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Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan 2005+

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Comments

  • jstaubjstaub Member Posts: 1
    I have the same problem in my '05 T/C. eBay has a lot of replacements around $250-350. My problem is part number crossover. Does anyone know how to check part numbers?
  • yetiman410yetiman410 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2005 T&C with a navigation system that has been flaky for quite a while now. Often when driving down the highway, the map display will spin around in circles. Sometimes it will correct itself, but usually it won't, rendering the system useless. Further, it sometimes does not detect when a turn has been made. I can drive straight down a major road, turn onto another road, and the map display will continue on down the road I was previously on. This is not very useful as it happens A LOT!

    I have asked the dealership here to look at it a number of times, and, of course, they can never reproduce the problems so they send me on my way, usually with an explanation that these things happen in the city or in deep canyons. So, this week I took video of the spinning map display and pictures of the wide-open desert surrounding me (no canyon, no city) and took them into the dealership. That got their attention, so they checked for software updates, etc. and "talked to engineering on the East coast".

    After all that the dealership said that Chrysler will not replace the part because that's how it's supposed to work. The explanation being that the spinning map is a recalibration cycle done by the system when it loses contact with the satellite. If so, the system sure loses contact with the satellite a lot!

    That option cost a lot of money, and it does not work very well at all! Has anyone seen this behavior in the navigation system? Could the problems be due to geography (I'm in Idaho)? Does anyone have a contact higher up in Chrysler that I could communicate this issue to?
  • playtimeplaytime Member Posts: 12
    My last 3 Dodge Caravans and my present 05 T and C all have had the same personallity. I don't call it a problem because look at it this way "when you fill a glass up to the top "the rim" its full so you don't keep trying to keep getting more into it do you? When some vehicals cause the pump nozzle to shut off its because not only is the tank full but the filler hose from the tank is also full. There is a reason for this and that is it allows for expansion of the gasoline on a hot day other wise you would have to much gas pressure in the fuel tank and I have seen some plastic gas tanks expand to over 1/3 larger then they should be plus gas coming from the under ground storage tanks depending on the area of the country about can be 10-15 degrees cooler then the above ground temperture and in some area's it can be as much as 40 degree's difference so the fuel in your tank will expand quite a bit. Hey when its full its full. There is a safty factor designed it I remember when vented systems were used and people took the gas cap off and it went flying out of their hand along with a loud hissing sound because of the pressure that had built up in the gas tank. Some people keep trying to get that last drop of coffee in the cup only to realize when the cup looks full its must be full and there is no reason to get burned so some of them accept the fact that enough is just that........... cheers
  • billwfriendbillwfriend Member Posts: 44
    Tomorrow I'm picking up an 06 SE with 29k miles with a manufacture date of 6/06 for $13,500.

    Instead of the storage nook under the dash cup holders, it's got a plastic cover for a computer that's taking up that space. Is that the computer for the Sirius Satellite radio?

