind of payload? We've already established that the Titan apeals to a much smaller and more select group of people. How many folks truly tow that much?

THE FOLLOWING NUMBERS WERE RETRIEVED FROM EACH MANUFACTURER'S WEBSITE

Most folks are towing a boat, a car trailer, or a small utility trailer. The Tundra tows 5,100(Regular Bed)/6,900(Step Side). How much MORE do you really need to tow? More people are interested in the bed capacity - 1,525 Access Cab 1,325 Step Side VS Titan 1,585. That Number is MUCH closer and more useful. Folks will load that bed down with all kinds of crazy stuff MUCH more frequently. I seriously doubt that you'd notice 60 lbs difference in load, right? That basically puts the trucks about even as far as I'm concerned.

People who are looking to tow 8000 lbs will buy an American dualie quad-cab diesel V10. It makes more sense. To me, it's all a numbers war, and what looks good on paper doesn't necassarilly add up to more on the pavement. Again and as always... My $.02

jochua48 · March 2004

This is supposed to be a Tundra vs Titan debate. So, you guys pushing the big-three should push it onto another message board. The big three quality sucks (Dodge & GM sucks ALOT more than Ford). Just open up a consumer reports and let them break the news to you.

PF_Flyer · March 2004

It IS easy to wander off topic at times. Just remember to glance up at the topic titles now and then. Sort of like checking the rearview mirror!

Keep on truckin'

PF Flyer
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mediamogulx · March 2004

I think I've stayed on target with my discussions and kept it all relevant. If you read each of my posts, they use the big 3 as a jumping point. It's all increadibly relevant in comparing the quality and desirability of both the Nissan truck AND the Toyota truck. ESPECIALLY since these are fullsize trucks, and ESPECIALLY since Nissan has set its sights square on the big 3. It is only natural to include them in the discussion for comparison. As for their quality, jochua48, that IS another topic all togeather, but I have already made references to articles that will prove you wrong. I don't trust most car rags any more than I trust movie critics. Each one gives a different opintion and most hate anything American (They prefer German or Japanese). They can easilly be baught as well.

andy71 · March 2004

Do you have any evidence that the imports are paying car rags to get good ratings? If you do, I would like to know. Just because they have rated the domestics lower than the Japanese doesn't mean they are being bribed. Consumer Reports is a very well respected organization and for the most part they do a great job of predicting long term reliability. I am not bashing the big three. In fact, I think the redesigned F150 is an outstanding truck. Roomy, smooth, refined not as powerful as the competitors but certainly can get the job done when it comes to towing. Chevy and Dodge still stinks

bowke28 · March 2004

are not on the "big 3". the target market is that of dodge and toyota. the nissan big-whigs arent stupid enough to believe they can put a dent in ford or chevy. but dodge sells ~200k units a year, and toyota is around 100k. these are reasonable targets.

1997montez34 · March 2004

You wrote:

"but the Tundra is more of a truck than the Titan. There is no evidence that proves that the Titan is any more of a truck than the tundra. Factory specs mean nothing. The proof is in the pudding. Toyota was confident enough of their V8 engine to take it to Nascar. How many V8's has Renault-Nissan made? Renault has already said that they show no interest in V8's. That leaves Nissan. Any V8 Experience there? Toyota has been making V8 engines for years."

Actually, Nissan has been making V8s since 1989 when they introduced the Infiniti Q45. And the NASCAR V8 that the Tundra uses is not even remotely related to the engine in the production Tundra. The NASCAR engine is a 355 cu. inch PUSHROD, OHV V8 that Toyota developed only for NASCAR racing.

Enough of the mid slinging. You are grossly misinformed and ignorant of the facts.

mediamogulx · March 2004

Ease up there 1997montez34. You might check your anger yourself. I am fully aware of the fact that the NASCAR Race motor is a one of a kind push rod motor. It was designed in whole by TRD. It is NOT the production motor in the Tundra truck (DUUUUH). However, Toyota is the only foregin manufacturer putting money into these types of racing outlets. They BUILT a race application motor from SCRATCH. This isn't a borrowed motor.

They've been running strong through the first 2 races. They've polled 1, and run in first for many laps in BOTH races. They nearly won both races as well. That says a whole lot for the manufacturer.

NO it isn't a production truck but it's still toyota research and development. What's more, (as evidenced my all of the great manufacturers like ferrari) racing herritage and R&D breeds better products on the streets. You yourself shoud WATCH the mud slinging. I'm not grossly misinformed, merely selective in how MUCH information I reveal at one time.

As to your reference to the infinity V8 - Woopty Do! Toyota, as I also have said, has been and is still putting a V12 (that's 12 cylinders) in it's flagship CROWN in Japan. They've also been putting V8's into the Japanese toyotas, European Toyotas, lexus sedans AND the lexus trucks. Toyota has put the V8 into many of its trucks as well, and time has proven it to be a strong, durable and powerful breed of motors. Those are facts. Toyota has more V8 and V12 experience than Nissan. Would you not agree? Especially in the area of trucks in which we are discussing at this time.