    Also, has anyone found any cheap floot consoles to put in between the driver and passenger seats?
  • 85shelbycharge85shelbycharge Member Posts: 1
    My dad just bought a 2005 Town & Country. It came with the single disc CD player and we are trying to install the cd player that goes with a 6 disc cd changer. After plugging in the new radio, it begins to blink and flicker like it's trying to spit a cd out or something. This occurs before we even turn the key to the power position. Is this normal? Help!
  • davejwalkerdavejwalker Member Posts: 1
    We are considering purchasing a used 06 Grand caravan some time soon and my wife lives the integrated child seats in our 2000 caravan, But I haven't been able to find this option in an 06 Grand Caravan SXT. Is there any chance of replacing the 2nd row bucket seats with a bench seat that has built in child seats?
  • playtimeplaytime Member Posts: 12
    Have you contacted your service manager at a near by dealership or whom ever you purchased the player from? The reason might be the computor has to be reset for the change to the system. The radio's and and some other things have a security codes that renders it useless if it is messed with so its possible the security feature is reading a bad code such as your radio has been stolen and is now in a different vehical even though it has never left the van it came in. Some newer vehicals have similer features to keep or hinder people from stealing idems such as the radio to keep theft down. I have a 2005 T & C and my I know that in some cases you can not even add fog lights without changing the security codes or the computor settings on some of the Chrysler vehicals. Just a thought and I hope it helps you.....cheers
  • playtimeplaytime Member Posts: 12
    Would you describe the way your transmission was acting that made you aware that there was a problem with it-was it the way it shifted-noise from it-did the transmission slip while trying to back up? The reason I am asking is this could really help alot of Chrysler customers to be on the look out for your type of problem or problems so they can have it fixed before their warrenty runs out. Plus the exhaust the same thing - was it really loud like a hot rod car or did it sound like it was loose just how did it sound other then a put put sound? I now think everyone should check those area's that you found your paint to be bad they might have some rust that they are not even aware of like people whom live in states that use salt or people that live near the ocean that a breeze carries salt air into their vans. Plus I do know it proper for a dealership to rebuild transmissions instead of installing a new one regardless of the brand that the vehical. Its so much cheaper and if they have a bad run of transmissions you might end up with the same problem. It sounds to me like the mechanic needed to go back to school and learn how to rebuild a transmission all over again normally a rebuilt trans is better then a new one because it being given special treatment by just one person instead of a trans thats been assembled going down an assembly line. I know my 2005 exhaust had to be worked on but it was only a defective exhaust pipe clamp that needed replacing. Plus I find it some what interesting that you didn't like your dealership but yet when the one gentleman asked you the name of it and what the codes meant you refused to tell him if a dealership treated me as bad as yours did I wouldn't be worried about protecting it at all the news needs to get around so others don't end up being subjected to what you went through with it along with sharing how you managed to get the codes and what they stand for you would be doing everyone a favor big time. Thanks and I hope you have better luck with your van now.......cheers
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    The integrated child seats are an option on the Grand Caravan SE. I doubt that bench would bolt into the Stow N Go mounts, but I have never actually seen that bench seat. Why do you want that seat?
  • rayzkainrayzkain Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2005 town and country lx. I'm having problems with my liftgate handle. I press the car lock twice to unlock the door, press the liftgate handle, but the door doesn't open. I here the handle click and nothing. I have to use the key every time to open it. Has anybody else had this problem? If so, please let me know how to fix it.
    thanx
  • gfloyd60gfloyd60 Member Posts: 1
    I recently bought a 2005 T&C Limited with 22,000 miles on it. Occasionally, when attempting to open a side door or the tailgate using the remote when the car is locked, the alarm will go off. If I unlock the van using the remote before opening the tailgate or side doors the alarm does not go off. Is this usual on these vehicles? I have found nothing in the owner's manual that indicates the vehicle must be unlocked before before opening the automatic doors/tailgate. Any advice would be welcome.
  • mtl1977mtl1977 Member Posts: 3
    ">I have a 2007 Grand Caravan SXT Special Edition...3.8L, 4-sp. The trans has the "shudder" issues mentioned above, a harsh downshift from 2->1. Its a 27 month lease, so I am not too concerned since it will always be in warranty.

    I also noticed an issue going from P->D or sometimes from P->N where it feels like the car is in second gear and the torque converter (T/C) is slipping close to stall speed. I was concerned the forward clutch was slipping. I have been monitoring the ATF which does not appear or smell burnt so maybe the issue is within the T/C.

    In the past, I noticed a buzzing noise from other Chrysler vehicles when they come to a stop. I noticed it in my car in the Taco Bell drive through the other day with the sound reflecting off the wall of the building. I also noticed it when coming to a stop during a 2->1 downshift with the window down. If you drive away in L and maintain first gear, it doesn't make the sound coming to a stop. I guess it is a solenoid in the trans (valve body), but man, its pretty freakin' loud.

    Just drove to Orlando, FL from Detroit in this van two weeks ago. It rocks as a long distance traveler. After 2615 miles, it was averaging 23.7 mpg. Not bad at 4200 lbs + three adults, baby, luggage, front and rear A/C running and the cruise set at 70-78 mph. The Stow-N-Go and overall packaging of the vehicle is great! The base Caravan I rented last year with the 3.3L only got 22 mpg. Yes, rental fleets do enhance consumer sales, I would have never considered a Caravan until I rented that stripped down model. The only complaint I have is the build quality - which is surprisingly worse than that of my Ford Rouge Plant built 2004 Mustang GT Conv.