Now, bowke28, I would disagree with you on your statement. I have watched the comercials, I have seen the advertising, and I have been to the Cleveland Auto show. It's all geared directly at the big 3 with toyota as an afterthought. What's more, they (and all of you) keep bragging about how much bigger and stronger it is. If that's the case, then shouldn't we be comparing it to the bigger trucks, not the itty bitty pathetic 7/8ths sized tundra that is grossly underpowered?

Andy71, I'm not going to square off about what mags have been baught. This is not the place. I have no documented proof to offer. I would however tell you that it seems MOST evident to me. I know the associate producer of Motorweek. He receives numerous "insentives" to push certain cars. They'll give them test models and let them keep them and sell them. The car makers bend over backwards to get good reviews. It's all hearsay, just as movie critics reviews are hearsay. The only thing that counts is the word of mouth from people (see the Chevy Nomad http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autowe- ek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=02726009&Search_Type- =STD&Search_ID=1998405&record=1 ).

I have spent seat time in every manufacturer's vehicle. These are my opinions and facts that I have found. The best part of America is that you can buy whatever you want. I simply prefer to be a more informed, well balanced, and unbiased consumer.

1997montez34 · March 2004

I am actually pulling for Toyota in the Craftsman Truck Series. I never said it was a borrowed motor. Just that it's not the production engine, so your statement that they were "confident enough in their V8 to take it to NASCAR" is way off base. One has nothing to do with the other.

Also, your assertion that Nissan's V8 experience is negated by a JDM V12 that Toyota makes is ridiculous. The Nissan V8 in the Titan is a powerhouse and a wonderful driving engine. That fact takes nothing away from Toyota.

bowke28 · March 2004

market research has proven that "most" tundra owners will shop the tundra with the titan next time simply because they are both imports. some will buy nissan, and some will buy toyota...but no matter how many buy nissan, its ALL market penetration.

regarding the big 3, the target is dodge. they have the lowest owner loyalty in the big 3, and the least volume. market share from ford or GM is not targeted, but they consider it gravy.

dustyk · March 2004

>>>...but dodge sells ~200k units a year, and toyota is around 100k<<<

The Dodge RAM sold 486,000 units in 2003. Dakota was 134,000. The Tundra was 112,000.

andy71 · March 2004

I apologize if my last post was a bit harsh. I didn't mean to offend you in anyway. All I was saying that I know for a fact that Consumer Reports don't accept advertising or any other revenues from automakers. Their findings are reported throughout the major medias and every automakers these days try very hard to get a good rating from CR. In fact, CR is the reason Asian car makers have been increasing their market share in the USA. I am glad you actually like the Tundra. My cousin owns a 2001 SR5 V8 which I occasionally borrow to carry my riding mower for servicing. I think for 90% of pickup truck owners, the Tundra's hauling and towing capability should be more than enough. As far as the Titan goes, the spec's certainly look impressive. Only time will tell how it will hold up against the competition.

One small correction: The V12 engine you are talking about is found in the Toyota Century not the Crown. The Century is Japan's answer to the Maybach. The Crown Majesta comes standard with the 4.0L 32 valve 270 Hp V8 that was in the previous Lexus LS 400.

bowke28 · March 2004

where do you get these figures?

dadoftay · March 2004

I read an article in a magazine describing how neither the Tundra nor the Titan was going to do well because "the large majority of truck buyers were brand loyal". It seems that I see more and more of these trucks "no one wants" on the road everyday. Me, I like the Titan- hey I'm a home center on the weekend with the wife kinda guy. The 5' bed is fine behind the four doors for the kids. I can't afford a boat to haul, anyway. It just seems to me these no-haulin, can't tow anything rigs are at the beginning of making a substantial run at the big boys.

bearbrawn · March 2004

I believe in brand loyalty - but a large purchase like a new vehicle requires some intelligent research.

The internet has created a large resource for people who might have skipped the research and headed down to the local dealer where he bought the last 3 vehicles.

The Big 3 are facing issues of quality and productivity vs. cutting fat to increase (or create) a profit.

They are modeling after Nissan and Toyota factories and hope to be at their level in 5-7 years.

Nissan did their research for the past 5 years - to find out exactly what Joe-six-pack felt he wanted in a pickup truck...

And what type of truck would it take to impress him - and the wife and kids...

toetruck · March 2004

http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0403/30/c01-107145.htm As I said back in December, the operative word is "controlling". Nissan (Titan)fans better brush up on your Francais! If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ,it's a duck. Oui?

nds · March 2004

The Japanese trucks may be better quality than the big 3 but if something does go wrong out of warranty it is pay back time. We bought new Tundra in 2000 that was recently replaced with Camry. While we had no major problems with truck the cost of replacing oxygen sensors (mostly under warranty) exceeded the total non routine maintenance cost of my old 1987 Chevrolet that I have driven for 17 years.

Toyota Tundra vs. Nissan Titan

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