    I have never done a trip like this without a map. The nav system in this van, while being of prehistoric design, works sweet. The only real issues - NavTec needs to update the map listing for a Taco Bell in Columbia, SC - the nav system took me to one that has been closed for several years. And my hotel in Chattanooga, TN was on the east side of I-75, but the nav system had me driving in circles on the west side. Finding the next Subway off of the freeway at 78 mph was super easy. Getting through the points of interest to add to the address book is also very easy...site-seeing in Lexington, KY, SeaWorld, Animal Kingdom, the timeshare condo...

    Road noise is excellent in the back seat. With my head over the rear wheelwells, I can't believe how little noise comes through. Wind noise is about average. Makes my 2005 F-150 seem like a Town Car.

    The 62-watt 6-speaker audio system SUCKS! At max volume and the windows down, good luck hearing anything on the freeway. With the 6-disc DVD changer and nav system, the only way to upgrade power is to add a speaker level input amp(s). Definitely going to make sure the next van has the premium system.

    I need to find a rear sway bar for this thing too. Maybe the T&C Touring suspension or towing package(?) one is readily available.

    PS - I'm an automatic transmission engineer for a major tier one supplier from Detroit. This is my first non-Ford vehicle. It will almost definitely be replaced with a 2009MY Grand Caravan, 3/16/09 when my current lease ends. The new ones looks sweet. Too bad you can't Swivel-N-Stow. But they did add power opening sliding door windows. Very nice.

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  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    I believe this to be normal. We have an 01 DGC EX, with the dealership alarm installed. If we open the rear liftgate or sliding door, without pressing the unlock button on the keyfob first, the alarm will sound. (The alarm can only be disarmed with the unlock button on the keyfob.) I hope this helps. ;)
  • heavydoeheavydoe Member Posts: 10
    I have a 2005 Dodge that does this with the lift gate which started about 8-9 months ago. The guys over at John Elway Dodge said that it is not suppose to do this. As usual they cannot duplicate the problem when they have it so they don't know what is causing it.
  • coach_tdcoach_td Member Posts: 4
    Hi,

    I have a 2005 T & C touring. I am looking for the in cabin air filter. I read online about it being on the passenger side below the glove box but not sure if it is different model year. I have looked under there and tried to find it but no luck. Does the 2005 have one?? Thanks
  • cbwilshacbwilsha Member Posts: 70
    See page 372 of your Owners Manual "A/C Filter".

    C.B.
  • chryslerownerchryslerowner Member Posts: 1
    you SHOULD be concerned about mechanical failure. it happened to me in my 2005 town and country and i was never more scared in my life. i could have easily been killed had circumstances been a bit different!
  • minivanfoolminivanfool Member Posts: 6
    Does any1 know if the towing package that comes with the van has the wiring for an Electronic Brake hook up as part of it? :confuse:
    I'd appreciate any feedback.

    Thanks!.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    The standard 3-zone manual climate control does not have a replaceable cabin air filter. I wish it did as the air in my 05 is a bit stale, especialyl the heat setting. One too many farts maybe? Anyway, the cabin air filter comes with the 3-zone automatic climate control. Mine's a lease, so I dont' care as much as you probably do.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    The 3.8L with tow package has a 3800pound tow rating. That includes rear load leveling suspension and transmissino cooler. Adding a receiver alone keeps the rating down to 2000 pounds.

    I don't know if the OEM tow package includes wiring for elextric brakes. My guess is not.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    I could be wrong about this, but we have an 01 DGC EX with manual triple zone air/heat with a cabin filter. It would seem that the 05 T&C would have it. Did you check under the dash board on the passenger side? It has a long black cover to it.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    I arleady looked in my 05 T&C Touring. According to the Chrysler web site, it is included with the 3-zone automatic HVAC:

    Leather Interior Group $2,100
    Package includes >>
    Leather-Trimmed Bucket Seats-First and Second Rows Heated Front Seats
    Overhead Console w/Trip Computer & E-info center
    Air Conditioning with 3-Zone Automatic Temp Control
    Air Filtering
    Power 8-Way Driver and 6-Way Front Passenger Seats
    Vehicle Information Center
  • coach_tdcoach_td Member Posts: 4
    I am positive on my 2005 town and country touring that it does not have the in cabin air filter. There is no long black cover under the dash.

    By the way my T & C has 60000 miles on it and has performed outstanding. The only issues I had were with sway bar links and a wiring harness that broke. Both were fixed under warranty with no problems. The engine worried me from day one because it uses some oil between changes, but so far the engine has performed flawlessly. I just make sure to check the level between changes.

    Recently, on vacation we rented a T and C base model with the 3.3 Liter engine. The car had 4000 miles on it and felt like it wouldn't last 20000 miles. What a huge difference. I was so glad to get my touring back when we got home.

    What do you guys think about the 4.0 L engine with the 6 speed transmission? Hopefully, it will be a reliable set up. I may be looking at a Pacifica next.
  • bmw335xibmw335xi Member Posts: 11
    I hate the 2005 Town and country. I was in my fathers comeing back from a musical with almost a full tank of gas. It was dark on a twisty road and the engine just shut off. He pulled over on the side off the road and it was blided both ways.
    We did not know what happend. We got a ride from our friends who lived by there. Towed it back to the dealership and they said the gas gade got stuck. They also said other ones had the same problem and it was not recalled. He said he will never by a Chrysler minivan again. Now he's looking a Buick Enclave. ( I said look at the new Highlander)Has this ever happened to any one else?
  • hum3hum3 Member Posts: 19
    EVen after turning off the ignition, the cooling fan continues. I did some searches and read a little about a problem with the relay, but have no idea where it is or if it is a different problem altogether. I meanwhile pulled the fuse. Any thoughts?
  • gregmangregman Member Posts: 24
    My wife just had our 3rd set of front sway bar links installed on our 2005 lx. It has close to 70k miles, but come on, that's unreasonable. First set I installed at about 50k because dealer wanted $400 plus (as a favor). My cost $80 plus my time. They went bad immediately because the dealer left the sway bar mounts loose after they replaced the front pump on the tranny.
    Independent shop replaced the second pair at about 54k. Now they've gone out again. Alignment was checked with new tires at 45k. Dealer says 40k is normal replacement interval.
    My gm got it's first set at 225k, only because I hit a curb.
    Is this a weak link? :confuse:
  • veritasusaveritasusa Member Posts: 72
    I have taken the code info you supplied to two different dealers and the results have been just as I expected. Since you wouldn't give me a dealer name or date, the service managers at both dealers just told me that those codes didn't exist and, that if a code didn't show up in the on board computer, that code wasn't legitimate. I couldn't even get them to research the codes on their Chrysler computer network.

    Thanks for a little, but not enough.
  • spectramanspectraman Member Posts: 255
    Wow... this one has me stumped!

    Can anyone explain what the little 'ON/OFF' button does that's located immediately to the left hand side of the power sliding doors and power liftgate buttons in the overhead console?

    This button appears to have NO function in either my 2006 or my In-laws 2005 Grand Caravan. I thought that it would be a lockout on the power doors, like the lockout buttons that are usually found next to a vehicle's drivers power window block. But.... that isn't what this button appears to be for.

    The manuals in BOTH vehicles fail to mention this button, nor it's function.... although it's shown in two diagrams of the overhead console. WTH???? A search of the forums here came up empty, so I guess I'm the first person to wonder what this thing's for.

    Thanks in advance for any feedback any of you have.

    -SM
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Just tossing out ideas here, but how about a key fob lockout? Switch for the passenger airbag?

    I find it humorous that it would fail to be labeled (or documented in the owner manual), but then again, this is a Chrysler product.... :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • cbwilshacbwilsha Member Posts: 70
    My 2005 Chrysler T&C Manual (Page 31) says "To avoid unintentional operation of the power sliding door from the rear seats, press the button located in the overhead console to disable the switches for the rear seat passengers".

    C.B.
  • fiveohmanfiveohman Member Posts: 3
    Thanks C.B.!

    I didn't think to check to see if the rear B-pillar door buttons were disabled! I forgot about those! I'm sure that you've nailed it.

    Thanks again.

    -SM
  • neile457neile457 Member Posts: 65
    I hate the 2005 Town and country. I was in my fathers comeing back from a musical with almost a full tank of gas. It was dark on a twisty road and the engine just shut off. He pulled over on the side off the road and it was blided both ways.
    We did not know what happend. We got a ride from our friends who lived by there. Towed it back to the dealership and they said the gas gade got stuck. They also said other ones had the same problem and it was not recalled. He said he will never by a Chrysler minivan again. Now he's looking a Buick Enclave. ( I said look at the new Highlander)Has this ever happened to any one else?


    My wife had a 1994 Camry, and got stranded on the highway. Come to find out, she ran out of gas, even though the gas hand showed a half tank, it got stuck. That was a 2 yr old Camry with 25000 miles on it. I haven't bought a Toyota since, either (NOT).
  • leotaurleotaur Member Posts: 17
    We have a 2005 Grand Caravan SXT with 75000 km on it and we are very pleased with the vehicle. Disappointed with the dealer constant wanting to add on services not mentioned in the service book when we go for regular maintenance, and suspect a bit of scamming.
    Our automatic door locking which is supposed to occur at a certain speed ( about 17 mph or 25 kph) has stopped working so we have to remember to do it ourselves as we set off.
    Has anyone else had this problem? Where is the likely location of the failed component?

    DougW
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Just have to say how happy I am with my Chrysler dealership - Golling Dodge/Chrysler in Detroit (well north of Detroit at Telegraph and Square Lake Rd). I took my 2005 GC in for airbag sensor check and oil change. They said it'd be a few hours but they'd call me before lunch. Cool, no problem etc... Lunch came and went without a call, finally about 1;30 pm I get call apologizing for being late but when they change oil, they do 23 point inspection. They found that the front outter tie rods were going bad (Thank you state of Michigan!) and they saw my 3 year warranty was expiring in 3 days, so they replaced them while still under warranty!!!
  • 07tnc07tnc Member Posts: 2
    Yup, happened to me on my 92 toyota corolla and got me stranded on a freezing winter night in the middle of nowhere and cellphones were a luxury item then. I didnt and wont buy a :lemon: toyota :lemon: again, ever.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Another example of excellent Chrysler service. Auto experts will read your account and tell people how bad GC and T&C are for needing outer tie rods replaced on a 3 year old vehicle but ignore that the service was performed under warranty. ;)

    BTW, I have NOT yet received a letter from Toyota extending the warranty for the defective part that will break and either or both Sienna front doors will not remain open. :lemon:
  • leotaurleotaur Member Posts: 17
    We have a 2005 GC SXT, with 90,000 km on it, and we really like it. We are in Mexico for the winter. 2 days ago we noticed that the yellow engine shaped warning light came on, on the dash. The car is functioning normally, including temp guage, and we have checked the oil and water coolant levels, and they are fine. The gas cap is not loose, and we have put in a nearly full tank of gas since then. We had the vehicle oil changed and a new filter installed about a week ago at a local Goodyear dealer, and the place is well equipped and well run. The mgr says we need to go to the local Chrysler dealer to get a computer code read out, but has rechecked the filter installation, and says it is fine. The oil has clearly been changed and looks clean. The manual is rather vague about the meaning of this light, apparently because it is affected by many conditions, most of which
    are not harmful, such as a loose gas cap.
    Has anybody any ideas, or should we just get on with it and go to the local dealer and put our trust in them ?
    Thanks.....DougW
  • metersmeters Member Posts: 1
    Anyone know where the main fuse box is ? I found the one under the hood. I'm having trouble with the blower fan not working any thoughts ?

    Thanks
  • 1cor1311cor131 Member Posts: 1
    I am having the same trouble. I have 83000 miles on my van and the auto door lock system has stopped working. I got under the hood and fiddled with the fuses and it worked, but this is the third time it has messed up and what I did last time is not working this time. I am writing to find out if you have figured out what the problem is and if it was fuse problem or what? Sorry I don't have an answer, but I am desperate to fis our van and wanted to know if you have found any leads. Thanks.

    jimmy
  • leotaurleotaur Member Posts: 17
    My problem was that I had accidentally changed the menu on the electronic control centre above the windshield. Read the manual and reprogram the auto door lock function, which is one of the options you will see as you scroll through the menu for various functions, such as the time delay for the headlights to go off and so on.
  • leotaurleotaur Member Posts: 17
    Further to the above, we went in to the local Chrysler dealer, and they hooked up to the computer analyzer, and showed me the reading. There is a fault in the Emissions Control, so it goes in next week so they can sort it out. He said it is sometimes only a simple problem, but they need the van for the day We asked if we could keep driving, and he said it was fine and that the worst that could happen was a slight decrease in power, but there was no risk of any harm.
    Interesting, but as you might expect, the computer analyzer message is all in English rather than Spanish, adding to our reassurance. DougW
  • leotaurleotaur Member Posts: 17
    The light is confirmed by computer analysis to be due to a fault in the Emissions Control whatever...we have been told that this is not a requirement in Mexico, and that the simplest thing is to have it disconnected, and then we can get a new one installed when we get home. We are told that all that will happen, is a slight rise in fuel consumption, but it is not harmful to be without it.
    Any comments ? DougW
  • wog6269wog6269 Member Posts: 4
    i went to dealer2/29/08 for front end rattling. i have added care warranty on 05 gc . i was told the sway bar bushings were ng to replace cost $237 NOT COVERED. this seems expensive for $22 part. anyone had same problem and if so what was cost. service told me 2.5 hr job. thanks for replies.
  • cbwilshacbwilsha Member Posts: 70
    I recently had sway bar bushings and links replaced on my 2005 T&C. The work order shows 1.9 hours of labor. The total cost was $161.50 for labor and $95.90 for parts for a total of $257.40. I have an extended warranty with a company called Warranty Direct and they paid the full charge so it cost me nothing.

    C.B.
  • wog6269wog6269 Member Posts: 4
    cb what are links and didyou go through stealership? i am going to give chrysler an earfull when i get questionaire from them. iwill call stealershipalso. thanks for info.
  • cbwilshacbwilsha Member Posts: 70
    Yes, my Dealer did the work. I am very fortunate to have an outstanding Dealership and it is also where I bought the vehicle. The links are the actual metal rod that connects the sway bar to the body of the vehicle. The bushings are a rubber part between the connection at each end of the link. I'm not sure but I don't believe you can change bushings without also changing the link.

    C.B.
  • jkjmmatjkjmmat Member Posts: 4
    2005 T&C with 3.3L 40,000 miles. Noticed a week or so ago that the headlights flicker while going down the road. Does not occure while idling, only while driving. Not sure if this is accurate data but it seems to only happen after it's been driven for a while. They don't turn off all the way, just dim rapidly about... once per .5 seconds?? Could this be a voltage regulator problem? (therefore new alt?) Recent information, wife was driving yesterday with lights on, van died and of course scared the be-jees out of her because the power steering went out and she was in the middle of a turn (yikes!). Any clues? I had similar situation with a Dodge Ram with it stalling and turned out to be the battery.
  • dpullen4dpullen4 Member Posts: 12
    I have a 2005 Grand Caravan SXT that I started having issues with the passenger side sliding door. Opens with buttons just fine. When you push to close, it will close only until it's about 90% shut and stops before it latches, so you have to get out and shut it manually. Any typical causes?
  • firemedicmikefiremedicmike Member Posts: 1
    This has just happened to me with my 2005 town and country,,,the headlights and interior lights flicker(pulsate/strobe effect) while driving,,,at idle it continues,,,i tried the battery connection and it was tight and clean,,,,please let me know if you find any more info about this,,,and i will the same,,,,some other istes had same posting of similar problems and it seemed they chased a number of suspects i.e. alt,,battery,headlight switch,ect to no avail,,,,no tech bulletins issued either,,,,please let me know thanks again
  • jkjmmatjkjmmat Member Posts: 4
    Well, I took the battery out and had it tested. It was ok. But it was the stock battery so I figured it has had a good life, I bought a new one. Flickering went away! Now I have the steering shudder problem everyone's been writing about. I just replaced the power steering reservior and.... Still have the problem. I also bought a rebuilt rack, and I CAN'T GET THE DAMN THING OUT! I can get all the bolts out, theres only 3, but there is absolutely no way to get the two hoses off the top of the rack... I would like to know if anyone has figured out this jigsaw puzzel??
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